Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

Rye on rye sourdough

[Thumbelina]

The handsome man turned out Thumbelina, is it pure rye?

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, pure rye, 100g peeled and 300g whole grain

Good crumb turned out. Still, with sourdough, the lifting force in rye bread is greater.

I still have a young leaven, I think it will be better with time.

I have a photo of my inimitable masterpiece based on sourdough, I have already shown it here, baked in another stove, I had the first stove Mystery, it was good, albeit cheap, but now they are no longer there. And I no longer indulge in leaven
So it really will be even better when the leaven matures.

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, class, is it custard judging by the shine?

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, class!Thumbelina, very good bread, but only I eat pure rye, and sometimes I have to take into account the opinion of others

[Olga]

Olga, I brewed only malt, I already don't remember the exact recipe, I then baked it by eye with sourdough. I almost always did well and I thought it would always be that way. Then the mystery broke down and I bought a Redmond, and suffered with any baked goods until I bought Panasik. But Panasik is still tender for rye. Rye bread loves a high temperature at the beginning of baking, of course, Mystery did not give the necessary 220-240 degrees at the beginning, but apparently it heated up faster, and managed to grab the outer crust, like a frame, so that the bread would not collapse in the future

why didn't it work?

She herself was surprised why it did not work out. I often baked in Redmond, I really like it. Both whole grain and French. Tall bread, fluffy, thin crust, subtle apple aroma. At first, the bun is a little dry, and by the middle of the batch that's what you need. In panasik on whole grain it is dense, dampish. We must try again on a different mode

I can't get French bread - on the first program the bread is one and a half times higher. I understand that the flour is weak?

Now she has baked French bread with French flour.

It turned out fine. But now there are bubbles on top, and on the sides there are rushes. Can this be fixed?

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, something went wrong, judging by the influx, the dough rose even higher than the bar turned out and stuck to the sides of the bucket, from which I think the conclusion is that the dough is liquid, sticky ... What recipe did you use?
Here is a photo of two of my breads in French mode, the one that was baked higher tonight according to the recipe from the instructions, the smaller one is yesterday, the recipe is higher

Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4) # 5803

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, I had it once. I did not report the suspicion of moisture and yeast then. It went up super, and when I took out the crust on top it was, as it were, separated from the bread itself



Natasha, I'll take a piece, it's very appetizing. And then mine is not yet baked.

Mandraik Lyudmila, a recipe from a book for a bread maker (I have a European one). There the recipe is for only 300 g of flour, 220 g of water, I put 11 g of pressed yeast, 1 tbsp. l. sugar and 1 tsp. salt.
I always put less water, because our flour is weak. And this time, counting on flour from France, I put it according to the recipe.
I didn't track the process, put it with a delayed start and went to work. I came and got bread 5 minutes earlier.

As for the influxes - I read in Sergey's livejournal (I have no right to give links) - these are the influx of dough, that is, it happened during kneading. There is also a photo. Sergei is talking about Borodino bread in a bread maker, the dough there is more liquid. Therefore, I really have a lot of liquid.Maybe bubbles from above because of this?

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, a lot of yeast. In the recipe, only 3/4 spoon of dry yeast, pressed 6 grams is enough, well, 8 is the maximum, especially since the rise is long in French.

[Tatyana100]

Tatyana100, well, look, the dough has been kneaded and if it had been left unfinished on the edges, it would have been flour. With yeast, I think the same, in principle, everything is fine (definitely not a little), bread is of a normal height for 300g.
And for some reason, the dough turned out to be watery, there was a rise, it rose well, then a crush, it sank, but it stuck to the edges, the edges apparently stuck - sticky, sticky, most likely there is a lot of liquid and perhaps the oil is not enough.
And in a European there seems to be no French regime, there is Italian. I’m not a European, she has a French recipe for 400g of flour + 1 tbsp. dry milk, 280 ml of water and 15 g of butter, yeast 1 tsp ..
What is still not clear to me: it turns out that in the intermediate rises, the dough rose more than in the last rise before baking. What does that mean: the last climb is too short in time? Then it turns out it's in the program.In general, it's strange ...
Let's wait, maybe Lena will tell you, she is our guru according to technology



Although, I have a thought about yeast here. If there are too many dozhzha, then they just ate at the beginning and raised the dough higher in the first rises, and then, there is not enough flour, only 300 g, and they already had less food, but in the last rise they did not raise the dough to its previous height, with "hunger "But at the same time, the dough turned out to be watery anyway, otherwise it would have come off the walls when kneading.

