Bomann 594 bread maker does not crumple dough well

"Baker" with many years of experience. For almost 9 years I worked with my old Kenwood 250. I tried everything. I was pleased with everything. But everything has its time.
I bought a new Bomann 594 unit. I started to work according to old, proven recipes, but that was not the case. The dough began to swell and fall too much. But I somehow level this by changing the amount of yeast and sugar.
A question to colleagues with the same ovens or similar ones like Binaton - it seems that the machine does not crumple the dough well, both times. It is necessary to seize the moment after the second crush, throw out the shoulder blades and, most importantly, manually crush the dough. Otherwise, the bottom seems to be crumpled, and the top is a big bubble, which will then fall through. The old one energetically interfered when kneading the dough, and the new one barely twists, although it works fine during kneading. What do you say?

The colleagues kept a proud silence.

that's how they answered themselves - reducing the amount of yeast and manually squeezing the dough, you can use a silicone spatula to subtract it, I sometimes do this if I overdid it with yeast

So it is so. But I've already tried so many salt-yeast combinations and still nothing. It turns out, at best, just a flat brick with a straight lid. I changed flour, the same thing. In the old stove this was not, or rather it was, but very rarely. Kenwood did not heat the materials before mixing, but this one does. And just today I realized that I might need to close the top with a window with a rag when baking, I always did that, But I forgot. Kneads perfectly, nothing needs to be corrected and helped as it was before, but the hat does not come out. Annoying, not yesterday I got down to business and kaput on a new device.



Increased temperature inside the x / oven during dough proving.
Many bread bakers sin with this quality, the temperature inside the bucket during the proofing of the dough reaches 35-40 * C - which is very undesirable for the dough. This speeds up the process of raising the dough, and very high, sometimes to the very top of the bucket, but has a bad effect on the quality of the bread when baking or already ready.
What I read. And what to do? It looks like it is.

[the end]

1. - Remove the bucket from the oven and place it right in front of the batch.
1a. or add very chilled water so that it doesn't heat up.
1b. or reinforcing flour with ground semolina, or dry gluten / panifirin, or egg white, ascorbic acid on the tip of a knife - the last weakest reinforcement.
1c. or to buy initially very strong flour for HP with protein from 12 - the most expensive option.
2. Try to play with the consistency of a kolobok, the tighter the kolobok, the less it grows - less load on gluten. Of course, the amount of yeast must correspond to the consistency, that is, to reduce. Option limiting your options.
3. Explore different programs. Pay attention to those with the longest proofing. As a rule, the temperature of the proofing is lower there.

As a rule, you should be able to fully track all processes in the mode. When kneading the dough into the end should not exceed 30 degrees inside. This is a limit value, which means that the gluten is already weakened to the limit. Well, tracking the excellent consistency of the kolobok goes without saying, so that there is no smear under the shoulder blade by the end of the batch.
Then make sure that there is no maximum rise at all stages of fermentation. You must make sure that the problem is in the proofing.
But the option to lower the dough with handles at the problem point - no one cancels. If proofing is really solely to blame, then it is worth delving into the modes.If all modes are hot, then you will have to forcibly cool the dough or / and apply points 1 and 2.

[Lena]

add very chilled water so that it doesn't heat up.

Lena, you can add more ice https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...58608.0

How to check if the dough is ready for baking? Finished dough temperature

For 9 years with "Kenwood" I skated all, or almost all the undertakings and the process became purely utilitarian, for the purchased bread, which is in the historical homeland in Sochi, that in the new place in Klin is utter rubbish. The more surprising was the "tricks" of the new device. All variants of the ratio of yeast and salt, replacement of flour varieties did not give any result. The bread is delicious, baked, but ugly, there is no "hat". To knead before the last proofing is not a problem, especially. that I always pull out the shoulder blades, but it does not help. Can't the machine be reprogrammed?
I will try not to heat the material before the process.

and what about warming up before kneading on all programs? as a rule, this is only provided for the "whole grain" program

[looking at the root]

you carefully read about the bun?Wheat flour gingerbread man (master class) if your flour-liquid balance is disturbed, then at least exchange flour with a yeast-salt ratio, and you will have a dead tip. For if the stove does not bake a certain humidity, then it is necessary to change the flour-moisture = the ideal bun, and already for this ratio, select the amount of yeast. But that's not all. You also need to control the temperature of the batch: weakened gluten also breaks more quickly.
You have 9 years of experience and I may have misunderstood something, I don't want to offend. Are you just sure that you are not mistaken in the diagnosis, because of love for the past technique, you subconsciously do not want to accept a new one? I understand that it is very different from what you are accustomed to, and completely not in the best direction in your eyes. But either get used to it again and sort it out carefully and properly, looking at the root problems, or you have to get rid of.

