Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

[Lena]

Lena, a bit damp during the night the linseed towel got damp, but it tastes very, very much, I recommend it to everyone, but you need less water.

[Lena]

Lena,

which I have no doubt about is that in Mystery, baking is heated faster, which apparently helps rye not to drop the roof so critical. That is, rye, ideally, apparently, should be put in a well-heated oven, but I don't have an oven in the village

I made French in the following way:

Yeast. 3gr
Flour 350gr
Whole grain. 100gr
Gluten 10gr
Salt 6g
Olive oil 20g
Water 250ml.

It turned out in all shape and more than from a book from a stove, the crust is harder.

Gluten 10gr

What is it like? what is this separate? How to reproduce?

what is this separate?

It is dry gluten, marketed under the name, Panafarin.
By adding it, you will see that the dough becomes more plastic, softer and easier to roll out. As a result, we get bread that hardly crumbles, we observe uniform porosity. The bread stays fresh and soft for a longer time. In addition, its volume also increases. (C)

[Olga]

Olga, it turned out pretty, but I did not understand why to use whole grain flour and at the same time pour gluten, they kind of compensate for each other in terms of usefulness. In my opinion, if you do not replace the premium flour with whole grain, you will get the same thing, I will listen to what Lena says, maybe I’m wrong. There was a period in my life when I was completely tormented with rye bread in radish, I began to add gluten ... but I don't like something about this .. I try to bake without agram, panifarin, etc. But ksatati noticed that very flaxseed flour helps well in raising the dough, literally a tablespoon, well revives the process

The bread turned out to be so tasty and crunchy and sticky that I won't do the original recipe from the book anymore.
Well, at least until you get bored

[no]

Luda,

actually, no nutritionist would recommend wheat bread for every day. Our ancestors had it like a festive one, and the usual one was rougher and rye. At the same time, they worked a lot physically, that is, the increased amount of carbohydrates in the body was not so critical as now with a sedentary lifestyle for many.
Therefore, these games in CZ, excuse me, do not really change the picture, if the recipe is full of c. from. They are more important for those who have problems with the gastrointestinal tract, and it is easier for him to digest CB, bran, and so on.
Then, if you're already using. with., then also fig how much there will be this gluten, it's like candy is, well, a little more sugar or less, it's still candy.
Gluten is essentially dried, washed gluten from the same c. from.
Therefore, you should not be afraid of adding gluten if you are already cooking from wheat. from.
If you take care of health, then you need to limit yourself in this, in principle, and in no other way, if no intensive manual labor with a healthy gastrointestinal tract.

That is, all these supplements of CZ, gluten should not be considered for health.
For flavoring purposes only.

Gluten increases the amount of gluten, that is, either a stronger kneading is required, or there will be a rougher crust and crumb, which some really like, some do not.
If you want a delicate fluffiness with fine porosity - no need to add gluten. Rubberiness and strength in bread - you can add and vary the degree of kneading.
It's just a matter of taste.
And about health .. this is already initially heavy holiday food, a little more or less gravity, no longer plays a role in a healthy body, and a sick person, in principle, will not eat this.

[Lena]

Lena,

I keep forgetting that it was me who was moved on healthy and proper food, because of my diabetes, and everyone else, thank God, are normal healthy people For me, the glycemic index is very important, I automatically count it in every meal, psychological deformation

Luda

alas, I am well acquainted with diabetes, my beloved relative is sick. Therefore, in the course. But wheat bread with or without CZ, or solid CZ is still evil for diabetes.
I am so sorry.
But for a healthy person, it makes no difference. In terms of assimilation. And in terms of health, after a piece of such bread, it would not hurt to chop a lot of firewood and everything will be all right.
And if he goes to sleep right away, then at least a solid central lock will be ...

Luda, if you’re absolutely certain, then you’re right: the hardest thing the body copes with is gluten. This is why negative sentiments are so strong against gluten. The pancreas does not really tolerate it.
Technically, the less it is, the easier it is for the body. To cope with it, you need good physical activity (or the addition of enzymes that facilitate its breakdown)
But a healthy body won't really notice a little more or less gluten in flour. It either already exists or it does not exist.
Well, for the unhealthy, it can be critical. For an unhealthy organism, everything must be calculated and looked at the reaction. And if we also take into account that a dishonest manufacturer can put something in addition to a chemical in an improver like Panifirin, then we still need to think about using it.

What is it like? what is this separate? How to reproduce?

Valentine, there is a separate RECIPE on the forum

Do-it-yourself panifarin

And read Lena's comment below!

