The simplest hop starter

[Marina]

Marina, salt in scanty amounts does not slow down the dough, and even vice versa. I read on this topic, unfortunately I can't tell right away where, I'll look. I also think it's not about the liquid. Possibly few yeast cells in the starter culture. When the sourdough was especially reactive, I noticed a pleasant yeast smell when diluted in water.

Here's what I found: 🔗
"Do you know that salt can sometimes speed up fermentation? When I read about it, I was surprised, because it is generally believed that salt slows down the fermentation of dough. If you add a lot of it (more than 5% to the flour mass), it will be obvious - the dough will not budge. But, if you add a much less noticeable amount (up to 0.5% of the total dough / dough mass), then it will ripen faster than without salt at all. When the bakers noticed this trick, they began to use it on production during fermentation of dough. "

The main thing is not to overdo it.
I tried adding a pinch of salt to the wheat-rye dough. I didn't notice any difference. But there were no problems with the leaven - it was very strong, and the dough was kneaded by a bread maker, it would knead both the sticky dough and more elastic.

It is also possible that not all is well with flour. There are also all sorts of additives in it, maybe that's why the leaven deteriorates.

It will not interfere with the rise of the dough, and during growing it can disrupt the microbiological picture. In addition, salts do not mean sodium chlorine (table salt), but a whole list of water salts.

I also bake on water from osmosis. But with the addition of tap water. Because the hardness of water (salt) affects the quality of the dough. So I'll try to withdraw it on tap (diluted). Because in all my leavens, everything was different. And what kind of flour there was. There was one thing in common: Osmosis water.

[Nata]

Nata, and in the filter the rest of the cartridges are not with silver by chance?

[Lyudmila_K]

Lyudmila_K,

It seems no. Although it is not a fact that my husband did not set, but did not report to me)). Because osmosis is 5-6 years old. There, the membranes have already been changed many times, etc. Thanks for the tip, I'll ask him!

the cut of the bread: there are holes, but small and the crumb itself is dense

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, it's interesting about salt, but I'd rather put a dough without it.
Today I have a dough on sour pumpkin juice. By the way, bread turns out better not with fresh juice, but with sour
Natasha, to remove the leaven take not purified water, it is not dead, it will work.
katko, Katyusha, but you can see from the crumb that it is not loose, not fluffy, not soft, although there are holes. And the holes are not uniform, which means that the rise of the dough was not favorable.
Aren't you kneading too thick dough?

[Marina]

Marina, yes, I tried it in different ways and the bun and thinner a little ... of course it doesn't pour



and what is unfavorably incomprehensible to him .. temperature 25-27, rye flour and 1 grade wheat ... and I tried to offer him honey and sugar, but does not grow))

Katya, it shouldn't pour, if it is liquid, it will rise and fall. But you can't even thick.

[Marina]

Marina, I don’t remember who to the message, who remembered that my grandmother baked in the oven and poured out the dough

[Katerina]

Katerina, you can suggest an experiment. From a liquid dough, it can be difficult to understand, it seems to bubble well, but in the end it is rather weak. When flour and water 1: 1 is somehow clearer, growth in a glass jar is visible. I suggest taking a tablespoon with a heap of sourdough + warm water and hw. flour 100g. and see how long it takes at approx. 28-29 gr. there will be an increase of 2 times and whether there will be more than 2 times. Then you can judge the strength of the leaven. With a good leaven, I managed to precipitate it in 3 hours. If it does not last 4 or up to 2 hours or with a stretch, it is rather weak.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, I will conduct experiments)
the point is that the dough is bubbling and wandering well ... dances with tambourines begin further)

[Katerina]

Katerina, liquid dough? If liquid, it can be misleading. Bubbles well. And only if you have seen the same liquid, but with a strong leaven more than once, you can suspect that something is wrong.

In general, if the leaven raises the bread, but for a long time, since it is young and rather weak so far, you can add yeast (if not an opponent of their use), and the leaven will become stronger after a few updates, there the need for yeast will disappear. Sourdough bread with yeast is still better than just yeast bread (unless, of course, the leaven is just weak, and not sick).

