Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

Girls, in Dixie for 30 rubles per 2 kg, I recommend Limak flour.

Wow, a new kind of Limak, I've never seen this before

There is no kolobok on pure rye dough, and this plasticine has to be mixed and molded with a spatula.

This is yes. There is no way without it. I bought my Panasonic 257 with the "rye" program just to bake rye bread. Once upon a time (more than forty years ago), I was very fond of our St. Petersburg hearth rye bread. I cannot eat what is now sold under this name. For a long time I baked bread according to different recipes, but I didn't like any of them. Almost disappointed in my idea, I came across a recipe

Custard rye bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives (Vanya28)

Oh, happiness, that was what I needed! Now I bake this recipe, slightly changing it for myself. I take peeled rye flour and whole grain rye flour 50:50. Well, I adore heavy and coarse pure rye bread with a sticky crumb! I used to bake on the "gluten-free" program with some "dances", and after buying KM Kenwood I knead in KM, and I ferment and bake in Panas for "pastries" in a bread form L7. Home-grown people eat such bread when there is no store (I have not picked up a rye recipe so that they like it, fussy)

[Lena]

Lena, that Icelandic bread, still closer to the biscuit, here

that Icelandic bread, still closer to a biscuit, here

I would not say so

[Natasha]

Natasha, well, that means I did it. It's even sweeter and you can make a cake

Here, Lyud, how different can you bake this bread. Just change the conditions - it's already different. I got it - bread! Not soda or yeast, but bread! And not even far or close - not a biscuit.

Natasha, this bread gave birth to a lot of thoughts, I am now drawn to bake something in the oven, well, and don't forget about psyllium, this time I did everything according to the recipe, and another time I will try pure rye and with psyllium ... , that would not be a pity to throw it away, if anything, and then suddenly the dog will refuse to eat my husband, the main consumer of bread, he rejected this Icelandic

Lena wrote:

Yeah, I'll get a decent rye. I'm only a student so far. Now it does not suit at all either in taste or in appearance. But without a soft additive, I certainly would not even try. I have high hopes for psyllium.

and seems more fortunate than me. I would like to see the photo!

Lyudmila, I'm reporting. I have a result with psillum - a C with a plus. At first I was very surprised by the bun. Already on kneading, it was clear that the psillum was very dry, drawing out the liquid. Swiftly! I had to add water by eye, of course. And all the same, I was not happy with the result, with the look of the kolobok.
It didn't work with cold proofing either. Just that afternoon, the master came to tune the refrigerator, and the pace. in the upper chamber decreased, from + 2x to 5 degrees. Of course, there was no question of raising the test. I didn't want to sit at night, watch the rise. Therefore, I had to reconcile and leave there the form with the future bread until morning.
In the morning, he did not rise for a very long time, despite the heating. Everything was clear: he would not be tall. I waited until the last; but the view hinted that there was nothing more to expect. In addition, she was afraid that she would stop, ferment completely.
And so it happened - short, level with the form; but not soggy, but rather dense and heavy.
But the taste has changed significantly - without panifarin, this recipe was always very pleased ... no, not at all what it used to be. Alas.
I think I will refrain from experimenting with panifarin

I made Borodinsky with sourdough with phytomucil. Phytomucil (aka psyllium) soaked in advance for half an hour somewhere. When mixing, I focused exclusively on the bun. The bread is delicious, and the perforation made me happy. I put 1 tsp on a loaf. phytomucil.