[Natasha,]

Natasha, I will just comment on that link.

First of all, gluten (gluten in a scientific way) is quite an elegant thing that does not digest a rude attitude, which requires careful treatment.
Therefore, the first part of the recipe, getting gluten from flour, for example, is correct. But with reservations.
Firstly, there may be a very irrational consumption of flour, because often flour needs to lie up to three hours for maximum gluten, and sometimes more, not all flour gives gluten within an hour.
Second, it is better to keep it in the cold so that the formed gluten does not degrade.
Thirdly, I'm not sure, but freezing wet gluten means ruining the lion's share. When it freezes, the inlet expands and even glass bottles burst from its pressure, to say nothing of the delicate gluten.
In production, gluten is first dried, and in some special scientific way, so as not to destroy it. No one in a manufacturing facility puts wet gluten in the freezer.

That is, I can assume that some of the gluten dies by the link method, which should worsen the taste of bread.
I do not pretend to be true, but theoretically it should be so.

Next, let's differentiate between gluten (gluten) and panifirin.
Gluten is pure gluten, but panifirin = gluten + improvers at the discretion of the manufacturer. Panifirin is considered an enhancer, not just gluten.
So make your own conclusions.
As I have already argued, a healthy body does not care, but even a partially sick one does not. Everything will depend on the composition of the improver.

I will comment slightly

Thank you, Len, I am always pleased and useful to read your comments Even as a "think and choose / make a decision"

[for baking wheat or wheat-rye bread, it is better to choose panifarin.For baking rye or rye-wheat bread - gluten or dry "Extra-R" starter culture.In rye and rye-wheat bread, I recommend combining dry wheat gluten and dry “Extra-R” starter culture.]

here is a comment from a professional, might be interesting

The answer of the chief technologist of Pudoff Group of Companies Lyudmila Kaskova:

Panifarin and gluten are similar baking ingredients at first glance, but they are still different. Gluten is pure protein and panifarin is protein plus other baking improvers. They work in different ways. Without going into boring formulations, I'll just say: for baking wheat or wheat-rye bread, it is better to choose panifarin.For baking rye or rye-wheat bread - gluten or dry "Extra-R" starter culture.
In rye and rye-wheat bread, I recommend combining dry wheat gluten and dry “Extra-R” starter culture.

Gluten is a tough elastic gel formed by the proteins of wheat flour. This substance, dried under special conditions, is dry gluten. Dry gluten can be added to any baked product. The more gluten in the dough, the more this elastic mass will be able to keep the bubbles of carbon dioxide formed during the fermentation of the yeast. Consequently, the rise of the dough will be better. Since the gluten frame of the dough is reinforced with added gluten, this will prevent the dough from falling off during the lifting process. This is especially important if you are a novice baker, and while it is difficult for you to determine the amount of water and yeast added to the dough. If you add more water and yeast than necessary, gluten will save the day and the bread will turn out good.
In addition, gluten reduces crumb crumbiness and prolongs the shelf life of products. This is due to the swelling of proteins that absorb most of the moisture.
All of the above advantages of gluten are very important if you bake bread from a mixture of different types of flour or only from rye flour. For example, rye and wheat. Proteins of rye flour do not create gluten. It is possible that the flour you bought is not good enough either. And in order to get a good volume of bread, you still need to add gluten.
"Panifarin" is a bakery improver. Ingredients: dry wheat gluten (gluten), swelling wheat flour, ascorbic acid, enzymes.
I wrote about the properties of gluten above. Now - ascorbic acid and enzymes. These are substances with oxidizing properties. They significantly inhibit proteolysis, strengthen gluten and dough consistency. This happens in this way: they change the ratio of sulfhydryl groups (-SH) and disulfide bonds in the protein molecule. Under the action of oxidants due to the - SH group, bonds - S-S- are formed, strengthening the structure of the protein molecule. In addition, ascorbic acid and enzymes give the bread a pleasant sourness and aroma. Wheat flour is still neutral in taste, unlike rye flour. Rye flour itself has a rather active taste. Therefore, the Panifarina additive will not only strengthen the gluten already present in wheat flour, but also give bread made from wheat and wheat-rye flour a special taste and aroma.

According to the theory, I see a way out of the situation in the partial use of the recipe.
Everything is correct there in theory, until it comes to freezing.
If you really want to freeze, then the conclusion suggests itself that it is necessary to dry it as best as possible before the freezer.
I don’t know how much gluten degrades when frozen, but this is not done in production.
Maybe insignificantly for household needs, and maybe noticeably in bread.

