French starters

[Zest]

Zest
Thanks for the tip on the videos !!!!!
Indeed: live and learn !!

[rms]

I also grew my leaven! Now I put the dough, then I will bake!
The most interesting occupation, I note!

rms
, many thanks for the links, I did everything as it says there. I learned a lot of useful things, especially about storage - in the refrigerator now - no, no!

[MariV]

MariV, Congratulations! Moreover, I can well imagine how much work has been invested to get such an active leaven!
Now you have such a scope for creativity ...
Here's what I got a challah based on the Lithuanian one from Lyudmila:

The recipe contains 200 gr. flour and 200 gr. water replaced by 400 gr. starter cultures:

Myakish is handsome, her husband said "hazy":

And the mold from the same test turned out like this:

And in the context:

And that's all French sourdough. She's so smart. (Though gluttonous .....)

After Roma's kefir starter cultures, it is already difficult to stop. My French sourdough will be ready tomorrow. I made 2, so that I can use one right away.
Was going to bake simple bread like Zest. Her creations are inspiring, but there are questions
- is yeast really not needed? The leaven is already strong, beautiful, bubbling.
- Did you knead the dough 2 times only for 4 minutes? Mixer? Manually?
And the composition of this product is 340 g of sourdough, 400 g of flour, 10 g of salt, 1-2 tablespoons of oil, 200 g of water. ?
Viki, was this challah baked in HP?
Can you link to this recipe?

Eeeeee, no! We have already lost the habit by hand! If in the kitchen. combine, then 2 times for 4 minutes. ok, but you can give a full batch to the HP, turn it off, let it wander around and when you need to turn on the batch again.
Simple bread - you wrote the composition for sure, but Lyudmila's challah is in the magazine on this page:

Thank you, Viki, I also plan to knead in HP to an elastic kolobok.
I have already tasted breads based on wheat and rye sourdough from Admin and I can say that baking in the oven differs significantly from KhP both in technology and in taste.
But I would like to see how the bread will behave on this leaven in KP. I specially made 2 leavens to expand the field for experiments.

I was kneading the dough with HP. Then it was steamed in the shape of an hour 3. Then the pastries - it seemed that the crust was hard. Well, while standing, resting under a towel. I could not resist, pinched it off - it was delicious. Still, without sugar, butter and eggs - only flour, salt and sourdough with water.

And that's all French sourdough. She's so smart. (Though gluttonous .....)

I write off all this on production costs. Here is my cat eats much more, and the benefit from it is only a moral and mental plan ... but I don’t stop feeding him because of this? On the contrary, I slip a bit tastier: -X And ​​the sourdough is the same belly that you need to groom, cherish and feed)) But at least she does not touch grubs, she is content with flour-water alone))

- is yeast really not needed? The leaven is already strong, beautiful, bubbling.
- Did you knead the dough 2 times only for 4 minutes? Mixer? Manually?
And the composition of this product is 340 g of sourdough, 400 g of flour, 10 g of salt, 1-2 tablespoons of oil, 200 g of water. ?

- I did everything strictly according to the recipe. I added 1 g of pressed yeast to French, and Simple did without them at all. The sourdough itself does a wonderful job. Although, I still can't believe my eyes when she raises even a heavy dough without the help of yeast. I recalculated the Admin Curd Gentle recipe today for sourdough. So she did not blink an eye, lifted the dough in 2 hours. The husband is now considering a piece of bread like he has never seen in his life,
and insists that it is insanely delicious

- I knead the dough in a bread maker on the Pizza mode in 2 stages.The first batch is about 12 minutes, then I leave it for 1 hour to rest, then another shorter batch to stir in the salt-butter-dough (depending on the recipe).

- I made simple bread according to this recipe.

At Raisin, it is shown in the video how they bake in the oven, but there are BATONS or a loaf without a shape.

That's right, the video shows the baking of hearth bread. They spread it in special molds from the vine to provide air access to the dough from all sides and facilitate the formation of the crust, and bake it on a hearth or in a cauldron with a lid. For this purpose, I adapted the vogue, I really missed the round bread after the bread machine.
And you can put it right away in a form suitable for baking in the oven, and bake bread in it.

