Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

well yes. The topic on the phillips pasta machine, of course, is the place where you immediately rush to look for an explanation on semolina
No really. Since there is no separate forum topic, and the question arose here, I will impudently transfer an interesting link from there about Italian flour.
And what, questions about flour are always relevant.
So, super article, how to understand a complex Italomuke
🔗

Now I always add semolina and a bit of white malt to white bread. The result suits me super. Of course, the starter culture is not useful, but there is no dancing with tambourines either. Cool crumb comes out without unnecessary gestures.

[Sveta]

Sveta, and what does white malt give?
I looked at him today, did not know to order or not



Today I baked cold fermentation bread and every time I remember you when I bake this, and thank you for the science

I will brazenly transfer an interesting link from there about Italian flour.

And you will do the right thing. This is where it comes in handy.
(I don’t bake whites at all now. The children have left.
And my husband and I love only gray and black bread)
But knowledge will not be superfluous

[fffuntic]

and what does white malt give?

Aroma !!! Real bread.

fffuntic, Lena, but does it make sense to add white malt to wheat ZZ bread or not?

I am ok with yeast and am satisfied with the xn-option behind my back. That is, it turns out so not the end of the world. Of course, it doesn't reach the awesome daily fermentation, but I'm not capable of such feats. But there is an average option. Starter cultures are concentrates of these most useful active superfood MKBs, which, well, there is no other way to get such quantities. But if you shove them into the dough in the most ordinary mode in parallel with yeast, only as a gorgeous improver, then we kill all the rabbits. There will be a rich taste and processing of flour better than without sourdough.

So, the super article on how to understand a complex Italomuke

If only for general erudition, because in our realities, Italian flour is not very good. :-)

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Flax, and what kind of leaven will you take to grow?
(I would take up rye again, but I have few eaters for starter business now ... One, two ... And I've missed it)
And throwing away the leaven is not mine. I won't.)

White malt.

What is white malt and what is it for?
The chief technologist of Pudoff Group of Companies Lyudmila Kaskova answers:
- Malt is a sprouted, dried and milled grain of cereals. Most often from rye and barley, less often from other cereals.
There are two types of rye malt: unfermented - light (white) and fermented - red (dark brown).
In home baked goods, red (fermented) malt is used more often than white malt. Due to the high content of aromatic, coloring and flavoring substances, fermented malt significantly improves the taste and aroma of rye, rye-wheat, wheat bread. Thanks to him, rye bread acquires that amazing aroma for which we love it so much.
White malt is not as popular as it should be.
During germination, the grain "wakes up" and various biochemical processes begin to take place in it, and as a result, a large amount of useful substances is formed. And when white malt is added to the dough, most of these nutrients are transferred to bread.
In the germinating grain, the activation and formation of enzymes occurs - to the greatest extent, α-amylase. The following enzymes are also active in malt: proteolytic, hemicellulases (β-gluconases, pentosanase).
White malt is used in bakery for saccharification of brews in the preparation of custard varieties of bread (Riga, Borodinsky and others), improvement of the quality of wheat bread from flour with a reduced sugar-forming and gas-forming ability, for saccharification of infusions when preparing liquid yeast, sourdoughs.
Unfermented malt can also be used in homemade bread as a natural improver.
The dough with the addition of white malt ferments faster, the gas-forming ability and elasticity of the dough increase. The crumb becomes looser and the finished bread is larger in volume than bread without malt. The crust of the bread becomes more ruddy when baked. In addition, the taste and aroma of this bread is much richer and more expressive. And such bread keeps freshness longer.
Photo: bread with white malt and bread without additives. Even without delving into complex processes, you can see the difference.
IMG_0449
The manufacturer's recommended dosage of malt is 2-5% of the total flour. But it is not recommended to add a lot of white malt to the dough. Again, due to enzymes (mainly α-amylase). The flour already contains a certain amount of enzymes, and since it is unknown (it can be increased or decreased), it is better not to risk it. α-amylase, acting on flour starch, forms dextrins. And because of their large amount, bread crumbs can turn out to be sticky. Therefore, 10-15 g of white malt per 500 g of flour with a single-phase method of making bread (this is when all at once, without sourdough and dough) is quite enough. If you bake long-fermented bread (with sourdough, sourdough), then you can add more malt - 20-25 g. The acidity that accumulates in the dough during prolonged fermentation will not allow the enzymes to work actively, and the crumb will not stick

I'll go to the cart and add it

And throwing away the leaven is not mine. I won't.)

