French starters

And here is Darnitsky from Lyudmila:

Started from 1 st. l. thick French sourdough, then everything is according to her recipe, only here are the baked goods in WOK. The first 10 - 15 minutes under the lid.

Umk

I baked bread, but in a x / oven and it turned out to be "rubber" inside and with a dense crust. The smell was impressive, but I think that we still need to work on the result. As they said in the "Heart of a Dog": "The best for you (in this case, for me) is ahead!"
And today I bought such a FOK as from Raisin.

And where, and for what money was this miracle purchased?

Quotes disappeared in my post.

The first paragraph was about how the bread turned out, and the second question to Viki where the wok was purchased.

[Umka]

Umka
Try to bake in the oven at a high temperature and always with steam. Otherwise, the desired crust cannot be achieved.

And so - congratulations on the beginning! It will still definitely turn out exactly the way it should!

If you don't mind, I can answer your second question while Vika is not on the air, I hope she will not be offended. I don’t see on your profile where you are from, but if from Odessa, then you can buy VOK in the ware shops on the New Market or on Sadovaya in the BergHoff brand store. It costs about 380-390 UAH.

... I don't see on your profile where you are from, but if from Odessa ...
[/ quote]

Thank you, Zest.
from Odessa. I didn't write it in my profile right away, and now when I made corrections and additions for some reason they are not saved. Sorry, off topic.

we keep trying new options.
I baked very white bread today, the second option (nutty). The combination of yeast dough with sourdough gives an amazing taste and aroma. Airy crumb and the finest crispy crust.
True, with the cuts, I slightly perverted

Darnitsky in the context:

For a while I left my leaven alone - on the loggia, it was +15, now I have returned, I revive the leaven, I hope to continue the experiments again - I really liked the bread!

Lord, have mercy, duck, after all, this is an ordinary cauldron - WOK, they caught up with fear, I think what a beast!

Zest, thanks a lot for the video! A great! When there was no bread machine, I also kneaded the dough in this way, only without a scraper - I don't remember who I looked at, it seems, from the Italians when they were making pizza dough.
My leaven is working, tomorrow I will start again with plain bread.

[MariV]

For a while I left my leaven alone - on the loggia, it was +15, now I have returned, I revive the leaven, I hope to continue the experiments again - I really liked the bread!

Carry on, MariV, continue Success to you! This bread is worth it. I think with horror how I will switch to another bread when my free days run out. Already with all my heart I got used to it. Found, finally, 100% YOURSELF to taste.

Another simple one! And the smell! And the taste! It will always be "gray" - simple country bread. Now it will cool down - I'll show you which one is inside.



Kneading me his HP, program "French", mode - dough. I left it for the night in KP, in the morning I wiggled it with a scraper on the table, then into molds, stood for another 1.5 hours, then into the oven.

[MariV]

MariV
:) Congratulations on continuing your experiments)
If you will allow me, a small remark - it is not worth leaving the dough in sourdough for so long, for a whole night it manages to peroxide and turn entirely into a full-fledged sourdough. Hence, the crumb is rougher and the crust is thicker, if the pictures correctly conveyed the real.
In general, it's a matter of taste)) The main thing is to like bread))

My today's Simple I still can't believe that there is not a single gram of yeast in it.

[MariV]

MariV
If I have free time, I continue to read Lyudmila's LJ with enthusiasm. There is just her answer regarding the "free" handling of recipes. I myself was burned on this several times, now I prefer to strictly adhere to the indicated proportions-time-temperatures. Copying from LJ:
"You know, in baking, the most difficult thing is not to bake bread, but to follow a recipe. It took me just a year and a half to respect all the details of the recipe and technology for creating dough and bread. When I stopped kicking and started following the recipes, the bread began to turn out without mistakes. "
"Re: Ndya
Thank you!
So I felt it. It is a very delicate matter, it is not taken impudently. Yeast habits especially interfere. It is said that the dough must be doubled in volume, so you need to sit and watch it. And no 3 times. And in yeast baking, all these flights of free creative thought are quite permissible and not so critical. ".
We have the same stoves with you, I just do it like this:
- I knead the dough without salt and fat for 15 minutes. at Pizza;
- I turn off the stove and keep the dough in a bucket for about an hour;
- add salt and oil and knead it on Pizza again for about 10-12 minutes;
- I dump the dough on a table covered with flour, mold the bread, transplant it into a mold covered with baking paper;
- I transfer the form to the microwave with a large cup of boiling water;
- proofing no more than 2 hours;
- I warm up the cauldron with the lid;
- I make cuts on the bread, put it in a hot wok, spray the wok and bread with a spray bottle, cover it with a lid;
- I send it to the oven at 250 * C for 5 minutes, then reduce it to 240 and keep it for another 10 minutes. under the lid;
- remove the lid and hold it until browning (about 10 minutes);
- I cool it on the grate.