The chances that you can "reprogram" a new typewriter tend to zero. Well, and certainly not in this topic. You need to look for electronics engineers, craftsmen, despite the fact that the manufacturer keeps technical solutions secret. Officially, of course, no one will do this.
Of course, you can try to ask the official Bohmann service center to arrange a flashing according to the program's own parameters, but I'm afraid they will twist the temple.
On the forum, try to write in the topic
Panasonic Bread Makers Problems and Breakdowns
there are more techies sitting there, they can tell you something. Although I very, very much doubt the success of this venture.
Although in my memory, someone was soldering something there on the diagram, changing the heat on the baked goods near another stove. That is, it is theoretically possible to understand the scheme. Look for techie assistants and throughout the forum. The question is extremely difficult.




ps. Can you still try to tame the new stove? “proven” recipes no longer exist on the new technology. There is a different mixing intensity, for example. I repeat that the liquid-flour-yeast balance needs to be adjusted to fit the new technique. And besides, control the temperature of the dough during kneading - that is, select the water temperature according to the intensity of the batch. You have standing, the task becomes more complicated.
And also the modes are different. Maybe there is some more gentle and delicate one that would suit you the most for every day? gather your will into a fist and try to defeat the machine.

I agree with everything. But, I am absolutely unhappy that as a result I got a headache instead of a stably working device, and for a lot of money. I have a good idea of ​​the texture and density of the kolobok and it comes out quite decent. We put the dough on the pies - everything is fine. But then there was kaput, today I tried two bookmarks, in the last quantity of yeast with sugar I reduced it by almost half. The result is the same, everything bakes, there is nothing raw, even in the failed area, but I don’t want to look at these derivatives. Before buying a car I looked at the reviews, positive and no one complained about the collapse of the roof.So I think this is my device's personal kaka, like a defective temperature sensor. Next time I'll try to pull the bucket out for most of the last proofing. But in any case, the inscription on the box is a lie. The automaton - this laid down the materials and, upon a signal, took out the finished product. Again, the 20 minute delay on all programs is annoying. In the process, which apparatus may not heat anything, the room is warm, but time drags on and it is impossible to move away from the apparatus.




and what about warming up before kneading on all programs? as a rule, this is only provided for the "whole grain" program

Yes, at all, why is not clear.

but you can not give it for examination? Perhaps it is really your copy that has a failure and will be fixed or replaced? Measure the temperature on the proofer. The values ​​are just interesting, or maybe there is generally under 50 and an obvious malfunction.
If you have a malfunction in the typewriter, then why would you live with it and get out?
However. As practice shows, a malfunction in the software of the typewriter can be even in individual programs. That is, look at the proofing on other programs. Maybe where there is a softer one.

You can certainly try to make the batch colder, but this is a finger to the sky. If fermentation temperatures are extremely high, then the dough will have time to heat up and fly up. It would be nice to know the values ​​exactly. This will give a more complete picture and will have something to say to the master.

I will try. But the service is 120 km away. Let's see what happens. When I pulled out the shoulder blades, I noticed, however, once that the dough was more than warm. It will not work, I will tinker with something. I really don't want to. Especially not tempting prospect for a long time to dance around the device during operation. Again, before that, everything was going too smoothly, which is suspicious. Let the breadbox get trashy. Not the biggest problem. Thanks for the advice, maybe not even all is lost.

measure with a thermometer. If there is scale, then you will have no choice but how to pull out the bucket in the proofer so that the dough does not spoil. And if within the limits of gluten keeping, then you will think how to cool it so that from the beginning to the end of the program there is enough.
It will be very difficult for you to search on the electrical circuit where there is something responsible for proofing.
I really hope that such a mess is not on all programs, but only a single failure.

I worked on three programs, everywhere with variations the same thing. It's pointless to poke around in the scheme, not those times. Everything is disposable and non-separable.



There are some positive aspects. Temperature conditions at different stages of programs are different, some overheat, some do not. And here's another question about the stability of the quality of yeast. I worked with Pakmaya for several years, everything is fine. There is no such Turkish yeast in the new place, I use Saf-Levure. But, the impression is that the last batch is such that the yeast is some kind of brutal, you need to radically change the dosage. Can this be?

Everything slowly returned to normal, and practically based on those recipes that were rolled out for a long time and did not work at first. What is it? For some reason, it seems that the "brains" of the machine fell into place and it stopped overheating the dough. Artificial Intelligence. But you just have to pull out the shoulder blades by hand and at the same time crush the dough, not the biggest problem. Thanks for your support and advice!

Next time I'll try to pull the bucket out for most of the last proofing.

Do you have a separate baking program? why pull out the bucket, turn off the stove, let it distance yourself under your vigilant control, then turn on the baking when you realize it's time. Compare the results.

Saf-levure requires mandatory pre-soaking, not the best choice for a bread machine. saf-levure is not instant, that is, it is more tender, it dies more easily, which is not the case, with a strong yeast aroma. Keep this in mind.
Theoretically, you'd better look at the yeast, on the label of which the manufacturer suggests to put it directly into the flour)))) or even pressed)))

Sorry, I got it wrong. Recently I have been working with SAF-Moment. "SAF-Levure" did not roll and I sometimes use it for kvass and home brew. I used to like the Turkish yeast "Pakmaya", but they are not available here. They were in a large bag and lasted for a long time. I once tried to put the "dough" on the old "Kenwood", knead it by hand, distance it a little and bake. But to my shame I do not remember the results of these experiments. It seems the bread came out spongy and not very tasty. I'll have to try it on the new device.