In general, before freezing, we have good washed gluten, which can be added to the dough without any problems.
That is, the washed gluten is unspoiled, just take it and add it. Quality ready made gluten.

But how to preserve it correctly, without partial death, dry it or freeze it, I do not know.
I can only assume that drying is better than freezing, since professionals do not freeze.
When describing the receipt of gluten, I found
"Gluten Drying: The gluten on the screen is washed, dehydrated, dried and crushed to obtain the final gluten powder product."
although home drying is clearly not the same as professional drying.
The dough is frozen, but in shock freeze and with additives of improvers. They write that much depends on the storage time.
In general, the question: how much gluten made at home by freezing or drying will be similar to purchased gluten remains open.

[Natalia]

Natalia, I repeated bread with pesto, increasing the amount of flour and yeast, and replacing cereals with flour, the result is the same, it seems to me that store-bought pesto contains the chemistry of suppressing yeast.
I'll make the pesto myself.

[Ol]

Ol, do you think that this bread should be fluffy? I don't think so, although more porosity in the upper part and less porosity in the lower part is a flaw

[Natasha]

Natasha, I certainly don’t think so, I don’t understand why he doesn’t rise, but behaves like rye flour

[Olya]

Olya, do you put fresh garlic? If you have it evil, then it can interfere (oppress) the yeast. I had it. Now I put either old garlic or dry garlic with the yeast. Try to bake with dry

Olya, I read and nothing .. I don't understand. What is pesto?
if you are talking about corn flour, then there is no gluten, one moisture-absorbing starch, it is much more water-absorbing.
Gluten-free flour - can be considered as a load on wheat, more than 50 percent of such flour and truncated .. wheat does not pull. Perhaps with corn flour, the percentage of stability for wheat flour is even lower, because it is water-absorbing, as it swells - so it beats wheat flour with its weight.
And what .. will yeast do here? Where should they store gas?
Perhaps this is where a good gluten supplement would make sense. We need to see how the pros bake with such flour.
Or what I did not understand in the discussions?

[Lena]

Lena, corn is only 14% of the volume of wheat. I think canned pesto is the reason for the poor rise.

Yes, I looked at the recipe and understood what pesto is. But there his cat cried. Let's say garlic inhibits yeast, but not as much. You didn't stick garlic all over the bread.
What are they? so downright tender?
And try to change them to others and with preliminary animation.

Flax, they are the freshest Turkish ones, my husband drives home-brew for the same only for drinks (pro), says that it is better on the market, and then other recipes are ideally baked on them.

And today I am a marble cupcake from the instructions. Delicious!

And today I am a marble cupcake from the instructions

The photo is very necessary

Wow, deFFchonki, what are you!)))
I was gone for a week, and you laid out interesting theories here and delicious bread
But I don’t panic about anything ... I just don’t know about that. Darknessaa ..
And I'm not looking in stores ...
Somehow and so my bread is nra ..... mine.
And wheat, and wheat-rye ... and rye ~ wheat.
Leaving, I baked two loaves of bread from Brad Pete for the whole week on the road and for the whole week with me to the mountains. She did not regret a second. It was the very thing.
not deteriorated, not stale. Approached everything. I recommend trying this bread.
When baking, I followed the recipe author's instructions exactly.
Rye bread with a beautiful roof (bread maker) (Bread Pete)

Photo by the author.

[Margarita]

Margarita, took notes, but we have no mountains, I will try for mushrooms and fishing.
Handsome,

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina, no, well, NOT ONLY to the mountains. Why in the mountains ...
You misunderstood me. We lived in the hotel, but I took my bread with me, and the cartoon, and ... well, never mind. They used the bread for the sandwiches, and take tea in a thermos with us. And forward to the lifts and further walking.
But I often bake this bread for the house and we love it. Like very much.

[Olya]

Olya, try on live Lux, this does not care about garlic and pesto, if not expired.
Well, yeast and gluten are responsible for the rise and no one else.
Either yeast is harmful, or the flour is weak and gluten does not hold gas. There is no third.
Good gluten yeast shouldn't die from adding garlic pesto. And yours are too delicate. Look for those who are picky.
Don't .. well, you can, of course, indulge them. Remove pesto, replace with dried garlic. Perhaps they will have mercy

Ritus, handsome neat with very appetizing crusts

handsome neat with very appetizing crusts

Len, so this is a photo, not mine!
I didn't take a picture of mine. But it turned out the same, perfect. Two rolls and both are like twins.

