"Eternal" leaven

[Irisik]

... the bread turns out to be quite dense, as if she does not have enough strength to raise the dough higher, maybe I'm missing something? and am I storing it correctly?

Irisik, there are no complaints about storage.
Here, it seems, we need to figure out the consistency of the dough and the time of proofing. I sin on these two factors.

Thank you, I'm trying different recipes, so far in search of the most delicious bread

My sourdough is already about 2 months old, am I doing everything right - it is in my refrigerator

I'll put in my "five cents"
If the temperature is 11-13 degrees at the storage place of the leaven in the refrigerator, then the problem is hardly this, but if it is lower, then the ICD is very difficult.
One more thing, I never put the starter in the refrigerator when I am hungry, I always feed it before. For example, when I feed the sourdough for baking, I use all of it in the bread, and pour a measured amount of water into the dishes with the leftover sourdough on the walls, scrape off all the leftovers into the water, shake it, add the same amount of flour by weight with water, stir it, and so then only - in the refrigerator. Thus, I have a leaven in the refrigerator, which for the time being is busy with food, and not starving in the cold.

Oh, tell an inexperienced, novice leavener. Today is the second day of my starter growth. Already yesterday she was slowly bubbling with me. In the morning I fed her and after 5 hours she had grown and bubbled pretty decently, she was afraid to run away and prevented her. Nothing wrong with that? I'm really looking forward to tomorrow, I want to try it in action. You can already, right? I hope for a positive result and a long friendship with the leaven.

Good people, OU! Can you tell me if everything is OK with my starter culture? What kind of sediment appeared below? Can you interfere with it? And does my starter culture have good bubbles after 1.5 days of life?

Tatyanka, can she be too thin for you? therefore it exfoliates. Did you do everything according to the recipe? 1: 1 by weight? not in volume!
but you can interfere, she loves this
Good luck!
And happy holiday to you!

[Arka]

Arka, thanks for the answer. I measure everything on the scales and the consistency turns out to be thick, and then when the leaven has stood, it becomes thinner. Segonya had the second feeding and the third day. During the night, it dropped to its original level, there were bubbles on the top. I fed, now I'm waiting for a 2-fold increase and I will try to bake Italian bread. Tell me, are there completely sourdough bread without yeast? And is it possible to add more starter culture than the recipe, while reducing the volume of flour and water? MERRY CHRISTMAS!

It seems I flew with the leaven. Yesterday, after 2 feeding, she doubled (if not more), and today she fed her for 3 days, and she did not even think to grow. So it bubbles on the surface, but not at all inside. And exfoliates for some reason? When can I feed her now? And maybe the amount of water can be reduced, otherwise it seems to me a little thin, as a result it turns out (as for pancakes, and not for pancakes)? I would be glad if someone responds.

I would be glad if someone responds.

Of course he will.
Let’s try not to reduce the water, but to increase the flour as a percentage.
Let's calculate how much flour you already have for how much water and decide how much flour we need to increase it by 10 percent. Will you count?

[Viki]

Viki, I did everything as it is written on page 1, i.e. in the end it turned out 3 times, 100 g water / 100 g flour. But the fact is that without waiting for the rise after the third feeding, I removed 200 g from the sourdough and added 100 g of water / 100 g of flour each (this is after 3.5 days). Now it costs about 600 g of sourdough. At first, there were large bubbles on top (since I intervened with a new portion with a whisk), and after 5 hours, small bubbles appeared on top, but not inside. Maybe I explain it incomprehensibly, well, I'm sorry, inexperienced at all.

For these holidays I had a super-super task - to grow the leaven. And it came true !!!! I read a bunch of information on the site and now it came out. I will not say that everything went according to the scheme. And she didn’t want to get up for a long time, she didn’t like everything, and even at some point a speck of mold tried to form ... Now I’ll put all my strength in order not to ruin it
Thank you very much to everyone who shared their experience. Yesterday I already baked the first bread (custard black from a book for Panasonic). And it worked out. Well, maybe it didn't rise too high, but my sourdough is still very young, and I did not add yeast

[Tverichanka]

Tverichanka, and share how much did you grow the leaven? What day did you bake bread with her? And then I have problems.