I never throw it away, if I grow from scratch, then I just start with one spoonful of flour, nothing more, just add fresh flour and water or whey and then in 3-5 days no more than a glass of sourdough grows in total.
In my opinion, the fastest and already quite strong leaven is obtained on c / w flour + sour milk, practically in 24-30 hours a finished product is obtained.

[Sveta]

Sveta, well, you have questions, comrade Svetlana. Actually, it is better for Luda to mess with such subtleties. I have a very superficial idea. I can tell a lie. As I understand it about malt

Malt can be active or inactive. Inactive - fermented, this is a smack and just an average yummy for yeast. But, by the way, is it possible for them to replace the addition of molasses and maltose, if the flour is poor in its own sugars? Not really. Like it's extra tasty in and of itself.
But the active one, which is diastatic, is literally a bomb that makes the gluten flexible, more extensible, and it is all so active that the weak gluten is lightly thrown away. That is, the malt tolerates flour with strong gluten and so that the fermentation is not hot. When warm, malt begins to show aggression. At the same time, malt allows for a long low-temperature fermentation, because it contains a lot of tasty treats for yeast and bacteria, but which they cannot quickly gobble up, you have to work in time. Therefore, the malt is put in panettone and daily bread so that food will last for a long time.
Malt is like enriching the lean flour with tasty substances. If the fermentation is short-lived, and the flour is normal for the tenderness of gluten, rich in all sorts of substances, then malt is not needed. But as Lyuda writes, now try to find one. Flour contains little sugar-maltose, therefore it requires the addition of this maltose for flavor. It is safer to give it in the form of maltose syrup. Malt is maltose + enzymes, which weaken flour, stretch gluten and are relevant for strong flour, weak malt is contraindicated. That is, in some cases, it is safer to do just maltose without malt with the same effect.
This malt also acts differently when it is grain, flour or syrup. An interesting thing. It can enrich the taste with it, but the mechanism is complex and clearly does not apply to low flour.
In fact, it says much better about it here.

LCA. Diastatic maltose syrup in baked goods.

malt properties

🔗** allejo.liv *** ejournal.c ** om / 16568.html

safer and aromas will also be achieved with maltose, see. The aroma is not given by malt, but by fed yeast with bacteria. They can be fed in different ways

Smells of yeast and yeast dough.
ht *** tp *** s: //ma***riana-a***ga.li**vejou***rnal.com/2632***21.html

[Lena]

I'll go to the cart and add it

Light, where is such a basket?



Lena, so she herself gave the article under the spoiler ... I read it. Interesting! Sveta, thank you. Interested.
So much dug, well done girls, thanks!

about malt

Thank you, Len.

Well pudoff, they are interested in sales and they have information focusing on their interests. Malt is not shoved anywhere. This is a very active thing. As a rule, it is most important for straightening flour for sourdough cultures. If you want it like a super concentrated CB. Whole elite grain that has accumulated destructive power and delicious substances. Sour, rancid, destroys, feeds .. it's all malt.
Malt can kill flour. What you need is a strong, elastic gluten and flour poor in substances.

Well, everything turns out to be so complicated

Light, and where is such a basket

On the Ozone,

[Galina]

Galina, yeah, I've been looking here for a long time, where you have given this recipe and the method of kneading dense dough with handles, but with convenience
Need a recipe for 100% Whole Grain Bread without an Oven Bread Maker
but there is one problem, now I have ignored white bread. Interested exclusively closer to rye. It is not fully ripe yet, but it is urgent to ripen. However, doing the same on a rye central lock has been in my head for a long time.

Well, everything turns out to be so complicated

but maltose syrup is safe and only useful.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Lena, what can you say about this recipe? Is it worth baking this?

