Baked goods in Moulinex OW 5004

[rye dough]

I understood correctly that under rye dough you understand only the composition given in your recipe? Ie. other types of "rye dough" You did not try?

Mruklik, have you calculated all programs with precise measurements of "time - temperature"? Can I paint it?

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik - A Pr2 and Pr3 are practically similar, except that Pr3 kneads a little (3 minutes) longer, but bakes less (5 minutes), that is, the crust will not be fried.

Tosha - Have you calculated all programs with precise measurements of "time - temperature"?

Mixing program batch under. batch under.
1.Simple bread (basic) 5min 5m 15m 40m 10s 25m 15s 50m -1h h = 3h20m
2.french roll 5m 5m 12m 1h05m 2m 60m -1h15m h = 3h39m
3.whole flour bread 5m 5m 15m 1h10m 2m 60m -1h10m h = 3h42m
4.sweet bread 10m 5m 18m 1h10m 2m 60m -1h05m h = 3h50m
5.fast baked bread 13m 22m
6.gluten free bread 15m 60m
7.bread without salt 5m 5m 15m 1h05m 2m 60m
8.bread enriched with Omega3 5m 5m 18m 1h10m 2m 60m
9. Borodino bread 5m 25m 20m 39m 10s 26m 15s 50m-53m h = 3h38m
13. yeast dough 5m 5m 15m 60m
time is clear and who measured the temperature
or do you assume that the temperature is the same for all programs
and the difference is only in baking time

Mruklik - that basically bread should have a "soft" crust (in our understanding, "no crust") and suggested Pr1
on 1 program \ main \ basic - who has it as written
my bread is perfect with a crispy tanned crust
but on program 2, the crust turns out to be such as with a sharp knife
you have to make an effort

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik --- did not please
for more than a year what have not been tried
and experimented with flour and "additives"
but in my family there are five eaters \ and some of them \ so I brought out an average recipe that everyone likes
and it is for this reason that I published it, since the five agreed in tastes, then maybe someone else will like it

[Tosha]

Tosha, unfortunately, I cannot indicate the temperature - there is no thermocouple to measure. Somewhere on the forum I read that one craftsman measured temperatures, but the data is very approximate (he himself indicates an error in the measurement). So it says there that the average temperature during baking varies slightly, and heating when the dough rises is about 30 degrees.
I was more interested in the ratio of the mixing-rise (heating) durations, but here the beginning of heating is easy to track by the clicks of the relay. I will give you this ratio (for 1000g, light crust) to me it seems interesting and suggestive:
Pr1 batch 16 min rise 1 h 54 min, heating 1 h 54 min
Pr2 batch 12 min rise 2 h, heating 30 min
Pr3 kneading 15 min rise 2 h 05 min, heating 40 min
Pr4 kneading 18 min rise 2 h 10 min, heating 1 h 45 min
Pr8 batch 20 min rise 2 h 08 min, heating 1 h
Pr9 (5 min batch + 25 min stop) heated at the beginning then
kneading 21 min, rise 1 h 55 min, heating 50 min

At the same time, as I already wrote, on Pr1 and 9 there are two short (10-15s) "light" workouts, and on Pr2, 3, 4, 8 there is one intense long (2 min)

[I noticed that not only the ingredients affect the stability of the result, but I am a well-chosen HP program.]

for more than a year what have not been tried
and experimented with flour and with "additives"
but in my family there are five eaters \ and what \ so I have derived an average recipe

Well, now it's clearer for me why we are arguing with you in two sections of this topic (see Rye in Moulinex) of the same thread (Operation). Your main task is to feed the family with bread of an average kind, and for me, it happened so, and the family is smaller, but requests ..... They don't eat the same thing twice, and I'm bored with repeating myself, that is, I want to have a set recipes (good, stable) so that repetitions are invisible. But in these experiments of mine, I noticed that not only the ingredients affect the stability of the result, but I am a well-chosen HP program.So I'm trying to figure out, and what other members of the forum think about this, and you often confuse my interest by imposing your dough-dough-baking scheme. If we take this scheme as a basis, then why do we need HP, you can do with a kneader and an oven, and the scheme is not for all breads.
And I'm interested in baking it in HP, in the oven I would not even start

[still remembered]

Oh, Tosha, still remembered... Somehow fugaska sent me her file (Excel) with recipes in a PM, and there was also a timing page. Here is interesting at her stove (in my opinion Kenwood, but it's better to clarify the model):

Pr1 (regular white) kneading 20 min rise 1 h 55 min baking 1 h
Pr3 (rye) heats the contents without stirring for 30 minutesthen
kneading 15 min rise 2h baking 50 min
Pr4 (sweet) kneading 20 min rise 1 h 55 min baking 1 h

Heating the contents is not listed, but EVERYWHERE there are two short warm-ups.
I love Fugaskin's recipes the most, but the ones where she recommends Pr1 are the best. This is understandable - we have the same programs. And here are other programs (or recipes of other members of the forum) ..... Fugasca's baked goods do not exceed 1 hour, while ours, as a rule, more than 1 hour. Yes, and we have an intensive workout, and the distance after a workout is almost the same
If you want, I will send it to you in PM and my timing (Excel)

You are interested in something - share your thoughts and developments

Pure rye bread in Moulinex and Panasonic is easy to get with a combination of two programs.
We read here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9345.msg94252
For improvement, we write comments.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28! What oven do you bake in?
Moulinex 5004 has a gluten-free bread program, why dough? And what is the difference between the gluten-free program and the dough program in Panasonic? Or is it fundamentally that the oven needs 1 hour and 30 minutes, then where are the programs?