[Tverichanka]

Yesterday I already baked the first bread (custard black from a book for Panasonic). And it worked out.

Tverichanka, with your newborn starter! And with bread - the firstborn sourdough!
May she please you! We have a lot of recipes, just have time. Well, don't forget to share with us. I would like to be successful.

tatjanka, why do you need 600 g of sourdough at this stage? And let's reduce its amount and make it healthier? How much are you willing to leave her? I suggest 100 grams and start making it thicker. For example, take 100 g of sourdough, give it 100 g of water and 120 g of flour, and for the next feeding, 100 g of water and 110 g of flour. This will increase the amount of flour by 10%. And yet - at what temperature is it grown?

[Viki]

Viki, I agree to everything if only it works out. I will obey and obey, I promise. When to make the first batch of complementary foods? Stands in the closet, and there is 26 *.

[Viki]

Viki, I agree to everything if only it works out. I will obey and obey, I promise. When to make the first batch of complementary foods? Stands in the closet, and there is 26 *.

Get out of the closet and tell in detail:
when was the last time you fed (time)
in what container is it sitting (glass, plastic ...)
what is covered (lid, lid with a hole, gauze, wet towel ...)
how it looks now (I assume there are small bubbles on top, and liquid below)
Resuscitation is a serious matter. I have a suspicion that at some stage she went over the acids. If you can taste it, or smell it (is there a smell of alcohol?)

Fed 6-7 hours ago; stands in a glass jar; covered with cling film in a hole; the structure is homogeneous without delamination and small bubbles on top. It really tastes like apple puree (as Admin wrote) and there is no smell of alcohol.

[tatjanka]

The bread turned out like this:
Baking in HP on the French program. The roof turned out to be flat, slightly sagged. The crust is crispy. Hopefully someone's experienced eye will see the flaws and give me a hint.
tatjanka, grew the leaven for 4 days instead of 3. She was thick all the time. And in the beginning it rose badly. Starting from the second day, she began to stir it periodically, then moved it to a warmer battery. And then it began .... She began to rapidly increase in size. I even had to feed her not in a day, but earlier, otherwise she began to fall off. I had to adapt to her behavior on the go. But somehow it turned out so well, which I am still surprised myself. Yes, I put her on rye wallpaper flour, and fed her the first time, and then switched to wallpaper.

[tatjanka]

tatjanka, you have a ready-made sourdough. All signs of a living liquid leaven. Let's make it thicker and go up with a bang!
There is only a suspicion that your flour has more moisture than is permissible according to the standards. This is a common occurrence now. In the store, they like to store paper bags with flour on the lower shelves, while the floors are washed regularly several times a day. And flour absorbs moisture with pleasure.
Let's feed her as I suggested earlier (sourdough 100 g, water 100 g and flour 120 g), she will become thick, and in the morning we'll see how she will feel.

My most successful rye starters also smelled like apples.

Hopefully someone's experienced eye will see the flaws and give me a hint.

Do not even hope to hear anything other than BRAVO !!!
The first sourdough bread, and even rye - but it's just delicious!

[Viki]

Viki, Hurrah! : bravo: I went to follow the instructions. And I have rye flour, can we add it? Or without amateur performances? I hope for a positive result, I'll unsubscribe tomorrow!

Tverichanka, I'm very glad for you that everything worked out. What a painstaking work it is to grow the leaven.

... unsubscribe tomorrow!

Oh look, you can have no more than 12 hours from feeding. Not a fact, of course, but quite possible. So, be sure to put a level mark on it.
Good luck!

And another question arose: I mix flour with water in a separate bowl and then add it to the leaven, is that correct? Or should everything be added to the leaven and mixed?

Wow ... straight from the heart it was relieved! And then I kept looking for flaws in him (I'm such a samoyeda, rarely happy with my "creations"). And the fact that my leaven came out, I am still surprised, because I know from the forum that they are quite capricious. Apparently, just a lucky coincidence. By the way, I also sniffed the leaven all the time. It smelled delicious, which calmed me down.