MariV, did you bake in KhP? What is a form? At Raisin, it is shown in the video how they bake in the oven, but there are BATONS or a loaf without a shape. Do you have the simplest recipe?

I counted my recipe for 500 gr. flour, that is, sourdough added 360 gr., water 320 gr. salt 1.5 teaspoon. After kneading in KhP - the dough was smooth, very beautiful.
It was brewed in a cast iron skillet and a small round baking pan.
Well, to taste - real rustic bread, it's hard to come off!
Now I will try to bake it in HP, since the leaven remains!

Zest, MariV, thanks. Tomorrow I will take into account all your advice and bake in the oven and HP.
It's so strange, I haven't had any trouble with sourdoughs while growing, but I took "very wallpaper" rye flour (that is, I sowed coarse flour and ground these rather large particles in a coffee grinder), and I found wheat flour unbleached. Therefore, my starter culture is not as light as in the photo, but it grows so that the silicone lid is inflated. Will she be that strong in action? We'll see tomorrow.
We have mastered kefir, and we will also adapt to this one.
THANK YOU to all assistants.
Zest, thank you very much for the video! I read about the formation of such loaves and saw a photo, but I fully understood only when I saw your master class. And what is sprinkled with forms? Something yellow. Corn flour?
Do you have a wok for proving?

Yes, bread is obtained in two versions, or fermented milk, or nutty flavor, it all depends on the recipe, but there is only one sourdough.
It is the nutty one that is now parting with me, I'm waiting ...
But kneading in HP and in the combine differs approximately like baking in the oven and HP. BUT the bowl must also be washed after kneading.

Zest, thank you very much for the video! I read about the formation of such loaves and saw a photo, but I fully understood only when I saw your master class. And what is sprinkled with forms? Something yellow. Corn flour?
Do you have a wok for proving?

yes, there is nothing to thank especially for)) The video is not my master class, but the heights to which I strive, and the material that I use in my studies. Found this video while studying Ludmila's LiveJournal. Indeed, with his help she clearly imagined how to form a mass of dough into bread.

I can only dream of molds for proofing from a vine, I am very partial to them, and now I use deep round salad bowls for proofing. Immediately I line them (salad bowls) with baking paper, transfer the formed bread to it and leave it in the oven or microwave for proofing (I put a cup of boiling water there). After proving, I make cuts, sprinkle with some water and transfer the risen bread onto a hot wok on paper, cover it with the same hot lid and send it to the hot oven. I bake with the lid removed. So far it is more convenient and tastier for me.

The molds used in the video can be sprinkled with flour, the remnants of which you want to see on your bread, or with bran.

So my "Very White Bread" with a nutty flavor is ready:

It's so light, just weightless. And here's what is surprising - dough from 600 gr. flour is "hat" over a three-liter form!
And what's going on in the section is just beauty:

Still, leaven is great!

[Viki]

Viki

you have become a real French starter culture master. If this starter culture had not already lived with me, then after a photo of your creations, I would have taken up its cultivation without fail.

And now I'm just torn between recipes, and I want to try this too

Girls, I also want to clarify the process with kneading-proofing. Did I understand correctly: short kneading (for example, I have a 14-minute dumplings mode), 1 hour proofing, one more kneading (or kneading), proving again (there is some fixed time or here by eye, until it increases, for example , 2 times?) and the baking itself (about an hour).

Or should the number of proofers be higher? After all, the French sourdough is mainly focused on wheat bread, but for it the number of kneading and proofing is greater? Correct me, otherwise I'm confused

[kava]

kava, if we are talking about "Simple" sourdough bread, then we knead it on "dumplings" without salt and butter. Turn off for 30-60 minutes. Then turn on the "dumplings" and add salt and butter, let it knead until a smooth bun. We put it on the table. We shape and place for proofing for 2 hours (to keep it warm and humid).
For French bread with yeast, deboning is needed to produce yeast gadgets, but we have sourdough. Long-term proofing is important.
Bake on the hearth with steam. In general, this is all here: 🔗 and with pictures.

this was my "promiscuous" one. I really like the fact that rye flour is introduced into the dough not directly, but through the sourdough. Well, I don't like the smell of rye flour in bread. And in fermented form, it acquires a completely different aroma. Also, the bran goes into this bread. Well, what is not a direct road to a healthy life?

