Viki
Thank you kava for the information provided!

What is leaven

BREAD SQUARE, OR RYE SQUARE - a leaven based on lactic acid bacteria. Yeast and bread leaven (based on lactic acid bacteria) are used for the sourdough culture of flour products.
Historically, in everyday life, rye sourdough was prepared from the remnants of rye dough.
Fresh starter culture can be prepared either using cultures of various lactic acid bacteria, or by natural fermentation of rye flour in warm water with access to air (in which a certain amount of lactic acid bacteria is always present).

The sour taste of sourdough and bread based on it does not come from yeast, but from lactic acid bacteria with which yeast lives in symbiosis. Lactic acid bacteria feed on by-products of yeast fermentation and, in turn, make the culture more acidic by releasing lactic acid, which prevents the ferment from spoiling (since most microbes cannot survive in an acidic environment).
Initially, all bread was made with sourdough, and the fermentation process remained incomprehensible until the 19th century, when, using a microscope, scientists were able to detect microbes that make the dough rise. Since then, the selection and cultivation of yeast has been carried out in order to increase the reliability and speed of fermentation. Billions of these cells were then packaged and marketed as "Baker's Yeast." Bread made on the basis of such yeast is not sour, since it does not contain lactic acid bacteria. Bakers around the world quickly adopted this yeast as it made bread making easier and the bakery more flexible. In addition, the baking process became faster, allowing bakeries to bake fresh bread three times a day. While bakeries in Europe continued to bake sourdough bread, yeast was widely used in the United States to replace sourdough.

LACTIC BACTERIA - a group of microaerophilic gram-positive microorganisms that ferment carbohydrates with the formation of lactic acid as one of the main products. Lactic acid fermentation became known to people at the dawn of the development of civilization. Since then, it has been used at home and in the food industry to process and preserve food and beverages. Traditionally, lactic acid bacteria include immobile, non-spore-forming coccoid or rod-shaped representatives of the order Lactobacillales (for example, Lactococcus lactis or Lactobacillus acidophilus). This group includes bacteria that are used in the fermentation of dairy products, vegetables and meat (in sausage production). Lactic acid bacteria play an important role in the preparation of dough, wine, coffee, cocoa and silage. Despite their close relationship, pathogenic members of the order Lactobacillales (for example, Streptococcus pneumoniae pneumococci) are usually excluded from the group of lactic acid bacteria.

On the other hand, the distant relatives of Lactobacillales from the class of actinobacteria, bifidobacteria, are often considered in the same group with lactic acid bacteria. Some members of the aerobic spore-forming genera Bacillus (eg, Bacillus coagulans) and Sporolactobacillus (eg, Sporolactobacillus inulinus) are sometimes included in the lactic acid bacteria group due to their similarities in carbohydrate metabolism and their role in the food industry.

In nature, lactic acid bacteria are found on the surface of plants (for example, on leaves, fruits, vegetables, grains), in milk, external and internal epithelial integuments of humans, animals, birds, fish (for example, in the intestines, vagina, on the skin, in the mouth, nose and eyes).Thus, in addition to their role in the production of food and feed, lactic acid bacteria play an important role in wildlife, agriculture and normal human life. The impact of the accelerated industrialization of lactic acid bacteria production, based on a small number of plant-adapted strains, on the natural diversity of these bacteria and human health remains unexplored.

VIEWS
One of the most common types of lactic acid bacteria is Streptococcus lactis. This is a mobile stick that does not form spores, is well stained with aniline dyes and according to Gram, in a young form it has the form of a streptococcus. On meat-peptone agar, it gives dotted round colonies, in the thickness of the agar - lenticular. S. Lactis decomposes sugar without the formation of gases into two molecules of lactic acid. The most favorable temperature for development is + 30-35 ° С.

Lactic acid streptococcus is constantly found in spontaneously sour milk. This bacterium tends to clot milk within the first 24 hours. When the lactic acid content reaches 6-7 g per liter, sugar fermentation stops, since higher acidity has a detrimental effect on streptococcus lactic acid.
Information taken from the site 🔗Bread_leaven

The use of sourdough in the production of bread improves the quality of bread made from rye flour: the volumetric yield of bread increases, the dimensional stability of hearth products increases, the structure of porosity is improved, the stickiness and crumbling of the crumb of rye flour is reduced, and the stale process slows down.
It is important to use the highest quality products for both the leaven and the bread itself. Wheat flour should be 100% whole grain, organically grown wheat, cold milled. The absence of chemicals in wheat and milling without heating ensures that all the necessary enzymes remain in the flour.

