French starters

[Freken Bock]

Today I tried to bake Italian bread (Ann Thibeault), which was already obtained without problems.

Freken Bock, but can you make a photo report on Italian bread? And then I have not very good with such a liquid dough. Maybe you have already by trial and error came to some of your best practices that you can share? I would be very grateful to you! I think that I am not alone ...

Vika said that she was kneading dough into Italian. bread in a bread maker. I tried to knead in Kenwood with a hook, it turned out to be nonsense. Spied on Misha that she was kneading wide. with a spatula for creams, it turns out great, I bake the second month almost every day.

kneads wide. a spatula for creams, it turns out great,

That is, manually? How long should you knead in this case? I have a primitive mixer (whisk or hook only).

[kava]

kava, I made it both in a bread maker and with a hand mixer. It worked in both ways, but the mixer was clearly difficult. The flour until yesterday was Makfa. When I get ready to bake it, I will definitely photograph the stages of mixing.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock, thank you in advance! I will wait.

That is, manually? How long should you knead in this case? I have a primitive mixer (whisk or hook only).

I knead the dough in KM Kenwood, a great machine.

Good evening everyone, so I decided to join your company of French starters. But unfortunately my sourdough kicks in and is not given to my hands. She did everything according to the recipe. Vicki studied all your correspondence. And the result is zero. Today is the third day that I have been working with her. After the first 24 hours, the sourdough bubbled great and I, proud of myself, decided that I could do everything, and she punished me.When I fed her with wheat flour, after 12 hours she did not even think to move, in some places there were bubbles on the surface. It stands in my oven with a light bulb and a thermometer on. The temperature regime is exactly 30 degrees. But I decided not to give up, and exactly 12 hours later I properly measured the required amount of sourdough, (if I may say so), but I already added 2 grade flour and half and half. and put it in the oven, it is worth keeping silent like a partisan. But I decided I wouldn't give up either. Exactly 12 hours later, I repeated everything, only instead of 2 grade flour I gave wheat wallpaper and a / c also equally (that is, 50 grams each) and into the oven. More than three hours have passed, but I don't see any movement. The smell - according to my concepts, no, no rotten grass, no milk, no apples, but not disgusting either.
What do you think to do, Start over, or play around with this. And so I want to bake white bread with sourdough, as I see your breads, saliva gushes with a fountain (although between us girls, I am not a fan of white bread) I would not refuse a piece. But it’s not destiny. Maybe she's overheated. Or, on the contrary, not warmed up?

Nina, why don't you try a grape one? Raised twice, no problem. The leaven is excellent!

[himichka, the fact of the matter is that I wanted French for white bread, I have an eternal one, I bake rye on it. very good sourdough, and as for the grape, because there are wild yeast on the grapes, and here everything is against yeast in any form.]

himichka,
the fact of the matter is that I wanted French for white bread, I have an eternal one, I bake rye on it. very good sourdough, and as for the grape, because there are wild yeast on the grapes, and here everything is against yeast in any form.

Let me disagree with you. Any sourdough contains yeast, which gets into it well ... at least with flour.

[himichka]

himichka,
I do not deny the presence of yeast bacteria, in the same French sourdough, but it's not for nothing that people strive to ensure that lactic acid bacteria prevail in the sourdough, hence the storage temperature and the time and place of feeding

Basja, Of course, I'm not a great sourdough specialist .... but I grow French for the 2nd time.I think it’s about rye flour, and we should take boiled water. When you fed for the 2nd time, did you take premium flour? I take grade 1. I grow in m. In. with a mug of boiling water, and until the first time I play, I don’t feed it (it could be 36 hours)
🔗 This is the link that I get good at.

[ikko4ka]

ikko4ka, I have peeled rye flour, I took the flour boiled in a mixture with a bottle not boiled. After it was necessary to cut her in half and feed her for the first time, I fed her with premium flour (that is, it was 2 top dressing) I do not have 1st grade and in Moscow I can not find it anywhere. The next time I fed her 50/50 w / s and 2 grade flour, but the time, as in the instructions. well, etc., as I wrote above. I didn't feed it this morning, it's in the oven at 30 *, now I'm at work, I'll see what happens in the evening.
Thank you very much for your participation. Now I'll look at the link.

[Basja]

BasjaPerhaps the point is that something that is in the process of fermentation lures the bacteria of wild yeast from the air. When you had THIS with rye flour, it began fermentation, and as a result, you decided that the process had started, and when the wheat flour was added ...
Where does wild yeast come from in your oven? Well - take out your leaven, stir it, it would be good to get there with your hands, here we stir with a fork and remove it from the fork with your finger. We have a lot of these bacteria on our skin. Let it stand just in the kitchen for at least half an hour, and then in the oven. "Walk" it out of the oven, it is not so cold in the kitchen, it will not freeze.