Try to bake one bread like this and compare the results. Maybe I will like it better))

[MariV]

MariV
The Recipe for Simple Bread provides for a liquid sourdough (170 g of flour per 170 g of water), you can use a thick one, just recalculate so as to introduce 170 g of flour with the sourdough and take into account the fact that water will have to be added to the required 170 g (this is only , which is introduced with sourdough, then look at the recipe).

I just use a microwave or oven as a proofing cabinet. Most often, I put the mold with the dough into the oven with the light on (for warmth), and put a large cup of boiling water there (for heat and humidity). When the time comes to preheat the oven, I transplant the mold for this time in the microwave (just a closed space without drafts, I do not use any microwave mode).

The use or non-use of oil in this recipe is not critical. The last bread in the photo (with a spiral on top) - not only without butter, but, as it turned out later, without salt, I forgot. But this did not significantly affect the crumb.

Help is needed! Since Tuesday, she has been growing thick fr. starter culture according to Luda's recipe with LJ. Yesterday in the refrigerator she did not rise at all and I, after reading her answers to the sourdough recipe, took 100 g of sourdough, 200 g of water, beat it well with a mixer, fed 100 g of wheat flour, 100 g of rye flour and left it until morning. In 8 hours it doubled, then began to fall off, I mixed it well, it grew again. I took 170g of it for bread, but what to do with the rest, according to what scheme to feed it? I have about 300g of starter left. Thank you in advance.

[himichka]

himichka
And then there can be no unambiguous scheme. Everything will depend on how often you are going to bake, how and where to store, at what rate. and so on. Here it is necessary to find a common language with the leaven. I made myself small notes, memos on sourdough, got them, I can share.

An approximate scheme of behavior with a thick leaven is as follows: take from 20 to 100 g from your starter, 100 g of flour and 50 g of water, knead the bun and put it in a jar to ferment. When the sourdough has grown about 4 times, it is ready for use in baking, or you can leave it like that for a full day and then feed it again in the specified proportions.How much to take from the starter, 20 or 100g, determine "by eye", depending on how much sourdough you plan to use for the next baking, and how much time it has to ripen, and what acidity you want to get the sourdough. Here, in many respects, one must act by touch.

To feed the sourdough less often, for example, once every 2-3 days, it is salted (2 g of salt per 100 g of fresh flour in the dressing).

If you need a sourdough for baking, and more than 8 hours have passed since feeding, then the sourdough must be refreshed in the following proportion:
100 g sourdough, 70 g flour, 35 g water. After 4 hours, it will be ready for mixing into dough or dough.
Pay attention to the correct proportions of fresh flour to old flour in the refreshed sourdough. Fresh flour should be at least 1.5 times the amount of flour in the sourdough. For example, if the steep sourdough contains 50 g of flour and 25 g of water, then you need to feed at least 70-400 grams of fresh flour and add water to the tough dough. If you feed with less flour, then the crumb of the bread will acquire a mouse-gray color.

If you do not raise your hand to throw away excess sourdough, then store it in the refrigerator for 2-3 days and add to any other dough instead of dough, and in recipes for bezoparny dough just add a piece of cool sourdough. You can pour the liquid sourdough instead of the water in the recipe. This addition of starter cultures improves the quality of the products and their flavor.

Try different options, the behavior of the sourdough will tell you which pattern is best for you.

Thanks, Zest, for the tips and tricks for a novice baker. Baking bread is so exciting that I can't stop. I mastered MK-leaven a month ago, but I bake it only in a bread maker, my gas oven does not really get along with baking bread (or am I?). But the French ... Yesterday I played with her until 1 am. Professional interest ... we still need to measure its pH

Baking bread is so exciting that I can't stop.

and how I understand you in this! I never stop rejoicing at each new bread, like a miracle, like the sun after a long bad weather
Do not forget to write about your successes))

And here is today's "Simple". It has become my everyday lunch bread, it helps a lot when there is very little time. And the result has never disappointed.