Flour should not be placed in the freezer as this destroys the enzymes it contains. In addition, this does not in any way eliminate the need to sift flour - it must still be sieved, even if there are no pests in it, because sifting enriches the flour with oxygen. In addition, both when making sourdough and when kneading bread, flour and water should be warm, slightly warmer than room temperature. The water should be neither chlorinated nor fluorinated.
Bread made with natural sourdough should be quite heavy and slightly sour, it should not be too airy or too sour - if so, then the amount of sourdough and fermentation time should be reduced. Too sour bread is harmful, it contains too much acetic acid. The crust of good bread is usually quite hard, and the smell is strong - pleasant and fragrant.
Information taken from the site 🔗

Starter - culinary designation of various fermentation stimulants used to prepare raw food products for further culinary processing. Starter cultures are used to ferment milk in order to obtain a variety of fermented milk products from yogurt to cheese, to speed up the rise of dough (for bread, pies, bakery products), in the production of drinks (kvass, beer, kumiss) and real jelly (oat, rye, pea) and some flour soups (zhur).
A variety of organic substances containing fungi or enzymes are used as starter cultures.
In a narrower sense, a leaven is any organic substance, the introduction of which into the food environment causes the fermentation process. In this sense, in culinary practice, wine vinegar, dry sour grape wine, beer used for a quick but fragile and short-term effect on the food environment, a separate dish are also referred to as leavens.

For fermentation of flour products are used:
1) yeast;
2) malt (maltose);
3) self-souring rye sourdough from the dough remnants in a fermentor, which has stood for a day;
4) sapwood (inner tender part) of the bark of some trees - willow, alder.

Bakers in Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean baked sourdough bread thousands of years before yeast was produced industrially.
Previously, bread was made with dough - from flour, water and a small amount of sugar, which makes it rise faster. This mixture absorbed the wild yeast naturally present in the air, and after a few days began to ferment. It was thanks to this fermentation that the characteristic sour taste appeared in the bread.
In baking, the leaven can be the dough left over from the previous bread preparation. If instead of yeast, you take a piece of such a leaven and put the dough on it, then the bread turns out to be more sour than with yeast.
Information taken from the site
Sparkle
Viki, thanks!
And tell me, please, sourdough bread is always sour? Everything is fine with rye, sourness is necessary there, but what about wheat? How can you achieve its absence when baking wheat bread only with sourdough? Or will you have to get used to it if you don't want to use yeast?
So far I have used only eternal rye (20g I feed with wheat flour). I tried to regulate the sourness with the amount of sourdough relative to the flour, I did not notice much difference in taste, only in the speed of the bread approach.
Or is it necessary to bake wheat on wheat sourdough? Or will the sourness still be due to lactic acid bacteria?
Viki
Sparkle, wheat bread with sourdough - both science and art, but ... everything depends only on the leaven. It is not very difficult to grow wheat sourdough so that it is not sour and at the same time strong, but it is very difficult to maintain it. Alas ... in order not to allow peroxide and to maintain its strength, I had to feed it three times a day and keep it at room temperature. She even went to work with me once. But by setting a goal, you can achieve a result. In this regard, I like the French sourdough. It is neither sour, but strong enough to produce high quality bread.
Sparkle
Viki, thanks! That is, other things being equal (well, figuratively, speaking), a Frenchwoman will give less sour bread than eternal wheat?
Viki
Quote: Sparkle

... all other things being equal (well, figuratively, speaking), a Frenchwoman will give less sour bread than an eternal wheat?
My Frenchwoman is always not sour and strong, and I never liked wheat eternal for pure wheat, I liked wheat-rye. You see, this is exclusively from my experience and for my taste. Try it. Or a Frenchwoman, or a raisin (the grape-leavening season is a pity over).
Eternal wheat can also be negotiated. It can be deoxidized. But this is "dancing with a tambourine" for a couple of days. How is it stored?
Sparkle
Viki, so in fact almost everything suits someone's taste .. And our business is to try and understand whether it suits our taste. Someone is delighted with wheat on the eternal, we do not like it, it happens! You like a Frenchwoman, so let's try a Frenchwoman, maybe we'll like it too! Thank you!

And with the eternal "dance" you will have to constantly or can you dance once and then it will be fine?