Mruklik, I have the timing of fugaska, but I did not compare it with ours - I was guided when discussing a specific recipe by members of the forum with different stoves and made conclusions. I bake not so long ago - only at the beginning of the path of a baker. The raised topic carried away, I will compare and think.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28! What oven do you bake in?
Moulinex 5004 has a gluten-free bread program, why dough? And what is the difference between the gluten-free program in Panasonic and the dough program? Or is it fundamentally that the oven needs 1 hour and 30 minutes, then where are the programs?

The proposed solution with the selection of programs is based only on the recipe time and eliminates the uncertainty in achieving a good result with rye bread.
The recipe is selected for quick kneading, rise 60 minutes and baked goods in 1 hour 30 minutes.
The bread is capricious, and any deviation easily leads to marriage.
I'll post funny pictures of violations soon.

timing ... I did not compare with ours - I was guided when discussing a specific recipe by members of the forum with different stoves and made conclusions. I bake not so long ago - only at the beginning of the path of a baker. The raised topic carried away, I will compare and think.

I, too, first of all, followed everything for the ingredients, and then I accidentally baked the same recipe on different programs (I wrote about this at the beginning) and very much thought
And, having some experience in the concept of "modeling" as such, I am even more convinced that the presence in HP 14! programs (of which at least FIVE are for bread!) cannot be exclusively a publicity stunt somewhere "the dog is buried". But not being a bakery technologist (or a chemist), I cannot immediately (without experience) say which dough is better. And the most simple to take and bake the same composition on different programs, you see ..., expensive and boring. So I'm trying to "fish out" advice from members of the forum. But it's going so tight ...
I would be very glad to see your observations.

The proposed solution with the selection of programs is based only on the recipe time and eliminates the uncertainty in achieving a good result with rye bread.
The recipe is selected for quick kneading, rise in 60 minutes and baked goods in 1 hour 30 minutes.
The bread is capricious, and any deviation easily leads to marriage.
I'll post funny pictures of violations soon.

Vanya (if 28 is age), then you can forgive BUT, in general, it is correct to give recommendations when you understand the issue, and not "heard something somewhere." So here's a note: in Moulinex HBV you can only put baked goods for 1 hour 10 minutes. AFTER ANY BAKING, the bread maker MUST COOL (1 hour is recommended, but at least 15-20 minutes of intensive airing is enough) otherwise NO OTHER PROGRAM WILL START
And your recommendation "to quickly turn on for another 20 minutes of baking" from the area of ​​complete "garbage", which casts doubt on your other recommendations
And funny pictures are better to put in the HUMOR section

Vanya (if 28 is age), then you can forgive
....
And your recommendation "to quickly turn on for another 20 minutes of baking" from the area of ​​complete "garbage", which casts doubt on your other recommendations
And funny pictures are better to put in the HUMOR section

Keep your jargon for yourself. It is indecent to continue talking to you. A complaint to the moderator will not be superfluous.

[#17, 18, 20, 22]

I hope the Moderator reads "our correspondence" Answers #17, 18, 20, 22 and will understand that I have indicated to you that You're giving categorical recommendations on a question about which you have very vague ideas
And then take offense - do not be offended ...

[Tosha]

Here, Tosha, I also found a very interesting recommendation from fugaska (in the thanks section):

"here I have described all the programs of my kenwood:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mf&Itemid=89&topic=100.60
program 3 is preheated (rye, whole grain ...)
pure rye bread will hardly rise. if done entirely on kefir, preferably over-fermented, it will be slightly higher than on water ... very heavy rye ... "

You see, she bakes "heavy" dough, and not only rye, on program with preheating, and we have this program 9 (Borodino bread)
And by the ingredients, I also "caught" that mixtures with rye flour are better obtained on water (or water + kefir), but NOT on water + milk

[You're giving]

...
I pointed out to you that You're giving categorical recommendations on a question about which you have very vague ideas
And then take offense - do not be offended ...

Vaguely thinking about others is bad, apparently better than asking - how?
Is it possible to take offense at very smart ones? Sinful!
For them, although they did not ask, I will explain that the thermal blocking of the bread machine is bypassed with a piece of ice pressed against the zone of the temperature sensor, which allows you to quickly continue baking by adding time.

[Information for young scholars]

Information for young scholars:
The "thermal sensor zone" is often occupied by a bucket of bread, which is baked in a bread maker Did you look at the bread maker?
And everything is very hot around - the ice usually melts at such temperatures. Where is the water? Or we will recommend a plastic bag, which will also start to melt ...
I looked at the forum here ... You are giving out tips for ovens, for Panasonic, for Mulinex, and for Delonga.
What kind of stove do you have for personal use? Moderators recommend that you indicate this fact in your profile. Something you bashfully bypass this fact, and not only I asked.

the thermal blocking of the bread machine is bypassed with a piece of ice pressed against the temperature sensor zone, which allows you to quickly continue baking by adding time.