And another question arose: I mix flour with water in a separate bowl and then add it to the leaven, is that correct? Or should everything be added to the leaven and mixed?

I did that too ...

Well, this is a personal matter for each fermentor, but I like to do this:
I measure out the leaven, add water to it, I don't recognize any whisks here - I arm myself with a fork and beat it well so that there is already foam. I am so oxygenating my leaven. Well ... or I think I'm saturating ... Then I add flour on top (it emits a quiet hiss at the same time, which also ... in general I like it), I mix the flour again with a fork. I tell her bon appetit and that's it.
No, I honestly am a quite adequate person, but I love to talk with leaven.

[Viki]

VikiPerhaps this method is more convenient, thanks for the hint. And it is really saturated with oxygen. As soon as I began to stir my own more often, she just "cheered up".

[Viki]

No, I honestly am a quite adequate person, but I love to talk with leaven.

We are all adequate now Viki And give the second feeding in 12 hours? Tomorrow I will also try to make an oxygen mask to the leaven with a fork.

And give the second feeding in 12 hours?

I hope so. Let's meet in the morning on the topic and see how it will feel in these 12 hours. Maybe we'll add some time.

[Viki]

Viki, thank you so much for your willingness to help. I congratulate everyone on CHRISTMAS CHRISTMAS!

Thank you in advance if you answer.
We gave a bread maker 2 months ago, but I have never baked it yet, because I want to bake with sourdough, without yeast. I tried to make the leaven, but it didn’t work, because I live in Israel without central heating, in an apartment of 18-19 degrees, and constant heat is needed to prepare the leaven. Do you have any advice?

Oh look, you can have no more than 12 hours from feeding. Not a fact, of course, but quite possible. So, be sure to put a level mark on it.
Good luck!

My leaven has risen by 1 cm and the bubbles are on top of the surface, but inside is not visible. I am waiting for valuable instructions!

Well, I probably ran ahead of the locomotive and fed the leaven at 11-00 (100 water / 110 flour). I'm waiting.

No, this locomotive was late
While I wrote "give her 100 water and 110 flour ...." and you already
Tell me how is it in terms of density when feeding and what density was it in the morning?

Tell me how is it in terms of density when feeding and what density was it in the morning?

Fu, I was already scared that you would scold. In the morning it was not very liquid, and after feeding it became even thicker as for pancakes. That first mine was much thinner. Where to see the consistency of the leaven? It would be much easier, otherwise everyone has different concepts.

[Marmeladka]

Marmeladka, leavened bread is labor, a bread maker is a device that makes labor easier, but its programs are designed for baking yeast bread.Therefore, we adapt to HP, and not they adapt to us. The dough is leavened and kneaded differently, more precisely, the hp on the yeast bread mode gives a mixture and we stand over the stove and turn off the kneading earlier, and the proofing is the other way around, and again turn off and watch the rise, the main thing is to turn on the baking in time. It is much more convenient to bake sourdough bread in the oven. But you can adapt too.
Please tell us what kind of bread you want to bake. In the sense - wheat or rye. How often. Let's determine what kind of leaven you need and think about what we can do.
And in Israel we have fermentors. And they grow, some with a heating pad, some with bottles of warm water. And there are also sourdough cultures that you don't need to heat too much, only the first couple of days.

Where to see the consistency of the leaven?

I'll look for a picture with consistency. But "for pancakes" already suits us. I am only confused by the time. If you fed at 11, then you can be calm until evening. BUT! In the evening, this amount of food will not be enough for her. Why do we need a lot of leaven? So - either we will "half" it, or eh, how we will feed
You put a mark on her, okay?
And tell us what are you going to bake? How often? And how will it be more convenient for you to store it?

[Viki]

Viki, put a mark, I'm just like with a child. ... I want to try Italian and French with sourdough bread. I would also like Darnitsky bread with "eternal" leaven (in KhP). I bake bread 1 time in 3 days. And I would like to store it in the refrigerator, otherwise if in the kitchen, as I understand, I will have to feed more often, but I don't need so much leaven. And will it be possible to add more starter cultures than according to the recipe, and reduce the amount of flour / water by the same weight?