🔗 - here is the recipe for this bread.

[kava]

kava
Have you decided what recipe you want to bake? The stages of the execution of each recipe are detailed in Lyudmila. Then I just figure out how I can use the bread maker to the maximum in this process during kneading-proofing-boning. For different recipes - a slightly different procedure.

[Zest]

Zest, this is BREAD! What is it sprinkled with? Flax + sesame or not?
In general, we need to go to a healthy life, I'm after you!

[Viki]

Viki
Oh, I'm sorry, I left to try bread. Vkuuusny ... As I suspected, this is bread for my taste. I will definitely bake more and more, just add, perhaps, a little malt, it tastes more flavorful to me with it.
Above - Staroosat (aromatic dressing) from the Bakery House. In the composition, indeed, sesame and flax seeds.

This is such a crumb of this bread, fluffy and elastic



Now, when I take out the next bread from the oven, I remember the Admin. True, true ... If not for her persistent nudges, I would never have reached the oven and knew how much I was losing.
Admin, thank you very much from me and from my whole family!

[Viki]

Viki
Now, when I take out the next bread from the oven, I remember the Admin. True, true ... If not for her persistent nudges, I would never have reached the oven and knew how much I was losing.
Admin, thank you very much from me and from my whole family!

Well, I got a little bit of bread from the edge of the bread

Thank you for your feedback!

I am always glad when people get good, clean and correct bread, without any questionable mixtures and additives.

Good luck to you girls

[Admin]

Admin, thank you very much from me and from my whole family!

Oh, and I want to say thank you Admin! There is a piece of your labor in every piece of these wonderful breads! (Instead of any chemical additives)

[Admin]

Oh, and I want to say thank you Admin! There is a piece of your labor in every piece of these wonderful breads! (Instead of any chemical additives)

THANK YOU!
It's a pity there is no emoticon where tears of happiness drip

Good luck!

Here is my report.
Has grown 2 liquid French starter cultures.

I used one of them all at once in the "Simple" bread recipe.
2 mixes in HP, with an hour break, then the formation of round bread, proofing for 3 hours, baking.


The result was surprising. The smell was as if they got real peasant bread from a real Russian stove. The crust is thick, crispy, beige, slightly rubbery. (in sourdough 100 g of wholemeal rye flour).
Completely new sensations, and the taste ...

To all teachers and assistants THANKS. We will correct mistakes and move on. I would like a loaf, like Raisin.
Have a question -
when kneading some kind of a kolobok, it turned out, but after stopping the engine, the kolobok blurred. (so the bun should still be?)
The dough was thin, unusually stringy and sticky, so it formed a round bread, which had to be baked in a glass form. The second small blank was placed in the lid of the mold glasses, a cake 3.5 cm high was baked - it also turned out very interestingly.
The roof cracked even during the proofing, but this did not spoil the appearance.

[gorgo6a]

gorgo6a, super!
Congratulations!!! I was sure that this bread will not disappoint you!
And so boldly, with rye flour in sourdough! WELL DONE!!!!
And the dough for the mold turned out to be very beautiful, and for the hearth, you can subtract 50 g of water. (at least 70 g.).
I have a beautiful kolobok in this recipe by the end of the second batch, when gluten is already sufficiently developed and stretches with "threads".
We also ate "Simple" today. Here's what it was:

And inside:

Viki, thanks for your support. Here is such a loaf as in your photo and you want it !!
It never occurred to me to "turn off the water." I was sure that I needed to add wheat flour to the thick kolobok.
There is one more leaven, that is, there is room for activity.
And here's another link to yeast-free rye bread.
🔗

[gorgo6a]

How is it - one leaven is there? We take 5 gr. sourdough, add 200 gr. water and 200 gr. flour and tomorrow there is one more!
gorgo6a, good luck to you! And do not forget, please, write about your successes ...