This is how much you need to love rye according to your recipe in order to climb into a hot stove with a piece of ice! A very "elegant" and "natural" solution to the problem.

Actually right here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9345.0 Krosh claims that she was able to add 20 minutes immediately after the end of the baking regime.

I haven't tried it myself, but I think there should be no problems with the inclusion of additional minutes of baking. The limitation should apply to modes that start at room temperatures and, of course, require the stove to cool down.

[did not advise trying]

I haven't tried it myself, but I think there should be no problems with the inclusion of additional minutes of baking.The limitation should apply to modes that start at room temperatures and, of course, require the stove to cool down.

And I would did not advise trying, cm... page 8 Guide to HP. It says: "Program 14 (baking) can be used
a) in combination with pr 13 (dough)
b) to warm up and get a crispy crust in already baked and CHILLED bread
c) to complete the preparation of bread in case long power outage with a cycle of baking bread
All of the above assumes that at the start of program 14, the contents are "cold" (in any case, not "hot-hot")
And the programmed electronics for temperatures is a capricious thing, and the "advice with ice" is very hypothetical.
But Krosh is an experienced baker and a delicate person. Maybe she liked the recipe, but the technology ...
According to my personal "baking experiments", if the content of rye flour in the dough exceeds 50%, then it is better to use Pr9 (Borodino bread) on my stove, just do not forget to press START again after 30 minutes of HP operation. The duration of the cycle is 3 hours 50 minutes and such "exotic" is not needed (different programs, until the end, not until the end, blocking the temperature sensor - in general, the song for the stove is swan)

Peace be with you bakers!
Мruklik Sent: Today at 13:10:03

And the most simple to take and bake the same composition on different programs, you see ..., expensive and boring. So I'm trying to "fish out" advice from members of the forum. But it's going so tight ...

NO COMMENT!

I baked a gingerbread on program 10 (cupcake) and immediately after the end I held down the power button for a longer time and turned on the baking program - everything worked out!

[did not advise trying]

And I would did not advise trying, cm... page 8 Guide to HP.
...
All of the above assumes that at the start of program 14, the contents are "cold" (in any case, not "hot-hot")

To use or not to use undocumented opportunities is everyone's personal business. The bottom line is that it is technically possible to extend the baking regime.
Unlike all other modes that simply will not turn on when the stove is hot. Simply because the kneading and proofing of the dough at such temperatures does not pass, and not because the temperature sensors are a capricious thing.

[for yourself]

To use or not to use undocumented opportunities is everyone's personal business.

Well, no one argues with that. To break or not to break your stove - everyone decides for himself

and not because temperature sensors are a capricious thing.

Read more carefully, I wrote "programmed electronics for temperatures is a capricious thing." The baking is not controlled by a thermal sensor, but its readings are processed when controlling the baking process. And the baking process itself was "conceived" so that at the beginning there was room temperature. What is written in the "documented features"

Peace be with you bakers!
NO COMMENT!

Let's say I am interested in 10 recipes that can be baked in 5 programs. That is, I need to carry out 50 experimental baked goods (it would not hurt to get some money either), and I will discard some of the results as unsuitable for food. I bake 1-2 times a week. It turns out that somewhere in six months or a year for yourself I will get answers.
Do you think I need your forum then? And other members of the forum, what are they doing here then? Explain what "NO COMMENT" means I promise, I will leave as soon as you find my actions unacceptable

And the baking process itself was "conceived" so that at the beginning there was room temperature.

The fact that electronics is designed to start the baking process at room temperatures is not true, as practice shows. In this case, the electronics do not care at what temperature to start.

Yes, and a priori this is not the case, otherwise it was not possible to discretely extend the mode for 10 minutes.

There is simply a certain limit to the continuous operation of the stove at high temperatures. In moulinex, it is 70 minutes. It was laid down by the manufacturer, and it is not blocked by hardware, but is stipulated only in the instructions for the purpose of safety net, so that the stove is not driven indefinitely.Why exactly 70? Most likely based on some calculations for the heat dissipation of this model, multiplied by a reliability factor of 2, or even more.

[my goal]

The fact that electronics is designed to start the baking process at room temperatures is not true, as practice shows.

Not the topic, but by the way. Long ago, I had a friend who used his computer by putting a system unit (tower) on
side, otherwise it would not enter the niche under the table. He regularly complained about "bad" hard drive manufacturers. And my first computer (about 1994) is still operational
And one of the "Murphy's laws" says: if you repeatedly turn on the device, and you can't do it, finally read the instructions.

There is simply a certain limit to the continuous operation of the stove at high temperatures. In moulinex, it is 70 minutes. It was laid down by the manufacturer, and it is not blocked by hardware, but is stipulated only in the instructions for the purpose of safety net, so that the stove is not driven indefinitely. Why exactly 70? Most likely based on some calculations for the heat dissipation of this model, multiplied by a reliability factor of 2, or even more.