Wheat bread with white malt (vabalas)

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Lenus, here I am personally to you with a question.
Making dough from Lina. This.

Dough patties with oatmeal and rye flour (Linadoc)

It is pie. Kneading in HP.
I baked a lot of pies on it. But they also bake bread on it. The topic talks about it.
I also like the bread on it. I was bragging right here.

Travola SW232 (omelet maker) # 1603

One problem - on the second day, the dough still smells normal. By the evening - already the smell of alcohol. But after two nights .... ugh ... baked Bread strongly (!) Smells of yeast.
What is the reason? After all, the people say that they bake on the second and third day.
Yeast always take Lux.
I think that we should take a smaller one. How many?
It is very important for me to keep it in the refrigerator and bake small bars for myself.

well, but maltose syrup is safe and only useful

Thank you very much, I will know. Then I'll buy it

It is very important for me to keep it in the refrigerator and bake small bars for myself.

Ritul, but freeze in portions, once, do you want to?

freeze in portions, once, do you want?

Svetik, you mean dough or bread?

Dough

Galina, yeah, I've been looking here for a long time, where this recipe is given and the method of kneading dense dough with handles with convenience

Need a recipe for 100% Whole Grain Bread without an Oven Bread Maker

I read about white malt (I only use red for rye bread), it turns out that my c / s bread almost repeats the technology of white malt, only their grain is first germinated, then crushed, and in mine it is already crushed, but for bread this is not basically, the chemical processes are the same.
Recently, I also began to add "germ flakes" from Auchan to the dough, judging by the yellow color, they are obtained from durum wheat and there are already 40% protein. Recommend! :-)
Now it became more interesting for me not to buy ready-made flour, but to make it myself, mixing premium flour with bran and embryonic flakes. And the cost of flour is acceptable, and I'm sure of the composition.

Dough

Svetul, I froze other types of dough many times. And for some reason this is not ...
It is so multi-part, you have to try!
I don't really like freezing Bread itself. Ice cream, of course, when I bake a loaf, and I can't eat it alone. But I won't say it to please me. Not tasty to me, for the life of me.
Therefore, I saw for myself the need to bake the klhotny breads. They are so crunchy and delicious. And after complete cooling, just super!
It is convenient for me when I am alone.
Now I will try to freeze the dough.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, probably not quite right to check out the recipe.

HE is so too authoritative. I don't understand why he makes a dough like that. What is the point of kneading a traditional dough and keeping it on the table for 6-8 hours, when it should be ready for guests in three hours, even on a from. with normal acidity. The night dough option is more familiar. But you will have to check the amount of yeast, monitor the dough so that it does not overstay.
Malt for flour 1 grade? grandmother said in two. There is a small chance that it will not be lucky and 1c will be very weak, then there will be a negative option, and if it is usual, then the main thing is not to overdo it with quantity. It is necessary to see the limiting proportions for 1 grade. Now, if there was molasses, it would only be tastier and there would be no doubt.

But the main thing that confuses me. There is not a drop of baking in this bread. The whole emphasis is on excellent fermentation and the accumulation of precisely bread flavor. If you make a mistake, it will not taste good. And I trust such things only from recipes according to GOST. To be straight by the clock and verified and verified. If it comes to that, I would look at the simpler option. With baking. Would be reinsured just in case for the taste.
I admit that it can be very tasty. Or maybe not. There is not enough fermentation, you will mix it like a thread wrong. you get an empty taste.
It is aerobatics to make empty wheat bread delicious.

Ritus, if everything suits you in the first baking, then changing the amount of yeast is not an option. And then it smells like yeast and smells like alcohol: your refrigerator is warm, the dough continues to ferment. As long as there is air, they normally live like this, then in anaerobic conditions they let you in alcohol, die and stink.
Therefore, a bad option is to crush the dough in the refrigerator.
A good option can be twofold: kneading two portions of dough at the same time. One on the normal amount of yeast - for today, and the second to reduce the yeast and let it ferment in the refrigerator, you will crush it there from time to time.
If not hunting, you can have one portion, but then you need to flatten it and quickly cool it even in the freezer. Slow down the yeast sharply. And then completely put the dough at a temperature of 4 degrees in the coldest place.
And about freezing? I never did that, I just cooled it down. I don’t know if the yeast in the dough runs out after freezing.
Make an experiment and share your impressions

When freezing both bread and dough, try to ensure maximum tightness. If it is cling film, twist it in many, many layers. It will be better preserved. Air is evil.