Now I don't keep it in any way, I put it all into action for the second time, only pure rye remained (I bake pure rye from it once every 1-2 days). But before the frost they stood on the windowsill (about 13-16 degrees) and fed 1-2 times a day for 5-10 g of sourdough, respectively 5-10 g of flour and 5-10 g of water. And now on the windowsill they can freeze, so I moved them to the refrigerator, I have 10-11 degrees there, if the thermometers don't lie.
Vissariosha
Quote: Sparkle

Viki, thanks!
And tell me, please, sourdough bread is always sour? Everything is fine with rye, sourness is necessary there, but what about wheat? How can you achieve its absence when baking wheat bread only with sourdough? Or will you have to get used to it if you don't want to use yeast?
So far I have used only eternal rye (20g I feed with wheat flour). I tried to regulate the sourness with the amount of sourdough relative to the flour, I did not notice much difference in taste, only in the speed of the bread approach.
Or is it necessary to bake wheat on wheat sourdough? Or will the sourness still be due to lactic acid bacteria?
I made Luca's sourdough starter with whole wheat flour. Basically I feed it with Baysad wheat flour of the highest grade. The sourdough is white, the pastries from it are amazing, without any sourness. I feed them once a day, sometimes less often. Stored in the refrigerator.
Yaneska
I found this topic, because I am looking for the taste of rye bread that I need and, in principle, I thought "but not bake sourdough bread like grandmothers used to bake." I read various forums and threads. But first of all I asked my mother, a chemist-technologist (food industry): is it really so harmful to live pressed yeast (I bake it) and how does the "grandmother's" sourdough work? So here: all leavencontaining flour, work thanks to the same YEAST, but only a mixture of flour with liquid takes them, roughly explained, "from the air." It's just that yeast where you buy a lot, especially in the villages (well, if you dig further, it didn't exist at all). And so the principle of action of yeast and sourdough is the same. There is less yeast in the starter, the process is slower, so the dough rise time is longer.
I don't want to offend anyone, but after reading the first post, you might think that there is no yeast in rye sourdough at all, and this is fundamentally not true. I met a link somewhere, I give it here 🔗 , a very correct article, in principle, as my mother told me - I believe her not just as a close person, but also as a person with higher education on this topic, so to speak.
Personally, I will also try to make a sourdough, but not because someone considers live yeast harmful, but because sourdough bread may (judging by some reviews) have a slightly different taste. So I'll check it out.
I wish you all good bread and store yeast and sourdough!
tvfg

On yeast, mold affects sourdough bread No
Admin
Quote: tvfg

On yeast, mold affects sourdough bread No

Amazing, and how! Bread, a perishable product, with a shelf life of 12 hours, and then begins to dry out.
And much depends on the storage conditions of the bread, the state of the flour, the quality of the flour and other ingredients.
Platinum
No, not amazing. Sourdough yeast perishes during baking, apparently. For 5 weeks now I have been baking on raisin sourdough, the bread is not sour, tasty and DOES NOT MOLD! Previously, the smell of mold appeared in the bread bin overnight, now they have forgotten this problem.
And the leavening yeast perishes if the flour is processed by something, but not from the packet, they don't care, they live in any conditions, they bloom with a violent color even after baking.
VideoAlex
Quote: Yaneska

I found this topic, because I am looking for the taste of rye bread that I need and, in principle, I thought "but not bake sourdough bread like grandmothers used to bake." I read various forums and threads. But first of all I asked my mother, a chemist-technologist (food industry): is it really so harmful to live pressed yeast (I bake it) and how does the "grandmother's" sourdough work? So here: all leavencontaining flour, work thanks to the same YEAST, but only a mixture of flour with liquid takes them, roughly explained, "from the air." It's just that before yeast, where you buy a lot, especially in the villages (well, if you dig even further, it didn't exist at all). And so the principle of action of yeast and sourdough is the same. There is less yeast in the starter, the process is slower, so the dough rise time is longer.
I don't want to offend anyone, but after reading the first post, you might think that there is no yeast in rye sourdough at all, and this is fundamentally not true. I met a link somewhere, I give it here 🔗 , a very correct article, in principle, as my mother told me - I believe her not just as a close person, but also as a person with higher education on this topic, so to speak.
Personally, I will also try to make a sourdough, but not because someone considers live yeast harmful, but because sourdough bread may (judging by some reviews) have a slightly different taste. So I'll check it out.
I wish you all good bread and store yeast and sourdough!
I think the article under the link is custom-made and protects exclusively the interests of manufacturers, but people, as always, do not care.
Those who ate without yeast bread will understand what I'm talking about.
amigas
Quote: Yaneska
🔗

Thank you so much for the article! For a long time I have been fighting on the Internet with these newly-minted fighters against baker's yeast and now there will be something to stop their mouths!