Here I am about the same, "there is ... the limit of continuous operation of the stove at high temperatures. In the mulinex it is 70 minutes. It was laid down by the manufacturer." As for interlocks, sometimes they are called "foolproof", their presence, as a rule, leads to an increase in the price of the device, and our market is not filled with "rich people". And a high reliability factor can hardly be expected for the same reason (price). And the final manufacturer for many is not France.

therefore my goal (in this section) invite members of the forum:
1. Use your HP "in full", within the framework of the manufacturer's guidelines. Do not be limited to one or two programs if the manufacturer has 14.
2. Give advice and recommendations obtained ONLY from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE or cite the source (this is for Vanya28)
3. And, of course, get an answer to your questions:
a) How does the kneading affect the dough of different compositions?
b) How does the duration of heating before baking affect the dough of different compositions? Well, does anyone know anything about this ??? !!! Respond !!! Ouch !!!

[cite the source]

And one of the "Murphy's laws" says: if you repeatedly turn on the device, and you can't do it, finally read the instructions.

Here, a little the opposite: it works if you do not read the instructions.

As for interlocks, sometimes they are called "foolproof", their presence usually leads to an increase in the cost of the device

This did not stop the manufacturer's other 13 modes ...

2. Give advice and recommendations obtained ONLY from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE or cite the source (this is for Vanya28)

By the way, in his topic about rye, Vanya28 refers to the original source - Kroshu.

Mruklik, it's nice when a person comes here and asks for specific help, and does not come out and talk about nothing,
"...
3. And, of course, get answers to your questions:
a) how does the kneading affect the dough of different compositions?
b) how does the duration of heating before baking affect the dough of different compositions?".
What formulations? What test? You look and pull for scientific work.

To study the material base (bread maker), you can go and ask for help here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=2383.0 ,
and also here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=2446.0
the people there are responsive and the answer has already been prepared for you.
Choose the recipe you want to eat. Write a question if you don't know how to bake it or if it didn't work out. This will be specific and you will be helped here.

[In our post]

This did not stop the manufacturer's other 13 modes ...

By the way, in his topic about rye, Vanya28 refers to the original source - Kroshu.

I don’t want to think that continuing the argument, you simply don’t want to leave me the right to know the technology and its operation, not worse than yours. ;) You understand perfectly well that "In the remaining 13 modes, the" manufacturer "saves" a mechanism that is more significant for HP, and not a burnt-out bucket, which often gets criticism from some members of the forum. And to discuss whether the manufacturer did (or did not) without the manufacturer's data and without taking into account his own recommendations for use, in my opinion, is a "dead" number.

And I also have one quality, probably from your point of view, that I should not have, I read and analyze what I read, relying on my existing professional experience and knowledge.
As for Vanya28:
Vanya28 approached the Moderators with a request to change the original message. Krosh praised him for the recipe and answered him at # 53 (which initial message is unknown), a link to Krosh appeared in the editorial office on the 25th. That is, this entire post is "strange, to put it mildly," since it is not clear what is being discussed, if the subject of discussion has been changed during the process or at the end of it.
In our post, as can be seen from the first message, the person "did not get acquainted" with the instructions and "got screwed" (from the author). Therefore, it seemed to me important to share with the members of the forum my personal observations of HP of a particular type and try to find out interesting questions for me.
When Vanya28 appeared in the discussion (See Answers 17 and 20), I tried to find out what Vanya28 can say about the operation of a specific HP. And it became obvious that he did not see KP, but he gave advice to the right and left, and did not answer direct questions asked to him
And, for your information, I always, if I enter into a discussion, it is only after I have read the entire post, and not as a reaction to the last read

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik - I promise I will leave as soon as you find my actions unacceptable

excuse me, who is driving you, sir
you offered to discuss a specific stove in the context of the selection of optimal programs, well, that's a great thing
it's just not clear what you are trying to achieve:
you ask you answer you disagree and ask again
you asked about rye, I answered you how I bake it on this model x \ n you were not satisfied that this is not one program but dough = dough-
baked goods and my recipe did not give you
that's not even the point
you complained about my average recipe and that my task is to feed my family and you seem to be tormented by the torment of creativity
now quoting you

Let's say I am interested in 10 recipes that can be baked in 5 programs. That is, I need to carry out 50 experimental baked goods (it would not hurt to get some money either), and I will discard some of the results as unsuitable for food. I bake 1-2 times a week. It turns out that in about six months or a year I will receive answers for myself.
Do you think I need your forum then? And other members of the forum, what are they doing here then?

so I spent 50 baked goods \ and spent some money \ and somewhere through
for a certain time I GOT ANSWERS FOR MYSELF and I post it for everyone to see because they have been verified PERSONALLY BY ME
and believe me this is what most members of the forum do
THIS IS FOR THIS WE NEED OUR FORUM
do you need it, decide for yourself

You perfectly understand that "In the remaining 13 modes, the manufacturer" saves "a more significant mechanism for HP, and not a burnt-out bucket,

He saves the dough, not a mechanism or a bucket. Dough! And from the technical point of view - if the locking algorithm is built into the microprogram, then how many modes to use it in is not a question of the cost of the mechanism.
And I am not competing with you in the knowledge of technology. I'm trying to explain to you from the point of view of common sense.

And I also have one quality, probably from your point of view, that I should not have, I read and analyze what I read, relying on my existing professional experience and knowledge.
As for Vanya28:
Vanya28 approached the Moderators with a request to change the original message. Krosh praised him for the recipe and answered him at # 53 (which initial message is unknown), a link to Krosh appeared in the editorial office on the 25th. That is, this whole post is "strange to say the least", because.it is not clear what is being discussed, if in the process or after its completion the subject of discussion was changed.