Zest, after watching exactly your breads, I decided to start a sourdough)))) today I fed for the first time))) tomorrow we'll see what happens next)))

[kinski]

kinski
Everything will be fine Follow all the instructions exactly for each day, and your sourdough will grow and make beautiful breads too.
Good luck! Let's wait for good news

[Zest]

Zest, I try))) I'm diligent about observing the instructions))) I'll study everything first, and then I'll do it))) I've been on the forum for a year without registration))) I registered because I wanted to post the cake recipe, but then I refused this idea ... no one will deal with him ... work for half a day .. although I have never tried such cakes anywhere else .. he is our family one .. we have been baking for several decades))

Hello to all starters! I feed two dogs, a cat, fish, husband, children .... and two starters ... I measured the pH of a Frenchwoman today, with a rather sour taste it is only 5, which is not much. In fact, all breads from a bread machine have one thing: they have some kind of insipid, uninteresting taste (in my opinion). Here I bake bread with bran on MK-sourdough, the taste is even nothing, as for me. I remember my grandmother's huge bread from the oven, and the crust ... is a favorite food of distant childhood. Recently I found out that they baked them on homemade yeast (and there were no others), cooked on hops or waste from a home winery, that is, this is all that we are actively discussing on the forum. New is well forgotten old ...

[my stove]

Well, of course, all these natural starters are 100 years old for lunch! As long as there is yeast bread - so many kinds of leavens exist! Nothing new here.
It's just that everyone, like me, for example, discovers America for himself - well, at least in the form of his home-grown starter cultures and the way they are used in home baking.
Yesterday I finally became bolder and, in the ratio of 300 grams. starter culture and 450 gr. different types of flour, with creamy and rust. oils, with 2 large spoons of sour cream, 2 tbsp. spoons of sugar. sand baked another bread.



I will wait a little with the oven, I took the instructions for my stove yesterday and studied it carefully. I have a Kaiser, it has two recommended baking modes - convection and thermocirculation. Now, by testing, I will select the appropriate my stove mode for loaves.

[Viki]

Viki
Vic, and Vic)) Why did you send me to an Italian link today? I haven't had such bread yet It's all the same that a head of a hole cheese in a cut I tried so hard not to squeeze out air bubbles during molding that I only had bubbles and remained But there is a big plus in this bread - I have nothing to eat with asked, said that this is not just delicious bread, but crazy bread and completely self-sufficient food, which you don't even want to spoil. So they ate it, alone, even without meat The husband walked around the house with another chunk in his hands and tried to find out everything : "Have you ever seen me eat one bread?" It's good that at least she beat off the second piece and managed to leave a photo as a keepsake.
It really is completely unexpected in appearance and taste.It is still strange to realize that the composition is the same everywhere: flour-water-leaven, but they are similar only with a slight sourness

My leaven is a week old. During the night she rose three times for the first time. I think it can be grown by trial and error. The whole family is watching my experiments with interest. Now the bread was baked in the oven, since it was already too late, so in order not to wait for a long time, I put it on the usual mode, adding 0.5 hours to the dough. l. yeast. And the result - tore the roof. Let's try it in the morning.

Growing French! In the evening she fed her, she finally grew 4 times overnight. I made the following conclusion from my torment with her: exactly follow the flour-water proportions and beat well while kneading. I first whisk the sourdough with water with a blender for a few minutes, then stir in the flour. That is, it should be properly enriched with oxygen. My bread turned out to be completely different both in structure and in taste, although due to the late time it was baked for 3 hours 20 minutes according to the MariV recipe, but with the addition of 0.5 hours. l. yeast. There is no one to insert a photo now, the kettle itself is in this business. Good luck everyone!

[Zest]

Zest The bread is just SUPER !!!

They also infected me with French leaven. Now I'm growing ... I also want to make Italian bread. Tell me, where did you knead the dough for him - in a bread maker? After all, it is quite liquid ...

I went through the link - this is Italian bread, and there is dry yeast everywhere. Is your bread also with dry yeast?

[MariV]

Tell me, where did you knead the dough for him - in a bread maker? After all, it is quite liquid ...

I knead the dough in a bread maker, I plan to buy a kneader.
Yes, at the beginning of kneading, the dough is very liquid, flour is not captured from the corners, you have to help with a spatula, but by the end of kneading, with the development of gluten, the dough is seized into a soft ball.

MariV
In many recipes, which are presented on Ludmila's LJ, pressed or dry yeast, or yeast dough, or their combination with sourdough are used. Italian bread was made according to the third option (190 g of liquid sourdough + 1 tsp. Dry yeast).