I don’t know what the article seemed to the previous commentator to order, but personally I saw a competent analysis of the situation, the opinion of real experts in this area, and not the rabid stories of saints and imaginary professors ala Zhdanov, who actually sell dietary supplements from Novosibirsk (I have nothing against Zhdanov , but how he presents most of the questions I do not like - sheer profanation, designed for gullible people).

I myself studied this issue a little and came to similar conclusions a little earlier than I came across your link, but this material is useful because it contains specific sources, the opinion of experts, if opponents have distrust, then there is always where to send them, even if study the matter.
links to Wikipedia on the topic can be found:
🔗

🔗

P.S. I myself make bread using Sourdoughs of arbitrary fermentation, because at one time I was scared of yeast and liked the video where people made bread themselves and I think their homemade bread is OBVIOUSLY healthier than store bought bread, but not because of the danger of cancer from baker's yeast, but because of numerous harmful additives and preservatives. Yours is always more useful!

These people could advertise sourdough bread with other arguments than scaring people with cancer!
tigrotigr
You don't get cancer from yeast. It's just that yeast promotes the growth of cancer cells when the disease has already begun. That's all. Sourdough bread is healthier because it uses live natural yeast, not artificially grown yeast. And then everyone decides for himself what is better or more convenient for him to eat. I decided to try baking sourdough bread, we often eat white bread, although we love black bread very much. What simple, but tasty sourdoughs would you recommend? Simple - in terms of the fact that I do not want to depend on feedings 3 times a day, like some people, and I am not very good at chemistry.
maks592
it's not that artificially expressed or natural yeast. The fact is that the yeast itself is the same, but the "impurities" in them are different.
Here is moonshine and whiskey ... the yeast is the same ... and the result! not just from grade to grade! from person to person is different! and alcohol-vodka and moonshine? berry yeast, bread yeast, etc. the point is in the enzymes-impurities. that's a different result. again, lactic acid bacteria are NOT yeast FUNGI.
Read an article in the AIF about how vodka ruined bread wine. On the one hand, it has nothing to do with bread, but on the other hand, the principle is the same!
ludmilka
Yaneska, Hello! I found "Baker's Yeast Production Technology". Here's a link 🔗... Look at this work - this is a technology used in all yeast production. I would like you to read what yeast is made of. I wish you all the best and, of course, a healthy diet.
Katy1985
My husband wants me to start baking bread with sourdough, he says that he is already tired of bread with yeast, and I am so reluctant to bother with making sourdough, and even not the fact that the bread will turn out
tvfg
What about your enzymes instead of sourdough?


Added Saturday 04 Jun 2016 7:51 pm

Viki
Quote: tvfg
What about your enzymes instead of sourdough?
Fine! We have been baking here with these enzymes for the second year already. See this thread:
Liquid yeast based on fruits, vegetables, herbs, tea ...
loretta0382
Girls, I'm new here, help me. French traditional. I reread it, but I don’t fully understand. I have the final stage in the refrigerator. What to do next. I take it out of the fridge and how to feed it. Once a day ? If I have now let's say 500 gr. I need to feed 500 plus 500 flour and 275 water. Everyday? I don't want to lose anything. She lives, I think, not in the refrigerator. And after feeding, do we put everything in the refrigerator? How much. Explain. And how much after feeding can the starter be used for baking. I feel like a tree. I wrote in three branches, maybe they will answer somewhere.
Admin
loretta0382, there is no need to ask the same question on all topics at once - this is not welcome on the forum.
It is enough to do this in one topic - they will hear and help you

Today is Saturday morning, people are not all gathered at the forum

And work with this topic, read it carefully again and again, and ask your questions there. French traditional sourdough (thick)
Asbest
And in winter, you can grow wheat for sourdough on the windowsills?
Admin
Quote: tupoi_hleb

Tell me ... Can you get drunk from such bread?

Why would it be? What is causing this? what confuses?
kondarik
I registered on this forum to delve into the technology of baking bread. And so I read about leavens and sometimes my hair moves.