Why is there not unknown? If you are so professionally digging into the chronology of posts, you might notice on the same page the previous one from Kroshi https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9345.0.
And how does all this mess with posts affect the fact that the combination of modes proposed by Vanya28 in the original post is not speculative, but tested by Krosh on April 23?

But you, as already noted by shade, stubbornly reject the proposed solutions, trying to lead others to some reasoning and generalizations that suit you and confirm your conclusions.
You are asking about different types of dough in the section "Moulinex operation" - it would probably be more logical to find out about this in the sections "Baking Basics", "Dough", "Yeast Bread". In particular, there are many publications from Admin.
It is more logical to discuss the modes of a specific bread machine here. But no one dares to draw generalizing conclusions with the linking of various types of test to the Mulinex programs. Perhaps because for different types of flour and water, these patterns can change. The previous discussion in the topic proves this: shade, Toshi and you have the same bread better at different modes. Again, another subjective factor is a person's assessment: everyone likes different bread, who is wetter, who is drier, who is denser, who is more porous. This is not modeling, but life - there are too many parameters, the influence of which cannot be excluded, or they must be included in the model and mathematically processed.
And if you are interested, then take the primary data from the forum and, relying on your professional experience and knowledge, draw conclusions yourself.

[Shade!]

Shade!
At first, in your PERSONAL experience I I don't doubt a bit, and I look closely at your advice and listen, that's why I came to your section (it seemed to me that you were a Moderator).
I questioned my personal experience and knowledge of the subject on which he gives advice, Vanya28, which I told him about, but probably due to my own emotionality (there is such a "sin", I confess) I was dragged into a useless and out of topic discussion between me, Vanya28 and vi_kon.
Secondly, as you correctly noted, I am interested in the optimal selection of programs for a specific HP model, but, perhaps it is my fault, I formulated my question not in the traditional form for the forum (or for your expectations). I ask you to forgive me and give "one last try" to formulate it differently.

As a result of my baking (recipes are simple with a small amount of ingredients without improvers, acidifiers, etc., I weigh the components on a scale, and where ml and spoons, I use a measuring cup and spoon) I noticed, what
(observation conditions: 1000 g, light crust, observed recipe does not change)
Observation1... Bread made from wheat (1000%) flour (with or without additives did not affect the result) turns out well on Pr1 and Pr2, but here everything is tanned and 1-2mm thicker, the top (roof), and the crumb is slightly denser. I didn't bake on other programs.
Observation2 Bread from wheat flour with ready-made mixtures "Solare" and "11 grains" (80% + 20%), that is, each bread used one mixture in the specified ratio with flour. The result is the same as Observation1.
Observation3... Bread from wheat flour with ready-made mixture "Borodino" on Pr1 is nothing, but not high, about 2/3 of wheat, and on Pr2 it is very bad, practically did not rise and "remained twisted".
Observation4... Darnitsky (from fugaska) - rye-wheat (40% + 60%) baked on Pr1 and Pr9. On Pr9 it is better a little higher and, as it were, "fluffier", the roof is flat here and there
Observation5... Buckwheat-wheat (from fugaska) - (18% + 82%) baked on Pr3 and Pr8. On Pr8 I liked it more - higher, the roof is flat here and there. And on Pr8 I tried a full cycle and a cycle with the mixers removed immediately after the main batch (imitation without kneading). No difference.
Observation6 (still thinking). She baked bread according to the recipes from the book from page 70 Rye (50 to 50%) on Pr9 and from page 84 Bread with grains (took 50 to 50 rye and wheat) on Pr8.Both loaves are high, almost for the entire container, only the roof is flat. I chose the programs as recommended in the book. I wonder if you change programs

Pekla Borodinsky according to the recipe and technology Pr9, as in the book on page 68, it looks like on "successful" photos of members of the forum, only the roof is flat, but I really like the taste. This bread is "almost festive"

Please continue the list by including your observations, if possible, NOT considering programs 5, 10, 11 and 12

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik
I've been baking cornbread for several times already \ somewhere on the forum I wrote about it and posted pictures \ he does not want to turn out porous high and fried - no, all of the above is present separately, but what would be together
I read all the topics about this I asked for advice from specialists I tried
change the ratio of products BUT AT LEAST SHOOT
I tried to go the other way, I just stupidly baked in turn on ALL PROGRAMS, so what do you think how the scoundrel crumbled and crumbled \ as here without emotions \
but people bake and eat by both cheeks and here

so I process vi_kon

no one risks making generalizing conclusions with the connection of various types of test to Mulinex programs. Perhaps because for different types of flour and water, these patterns can change.

about wheat I completely agree with you 1 and 2 programs \ I have more than 1 \ although in my opinion PAKAT wrote somewhere that he and wheat bake dough + pastries --- you have to try what happens
I don't use mixtures on this off topic
about rye
Borodinsky on the program is also good, but unfortunately in my family
he, as well, and custard is not in use therefore I bake extremely rarely
of course you can bake rye \ 50-50 \ and for 9 and 2 and for 3 it goes well, but you must agree that taste is important here, therefore, from observations I learned that rye without the presence of components like that
malt molasses sourdough leavened wort, etc. it is not worth baking translation of products

and the most important observation

if you want to make yeast dough and you don't have yeast
then you will not succeed

[mutual understanding is achieved]

Well, "the light dawned at the end of the tunnel" and mutual understanding is achieved. Thank you very much for your "observations" on cornbread... I haven't baked corn yet, but I'm going to. I will definitely familiarize myself with your recipe and compare it with mine before selecting the "initial" program.