[Milena Krymova]

Milena Krymova, well, psyllium swells. Like starch. Already the mechanism of its influence was discussed here from all sides.
Well, perhaps, I got excited when I suggested throwing it into the flour. Probably, for those who are for the first time, it is better to soak, so they will not be frightened by the swelling of the dough.
Phytomucil-psilium is practically tasteless, it is not yeast .. and so on. It is not as strong as gluten to keep the bread crumbs just like wheat flour. It's like adding starch, just a little stronger. Requires a little more water on itself.
It helps rye bread to be softer. Looseness directly depends on gas retention in the dough.
I’m dull for something, but here you’ll get normal rye bread with hot fermentation, and if you put it in the refrigerator, you’re a virtuoso

[Milena Krymova]

Milena Krymova, water, if I took 400 ml per 600 g of flour and it's really not enough, I kind of wrote

but I would have made more water up to 0.5 liters and a dietary regime

I would take 500ml, I can’t say anything about standing in the refrigerator, I don’t like long stories, so I bake everything at once, maximum on the length of the prog. Maybe the yeast did not wake up after the refrigerator, The only thing I remember is that it is undesirable to put it right out of the refrigerator for heating, you must first let the yeast wake up at room temperature for a couple of hours, and then for heating, but in long stories I am not Copenhagen



Lena, but we, especially my husband, did not like Icelandic, just thoughts appeared about yeast baked goods in the oven, you just need to put it on earlier, almost immediately after closing the pipe.

Lyuda Lena, I'll try to bake it on a psillum in the afternoon, there will be more time to observe, and I will throw it, as you advise, into the dough. Maybe I will bake it without a long cold standing .. let's see.
Me - absolutely !!! I do not like the taste of short bread, without dough and cold fermentation. I hardly bake such bread, only if it is urgently needed. It happened a long time ago, that is, relatively long ago, about two years, since this Panasonic appeared, and only the first, experimental, so to speak, were without my personal problems.
Thank you for sharing your experience here; I almost always read you, listen to you with a breath ..
After all, I am a beginner in this business, and I do not know all the subtleties.

that it would not be a pity to throw it away, if anything, and then suddenly the dog will refuse to eat

??!

I don't want to offend anyone. This is a joke, I hope? as an old dog lover, I would not advise anyone to feed the animal with bread. All the more so - rye, and fresh! A dog is not a cow, their intestines are not adapted to digest a large amount of fiber.
You can, of course, as a delicacy - dry croutons 1 * 1 cm in size, or smaller. A little, on the street, pour into your pocket.
I apologize for the offtopic.

[Irinabr]

Irinabr, Irina, I really liked your bread! Beautiful!! Tasty? What was the recipe for baking?

About psyllium, I do not soak it in advance, I just pour it into the liquid, I have serum, during the temperature equalization, it somehow swells there, and during kneading everything will mix well.

Irinabr, Irina, I really liked your bread! Beautiful!! Tasty? What was the recipe for baking?

Daria, thanks!
Very tasty!

Ingredients (weight and volume are approximate, I put everything by sight, but the error in weight / volume will be small, the bun can be corrected with flour-water)

Eternal rye sourdough about 200 gr. (perhaps a little less), fed in the evening.
230 ml water (1 glass)
2 cups wheat flour c. from.
3/4 cup peeled rye flour (at the end of kneading, added to a bun with a small skirt, about a glass in total)
1 tsp phytomucil, soaked in advance in 50 gr. water for 30 minutes (this is in addition to 230 ml)
2 tbsp. l. with top sour cream
1 tbsp. l. milk powder
1 tsp honey
1 tspsugar (you can have more, but I don't like sweet, but with this amount, the taste seems balanced to me)
1.5 tsp. salt
3 tbsp. l. fermented rye malt
1 tbsp. l. ground coriander
1 tbsp. l. butter

In addition, yeast was not added to the bread, only sourdough.

I made pre-mixing and kneading in a bread machine. On the batch I corrected the bun. After that, I put it in a mold, put it in a warm place, waited until the volume increased a little more than twice (it took about 3-4 hours) and baked in the oven at 220 degrees for 10 minutes, 35 minutes at 180, turned it off and another 10 minutes in the switched off oven. At the very beginning, I sprinkled water into the oven for steam, and sprinkled the bread before planting.
At the end I took it out, covered it with a towel, after 5 minutes on a wire rack in a linen towel. And until it cools down.