Let me put in my five cents too, as I understand something in biology. The so-called yeast-free bread, of course, is not. Yeast-free is pita bread, other flat cakes or confectionery products on baking powder. There is of course wild yeast in the sourdough. You can’t say that they are healthier, you can already talk about the fact that they give a different taste. Baker's yeast is perhaps the most studied microorganism, its DNA was the first to be sequenced among eukaryotes. Cultured yeast is naturally used on an industrial scale. They give stable results, are well studied and obtained in laboratories for specific purposes. Wild yeast is not as effective but is generally safe.

In addition to CO2 and alcohol, the products of yeast metabolism are not yet so safe substances. For example fusel oils, although they are a component of the aroma of bread. Therefore, I personally would not argue that bread with wild yeast is healthier, everything can be exactly the opposite. Bread that does not grow moldy, I would doubt it. It is not normal for a product to not mold under the conditions required. Although most likely there are just prejudices that sourdough bread does not grow moldy. If conditions are created, then it will be covered with greenery.

I will hasten to please everyone. Yeast does not cause cancer and does not help this disease, for no reason. I read that the metabolic products of candida yeast are carcinogenic, but there were no references to studies. And this kind of yeast is far from grain production. There is no reason or research to think that bread yeast and cancer are somehow related.
Evgeny Elena
Hello people. I read the messages and decided to register - he already understands ... for 8 years we have already been engaged in sourdough bread. The sourdough is stored in the refrigerator - it must be restarted at least once every two weeks. This is for those who are afraid to contain her. To clarify - pure rye sourdough initially. On its basis I bake both rye-wheat and barley !!! and in general any. There was never any yeast. I agree that there are natural yeasts that die during the baking process, but! BREAD DOESN'T MOLD !!! From the word does not grow moldy at all. Ripe in a linen towel, wrapped it in cling film and that's it, dosvidos. At least a month, it becomes coarser, but even more interesting. Believe it or not. The other day here suddenly, after 10 days, I began to detect a fungus ... I was upset to the point of horror, I thought the leaven had deteriorated. Nothing, they washed all the towels, roasted the slab in the oven and that's it, hello non-perishable bread again ... it's me who writes here that anyway the bread goes bad. DOES NOT PORT! Maybe it will last until the fungus, but it already needs to be put for a long time. And crackers are generally eternal. They have been standing on the balcony for several years, sometimes they go to kvass. Without any air caps ... Put this bread in the bread bin with other breads, it will start suppressing the fungus. We saw that too.I don't fully understand microbiology, but I think everyone develops their own strain of lactic acid bacteria, which works in their own way ...




And I will add, since such a dance has gone. No matter how many messages I read, I have my own technology. The sourdough, as I said, is kept in the refrigerator. It is necessary to make sure that it does not freeze, then you will have to revive it, and so that it does not bubble up - it is fraught, when you open the bank it can simply explode, in the sense that the leaven will scatter, in short, the temperature is chosen carefully. I put the bread exclusively on whey - as I understand it, this is a good environment for bacteria, well, in fact, bread is better than water. Our own serum - in parallel we make cottage cheese. We dilute from the refrigerator and set for 12-14 hours. I call this thing "kvashnya", I don't know if it's right or wrong. Then I pour 700 grams into the refrigerator, the rest for bread (as a result, with 700 g of the initial leaven, I get about 3.3 kg of bread). The second time I put it on the whey again exactly for 4 hours, well, you can add up to 1 hour, no more. I call this thing a dough. Willingness - after raising it begins to descend. After that I form the bread for proofing. Half mold, half hearth. The molded one rises faster, so you have to contrive. Proofing for about 1 hour 15 minutes. Well, into the oven. I bake at 200 degrees for about 1 hour 15-20 minutes. After that - in linen towels. Turn over at first so as not to sag one-sidedly. It stands from evening to morning. Then into cling film. We consider the bread to be fresh until a week. Then just delicious. Good luck everyone!
Gasjka
Hello Evgeny! I'm just a mother of an autistic girl, I started baking gluten-free bread in February, that is, I want to say that I'm not a professional, I haven't mastered the leaven yet, if it's not difficult for you and have time, please help me stupid how to make this leaven and how to use it, a gluten-free recipe I came up with bread, or rather developed it, I tested it myself for four months, but unfortunately with yeast, I want to get away from them, help, please

Just in case, my e-mail ivkovichsvetlana gmail I'm afraid to just lose sight of you, this topic ... and it is very important to us, I do not trust store-bought gluten-free breads in Canada

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