As for the statement “to get bread, you need to: knead the dough, let it stand, and then bake it” Who can argue with that ?! But the site is called a bread maker (not a bakerNIE), and there are people (myself, for example) who believe that this is where you can find recommendations, how best to entrust such a "delicate" process to the "bread machineequipped with specially created programs "(and not other devices for baking),

and the vi_kon statement:
"Nobody risks drawing general conclusions with the linking of various types of test to Mulinex programs" I and DO NOT ask for "conclusions on the test with reference to programs", I ask you to tell about the "observations" that you noticed if you baked the same recipe on different programs.

The recipe can be omitted, just refer to the forum if the recipe was given there or is similar.

I ask other members of the forum who are interested to share their observations about baking bread in the HP (according to the same recipe) on different programs.

[Vi_kon]

Vi_kon, during "our debate" nevertheless the question remained unresolved, which, I think, needs to be summed up (after all, we argued in the Operation section, and my goal, I hope I'm not alone, is to keep my HP working for a longer time).

Namely, "whether or not the baking process can be extended using Pr14» ?

Your opinion
(based on IMHO and practical actions of some members of the forum (Tosha, Krosh, Panevg1943)
– «Yes, you can. Stove performance will not be affected»

My opinion
(based on a visit to the site moulinex.com (in this question, I believe that this is the "primary source")
with a question (I will quote it verbatim): “In the OW 5004 CP in program 14 (baking) the baking time is set to no more than 70 minutes, is it possible to extend the baking time?) Answer (also verbatim):“ Good afternoon, Victoria. Program 14 times may vary "exclusively from 10 to 70 minutes ", you cannot change the software settings yourself.

and provisions of the manual to CP). I will give these provisions:
P. 8 "Ex 14 ... can be used in conjunction with the yeast dough program ... to end bread baking in the event of a prolonged power interruption during the bread baking cycle." From yourself: Please note that all cycles in the baking section do not exceed 1 hour 20 minutes (pages 12-13)
P. 14 "If two programs are to be run in succession, wait 1 hour before starting the second operation"
P. 18 "... in case of improper use of the bread maker, the manufacturer is released from liability and the warranty is canceled"
Therefore, I say
- «No you can not. The stove's performance may suffer, and you can get "problems" with the repair if the stove is under warranty»

Peace is friendship! Let the members of the forum decide for themselves. As the greats say: "Who owns information - owns the world"

Peace be with you bakers!
from observations
cake then baked a sweet bun \ sugar butter raisins chocolate \ and bursting he launched the first program and you know my bun was baked just a little more than on the sweet program
and further
I tried to add flour improver \ paterson \ into ordinary wheat, the difference did not taste or volume did not notice
but in rye there was a noticeable rise somewhere in half
yes, then I looked through the mixtures and noticed that proctically
all manufacturers advise to bake bread from these mixtures using the basic program, although their composition is different

Shade!
Interesting about the bun. And I thought that on Pr4 the baking temperature is higher than on Pr1. I always choose only a light crust, but the sweet is quite tanned. Although here I can sin on sugar, I "abuse" it
Even when baking mixed (not 100% wheat bakery premium) breads, I always try "without crumpling", that is, I take out the scapula immediately after the main batch

I still don't understand so what are OZ and CUP on these glasses? I'm very interested in the same: Who knows?

[My opinion]

My opinion
(based on a visit to the site moulinex.com (in this question, I believe that this is the "primary source")
with a question (I will quote it verbatim): “In the OW 5004 CP in program 14 (baking) the baking time is set to no more than 70 minutes, is it possible to extend the baking time?) Answer (also verbatim):“ Good afternoon, Victoria. Program 14 times may vary "exclusively from 10 to 70 minutes ", you cannot change the software settings yourself.

It is clear from her answer that she did not understand your question. It is really impossible to change the software settings. You cannot run the program for more than 70 minutes, and this limit cannot be changed in any way without getting into the program code, which is not available to us. This is the meaning of her answer.
However, you can restart the baking immediately. It is incorrect to say that this is "impossible" - for this you do not even need to somehow especially contrive, bypassing the protection built into the program for other modes. For example, fill a bread maker with ice.
However, this is a violation of the instructions and is likely to cause the stove to malfunction due to prolonged overheating. I think that a small margin of safety is still in place, but you should not drive the oven on baking, for example, for two hours in a row. In general, "taking risks", playing on the brink of a foul or not - everyone's personal business. Actually, this was postulated at the very beginning of the discussion.

From yourself: Please note that all cycles in the baking section do not exceed 1 hour 20 minutes (pages 12-13)

Horrible! That's 10 minutes more than 70! The manufacturer himself violates the limit laid down by him! He can, but we cannot.