I did it with phytomucil for the first time. Very pleased with the result

added to the kolobok with a small skirt,

Oh yes, thin dough is better here than steep. Good bread turned out. And I'm wondering, why is milk powder in the recipe, it seems to me that there is enough liquid yeast for all kinds of feeders

And I'm wondering, why is milk powder in the recipe, it seems to me that there is enough liquid yeast for all kinds of feeders

The bread rises better with milk powder. But this is on the verge of feeling.
Lena fffuntic can explain the chemistry of the process

[Irinabr]

Irinabr, I'm just wondering, what if I need to, but it seems to me that with so many different additives, milk powder "piano" will not play

[Irinabr]

Irinabr, I'm just wondering, what if I need to, but it seems to me that with so many different additives, milk powder "piano" will not play

Quite possibly I always add it to Borodino with sourdough. Next time I'll try without it and unsubscribe.
But my recipes are always different. From what is in the refrigerator. Today there was no whey, I had to add sour cream. And I added butter, because it seemed to me - I asked for the bread. It turned out very tasty!

Daria, thanks!

Eternal rye sourdough about 200 gr. (perhaps a little less), fed in the evening.
230 ml water (1 glass)
2 cups wheat flour c. from.
3/4 cup peeled rye flour (at the end of kneading, added to a bun with a small skirt, about a glass in total)
1 tsp phytomucil, soaked in advance in 50 gr. water for 30 minutes (this is in addition to 230 ml)
2 tbsp. l. with top sour cream
1 tbsp. l. milk powder
1 tsp honey
1 tsp sugar (you can have more, but I don't like sweet, but with this amount, the taste seems balanced to me)
1.5 tsp. salt
3 tbsp. l. fermented rye malt
1 tbsp. l. ground coriander
1 tbsp. l. butter

There is no yeast in bread

I did it with phytomucil for the first time. Very pleased with the result

Regarding the fact that there is no yeast in bread:
and the leaven, why is it not yeast?
It's just wild yeast, not store yeast. The topic of the benefits of sourdough in comparison with purchased yeast has been sorted out a hundred times, but such a statement of the question leads to confusion with really yeast-free bread. And often people perceive sourdough bread as really yeast-free. Last year, we had a new employee at work who began to organize his own small business among female employees by advertising his wife baked sourdough bread as unleavened bread for sale. I sold it dearly, using such advertising of my own, until the aunts realized that the bread was yeast, but just different yeast. Sales have come to naught.

[an_domini]

an_domini, we all here, so as not to be confused, call bread yeast, where cultured (purchased yeast) is placed, and at Irina, sourdough bread. Pay attention, and in the bread sections, yeast and sourdough bread is separated.

[an_domini]

Regarding the fact that there is no yeast in bread:
and the leaven, why is it not yeast?
It's just wild yeast, not store yeast.

I will correct it in the description so that no one gets confused.

an_domini, we all here, so as not to be confused, call bread yeast, where cultured (purchased yeast) is placed, and at Irina, sourdough bread. Pay attention, and in the bread sections, yeast and sourdough bread is separated.

There is no need to speak for everyone, I have been on the site for 8 years and this topic has been discussed many times. About yeast and yeast-free. The site is not a closed society, where you can call everything in your own way as in your company. Yeast-free bread is baked in a completely different way, there are examples on the site.
Icelandic black bread rugbruise (yeast-free), for example. There soda as a baking powder.
Sourdough bread - this is understandable, I hope no one thinks that there really is no yeast in it?

Specifically, she cited an example of how such "own" names can not only mislead other people, but also knock off money for "yeast-free" bread.

[patiently for the hundredth time]

Yes lan. Only if someone opens directly on this page, he can and will confuse. And so this topic and terms are discussed a hundred times. And whoever wants to consider the yeast-free sourdough - he will think so. And whoever wants to figure it out - he will find a full description on the fly.