I tried to put less yeast - it rises badly, I have to turn it off several times during standing for 7.5 minutes (my stove does not remember anymore). You and I are different yeast. Although now they were the freshest.
In the European there are no dumplings, everything else is there - I have 33 programs.

We must try again with tracking the kolobok - there is still some flour left for one time.

With yeast - I love airy bread. I'm afraid to put less yeast. Then I'll try it on my Ukrainian flour.

You and I are different yeast

I think not so much that it would be completely different, good yeast and good yeast in Africa. Especially since most of our Russian girls bake Turkish pacmaya.

We must try again with tracking the kolobok

A very correct thought. Unfortunately, not everyone and not always have time for this, but whenever possible, it is better to track new recipes. Sometimes I get up at night to see how things are going, "paranoia" however

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, I also have a European, Pacmaya yeast. According to the instructions for the European, there is less yeast, but this is because the yeast is different, I put it like we do. Ukrainian can be even weaker, have not tried it. Somewhere I came across that people throw ascorbic acid into Ukrainian flour to give strength. I don't remember the details

I inserted a photo into the gallery)
First bread:

Borodinsky:

Bun according to GOST:

Italian:

Dumplings:

Multi-grain:

Everything turns out very tasty! I get real pleasure) Now I incite my friends to HP)

[asena]

asena, here is a report

[asena]

asena,
I was interested in multi-grain. From the instructions?

[asena]

asena, beauty, so much and everything is great!

[300 g flour water 220 g, I put 11 g of pressed yeast, 1 tbsp sugar and 1 tsp salt.]

a recipe from a book for a bread maker (I have a European one). There's a recipe for everything
300 g flour
water 220 g,
I put 11 g of pressed yeast,
1 tbsp sugar and
1 tsp salt.
I always put less water, because our flour is weak. And this time, counting on flour from France, I put it according to the recipe.

11 grams of pressed yeast is a lot for 300 grams of flour. I would put my Polish live yeast -7g on that amount of flour.

I tried to put less yeast - it rises badly, I have to turn it off several times during standing for 7.5 minutes (my stove does not remember anymore). You and I are different yeast. Although now they were the freshest.

Live droezhzhi capricious for HP. You need to learn how to use them correctly. If you bake without delay, then live yeast needs to be activated so that they have time to get stronger and work correctly on time, look this way... Everything fits perfectly into the framework of the automatic program.
What language do you have instructions in? My HP is also European, but the French recipes there are completely different

I didn't track the process, put it with a delayed start and went to work. I came, got bread 5 minutes earlier.

If the oven is on a delayed start with live yeast, then you first need to track and derive the formula for the conditions (delay time, amount of live yeast, food temperature, method of laying live yeast).

Regarding the influx - I read it in Sergey's livejournal (I have no right to give links) - these are the influx of dough, i.e. it happened during kneading. There is also a photo. Sergey is talking about Borodino bread in a bread machine, the dough there is more liquid. Therefore, I really have a lot of liquid. Maybe bubbles on top because of this?

Sergei described kneading Borodino bread from rye flour, and you baked bread from wheat... Wheat bread does not give such rushes when kneading, as wheat flour has good gluten and it perfectly collects the dough into a bun without smearing on the walls.
The sagging happened during the proofing, I think because of the large amount of yeast: during the first proofing, the dough rose so high, and after the kneading and during the last proofing, the yeast did not hold out. Therefore, in a delayed bread maker, it is easier to bake using dry yeast - the result is predictable.

[Waist]

Waist, such a recipe in a multilingual instruction, there is just such a French recipe. And in the instructions for the UK there are already more and others at all.

To be precise, in the multilingual instruction there is a recipe without sugar, for example, with butter

300 gr flour
1 tsp salt
20 g butter
220 ml water
3/4 tsp (0.75 tsp) dry drolzhi.

Thalia, I did exactly this recipe.

[asena]

I inserted a photo into the gallery)

asenawhat a fine fellow! And all the great breads turned out!

[SvetaI]

For lovers of rye breads, instead of honey / sugar, you can put apple jam in the same quantities or partially replace it. Here it really gives the bread a wonderful aroma and a special crumb structure.

She baked pure rye bread. By advice SvetaI, added apple jam to the dough. I did not notice any special changes in the structure of the bread, but the taste became more intense! Next time I'll replace all the sugar with jam!

[Galina]

Galina,: mail1: I'll try too. True, there is no jam, but there is jam. Is it okay?