Basja, Any of our starter cultures contains yeast. But they are wild from the air from grapes or from hops + useful animals bacteria. And we are all in unison against yeast cultured on synthetic nutrient media

I read an article about being at home unknown what animals can we grow in sourdough

Under those conditions and acidity that arise when fermenting flour, nothing very bad will grow. And the fact that "not very" will die in the baking process. If the Slavic peoples have not yet died out, then there is nothing terrible in leavens. After all, our distant and not so ancestors ate mainly sourdough bread

So I hope so! Maybe we won't die ...

[Summer resident]

Summer resident
Viki
and everyone who is so closely involved in the process of growing sourdough THANK YOU !!!!!!
She took her little animal out of the oven, mixed it, let's see how it behaves further. I will inform you: "Reports from the fields on growing French sourdoughs"
True, the household is already looking at me with apprehension.

[Basja]

Basja
The main thing is patience! Since your "starting" flour is peeled, you may need to grow it for an extra day or two plus a couple of "blank" feedings (also not a fact). Be patient and everything will work out. And take your time with different grades of flour, okay? So it is more difficult to guess the feeding time, but "by eye" it is not yet possible. Good luck to you!

[Viki]

Viki... So I have to feed her with flour in / grade?, And then what intervals between feedings should I choose or wait, not feed until she gurgles?

feed strictly by the hour. She can stand without movement, and run like a doe - all the same, she will receive her prescribed feeding at the right time, and then let her think herself how to survive.
Just give her the opportunity to communicate with the world around her, so that wild (more precisely, your homemade) yeast can find her and fly into the jar.

[Viki]

Viki , I decided to grow a new starter culture, today is 1 day, now I looked in a bowl to check how things are, and it was covered with a dry crust on top. I don’t remember how it was with me last time ... but it seems that there was no such thing.

I don’t remember how it was with me last time ... but it seems that there was no such thing.

There was definitely no crust last time. Is the crust too thick and dry? Can't you collect it neatly? If not very dry, then you can stir it, preferably with your hands.She's still thick on the first day

The crust is mixed ... but the mass is not thick for some reason, like thick sour cream or like semolina porridge, I don’t understand something ... Vic, can I add flour? or not touch it?

Such:
Tanyusha, don't add anything. We are waiting for what will happen.

Yeah, sort of. Only blackening like chocolate, probably thermonuclear malt

I report, last night I fed the starter, as Vicki recommended, and this morning I did not feed it, since only 6 hours have passed since the last complement. And when I came home from work in the evening, my sourdough increased by a factor of 2, but the bubbles were small-small. I cut her in half and fed her again in the same proportions as recommended. The time was 19-25. After an hour, the leaven increased by 1 cm. I can't put up the photos, since we are in a constant mode of improving the computer (to be honest, I’m already tired of it).
Vicki, thank you very much for your help and support. I have a question, when can I use it in bread, or is it still worth feeding it a couple of times and only then baking?. I will go to bake pancakes with the remaining leaven.

[Basja]

Basja, let's calculate by day how much it is grown in your country. If three days have already passed, then feed her in the usual mode (110 + 110 + 110) and see what happens at 30 * C. If after 6 hours it has doubled, it is ready. It can be used and the rest can be put into storage mode. If not, feed again in the same proportions and wait.

Vic, I have a second day today and there feeding in 12 hours, and I get this action already at 1 o'clock in the morning. Do you think you can feed her earlier, huh? sleep hottsa ..... ustamshi a little

you can feed her earlier, eh? sleep hottsa ..... ustamshi a little

Well, if this is the case .... I think she will forgive you for an hour. One and a half? ..... Oh, I don’t know .... Come on, at the same time, you will equalize the time for tomorrow so that you don’t stand over it until nightfall. Feed, Tanya, and sleep. We'll figure it out tomorrow.

Thank you, I’ll hold out until 11 pm, so that I’m closer to the right time, and I’ll pass out, in the sense of going to sleep.
And the leaven is bubbling with might and main, the soul is straightforward.

[Viki]

Viki
I put my starter on August 28, so yesterday was already five full days. Yes, in 6 hours it doubled. I got it. Thank you so much What will happen (in the sense of bread) I will report.

Girls, keep your fists for me. Mini-bread plant at home. in a rye bread maker on rye sourdough, in the oven - white in French. The smells are breathtaking. I'll post the result tomorrow from work, because I can't be at home. (In the process of improving the computer. And so on endlessly .......)

So I took out my sourdough bread

I'll show you the cut tomorrow. is cooling down now.