I am not afraid of purchased yeast, moreover, their difference from wild yeast "grown in sourdough is not great, I use raw.
yes I will add next time, what really)



on a sourdough-semi-finished product "Vicki baked, but rather heavy rye breads, but here something is straightforward.

[Katerina]

Katerina, I, too, now dabble in a semi-finished product, I liked it more than I expected. Here I will get hops, sprout from the semi-finished product and transfer to the hop one. Hop is convenient because white bread can be baked, only 40g of sourdough in 500g of flour is fine with me.
Probably everyone has gags. It seems like it was done 100 times, but here it does not go and that's it. It may be better to try to withdraw it again, or switch to something else, and then with renewed vigor.

What do you mean by a semi-finished product?

[Nata]

Nata, starter-semi-finished product https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=42973.0

oha she

I read better and more closely, but the first reaction is not. It is not leaven. Industrial yeast will remain with them. Where will they go and how will they die out at a favorable temperature? The only benefit is the accumulation of acidity, which is necessary for rye bread. But here I can do the same to Zekova. Only she is 4 months old. stored in the refrigerator ...

[Nata]

Nata, this is everyone's business. And it depends on who how to industrial yeast. I am not against industrial ones and I bake them sometimes, if with them I would get the same bread as with sourdough, I would not bother at all. But with them, even with a small amount on the dough, the bread is different. Oddly enough, the semi-finished product gives bread as on a good, non-sour sourdough (which I like in hop sourdough), and not as just on yeast. But about Zekova, I do not know what it is and how?

I found information on Sekowa sourdough. I read it out of interest. It is not cheap, how much is enough and is it worth ...

[Lyudmila_K]

Lyudmila_K,

I am quite comfortable with industrial yeast. I use it constantly, but practically only pressed. Dry ones are in the refrigerator for insurance too. The point is not even that, but that it is, as it were, different. For me in the sense. Well, if you jump around a jar of sourdough in a tambourine, then let it be whatever you need))). And if I need both at the same time (yeast and sourdough), I will mix them myself in the dough (which I do, in fact, almost all the time: Hamelmann breads are almost always with yeast added for stability of the result). But when the industrial yeast is already in the original substance - for me the big question is what else is there besides industrial yeast. Other wild yeast colonies are unlikely to survive the onslaught of aggressive and sleek cultured strains. Homemade yeast will also accumulate acid, but the aroma and taste of sourdough bread is not only acid (by the way, it can hardly be found at all). It is precisely a combination of a number of yeast and LAB, products of their activity.
I am not at all against and do not convince, I just write as I see it, that's all.

Zekova is a dry bacterial enzyme. Enough for a very long time, because the jar is large (250g), and to restore a portion and get half a liter jar, you need 20g of dry enzyme. The reconstituted portion is stored in the refrigerator for up to 4 months. in a stable state and at rest. Does not sour, does not creep anywhere. Just sleeping.You can take away from it (from the can) in a spoon, which I do and then feed it for at least a week in a row, even if you use it for a year - you will exponentially have as much of the initial sourdough as you want. It begins to behave like an ordinary sourdough: it grows and peroxides. Only the original cultures reconstituted according to the instructions are stable. Well, something like this. For 3 loaves of rye bread, I take 4 grams of a starter))). This is about a teaspoon. For two days she feeds, works / rages, accumulates acidity (for rye it is necessary) and bakes bread. Then I don't need to bake for 2 weeks - and I won't. The mother is in a suspended state in the refrigerator. Once a week I fed a portion of sourdough every day, or even 2 times: and then pancakes, then white bread and so on.
On the manufacturer's website, it is declared as completely organic and a spontaneous fermentation starter. I hope they are not lying)). Has gained great popularity in Europe among home bakers.