In fact, we really don't have the whole forum here, but a close get-together of Panasi-machine lovers and you can't just mislead them with all sorts of names, because if a person just wants to bake something with sourdough, then he will have to study the theory of sourdough, well, or at least get acquainted, and here patiently for the hundredth time explain all the nuances where yeast and non-yeast are

Icelandic black bread rugbruise (yeast-free), for example. There soda as a baking powder.

The information in the title is incorrect.

There is no soda (no yeast), but underdeveloped rye-wheat bread spontaneous (spontaneous) short fermentation + soda (in the presence of soda - even more literate, soda acts as an auxiliary element, not the main one),
and consider it a soda just because of the presence of soda there, in no way.
not quite a true example - yeast-free bread. There are wild yeasts, or + kefir, if you use kefir.

This bread can be completely soda if the recipe is changed. Take empty (sterile) flour for microorganisms. Then the role of soda will increase dramatically. In the original version, for CH or with bran, the whole main calculation is for spontaneous fermentation, and soda only acts as an assistant.

The bread rises better with milk powder. But this is on the verge of feeling.
Lena fffantic can explain the chemistry of the process

well, if only you ask

then only taste can be on the verge of sensations. Any mixture of milk-sour milk gives its own flavor. Sour cream is not milk. Serum is not kefir. Different mixes, different tastes.
And from a technological point of view .. different amounts of total fat, protein, substances and different types of ICD.
This total amount will affect the rise of bread only if it goes off scale beyond the limit, but it will immediately reflect on the taste sharply.

Except .. special substances in milk. In unboiled live milk, there are very active substances that have a detrimental effect on gluten. They spoil it. Therefore, strictly boiled milk was used for Easter cake in all old books. Moreover, it is very well boiled, downright boiled several times, because the activity of live milk cannot be simply killed (Luda-Marianna-aga warned about this more than once)
It is more difficult with milk powder. It can be processed, already inactive - baking. And it also happens with the preservation of activity. That is, it will be dirty, like the living.
That is, if the recipe contains just milk, which is alive, that is dry non-baking ... you can get a low rise simply.

BUT specifically in your recipe .. there is sour cream. That is, ICD will very quickly cause sourness, reducing the live negative from whole milk, they will turn it into a normal))) sour substance, with an increase in ICD, and substances that can be eaten deliciously even by yeast.

But in general, they are normal, which are not dirty, milk elements do not affect the rise. They change the character of the crumb. Promotes a more delicate and fine-pored crumb.
It's just that when there are a lot of tasty additives in the dough, yeast and MKB are happy to eat them.To celebrate, yeast gasps sharply, enhancing the rise of bread, and a lot of IBC accelerates ripening.

Milena Krymova,
Well, if it turns out tasty on "dough" and cold standing in the refrigerator, then it's wonderful.
You and Luda have been baking rye or rye-wheat bread for a long time, that is, again, there is a bias towards rye bread. I'm too dilettante in this business, so I'll sit and study quietly
In general, I can't even imagine how rye is ... that is, bread with rye is right to do on dough, and even more so with a long standing. Here it would be classic to get what you want.
With phytomucil-psyllium, I like the consistency of pure rye much more than just rye. Simply rye in general categorically !!! I do not like. Although with psyllium exactly my bread is far from the favorite wheat, even non-Pussies.

[fffuntic]

And again my bread turned out to be low. Baked in the French mode, took into account everything Lena advised fffuntic, I think it's all about yeast. I use dr.Oeker, they may be suitable for pies, but not for bread, where rye flour is present. I added 1 teaspoon psilium to the flour. I couldn't resist the delicious bread, I tried it.

[Ira]

Ira, so what kind of bread didn't work out? what specific recipe? Yeast for wheat and rye flour does not differ, it is important that they are of high quality. The reason may be in their number and a bunch of other reasons.

BUT specifically in your recipe .. there is sour cream. That is, ICD will very quickly cause sourness, reducing the live negative from whole milk, they will turn it into a normal))) sour substance, with an increase in ICD, and substances that can be eaten deliciously even by yeast.