In general, upon a closer reading of the instructions, the quotation from page 8 can be perceived rather as recommendations and explanations for beginners: what it might be needed for at all is the baking mode. Same as descriptions of other modes from page 7-8. You, if I am not mistaken, tried to bake rye bread on the 1st setting, although in the description of the setting on page 7 it is recommended only for wheat bread. Thus, violating the instructions. And mode 9 is exclusively for Borodinsky, and not for any rye.

As for the quote from page 14, here we are reliably protected by the manufacturer himself - where it is not necessary, the bread maker will not turn on by itself. And, as we discussed earlier, it does not protect the stove, but the food being pledged. And it means, most likely, two full cycle programs. If this phrase is taken literally, then it turns out that between the dough and baking modes, you also need to wait an additional hour?
And this phrase is written so that the user knows why, in fact, his stove suddenly refuses to go to the second round. And how long you have to wait for it to work again. Here, I remember, you, too, sometimes deviate from the instructions, reducing the cooling time by enhanced ventilation.

In general, observations show that no one, not even the best of us, literally follows the instruction.

For the sake of objectivity - the only phrase that calls for reasonable care is: "The baking program is designed for ONLY 10 to 70 minutes." But at the same time, in some modes, 80 can work. So this phrase can also be perceived more as informational, they say, after 70 minutes, no matter how much on +, do not squeeze anything else.

[CUP]

In different countries, different units are adopted, for example, in our country, distances are measured in meters and km, and in England, in feet and miles.
So, CUP (glass) and OZ(fluid ounce) is a measurement of liquids:
1 OZ = 23.4 ml
1 CUP = 236 ml
M. b. You will be wondering that
1 CUP = 16 Art. l. (measuring tablespoons)
1 tbsp. l. = 14.8 ml

Such a graduation (ml, CUP and OZ) of a measuring cup allows residents of different countries who have bought CP to navigate in the number of recipe components

The forum additionally reports that 1 CUP about corresponds to 150 g of wheat flour and 130 g of rye. it approximately, it is better to weigh bulk products on a scale

Forgive me for being tedious. Just such a detail as the mention of 80 minutes of baking in standard baking modes made me dig deeper into the question, what did the manufacturer mean by limiting the baking mode to 70 minutes?
I have already outlined my thoughts in the previous post. To confirm my reasoning, I will involve the same manufacturer.
As you know, along with the instructions, there is also a recipe book.
So, on page 98 in the recipe for making orange jam it says:
"Recommendations: if you have not found pectin on sale, you can
replace it with lemon juice (about 50 ml); this fruit is rich
pectin. In this case, we advise you when preparing
jam add an extra 40 minutes. "
So to 50 minutes of baking in the standard mode, jam can be safely added another 40 minutes, which in total is already as much as 90 and exceeds the limit of 70 minutes for exactly those 20 minutes for which Vanya 28 stands up and because of which, in fact, flared up such a fuss.

As a summary of the discussion: the baking program CANNOT be extended, it can be restarted by adding as many minutes to the total time as required.

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik - Even when baking mixed (not 100% wheat bakery premium) breads, I always try "without crumpling", that is, I take out the blades immediately after the main batch

well, you see, you yourself came to the so-called progromirovanie \ unfortunately in our x \ n no \ so why not dough-baking

vi_kon - the baking program CANNOT be extended, it can be started AGAIN by adding to the total time as many minutes as needed

you know what's interesting when I started using the baking program
I didn't even think about the fact that 70 minutes and after the break, you just have to do it
I looked if it was a little baked then stupidly added time and baked further
and only later when I got to the forum I read what I was doing wrong
turned gray I thought, well, what is wrong with bread is not baked so until now and I don’t bother baking as much in time as necessary

[I wrote: My opinion .....]

But you, as already noted by shade, stubbornly reject the proposed solutions, trying to lead others to some reasoning and generalizations that suit you and confirm your conclusions.

To whom can you now address your reproach?

I wrote: My opinion .....
What do you dispute that Your opinion MORE OPINIONthan mine? Are you referring to a cookbook?

Completeness! No my arguments in defense of my own opinion or yours in defense of my own opinions are not evidence of TRUE

ONLY DATA OF THE MANUFACTURER'S DESIGN DEPARTMENT may underlie consideration to obtain an objective opinionclaiming to be TRUE

If it is so important for you to protect Vanya28 (male solidarity?), Then I remind you once again: I did not argue with Vanya28 about extending the baking program. I pointed out Vanya28 that it is incorrect to give advice on HP if he does not know and does not use this HP... Or do you think that I am wrong, and Vanya28 bakes bread in the Moulinex 5004? Ha Ha Ha

[So, for the "purity of the experiment", what to choose]

well, you see, you yourself came to the so-called progromirovanie \ unfortunately in our x \ n no \ so why not dough-baking

Well, I think, I think. Do you still propose to bake "Borodinsky" according to your scheme 1-2-3 (or 1-2) and compare with the result of Pr9? Oh, it’s a pity for the products, but what if it’s worse, or don’t "hide" and risk

But I was, I wasn’t, I’ll try, but I’m afraid I can write about the result in 2-3 weeks, only today I baked "Borodinsky" on Pr9 But I took a picture of it with something to compare

So, for the "purity of the experiment", what to choose:
dough (kneading) + dough (full) + baked goods
or
dough (full) + baked goods?