[Lena]

Lena,
I read a little about molasses. It is malt-flavored, that is, it is suitable for rye or a mix (wheat + rye), but is it not suitable for pure wheat?
Well, at the same time I learned that there is light (you can eat it like a sweet) and dark (it is in bread)

I was also looking for this very molasses for wheat. Normal molasses, slightly sweet. It improves the dough, but does not add sweets. You can put it in purely fresh wheat dough and there is no sweetness.
Luda just has rice maltose syrup there. I did not find it by that name. But I found this "Maltose (malt sugar syrup)", Composition: Rice 84%, malt 3%, water 13%.

🔗

although because of the dancing to find this maltose, it is easier to buy malt.
And dark maltose has a different color and flavor, it is for dark bread.

And dark maltose has a different color and flavor, it is for dark bread.

I don't make gingerbread for her, together with honey or even instead of it.

[fffuntic]

But I found this "Maltose (malt sugar syrup)", Composition: Rice 84%, malt 3%, water 13%.

Good composition.

I bought brown sugar syrup, but it was sweet, I added it to bread. Then he ended up on the Amazon. I didn't buy it anymore, I always put "golden syrup" in white wheat, and in any wheat one. It seems to be sugar molasses.I don't put sugar at all.

It is malt-flavored, that is, it is suitable for rye or a mix (wheat + rye), but is it not suitable for pure wheat?

Probably the most famous recipe for wheat bread with molasses is Reinhart's "Anadama". He also speaks very vaguely about the lighter molasses, which must be sought and found ... But I cannot find. I'm not looking for it anymore, to be honest.

Chuchelka has it. Maybe "try" her, what kind of molasses she takes and where ...

Anadama - Famous New England Bread (Peter Reinhart) (oven) (Scarecrow)

fffuntic, Lena, thank you for about malt and maltose from our bakers-experts from LJ. You are our main keeper of the most valuable rattles

Chuchelka has it. Maybe her "try", what kind of molasses she takes and where

Looked she was using molasses.
An interesting recipe to bake. I don't have a "friendship" with cornmeal yet, but this bread should be tasty and unusual.



Here are the words of Chuchelka:
... I used maltose. The darker, the more pronounced and rich taste it will give

I still found sweet treacle, but there is glucose and others. Worse rice.
high sugar molasses GMX
The amount of dry matter-78%, reducing-70%, glucose-40-43%, maltose -54-56%, maldextrins, higher sugars 4-8%.

🔗

Firebird Feather for HP Fanatics

Brought to show "Westphalian Passion"
Now I cut it to a salad of Celery and apple.
Dinner turned out to be a bomb!)))

Rita, make a recipe. You already have a photo.

[Ritus]

yeah, now you can see, but in a month you won't find it. Make a recipe for easy use. Ritus, take care of us

Rita and the name too



Let's chant: Rita! Rita! Recipe! In the studio!

Girls, dear, there is a photo!)
But what is he mine? When Sveta bakes the same. Luda is baking! But only with an apple and c / z rye flour ...
And here is the recipe

Bread only on rye flour (Westphalian type) (Author Kosh) (Elena Bo)

Modification ... just ... well
Well, a little already looks like ... of course. Now I read it! (((

[mamusi]

Yeast always take Lux.
I think that we should take a smaller one. How many?

mamusi, Rita, you have to pick up. I'll tell you about the yeast that I use. You can ask us for them in the fresh baked goods section of the supermarket. My husband takes 100 grams for me, I have enough for a month and a half ... I store it in the refrigerator, as Lenochka taught fffuntic

So that's what I mean. For a loaf of bread from the sun, instead of 8 grams of pressed, 5.5 is enough for me. If I take more, then everything turns out badly.

instead of 8 grams of pressed, 5.5 is enough. If I take more, everything turns out badly.