[Basja]

Basja, class !!!
What a handsome man there are no words, only emotions!
In the ranks of the "starters" there has been an addition, and what an addition!

Vika, today is the 3rd day, so I fed the leaven in 12 hours, as it is written, and I wait for it to rise, in 6, 12 or 16 ... and after 2 hours it rose more than 2 times and fell off. I fed her again, then again ... well, I think she will eat me soon. In general, now I had a feeding again, 1:10, maybe it will calm down a little.

Tanya take care of yourself! What kind of monster have you raised? Urgently transfer to storage mode, that is, increase the proportions when feeding, otherwise the hostess will begin to bite.

[Viki]

Viki, only thanks to your sensitive guidance and direction me on the true path, Zest for the adoption of breads and a detailed description of what and how, but since I am in a hurry, I have not read something, missed something, so I still have something for strive, namely perfection.
I baked pancakes from the remainder of the leaven, and put two jars of leaven (accumulative version) of 20x20x20 each. They grew up a bit and I put them in the refrigerator in the door (by the thermometer +11). And now the question arose: when to feed them, when will they double or when will I gather to bake again? After all, while reading everything is clear, but how it comes down to it, a lot of questions immediately arise.

[Suslya]

Suslya

with a new little animal, you and a return to the slender ranks of the starters. Yeah, it's not a weak animal you turned out to be.

Basja

well done, baked excellent bread! Welcome to our ranks

And now the question arose: when to feed them, when will they double or when will I gather to bake again? After all, while reading everything is clear, but how it comes down to it, a lot of questions immediately arise.

there is such a moment)) Sometimes I seem to have studied everything and you know, and then some question enters into a stupor.
I now have the starter in storage mode too. At the same time, all processes slow down, but nevertheless, the basic principles of feeding are not canceled. In storage mode, I feed my starter culture at about the moment when it reaches its maximum growth and begins to fall off. If it is difficult to catch this moment, then you can focus on a 2-fold increase. Small errors in one direction or another will not play a fatal role. Before feeding, let the sourdough warm up at room temperature. And after feeding I keep it for some time in the kitchen, and only then - for storage.
Success

[Zest]

Zest, Viki,
Thank you very much.
Girls, it was you who prompted me to such heroism with white bread, I have been baking rye with sourdough for a long time, and now I will be white. Thank you for accepting me into your friendly ranks. It is very pleasant to communicate. For any question, or a cry for help, bakers immediately come to the rescue. Well, very ....... nice, straight to tears. I love and kiss everyone
I realized about feeding, though I'm at work now, now until the evening.

[Basja]

Basja

than we can))

[Basja]

Girls, hello everyone!
Everything goes not "according to the standard" with my leavens. He doesn't want to eat premium wheat flour in any way! Only if you add a little bran or rye or whole grain, then it rises well. Here's the question: will it be a French sourdough if you add a little bran, or does something else grow there?
Basja, bread is just a feast for the eyes !!! Where can you learn this?
Thank you!!!

[Angelinka]

Angelinka, under the strict guidance of Vika and Izuminka, I made the leaven and baked this bread, to be honest, I myself can’t believe that I could do it. As for the leaven, Vika is MASTER in this case with a capital letter, follow her instructions. and everything will be OK. I, too, at first, when my sourdough on white flour did not grow, I began to feed it 50/50 with wheat and rye, Vika told me that there was no need for experiments. And I began to do everything as it is written in her instructions and plus her recommendations in the process of growing sourdough. I wish you success, I think everything will work out. Gods do not burn pots!

[Angelinka]

Everything goes not "according to the standard" with my leavens. He doesn't want to eat premium wheat flour in any way! Only if you add a little bran or rye or whole grain, then it rises well.

Angelinka all this is just "according to the standard". We feed wheat flour so that it is not necessary to feed it four times a day. Her leaven eats well and remains well fed for a long time. But in bread you can already knead with bran, whole grain flour and other goodies. Our task is for the leaven to raise the bread. So if she does not raise herself so actively in a jar, it does not mean that something does not suit her. She eats longer on wheat flour and is fed longer, which means it is more convenient to store it.

Basja, Thanks for the kind words! It's so nice to look at your handsome little bread and think that I have something to do with him

[Viki]

Viki

exactly, you are our whole starter mother)) I will not even undertake to calculate how many of them have you raised at home? Do you remember the names of the kids yourself?

Girls bring you my bread, with a new leaven

just a little cracked
Here is a cut


I baked with premium flour, to be honest, I like grade 2 more, but now I don't have it.

Oh, how delicious it smells! The new sourdough did well!

[kavochka]

Thank you kavochka, but there were better breads ... I don't really like

Wort, it (in the sense of leaven) will get stronger and improve a little