In Darnitskoe, I fermented the semi-fermented with French sourdough, and at the final stage, added liquid yeast milk from 2 g of pressed yeast. In the same Bread with Bran, I ferment rye sourdough in French, and at the kneading stage I add 5 g of pressed yeast. Very white bread (nutty flavor) combines 5 g of pressed yeast with sourdough dough.
Completely without adding yeast, Simple white bread is made, maybe something else, but so far I have not encountered ...
Somewhere in LJ I met Lyudmila's answer to the question, why add yeast, if the sourdough already raises the dough wonderfully? The sense of the answer boiled down to the fact that yeast makes the process of ripening bread more predictable in time.

[ABOUT]

Another bread on a mixture of hop and French sourdough. Baking and kneading HP.
Dough made from a mixture of rye and wheat flour. There are a lot of seeds insideABOUTin and nuts. The roof, however, was blown off.

Hello everybody! I have a question: I bake bread in fr. sourdough, and so it gets a bumpy surface when proofing. Why did it happen? Honestly, I add 0.5 hours. l. yeast for 200 g of sourdough and about 450 g of flour. I bake in a bread maker.

Hello everybody! I have a question: I bake bread in fr. sourdough, and so it gets a bumpy surface when proofing. Why did it happen? Honestly, I add 0.5 hours. l. yeast for 200 g of sourdough and about 450 g of flour. I bake in a bread maker.

Try without dry yeast.

Afraid! Yesterday I baked it again, the bread turned out great, the products are the same. It's a pity, I can't upload photos, they are very large in size, but I don't know how to reduce them.

[himichka]

himichka
I can assume that you are using leaven of varying maturity in your bread. Just notice what kind of great bread comes out and it is at this stage that you use it in bread.

Dear Zest!
You have already tried out the recipe for Italian bread recipe
🔗
it looked delicious, I think it tasted too. Answer me, please, do you give the liquid in the same volume as in the recipe, or reduce it? For some reason, all my LJ recipes are too liquid for me, I remove the water by about 30%, and still have to add flour. What is this, our flour is so wet? Or is the reason for something else?

And, in general, if it's not a secret, what flour do you use, Kulindorovskaya or others? I now use the Dnipropetrovsk Khutorok. Sourdough drags from her ...

I'll probably answer ...
I use Kulindorovskaya flour and reduce the water, our flour is very wet. In Italian I take only 300-310 gr. water.
As far as I know, Zest does not reduce water, but uses MacFoo.

Thank you very much, Vika!
I reduced the water from 360 ml to 290, and increased the flour to 450 g instead of 420, and also reduced the yeast to 0.5 tsp. instead of 1.0. At the moment, my bread is being baked, I will report on the result later. I bake (alas) now in C / P. The oven is occupied by someone else. I am worried about baking - there is not enough voltage in the network for it, the crust comes out too light, and I like toasted.
Has anyone ever baked bread in the microwave?

Dear Odessa bakers!
If anyone is interested in: who bakes on Kulindorovskaya or other Ukrainian flour, then according to the recipes from Luda from LJ you need to take only 60% of the water from the amount indicated in the recipes, otherwise the dough turns out to be too liquid. Luda herself writes that: "According to GOST, this means 300g of liquid, but flour takes 500g of liquid from me."
I hope that my information is useful to someone.
Her recipes are very attractive, I want to try a lot. But I kept observing the parameters that she gave and did not take into account that their flour was much drier than ours, so I had to add a lot of flour all the time.

[LightOdessa]

LightOdessa
Thank you very much for your advice! Otherwise, I also made a couple of recipes, and indeed the dough turned out to be very liquid. Now I will try to reduce the liquid according to your advice.

In addition, I made a discovery for myself: it turns out that 100 ml of liquid is far from equal to 100 g of it. In 100 ml of liquid somewhere 110-112 is placed. To be honest, this was news to me. Now I understand why my leaven is so nimble and voracious: I kept feeding it underfed all the time ... For 10 g of flour ...

In addition, I made a discovery for myself: it turns out that 100 ml of liquid is far from equal to 100 g of it. In 100 ml of liquid somewhere 110-112 is placed. To be honest, this was news to me.Now I understand why my sourdough is so nimble and voracious: I kept feeding it underfed all the time ... For 10 g of flour ...

Everything is correct! I already somewhere on the forum gave my experiment on the analysis of measurements of water in ml. and grams.

Water measurement is dependent on air temperature, density, sea level and other conditions.