Here!
(We must take less!)
I will try.

[Ritochka]

Uh, I got to the computer ... No Ritochka, this is your recipe, you have wheat flour there, plus your liquid proportions, your own proofing regimen, I have already barely found the recipe to take a closer look. So come on the recipe and the name is already "Westphalian Passion" Recipe in studio on HP! We are waiting
And now I bake with sour whey. Now, after washing the honey extractor, 2 liters of honey water was formed and I add it to the whey and ferment it together, but I still put dry yeast on no more than 1 tsp. on a standard rye.

[option]

Okay, clean, so as not to get lost option, I will do. But you need to shoot a bun during the kneading process.
To rebalance and double-check everything. Although I baked it in such it was the composition already three times. Fixed, like the composition ...

[Ritochka]

In-oh-from, pralna, Ritochka, otherwise look later, it is already somewhere 3 pages ago or four

it is already somewhere 3 pages ago or four

Natasha will come and bring to the first page.
Will be in place. For now

Well, at least that's the case And then it's true there are so many articles and works, you need to save in order to use

[Galina]

And now I'm also experimenting.

Since I rarely bake now, I have a completely positive attitude to yeast, the task was only to get a tasty improver. I looked in the direction of Sekov's bakenzyme, but I need it difficult and, most importantly, very expensive to order.I didn't leave plans to buy it, but then I was carried away by a new toy.
Here is the blog

🔗 and YouTube from him

Strictly speaking, since I got there, a more serious approach is needed. I have to buy ingredients to test for acidity and ph, but it's harder than even ordering Sekov. What I get is not clear. There is only a nose and a tongue, but it is already being prepared in the KMKZ cartoon in 24 hours (or something completely different, we will take care of it and see)
Bribed that you can take for wheat directly from the refrigerator, and for rye, refreshment is not so difficult. You can perfectly stick into a bread maker for any recipe as an improver. You can "forget" in the refrigerator for a month, although it is better to refresh it once a week.

shl. It - "KMKZ" should smell of "tasty sour plums", which I have not smelled for a hundred years

And also with a light hand Galina, Crown, I learned about the "terrible phytic acid".

When I carefully looked at the information, then, in general, they may be exaggerating, or maybe not. Well, who will do scientific research properly now? However, this article is not devoid of meaning,

🔗
and
🔗

I also believe that we eat differently from our ancestors. The ancestors ate long-fermented rye bread and stuff like that. Maybe it's a horror story, the body can handle it perfectly, but maybe not. Our descendants will know for sure
here is the rationale that the horror story
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=522512.0
But there the girl does business on diets, although she has a scientific degree, but she hardly watched the control group for years. And if the ingredient is heavy for the body, then since such tops have gone, on occasion when it is not stressful, it makes sense to soak the cereals, it will not decrease. For every fireman. Berezheniy ... you know.
And it makes sense to fill the central lock with sour milk. Our ancestors, and even in the USSR, did not eat active CH every day.

And fast modes are bad from this position too, you need long and sour milk to stick into the composition - truncated is better than nothing.

Vooot found out and shared with you. Always be healthy.

Lena, thanks for the information. Thank you for finding and sharing. But how much should one be afraid of?
Lena, I read, read ...
And it seemed to me that it was easier to hang yourself ...
This phytic acid cannot be avoided by a normal person. It is unrealistic if so ..

About bread with c / s flour. I baked with Rye sourdough a few years ago. Then she stopped (there were reasons).
Tasty and healthy - no one argues. But what about fermentation for 8 hours? Where does this time come from. Here I take the leaven from the refrigerator, put it in the HP, add flour, whey and everything else. I make a batch. I leave it to come .. Usually 1.5 hours ... And you can already bake.

If, bypassing the HP, manually do, for example, then knead it with a part of the flour, leave it, but again not for 6-8 hours, but an hour and a half, then add flour-kneading and again and rassstoyka. Again, an hour and a half ...
Well, even if you leave the first proofing for the whole night ... so what? Then we add a new portion of flour ... and then again ... SHE is the terrible FITINIC acid.