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik no, not at all Borodinsky
I meant rye-wheat \ 50 x 50 + - \ so it can be compared
1 -3-9 pr \ 2 crust is thick \ with kneading-dough-baking
since rye loves a long kneading and a long rise, in this case we can leave the bread after the end of the program \ dough \ for a while
but the dough + baking is for wheat, in my opinion, it is more suitable, although I am completely satisfied with the main program

[Thank you shade! Spared a promise]

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik no, not at all Borodinsky

Thank you shade! Spared a promise, and then my inner voice would not let me sleep, kept repeating: "What are you, you fool, are you going to do? After all, Admin told you in a personal" The dough just needs to be able to feel !!!!!
You cannot put everything that has been verified to the gram and get bread.
The best rye bread is made in the oven. "
And I just "don't feel the rye dough," that is, I can't say with certainty whether it is kneaded well, whether it has risen enough, how much it needs to be baked, whether it is baked or not. That is why I still resist baking according to your scheme, I say that this scheme is ideal for experienced bakers, and the combination Pr13 (can be used several times) + Pr14 gives them the opportunity to choose their own duration of the main actions (kneading-proofing-baking) when baking of bread.
But it is difficult to spoil wheat. On the combination Pr13 (completely) + proofing for about 1 h + Pr14 (for 1 h) I bake "original bread" (it's just that I can't bake it otherwise), the technology "spied" on the recipe Red curl, but I do it with cocoa and sesame seeds. More suitable for tea, not for soup

[for a baker without serious experience in working with rye bread]

Since I believe that for a baker without serious experience in working with rye bread it's still better to use Pr9(Borodino bread). If a "good" recipe is chosen, then the process can be "automated" and rely on "program experience".
As a confirmation of what has been said, I want to demonstrate my own experience ("From the first - to yesterday").
The recipe is unchanged, in which only rye flour, brewed malt, water, apple cider vinegar, vegetable oil, sugar, salt, yeast and a little coriander. There was no gluten in the first, then I add 2 tsp to the flour. gluten free




I'm not fighting for a convex dome (there is a limit to everything). Me, my family and even my colleagues at work really like bread. In the recipe I use, this bread is called Borodinsky

I saw many similar recipes with different names (well, maybe without coriander), for which I was always recommended on the forum combination of dough + baking programs... And I believe that this combination suitable only for "venerable" bakers... And for beginners it can give more problems than "mistakes in recipe"

[I wrote: My opinion .....]

To whom can you now address your reproach?

I wrote: My opinion .....
What do you dispute that Your opinion MORE OPINIONthan mine? Are you referring to a cookbook?

Completeness! No my arguments in defense of my own opinion or yours in defense of my own opinions are not evidence of TRUE

ONLY DATA OF THE MANUFACTURER'S DESIGN DEPARTMENT may underlie consideration to obtain an objective opinionclaiming to be TRUE

If it is so important for you to protect Vanya28 (male solidarity?), Then I remind you once again: I did not argue with Vanya28 about extending the baking program. I pointed out Vanya28 that it is incorrect to give advice on HP if he does not know and use this HP... Or do you think that I am wrong, and Vanya28 bakes bread in the Moulinex 5004? Ha Ha Ha

Well, that is. I thought we had already passed the topic with Vanya28.
If you remember literally, then

2. Give advice and recommendations obtained ONLY from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE or cite the source (this is for Vanya28)

And Vanya28 is here:

Pure rye bread in Moulinex and Panasonic is easy to get with a combination of two programs.
We read here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9345.msg94252
For improvement, we write comments.

just gives a link to the original source - I crush, if you carefully read the post offered by him by hyperlink.

And why is there a war of the sexes at once? Maybe I like the name Vanya, or the number 28? In fact, I’m at least Vanya, even Tanya. He also blinked nonsense about ice - I didn't defend him and laughed myself. But in the matter of the selection of modes, you began to find fault with him due to the fact that he offered not your preferred 9 mode, but his own combination. And then it started: all these 70 minutes, the crusade against Vanya28 with the involvement of authorities (in the form of the Mulinex representation), calls in all branches to follow the instructions, etc.

I did not understand about the truth. Are you talking about my resume, or what? Come on, it's clear that this is my version, no more. On the other hand, you won't argue that the baking mode CAN be restarted? Technically it is possible, the word "forbidden" in the instructions to which you are referring, is not found explicitly anywhere either.
So my resume may well claim to be true.
Practice is the basis of knowledge, not the design department of Moulinex.

And if you think, really, how much wasted time!

[with this]

Here, with this "And if you think, really, how much time wasted!" I completely agree

I would like to add that there is also a dispute between the "deaf and the blind", since you and I "beat the pots" (distributed recommendations and backed them up with "arguments"), PUNISHING DIFFERENT GOALS.
I did not deny that it was possible to prolong the baking, but "decided to warn" that the use of such technology can affect the "longevity of the HP". After all, we are all different people, but m b. someone on the forum decides to constantly use this opportunity, yes with the duration ++++, especially since the often recommended scheme "dough + baking", just from "this opera"
So that, peace is friendship I apologize for the "boring"

I am almost ready to "formulate a thought" by redoing (in 2-3 days) the topic I opened in this section. Our "dispute" helped me to realize that they did not understand me in this formulation. Thanks for the science! Your opinion will be very interesting to me