Even pouring water into a measuring container up to a certain mark, you can not add, pour a few grams (even 10 grams), since we measure the water purely "by eye", which may not coincide with the mark for some millimeters of distance, but it's all the same gives a certain inaccuracy in water measurements.

Why I am not a supporter of measuring liquid in a recipe to the gram and milliliter.

Any product can be taken with a measuring spoon "under the knife", but each time weighing it on the scales we will receive a different amount in grams.
The same coarse and fine salt weigh differently - the discrepancy is 1-1.5 grams.

I am a supporter of "flour into liquid" and the rules of the kolobok!
And never depend on exact quantities.

Admin, thank you very much! What would we do without you ...

I would also like to share my joy: in order not to throw away the surplus of the leaven, it's a pity, after all, a living being, I found a completely wonderful page where there are several recipes for using it.
Here is her address: 🔗leaven

Go to the bottom of the page, there are absolutely amazing pancakes with pure sourdough, I have already made them, delicious with anything. She did it like cribs, all over a frying pan, then wrapped an original snack in them - that's something! At this rate, the leaven is not enough!

finally there was an opportunity to get to their new toys - a combine harvester and a mill. With their help, it was already possible to implement the recipe that I had been looking at for a long time - Tom Leonard's French country bread. Spotted him here

I don’t know if this can be considered whole grain flour, but I have no other choice.

I made the kneading in a combine, a rather unusual event I must say ... without a painfully familiar kolobok, but with an unfamiliar animal wrapping around the kneading hook. It is still necessary to get along with this and find a common language. Out of habit, it seems, I added flour, all the dough seemed liquid to me.

But in the end, nevertheless, the most solid bread came out, with a thick spirit, aroma and taste. Not self-indulgence, but really self-sufficient food for the peasants who are worn out in the field. Despite the attractive and unusual taste for me, it is impossible to eat much - very satisfying, almost heavy, very good at satisfying hunger. I will definitely continue to customize the recipe for myself and bake more.

In the fall, strictly following the advice of Ludmila from LJ, I grew a French sourdough - thick.
Then, in the process, studying other materials on sourdoughs, I found that they grow on hops, grapes, add honey for health.
I made rye sourdough with hops.
Why not take a chance? And she added 5 pcs to her French and rye hops. dry black Tajik raisins - did not get worse, but got better. The raisins lay there for 10 days, then they caught it and threw it away. Then, a week later, I put 1 teaspoon of honey - also no deterioration. At the same time, I use starter cultures almost daily - bread, pancakes, dough for pasties, manti and even dumplings. Of course, after each use I feed them.
By consistency - it is thick, French, with wheat flour and water. Yesterday I added raisins again.
The dough for bread raises perfectly - both rye and wheat. Photo - above.
Baking is creativity, if everyone strictly followed the established rules once and for all, we would still eat unleavened cakes. Boring !!!
And pancakes with sourdough! It is something...

After the festive meals I wanted a simple rye, not sweet, without malt, bread.
I took out my rye sourdough - I made it with hops, then I added honey and raisins, it is difficult to identify it now. She put 200 grams, added the same amount of wheat flour, art.a spoonful of buckwheat, a teaspoon of starch, 2 tablespoons of sour cream, 1.5 teaspoons of salt, olive. butter, splashed some water to make the snail in the kneading process, 20 minutes - on dumplings, then without a spatula with a timer 5.5 hours - on rye.
It warms my soul that there are no agrams, panifarins, dry yeast. Taste with sourness.
I took the photo still hot, because, I think, is not worth it until it cools completely.

Happy New Year everyone! All Health, Happiness, Joy and Love!
About bread: Thanks to Vika for helping Odessa residents acquire all sorts of additional ingredients for good bread. I've been baking sourdough bread since I grew my first sourdough, and since that moment I have not returned to yeast. I make absolutely everything with sourdough - pancakes, dumplings, dumplings, pancakes and any bread. Moreover, I make the simplest bread - flour, water, salt, leaven. No sugar, no butter, (I just grease the dough with butter so as not to smear the molds). So bread is nowhere more natural. And the taste is very suitable, and the smell. I bake in the oven (for technical reasons), knead in a bread maker. The result is always pleasing. Since the acquisition of C / P - and this is the beginning of September, I am happy to communicate with the test. And from the moment of making the leaven, I bake bread exclusively on it. I want to thank all those who spoke about the leaven so easily and in illustrations, and once again wish everyone a Happy New Year!