Here's how to be? Okay, we (I) are already living out a century, as they say. And my granddaughter and daughter began to feed with porridge. Already natural. I bought whole wheat groats.



I tell her to soak longer. Well, you need to cook (stew) for more than 2.5 hours. Does she do soaking or not? Eventually.

And even in nuts, seeds, in "everything vegetable". Mom dear!
Girls soak walnuts ??? !!!!

[Ritus]

Ritus, we will not hide from everything.

Here, even without this acid, there are enough horror stories and environmental friendliness. I'm not going to bother specifically and get scared. I believe that the body's margin of safety is also good, otherwise everyone would go with rickets, because we all eat bread with cereals.
But, for example, if buckwheat is planned, I will soak it overnight. Business for 5 minutes. That is, I remembered the information, when it's easy, I will apply it. And so, of course, I'll just eat the nuts. The funniest thing, though, is that I love soaked nuts. They become so tender. But in order to soak, you need to do everything in advance, I do not have such patience in relation to tasty
And now I will shove whey into any bread with the scientific knowledge of my righteousness And in the plans of a new animal to stick -
KMKZ, the truth is, there is more interest: the really correct leaven is such a miracle, or the game is not worth the candle.

we have all heard praises about long-term fermentation before, but it is not always and not always important for everyone to lock themselves in on bread around the clock. Therefore, sour milk and just machine modes are enough. Yes, not perfect. But all life is compromise. We'll do with half fermentation))))

But about fermentation for 8 hoursin
wait, not all at once. I am just beginning to comprehend the rye world, then I would like to understand the normal conduct of the test and do this KMKZ, and not an unprecedented sour beast
Then I'll see how the normal process can be extended in time and space. We all know how to arrange a daily bath for wheat. And on rye it is necessary to study the materials of ancestors. Even Lyuda has a solid short GOST, it seems like Sergei has something insanely long rye.
But this, the theory, I'll find. But in practice, I will not pretend to be a baker from the Middle Ages.

we can't hide from everything

Lenochka, and I'm not particularly striving!
I'm just surprised at people who have time to hide from everything. Still good in moderation.
Otherwise, you can spend your whole life on "horror stories" and "reinsurance".

Knowing, of course, is good, but when it turns into a phobia, it becomes sad.
All good mood and positive emotions.

I thought with something ridiculous, about phobias ...
... that is why the men live less, that during the years of service they will get drunk with acids and constant porridge ...

[fffuntic]

about "terrible phytic acid"

This is very good! I have been concerned with phytic acid for a long time. And again, returning to my beloved GOSTs. There, rye bread was always made with sourdough and prolonged fermentation - to accumulate ICD in order to neutralize this acid. So it won't work quickly with rye bread if you make it useful.

With CZ bread I make a soaker (lobe) from all CZ flour according to the recipe and whey. For 3 hours ... Then I do the batch. I don’t know if there’s a lot that will be neutralized, but I hope. And the bread tastes MUCH better. This technique was taken from Reinhart.

fffuntic, Lena, if possible, share your work on KMKZ, did you manage not to portray a baker from the Middle Ages

[Sveta]

Sveta, and more specifically, on the example of my "Westphalian", what when and how to soak?
Let's do a debriefing * and I'll repeat it and tell everyone. Straight today or tomorrow, eh?
Here I have 80 g of wheat and 320 g of wheat and what to do next?



I also want to accumulate ICD ...

Lenusik, this is interesting, of course, I read the topic of the Accomplishment myself, but our distant ancestors lived up to 40 years old and died one might think healthy, and many of us are already well over 40 here, so all this, personally, I take note of, but I try not load, so as not to turn your life into a principle. I think pleasure and joy are no less important component of our life than the fight against fit. You know, at the age of 30, I became interested in healthy eating, since then I hardly fry, I do not add salt, I don’t eat sugar ... And after 40 I was diagnosed with diabetes, without heredity and excess weight, with a healthy diet, etc. So that's it. very individual and as they say, it is better to be healthy and rich than poor and sick. Health and prosperity to all of us, how I love you all, my good