I want to try Italian and French with sourdough bread.

Wait, are we growing rye sourdough now?
For Italian and French, we need wheat. Shall we overfeed a part of the sourdough for wheat?
And most importantly - what is the temperature in your refrigerator? Otherwise we will ruin our child ...

Wait, are we growing rye sourdough now?
For Italian and French, we need wheat.

No, we have wheat leaven. I will measure the temperature, I need 10-12 * it seems?

No, we have wheat leaven. I will measure the temperature, I need 10-12 * it seems?

Then everything is just SUPER !!!
If we need acidity in rye, then the main thing is not to let it gain excess acidity. We will keep vigil. Look at her carefully - what will happen in 6 hours? After 8? If the first time we tripled it with feeding and it could stand for 12 hours, now we have less feed than the starter itself. Do not let it grow more than twice, much less fall.

Do not let it grow more than twice, much less fall.

Now, after 4 o'clock, it is bubbling like bubble volcanoes in some places. But it doesn't increase in size. And what if it starts to grow ??? The temperature in the refrigerator is 9.5 * on the top shelf, I think it's the warmest there.

Now, after 4 o'clock, it is bubbling like bubble volcanoes in some places. But it doesn't increase in size.

Fine. Once the bubbles show - alive. It will take 8 hours from feeding and we will know who was raised. There will be bubbles, but there will be no growth - we will add yeast bacteria to it. She obviously has enough lactic acid if there are volcanoes in 4 hours and this is at 26 *. Your girl is fighting for her life.

[Viki]

Viki, I so hope that she is alive and all thanks to you. : rose: You wrote everything right: the top is all in bubbles, and in growth, no, no. What should I do next? What to feed?

Alive, beautiful, but liquid. Let's make it very thick? How do you like the idea? So that as much as knead. Just don't wash my hands with soap before that. You have bacteria on your skin that are beneficial to it.
We calculate by the formula: how much leaven - so much flour - half the water.
That is, for every 100 g of sourdough, 100 g of flour and only 50 g of water. How much starter culture to take is up to you. But in time ...what time to feed her, so that until morning it will be enough? Now how much time have you passed from feeding? And in the photo?

The photo shows 10 hours, and now it's already 12.

The photo shows 10 hours, and now it's already 12.

It's time to feed.
Thick it will stand until morning, but the place is already cooler. How many degrees are there on the windowsill?

It's time to feed.
Thick it will stand until morning, but the place is already cooler. How many degrees are there on the windowsill?

What do you think can run away? And if everything is ok tomorrow, you can bake it on it? I ask in advance, so as not to bother you too much tomorrow. : girl_red: And then I'm very uncomfortable that you are messing with me like a child. And what should I do tomorrow morning? On the windowsill 22-24 *.

Everything should be fine. I really hope. Tomorrow she should inflate and rise. And when you look at it inside, it should be like this:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=33626.0
It is advisable that your container has three times the volume of the starter culture and cover it with a foil already without holes. She will have enough air for sure, it is checked.
You just need to calculate how much to put it in the dough and how much water to add flour at the same time. What kind of bread do you have in mind?

[Viki]

Everything should be fine. I really hope. Tomorrow she should inflate and rise. And when you look at it inside, it should be like this:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=33626.0
It is advisable that your container has three times the volume of the starter culture and cover it with a foil already without holes. She will have enough air for sure, it is checked.
You just need to calculate how much to put it in the dough and how much water to add flour at the same time. What kind of bread do you have in mind?

Viki, the dressing turned out like a dough for pies and had to stir with my hands, I think it will not be worse (I hope I have enough bacteria)? Italian or French would be desirable. Now I have 500 g of sourdough after feeding.

I had to interfere with my hands, I think it will not be worse (I hope I have enough bacteria)?

So the whole event was conceived for the same!

Italian or French would be desirable.

In the oven? Let's determine who we need and count. There is 100% hydration sourdough everywhere, and now we will calculate how much we have.
Did you take 200g sourdough + 200g flour and 100g water?