Girls! Here, according to the main recipe based on traditional French sourdough, 500 gr. sourdough, 700 gr. flour, 14 g of salt, 450 ml. water - the crust should be firm, and the crumb - a rubbery consistency? About airiness - she did not spend the night here. About the taste - no complaints.

[gorgo6a]

How is it - one leaven is there? We take 5 gr. sourdough, add 200 gr. water and 200 gr. flour and tomorrow there is one more!
gorgo6a, good luck to you! And do not forget, please, write about your successes ...

Viki,
I read that you can make a new leaven only by rinsing the dishes it was in and adding water and flour. But somehow I couldn't believe it. Therefore, yesterday I just fed a little (50 g water and flour each), like Romina's kefir. I keep it on the windowsill, where it is cool.
And today, for a sample, I added 100 ml of this sourdough in kifle and put it on heating - the mass bubbles, creeps up, and the bubbles burst with a bang. This is such a strength
The pressed yeast is nevertheless added. The gingerbread man turned out to be beautiful, interspersed with rye bran. A subtle sourdough smell is present.
During the first rise, the dough increased in volume to the very top of the bucket, which had never been observed before.
During the kneading, the machine itself could not cope with such a volume, I had to help, and I saw the familiar elastic threads.
At work, the dough was normal, maybe a little more sticky.
But the finished products were distinguished not only by their usual airiness, but also by their extraordinary elasticity. The fact that yesterday in Simple Bread was somewhat rubbery, here gave a completely different effect - elasticity, or something. 28 pies flew away in an instant. In general, a Frenchwoman will ennoble any dough. My pampered home audience commented that it was "tastier than ever." The lover of eating at the computer liked the complete absence of crumbs.
And the bran is not visible at all.
The plans are to adapt baked goods to HP. Thanks to all TEACHERS !!

Girls! Here, according to the main recipe based on traditional French sourdough, 500 gr. sourdough, 700 gr. flour, 14 g of salt, 450 ml. water - should the crust be firm, and the crumb - rubbery? About airiness - she did not spend the night here. About the taste - no complaints.

In principle, it should be the same as "Simple", only the dosage is 1 kg. And there is only one technology. The crumb should not be rubber, well, maybe a little .... But the holes should be large. After two hours of proofing, there should be holes!

Try to knead without salt, let it ferment for an hour and knead with salt. Well, he is big, can he divide bread into two?

In principle, it should be the same as "Simple", only the dosage is 1 kg. And there is only one technology. The crumb should not be rubber, well, maybe a little .... But the holes should be large. After two hours of proofing, there should be holes!

Try to knead without salt, let it ferment for an hour and knead with salt. Well, he is big, can he divide bread into two?

There were a lot of holes! And, in general, everything is according to the example described by you. So that's how it should be! Thank you!
Here is mine in French sourdough after daily ripening in the refrigerator

[MariV]

MariV, please note that this recipe is for thick leavening !!! It ferments for three hours with one pounding in the middle of fermentation and leaves for 2.5 hours. "Simple" is much faster (for which I love).

Here is my report.
To all teachers and assistants THANKS. We will correct mistakes and move on. I would like a loaf, like Raisin.
Have a question -
when kneading some kind of a kolobok, it turned out, but after stopping the engine, the kolobok blurred. (so the bun should still be?)

Congratulations on a good start!

Regarding the loaf - I painted everything as if in spirit, did not hide anything.This is exactly how I did it))

When kneading in a bread maker, even with French sourdough, no one canceled the bun for me personally. This is how I make it to my favorite consistency - soft and clinging to the walls of the stove. After proofing, I transfer the bread to a VERY hot wok and oven (240-260 * C), cover it with a lid. It is under such conditions that the dough "swells", as it were, takes the shape of a loaf and does not have time to spread.

[Zest]

Zest, I am catching up with you on the "health track" (who does not know, we have such a track in Odessa, people run there in the morning, as they say "from a heart attack"). Here is my bread with bran, only molded, baked in my favorite glass:

Terribly delicious! Judging by the instructions for this bread, now we are not afraid of any radiation.