True, there is no jam, but there is jam. Is it okay?

If apple jam, then it will probably do, I think. You have to try.

Apple jam. Blend it with a blender. Eh, just baked bread today, now you have to wait to try.

[Luda]

Luda, your unique masterpiece doesn't let me sleep for many, many, many months. I have an obsessive dream of getting such a beautiful crumb + rounded neat roof.
Oh, handsome. I keep his photo on my desktop so that every day I can see what I should strive for.
An unattainable dream. My faded freaks don't stand next to him

And what I can see from that sinking bread with holes under the roof. I'm not a technologist, so this is just a personal opinion.

1. Dips. They are light in color, not brown. If they were fried from the first minute of baking, they would be dark in color and very fried-dry.
Here they did not have time to weld, from which I conclude that there were no sagging, this dough at the beginning of baking was above the level that was the result.
That is, it turns out that the dough dropped sharply at the baking stage.
I wonder at what stage. Again .. if immediately, the crusts would be darker. That is, the dough sank late enough during the baking phase.
2. A hole under the roof. Uneven fermentation. The maximum gas was under the roof. The thinner the dough, the easier it is for gases to climb. Thus, by the time of baking, the dough continued to be very liquid-tender and most of the gas was not distributed in it, but climbed up. Why? because there was a lot of pressure.
There are two factors: there is a lot of yeast, or their uneven work, for example, they slept, slept, and they were gassed on baking with all their might. But the French regime is long. This is unlikely, but an overabundance of yeast - yes, it will cause excessive pressure and gas rise under the roof with a very wet dough.
3.From which I draw the conclusion: there was an overstretching at the baking stage. Most likely the dough at the time of baking was high-high with maximum gas pressure under the roof. With slow heating, the yeast of the slug continued its work and then the dough could not stand. It fell off, but what had warmed up at the walls froze there, the roof managed to gain a foothold, and the crumb itself fell.

That is, in my opinion, the main reason is too wet dough. Yeast is right there on the verge, because the problem occurs precisely on baked goods.
Maybe it's normal, but maybe it should also be slightly reduced.
Apparently overgrowth at the mid-baking stage.

That is, the yeast-moisture balance is disturbed (most likely both tried to spoil the bread). It is necessary either that or that - to change. So that the rise of bread was lower.
But I would definitely definitely reduce the humidity, for the reason that sagging on the walls indicates a low cohesion of the bread, if it leaves its pieces so easily. That is, the dough barely sticks together. And this is a mess.
It could sink in the middle of baking, and it was also stupid because it had been warming up for too long at high humidity.
Well, since we reduce the humidity, then the yeast should probably be slightly corrected
towards a decrease in their number.

And so. If you were to track the bun, then all the stages of fermentation would have to be. Is there any swamp in the bucket before baking? If there is a good elastic dough, yeast is to blame. And if there is a swamp, then you need to reduce the humidity, and then monitor the yeast.

I'll tell you what. Here each of us does what is more convenient. I throw live yeast crumbs directly into the flour. I admit the thought that when activated, you could take them less. And you might even have to change the consistency of the dough. Because yeast-moisture = straight bundle.
That is, one should understand where the puncture is precisely with the chosen personal strategy.

Now 11 g per 300 g of flour = by my standards, so the eyes on the forehead. I would put 4 g and shake. It seems an incredible amount.
But the bread turned out even without breaks and, in general, a soft crumb, and there, by my standards, the overgrowth should have been a long time ago.
But there is no such thing. Bread and baked goods grew well.
That is, in reality, yeast in this bread cannot be said to be too much.
As far as I understand, this is due to the fact that there were many, many, many wet dough.
And I dare to assume that there was a fill of cool enough water. Even after standing, the yeast worked in cool conditions, that is, in a semi-working rhythm.
Now, if the pouring was hot, it is possible that overgrowth would have occurred earlier and there would be no influxes, but simply collapsed bread.

That is, there can be a lot of personal factors.

With a normal kolobok and water at room temperature, there may be an explosion at a pasta factory)))) with 11 grams per 300 g of flour. Even weak yeast for the eyes is 8 grams, and my strong ones are 4 grams.
but figs knows what kind of yeast is there, what is the temperature of the water when pouring.
I personally would lower the humidity now, I would definitely check the bun, and take well 8 grams of yeast to begin with. Well, I would consistently achieve a good result with my personal strategy.

for fun, I would like you to see it. Wheat bread grows in the oven.