But in any case, I grow liquid Hamelmanovskaya))). Because this one is definitely wild. I just have Zekova for reliability)). I have a habit of ruining the usual homemade spontaneous starter cultures at once)). At each stage, there is still growth, although mainly bacteria of the first stage (putrefactive and mucus-forming - the smell is appropriate), which will then die out. Tap water. The temperature is 27 degrees (I use it to the maximum). I will create a separate topic and will practice there)).

[Nata]

Nata, thanks for the clarifications! Maybe someday I will try such a miracle, it should be convenient

[marika33]

marika33, Good day! I decided to make a leaven. But the question is about hops. In the bazaar, it is green, dry but odorless. The leaven rose so-so.

Today I decided to collect December right from the bush. The one that turned yellow on the bush, dried up, opened, with seeds flying out, already brown in color, but the smell is gorgeous. Can such hops be used?

[aton4]

aton4, good day! Green hops, because they are harvested early, they are not ripe, they are empty, useless. Now you can collect the hops and try to make the sourdough with its broth. Take a larger amount for this. He, of course, too, will no longer be strong, the pollen, the most useful, has long since flown from him.
The girls were collecting hops at this time and even later, some made an excellent sourdough, some did not. if, nevertheless, she lets you down, buy hops at the pharmacy, there is sometimes good.
I wish you success!

[aton4]

aton4, good day! Green hops, because they are harvested early, they are not ripe, they are empty, useless. Now you can collect the hops and try to make the sourdough with its broth. Take a larger amount for this. He, of course, too, will no longer be strong, the pollen, the most useful, has long since flown from him.
The girls were collecting hops at this time and even later, some made an excellent sourdough, some did not. if it does let you down, buy hops at the pharmacy, there is sometimes good.
I wish you success!

Thank you). I'll try. I will only rinse it before brewing, because on it a semblance of dust, although it did not grow by the road.

Better not wash! Anything superfluous will settle at the bottom, just let it stand to precipitate.

Understood thanks.

[marika33]

marika33, Good day! I was looking for chebattu on hop sourdough, found a topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=845.0

I don’t quite understand how to measure 300 GRAMS of liquid hop sourdough and is it too much ...............?

[aton4]

aton4, good day! No, you shouldn't take that much leaven. Take it depending on the fluid you need. For 300 ml, I take 3 tablespoons of sourdough. She raises the dough perfectly. I can't even imagine such a quantity of leaven in one bread product.
Now there is no time to look at the recipe here.

Yes, thanks, just in case I also took 3 tbsp. l.

[marika33]

marika33, Good day! You know, today I thought, maybe this recipe is not about 300 g of sourdough, but about 300 g of dough prepared with hop sourdough.
Today I tried to make a chebattu. She went up to 4 st.spoons of sourdough for about 6 hours, but it turned out not at all the same as with yeast. There was not that ease. Visually and partly in section it looks like a chabatta, but the consistency when chewing is much denser, closer to ordinary bread. And now I want to find something light, just like chebatta and on zhakwask, so that I don't have to stand over everything for a long time.

[aton4]

aton4, Sergey, so you didn’t put the dough? Without dough, the dough will be bad and take a long time to rise.

First I started it on hop dough, then, when it somehow started to react for at least two hours, I kneaded the dough and set it for 6 hours, after 6 hours it rose by about three times.

The difficulty is that I need to find a bread recipe with the consistency and lightness of chabatta, but so that cooking takes a minimum of time (as is the case with the recipe for which I tried with yeast.)

It is not difficult to knead dough or dough for the night, but it’s expensive to put it on the next day several times for proving, because constantly running every hour - an hour and a half home is not the case, and sitting at home being tied to the kitchen is not an option either.

From my experience and the experience of Valery (in the subject), the sourdough dough cannot be crumpled several times. The biggest one, the second time she lifts the dough weaker. And much worse the third time.
Try it, share the result with us, please!
The dough has tripled the rise, that's great!

[marika33]

marika33Yes, now I put the dough for the night, tomorrow I'll try and write.