Lena, that's how wonderful that you are
I really like to add sour milk to bread, from whey to sour cream, because it is both tastier and fluffier. And I still love milk powder from the old LG bread machine, where in many recipes it was suggested to add milk powder. And I like the taste with it. I add a little, but when there is, I always put it in. Except for those recipes where bread is purely on water.
And my milk is like this:

20% rye flour and 80% wheat. You advised pre-mixing, cleanly collect everything and you can use French and the water is cold, but not icy. I took 140 ml of homemade yogurt and water. But I watched during the whole time there was no particular growth of the test, I even thought that the temperature of the VHP is low, no 30 degrees.

I would probably not do with rye in French, there is a very delicate proofing mode Diet is more suitable, well, this is my opinion

Well, I also loved to put powdered milk into wheat.

Although I have a very persistent suspicion that it is far from baking
But just milk and milk sour - heaven and earth. When, along with just milk, we put something sour, then milk cannot be perceived as pure milk in dough.
But if milk is there by itself .. it can spoil the mass.
And the milk is sour, there is already calcium and a bunch of ICD, that is, it is already like an additional serum with a bunch of tasty treats. Therefore, yeast with MKB eats them up and it seems to you that bread with sour milk is more magnificent. But it is not so.
With sour milk - it tastes better !!!!!, but the increased activity during the rise of yeast can be observed or not. Depends on the rest of the ingredients.
Then you like to put more glucose into the bread, this also feeds the yeast well.
But .. although whey is excellent, nevertheless, if we work with ZZ or very long fermentation, we reduce the amount of whey sharply, no more than 5-10 percent of the amount of flour. Otherwise, you will get an explosive mixture of whey with the active ingredients of flour - an acid bust, which will negatively affect gluten, that is, taste and rise.

Therefore, not everything is straightforward for bread.
You must always start from the bread recipe, that is, the composition and time !!! fermentation.
The more active the wheat part, the less acid, if just in. from. - no more than half of its weight. If long fermentation is planned, then even less, no more than 15-20 percent.
In mixed breads, too, everything is complicated. On the one hand, there is rye flour - for which, the more whey and acid, the better.
But on the other hand, we have wheat flour - for which acid still cannot be given more than 20 percent of its weight, and the limit is half, if wheat flour is very empty in composition.
And you love to shove sour milk and sourdough. In rye bread, that would be cool. But in the mixed - the grandmother said in two.
It can be overkill for the wheat part.

I would probably not do with rye in French, there is a very delicate proofing mode Diet is more suitable, well, this is my opinion

there is 80 percent wheat. If it is strong, then rye should not have any particular effect.
But Luda may be quite right.

Rye flour also greatly weakens wheat flour, that is, it can belittle, if wheat flour is not very strong, and rye is directly active-preactive, and then such a long pre-mixing and fermentation.
But look ..
just as easily the yeast might not work. When I advised cool water, I meant my Lux, which will work normally when heated. And dry from etker, maybe you're right. Frozen and did not work. They needed a warmer regime.

It's not enough to look at the ascent. Look for smell and crumb.
If everything is straight, tasty and good, not sticky, the crumb is quite tender and fluffy, but only the rise - then the yeast could simply not work as it should.
And if there is a sticky inside or crumbling, then this is no longer yeast, but the mode and composition. If the crumb is defective - the regime and composition.

The crumb is not sticky, the fragrant bread is very tasty. Somewhere, maybe here, I read how one baked several times and picked up her dose of yeast in bread, until she got the right shape.

[then]

The crumb is not sticky, the fragrant bread is very tasty. Somewhere, maybe here, I read how one baked several times and picked up her dose of yeast in bread, until she got the right shape.

try as Luda advised - with the same proportions of everything, it is stupid to change the mode. Diet - hotter, and just a little shorter.
Straight one to one, but dietary.
Perhaps this is exactly what you need.
Now, if it doesn't work, then you will see where it is tastier, and there you will bring to mind.



if the crumb and taste are fine, but the problem is only in the volume, then a mild adjustment of gluten-yeast. Fortify the flour, and give more gas from the yeast.
Or even follow the rise. If the dough will sit for a long time, then start by changing or increasing the yeast.
But that's all then... Look at the dietary one, maybe you need something slightly more heating on mode.