🔗

[Waist]

Waist, such a recipe in a multilingual instruction, there is just such a French recipe. And in the instructions for the UK there are already more and others at all.

Girls, could you please download the very recipes from the manual that we don't have?

Lena, thanks for the comments.
Tomorrow is a day off, I will try to reduce the yeast and liquid and track the bun. And there was only one tab of French flour. But I still want to understand what is the matter.

In this regard, I have a question: should French bread have ordinary buns? There is more water according to the recipe than regular white.
And at what stage is what kolobok?
My French always turns out lower than usual - also a paradox.I'm already starting to think, maybe something is wrong with the stove.
It seems that the yeast is fresh, and the quality should be normal.

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, in a European I liked the Italian mode, I haven't tried French yet, so I can't say anything (I haven't used the normal mode yet). Maybe Thalia baked in French?



NinelleI'll try it in the evening. But there are many sheets. Before buying, I downloaded the instructions for the European on the Panasonic website, choosing the UK region. There is a Support section. In this section I chose Online Help, then download the manual. From the proposed I chose the category Home Appliances, Breadmakers and the desired model (SDZB2512). Then a bunch of instructions pops up, but you need to take the first UK model (21 MB) and the second (this is multilingual). In multilingual, all instructions are the same, only in different languages ​​(only German seems to have a little more recipes). Recipes in English in multilingual instructions and in instructions for Britain are different

And yesterday I got a brick, but sweet and tasty, but I know why - it stopped. In general, I overdid it - I brewed wheat flour and rye flour, after the last dump I always mold it with a spatula. Before baking, I think in 2 minutes, let me take a look, and then .... Mom, dear !! again crumpled dough and the shape is not clear what

[yosha]

Thank you all for the kind words

I was interested in multi-grain.

yosha, multi-grain and Borodino I baked from packages. While I'm afraid to experiment with rye flour, but I've already bought a pack))

Should French bread have ordinary bun? There is more water according to the recipe than regular white.

With us, we discussed this with the girls, on the recipe with 400g of flour, the bun turns out to be smeared, with a skirt, until the very end of the batch

[Tatyana]

Tatyana,

The more moist, the smearing the bun, the more tender and the more perforated the bread will be. Therefore, if the flour withstands, then ideally

With us, we discussed this with the girls, on the recipe with 400g of flour, the bun turns out to be smeared, with a skirt, until the very end of the batch

but in practice life has shown that it depends on flour.
When exactly by the end of the batch we have a neat ball, the flour always withstands this. Well, in terms of taste and lift, a little rougher and less.
But when, by the end of the kneading, we have a comma type, sticks to the wall, waddles, one end holds on to the spatula, then the majority of the flour also reacts perfectly to this, and the bread is softer. For me this is my favorite type of kolobok.
And the most dangerous thing is when at the end of the batch there is a puddle under the shoulder blade even for French. Here the roof may already collapse.
At the same time, sometimes the roof collapses, but very tasty.
That is, it is difficult to give a direct recommendation. Each option gives its own tenderness.
The only thing when it is clearly wrong is if the flour does not withstand this puddle under the shoulder blade and the bread not only collapses, but also tasteless.

I just even looked at the flour-water proportion in the recipe 300 g flour -220 g water, that's 220/300 = 0.73 - I never had flour at all that I would have withstood so much.
I have a standard of 0.65 or 0.71 - my water limit for high-strength flour. That is, my spread on the water would be 195g - 210g. I would start testing for French with 200 g

With yeast - I love airy bread. I'm afraid to put less yeast. Then I'll try it on my Ukrainian flour.
then you need to knead the bun at the very limit of humidity. You will have to calculate in practice. Start with a little puddle at the end.
The more moist and tender the bun at the end of the batch, the more airy the bread.
But with yeast, it should be understood that loosening from them can be obtained in two ways: push them in more and let the crowd work half-heartedly, or you can give less, but how to revive them.
These cases will differ in taste. If I were you, I would take the advice Natalie to revitalize the yeast, to try the option when the yeast activity is high, not because of their quantity.
It should also be understood that the temperature of the filling with water affects the activity of the yeast. That is, if you pour from the refrigerator or room temperature, the result will also be different.
That is, he can try to put less yeast, and make the pouring warmer and look at the result - suddenly he will like it more.

I can't find it here, somewhere the question was why bread in the French regime could be lower than in the main one.

There may be several reasons.
There is the worst reason: too much yeast. Then, at some stage, overdevelopment occurs and at the end the gluten is no longer able to withstand a lot of gas. But this should affect the rough crumb.