Marina, I am very grateful to you.
I decided to try to work with the leaven, chose the simplest one - yours. Since I had no business with bread at all, I did not count on the result at all, but after reading the whole Temka and taking into account all the nuances, I did it

I'll bring the cut tomorrow (still hot).
Thank you very much for your responsiveness and quick help in difficulties.

[Anya]

Anya, very beautiful bread, I hope it will be gorgeous in the context, and tastes too! I am very, very glad that the first time I got such excellent bread. Congratulations! I'm waiting for a photo of bread in a cut. And now I'm just admiring, very good!
Thank you for your kind words and thanks for the photo!

Almost cooled down ... could not resist

Super soft, firm and sooo delicious. Thank you.

[Anya]

Anya, poorly visible in the photo. Very small. Lush crumb, with holes?

[Marina]

Marina, yes lush and soft, although the holes are small. Tomorrow I will try to resist the photo session (although I cannot at all).

[Anya]

Anya, you need to click on the "picture" button, and not the preview, then the photo will be larger.
It doesn't matter that the photo is poorly visible, the main thing is that the bread turned out to be soft, fluffy and tasty!

Here

And more bread

I baked more bread on the same sourdough, reinsured according to the advice: I added 1.5 grams of raw frozen yeast ... but it still rose again for a long time and broke, did not disperse ... although the dough rose magnificently and violently as in previous times






probably next time I will knead the full dose all at once - since my leaven is so good, maybe all my bread will immediately rise on 3-4 spoons of the starter))

[nu_sya]

nu_sya, your bread is good! But here is interesting, very small holes in the crumb.
katko, Katya, you have wonderful bread in the context, excellent crumb, a lot of holes and large. But the roof was blown off and stood for a long time on the proofing. Maybe the temperature is low?
And you can put more leaven, it will not spoil the bread, do not be afraid.

[Marina]

not low, 250 at the beginning with steam



Marina, I'm not afraid, it doesn't matter from the sourdough colva, it doesn't grow after dough

Katya, when proofing m. B. low? no drafts?
Maybe you still overexpose the dough?

[marika33]

marika33, this is excluded
I put the electric in the cabinet, periodically turn on the light bulb, the temperature is 25-29

[Katerina]

Katerina, I started this leaven again, I had the same trouble. The dough grew 3 times, but slower than before, although not critically slower, and the bread is low, none. I baked on such a leaven for half a year, I know perfectly well how I should behave.Previously, no worse than ordinary yeast behaved - dough and bread "took off". It shouldn't be like it is now. I did not understand what was wrong, but the furnace is like torment and disappointment. So far, I see a way out only in the addition of yeast. I have already refreshed it several times, it has become better, but not in the right way. I sent her to the refrigerator. Yeast, which is removed in the leaven, are of different types. Maybe last time I was lucky to breed a reactive species, but now I got slow ones. Or the pharmacy hops fail, although I buy the same.
Probably worth buying another hops, another flour, and trying it all over again. Fortunately, not a complicated process.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, I changed the flour and liquids, only leaven was the unchanged component
dough fits well, my workpiece does not grow further
probably Marina is right, she stops standing with me and loses its strength ... or maybe, on the contrary, it costs little ... but I can't say for sure, it costs 10-12 hours ... we need to experiment with the time of the dough ... but these experiments I can only play on weekends

[Katerina]

KaterinaI still think we need to bring out a new leaven. We will transfer more products with unsuccessful bread. After all, when other leavens are removed, not every time everything works out. The wrong yeast was inhabited, in the wrong amount, or there is still some kind of infection, if the hop is not strong enough and did not kill some byaka. When the leaven is good, it is reactive and unkillable - it has been verified by personal experience.
If I put the dough overnight (6-8 hours), then it took me 3.5-4 hours from kneading bread to baking it. This sourdough is, in theory, closer to homemade yeast than to sourdough. She's faster. If not, then it didn't work out.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, but the sourdough suits me well and is high and bubbly, in theory it means a strong sourdough, it's me by the name of krivoruchko))