[Day 1.100g of whole rye flour (black rye). 120g water at room temperature. Stir and leave for 24 hours at room T. Day 2. Take half of the rye mixture, add 200g white wheat flour and 60g cold water (5C). stir and leave for 18 hours at room T. Day 3. Take 300g of the resulting mixture and add to it 300g of white wheat flour and 150g of cold water (5C). Knead a dense dough, leave to ferment for 12 hours at room T. Day 4. Take 200 g of the resulting sourdough, 200 g of white wheat flour, 110 g of cold water (5C). Knead, cover and leave to ferment for 8 hours at room T. Day 5. After this period, take 200 g of the resulting starter culture, add 200 g of flour and 110 g of cold water (5C), knead and leave for 24 hours in a REFRIGERATOR (6-8C). The traditional French sourdough can then be directly used in bread dough.An example of a French sourdough bread dough:500g sourdough700g white wheat flour450g water14g saltKnead, let it ferment for 3 hours with one stir in the middle of fermentation. Form the bread, proof it for 2.5 hours and bake. "]

Here, copied from Lyudmilin's blogs:
"Day 1.100g of whole rye flour (black rye). 120g water at room temperature. Stir and leave for 24 hours at room T.
Day 2. Take half of the rye mixture, add 200g white wheat flour and 60g cold water (5C). stir and leave for 18 hours at room T.
Day 3. Take 300g of the resulting mixture and add to it 300g of white wheat flour and 150g of cold water (5C). Knead a dense dough, leave to ferment for 12 hours at room T.
Day 4. Take 200 g of the resulting sourdough, 200 g of white wheat flour, 110 g of cold water (5C). Knead, cover and leave to ferment for 8 hours at room T.
Day 5. After this period, take 200 g of the resulting starter culture, add 200 g of flour and 110 g of cold water (5C), knead and leave for 24 hours in a REFRIGERATOR (6-8C). The traditional French sourdough can then be directly used in bread dough.
An example of a French sourdough bread dough:

500g sourdough
700g white wheat flour
450g water
14g salt

Knead, let it ferment for 3 hours with one stir in the middle of fermentation. Form the bread, proof it for 2.5 hours and bake. "
I did everything exactly, the only thing I counted for 500 gr. flour. So it turned out not a crust, but a crust - because of this, I cut it and put it in a PE bag in the refrigerator - it became better!
How to achieve a thin crust !?

[MariV]

How to achieve a thin crust !?

MariV, I do not have a definite answer to this question. I myself am still groping. But there are assumptions on this score. At the first baking, I was afraid to use a high temperature, it seemed that the bread would definitely burn out. Little by little I got bold and the temperature increased. And here's a regularity I noticed - the higher the temperature at which the bread was sent to the oven, the thinner the crust turned out.Here I will try again to send French at the maximum temperature to the oven, then I will tell you if this will affect the crust and in what way.

It contains neither oil nor sugar and only 1 gram. live yeast.
I started (or spread) a dough in the morning before work and left it unattended in the evening I'll come and check.
My question may be funny: but tell me, pliz, how to measure 1 g of yeast without scales. Should yeast cover the bottom completely in a teaspoon? or a little more? a little less?
The dumbest way is to divide the yeast pack into 11 parts, but ...
Thank you

The dumbest way is to divide the yeast pack into 11 parts, but ...
Thank you

There is an easier way: if you take a quarter in a pack of 11 grams (and you don’t mind them) - this is about 2.75 grams. stir in 30 or 60 gr. water and take one third of this liquid into the dough, while reducing the water in the recipe by 10 or 20 grams, respectively.

Viki, as always, is in a hurry to help. Thank you!
Going home to continue experimenting with leaven and arithmetic

[Umka]

Umka, I wish you success !!! And I'm waiting for the result.
And today I bought such a FOK as from Raisin. And she has already baked bread in it:

Cools down:

How beautifully the cuts were revealed:

I can't wait to cut it ...