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina, photo of recipe or cupcake?
Recipe: 175 g butter, 175 g sugar, 175 g flour, 3 eggs, 1.5 tsp. baking powder, 2 tbsp. l. cocoa.Beat the softened butter and sugar first, add the eggs, beat again, gradually add the flour and baking powder. Add cocoa to 1/3 of the dough, put in a bucket alternately 2 tablespoons of light dough and a spoonful of dark. My dough turned out to be thick, so it did not spread, but remained spots

Unrealistically delicious. The daughter said that it was not you who baked, but the pastry chef (probably Selezneva meant, he was drawn on the HP)

The photo is very necessary

and I nada recipe!
aaa found a recipe thanks! how much oven do you need?

living suite

And what's that? I dont know.....

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina, like these ones

[Lena]

Ritochka, well, you disappoint me, wrote in rye, I rolled my lip, like a goat galloped off to watch, and he was wheat-rye, well, I don't play like that
Lena, I have in the fall, when freshly dug garlic, it cannot be added to yeast, even a clove, it suppresses them like dynamite fish
I bought everything for pesto, my basil, as I make pesto, so I will make bread. It is painfully interesting

Luda, I have everything from stores, half-dead greenhouse origin
I only saw freshly dug garlic in pictures. I fully believe that your real home is capable of anything.
Ritushi has mountains and pies, you have awesome rye and freshly dug garlic. Truncated, girls, I'll definitely come to visit you
And then to Natalie then, she also has rains and dampness there against the background of the beauties of Ireland. What is there with freshly dug real fruits and vegetables is not yet clear.

[Mirabel]

Mirabel, 60 minutes and 10 minutes with HP off

I have a question about spelled bread (spelled), if someone baked it. It is tasty?
And here in the book there are many recipes for bread with spelled.
We have it, however, in Auchan at the price of Italian Manitoba. But there are also cheaper ones on the Internet.

[Lena]

Lena, that come, no question, the main thing is that we have our own honey

spelled bread (spelled

So spelled is spelled Here I am dark, and I think what it is, but I forgot to ask, so I have spelled, but I haven't baked this yet

[Margarita]

I baked two loaves of Brad Peet's bread for the trip and for the whole week with me to the mountains.

Oh, what bread! I already ran and baked this, though I did it with liquid, but thanks Admin, I fixed the bun along the way, cut off the crust now - it's a handsome man inside! porous, it should taste great, we love that. Thanks for the tip Margarita,

we love that. Thanks for the tip Margarita,

Yes! Yes!!!
It's delicious, delicious. And the author, what a fine fellow he is! Doesn't go to the Forum anymore. Sorry!)
I baked this bread many times, but as if ... I forgot to share with you ...

[Anna]

And I again bake French according to an updated recipe, everyone liked it very much

like these ones

Clear. But they have a very strong yeast aroma, they have long been abandoned.




Anna, I saw everything, thanks, I will bake, beauty.

[Olga]

Olga, and I love Lux, I bake on them all the time. I like the smell of bread. When they are not (end), then I use Turkish dry Pakmaya.

Ritochka, well, you disappoint me, wrote in rye, I rolled my lip,

well yes, well yes ... I admit ...
I am like that ~ I can call any black bread "rye", where there is more than a third of rye flour ...
It’s just very long kazhraz to pronounce WHEAT-RYE !!!!

[Ritochka]

Ritochka, I have a fad on rye, so I'm still looking for the perfect recipe, and even though with my brains I understand that there is no such thing that only myself ... but hope never dies. I didn't want to offend you

and I, too, in a whisper:
I use Lux all the time. They do not smell if put right and they are fresh

[Margarita]

When baking, I followed the recipe author's instructions exactly.

Margarita, and on what program was such a miracle baked?

[Margarita]

Margarita, and on what program was such a miracle baked?

I'm not Rita, but can I answer? In Basic mode. So the author says.

Thank you
Didn't see the regime. It is in the first post that the "mode" is written in green, and which one is not indicated.
I will try

I baked a muffin, added vanilla and raisins with candied fruits for individuality.

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina,

when the picture is uploaded to the gallery, two buttons appear above the picture, click on the desired one, by this click, you are already loading the desired picture or preview into the clipboard. Nothing, nowhere purely vertically does not change, the line for copying does not appear, everything has already happened automatically by your click. After this click, you just need to right-click or right-click the touchpad to click on the place where you want to insert the picture, an icon will appear, select the "insert" command and that's it .. Oh, I don't know if I wrote it clearly, but I tried

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, Thank you.