Second, the regimen is long and sugar is not provided there, so perhaps yeast is stupidly lacking at the end of the meal and it slows down its activity at the last stage. Therefore, it would not hurt to give the recipe a little like a flavoring additive to CZ, or buy unsweetened molasses, maltose syrup. That is, enrich the flour with a treat for yeast bacteria.
The third, rather weak flour, its gas resistance decreases towards the end. Here it is better to give the very ascorbic acid to strengthen the gluten, and as a result, increase the gas retention to the very end.
The fourth, very dense batch. It is necessary to increase the humidity of the kolobok. The French regime is long and there, if the flour is long-swelling, then by the end it becomes more dense than on the usual one, and as a result, the volume is reduced.

That is, in theory, for French bread, if you want to have a good fluff, it will always be useful to enrich and enhance the flour, and knead on the verge of maximum moisture.

I baked rye with an apple here, I really liked the result. I have had something like jam for a long time, from the cake from the juicer, added a little water, just a little sugar and a handful of lingonberries per liter jar, and so this "cake" added 60 grams to the liquid account.



after all, our site is very coarse, the holes turned out to be smooth and shiny, they pressed a little from the bottom, me and my husband liked the result For rye bread, soft, not wet, cut on the second day, does not stick to the knife.

apple pomace jam 60g
serum - topped up in cake up to 300ml
psyllium 1 tsp
rye flour 310g
red malt 1 tbsp
salt 1 tsp
yeast 1 tsp

the holes turned out smooth and shiny,

Just about, shiny holes are just obtained from apple jam. Very appetizing!

It is always interesting to learn new and unusual ways of baking bread. Today it
Heidi bread is the whitest bread

Bread with an amazing history (quote):

I saw this bread at the Honey boy baker in his Cozy Bake blog. He writes that he was taught to bake by a Japanese baker who was very impressed with the touching story told in the Japanese animated film [阿尔卑斯 山 少女. In the story, the boy Heidi saved soft and very white buns for an old grandmother. Then I tried to find this recipe on Russian-language sites. I only managed to find it from alla_dj, a very passionate baker. Honey boy bakes this bread in the form of buns, alla_dj - shaped bread.

--------------------------
The author of the recipe is Lyudmila lappl1.
------------------------------------------------
The recipe uses tempered milk (Luda recommends it for baking KULICHEY):

In addition, I prepared milk in a special way - ** tempered, that is, I first brought it to a boil, and then kept it at 90 * C for 30 minutes. Luda wrote about this method in her LJ. Baking with tempered milk is of high quality, has a long shelf life and does not stale. This is due to the fact that milk contains substances - thiols, which have a depressing effect on the formation of gluten. When milk is kept at 90 * C for 30 minutes, thiols are destroyed, and the dough is enriched with amino acids, sugars, proteins and fats contained in milk. I used this technique for the first time when baking cakes. And she was convinced of the validity of Luda's observations. The cakes turned out to be very lush, tall compared to cakes made with ordinary milk, and did not stale for a long time.
______________________
Read the rest of the very interesting points in the Temko itself.

Please, in more detail if it is possible at the expense of milk ... it turns out something like baked will it taste like?
(I'm not really into this)

[WLAD]

WLAD, no, the taste of boiled, 30 minutes for 90 degrees will not give heating. I tried to get baked milk in a cartoon on milk porridge, I kept it for 4 hours, it tasted more like boiled, the color may have "mellowed" a little, but maybe I just really wanted to believe it

I stubbornly continue to adapt the leaven to Panasik, instead of yeast, and it does not work out badly, the leaven grows wild every day. Now I have two of them for rye and white bread.
Cools down

[Olga]

Olga, it turned out beautiful, the structure-pattern of the crust - you can clearly see how it was understood, baked, and you just want to break off a piece

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, Thank you

[$ vetLana]

I always make Easter cakes with boiled milk, a tradition like this (at my mother's house before Easter there was a whole ritual, since for me Easter is a holiday of family traditions, I also do it). Then I read Luda's LJ explanation and the recipe for cakes practically coincides



$ vetLana, interesting white bread. When we have time to bake everything we have planned, we eat bread so slowly at home. I'll bookmark

$ vetLana, an interesting white bread. When we have time to bake everything we have planned, we eat bread so slowly at home

: Friends: And don't tell me, I also have a bunch of bread recipes in my bookmarks. But over time I realized that I won't bake some. So from time to time I delete from bookmarks those that are no longer interesting.