[Viki]

Viki
under-under)) What kind of under? We have a WOK baking method here
the beauty turned out. The bread under the cover of the WOK rises into a beautiful loaf.
it was not in vain that I ran to the market today.

it was not in vain that I ran to the market today.

Exactly - not in vain!
The top crust is thinnest and crunches, I took off the lid in 15 minutes, and there was a real loaf!
And the crumb is the most delicate, some kind of real. And elastic, you can, as before the bread was checked (evil father-in-law, I saw in the movies), sit on top of it, and he should immediately take the shape back.
But there are still holes:

Now I will have WOK bread too!

And elastic, you can, as before the bread was checked (evil father-in-law, I saw in the movies), sit on top of it, and he should immediately take the shape back.

Ahha, he is just that)) I like to take a piece of bread, move the crust to the crust with your fingers, crushing the crumb, and then watch how it quickly takes its former shape Only now it did not occur to me to sit on top of a whole loaf Now this idea of ​​a fix will not give rest

But there are still holes

Let's assume that you have a true Frenchwoman, well, she can't live without holes) Do you add butter to Simple or do you do without it? I read from Lyudmila that the addition of oil has a very strong effect on the structure of the crumb, as if it evens out the pores under one comb, without separate particularly prominent pores. I add oil to Simple, maybe that's why I get a more uniform structure in it?

Viki, Zest and you can have a photo of the VOK in which you bake and from what it is.

[tanya1962]

tanya1962

I looked through the BergHoff products now, my cauldron is one-to-one, like this one 🔗, only the line here is CAST LINE, and I have Scala. Yeah, I compared the articulation numbers - the same. So the same.

[MariV]

MariV
Today I baked French bread, good, it's a day off. What to say?..
after I pulled it out of the oven, it crackled and crackled to itself for another 10 minutes, like wood in a fireplace. I was even scared of him a little - well, a living creature on the table is purely for you. I gently touched the crust with my finger - I feel that it is thin and crunchy, like frosty snow. Now it's getting cold.
I conclude that in order to achieve a thin and crispy crust, it is necessary to observe the correct baking technology - temperature regime and steam humidification. If necessary, I can describe in detail how I baked this particular bread:



I just cut it - indeed, the crust is very thin and crispy, the crumb is airy and full of holes, quite a bit "rubbery".

[MariV]

I add oil to Simple, maybe that's why I get a more uniform structure in it?

found the answer to my own question, I quote from LJ here, maybe someone else will come in handy:
"Each recipe has its own crumb pattern. It depends on the composition of the bread and on the method of kneading and molding the bread. The wetter the bread, the simpler in composition (fat, milk and sugar strongly affect porosity) and the more delicate it is touched during molding. , so it will be more porous.

For very large-porous bread, gluten is developed, not by kneading, but by pulling and folding the dough during fermentation. "

MariV

Incidentally, I came across information about manual kneading. This is a whole business, hard and painstaking. And it also has a very strong effect on the structure of the crumb and crust:
"If you knead bread and soft / semi-liquid dough with your hands at first, then do it in the French way, using a scraper. Then everything will work out. Here the video shows the process of kneading and kneading such dough with a scraper and hands, on the table WITHOUT FLOUR. table, pull and fold, rhythmically, repeating this movement many times.
🔗
This hand kneading, punch + pull + French fold, punch + pull + French fold, lasts 15-20 minutes. Every 8 strokes with a scraper scrub the table, scrubbing the dough to the ball.

In the video, Richard Bertinette shows how butter is kneaded with milk, eggs, sugar and butter. But, of course, a simple bread dough from flour with water, salt and yeast or sourdough is absolutely also kneaded. "

I add oil to Simple, maybe that's why I get a more uniform structure in it?

I also add oil .... Riddle?

A riddle?

soooo, girl, do not confuse me and do not drag me into the intricacies of your relationship with the leaven, I do not know anything
"The bread is obtained with a very even crumb pattern, fine-mesh porosity, deliciously tasty and aromatic" - this is about Simple. Well, I don’t have any pronounced holes in it and I don’t need to
It's like every housewife has different borscht, even though the products and the recipe are the same))