[Irinap]

Irinap, here is a recipe, proven, very good, you can add malt to the flour, and spices are just extra

Rye hearth bread 100% with sourdough culture "Without nothing" (oven) (there is a conversion to yeast) (Tumanchik)

I baked in HP, by leaps and bounds, but I'm lazy to do so long

Conditioned reflex, however

That's for sure, I have similar situations when moving to the city and back, though with a washing machine, there is no panasik in the city, I think to buy everything or not, there is an old redmond, I use it as a kneader, but it is very clumsy, there are no delicate and long modes , knead rye normally, but French or dietary is no way

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, I will definitely try thanks, but I will add a little wheat. Although I baked starter cultures for six months, I still did not learn to bake on time, I am still afraid that it will stop. But I plan to return to them

[Irina]

Irina, there the visa of the recipe itself is a layout for yeast, it bothers me that I have to put it in the evening, maybe I'll repeat it again, only I'll add psyllium not to the dough, but already to the main batch
Tumanchik also has a recipe for very interesting wheat bread with rye bran, 160g of bran, this is a lot, they are lighter than flour

Wheat bars with rye bran (sourdough or yeast) (Tumanchik)

I baked in the author's version, but I should have processed it into rye flour with psyllium



Lena, can you try this recipe in the author's version for a healthy lifestyle, this is a very dietary bread

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, both recipes are very interesting, but I saw that she gives both leavened and yeast, whoever likes it. Thank you!!!

Good people, I'm trying to add apples to the fugascin bread recipe ...so that the loaf turns out higher, maybe someone has already tried it and knows exactly how many apples are needed to make the loaf about medium size or higher? And I also wanted to ask if, for example, a sour apple affects or will it be sweet? And in general, is it possible to increase the height in this way?
Otherwise, my experiments are progressing very slowly.
Here I piled up vegetable gardens that I myself got confused

[Wlad]

Wlad, there are ready-made recipes with an apple. Is it the fugascin you need?

[WLAD]

WLAD, and what Fugaskin, she has a lot of recipes

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, Ludmila, If I'm not mistaken, it's called Darnitsky from the fugasca

White table bread with apple (bread maker) (Qween)

Wheat bread with oatmeal and apple on kefir (Lika)

These recipes are in my bookmarks, but I did not bake

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, this is wheat

The main thing is to understand the principle. See how much they put. Or wait for those who did with the apple.

Wait a minute I will study, but I think that the dough is of different density in bread ... how will this affect ...
Thank you so much

[WLAD]

WLAD, there is a Darnitskiy from Fugaska, the author of Lola There wheat-rye, If you put fresh grated apples there, then count them at the expense of liquid, you can rub an apple or two, then watch the kolobok. If the apples are dried, then just everything according to the recipe and put 50 grams in the dispenser and bake on the prog with the filling. If they are raw in pieces, this is the most difficult for me, I can orient myself on the raisins as much as the raisins are reported according to the recipes in the instructions minus 20 grams, after all, the apples are raw, and again look for the bun. Raw apples can interfere with the flour / liquid balance I think

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, I conduct experiments with raw apples ... wait, the loaf failed a little, but it became much higher than it turned out earlier, I added three quarters of a large apple to it ...
I will try further ...
Thank you very much

added three quarters of a large apple to it ...

As I understand it, raw, but grated or in pieces? I wonder what it tastes like?

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, It does not affect the taste at all, because I still finely chop 5 cloves of garlic and add, well, the malt, of course, and I also finely chop the apple ... as I don’t like any graters

[WLAD]

I still finely chop 5 cloves of garlic and add, well, the malt, of course, and I also finely chop the apple ...

WLAD, the entertainer however