"Eternal" leaven

[timbuhta]

timbuhtaIt is not interesting to start with the "correct" one. Honestly. With so many adventures ahead, do not deprive yourself of many small joys. ( Really)
Have you looked at our rye-wheat section? Liked what? We mainly have molded ones, but any of them are kneaded thicker and baked with a hearth is not a problem.

Another

After talking with Viki, I decided to check how the sourdough is doing there for a dream (it took only a couple of hours).
I open the oven and there ... rapid growth, almost doubled, that's wow "fed" !!!
I put it in two jars (it's a pity to throw it away!), Corked with lids and go to sleep.

Morning. Before work. You saw the fairy tale about the magic pot, read it.? I have TWO of them! Under the cover, both. At autopsy, the effect is indescribable, PYH! Jin is released, the volume immediately falls by half. (it looks like I've already made a dough in a day and a half)
In general, I replaced the lids with baking paper and made holes in it (paper) with a toothpick, what is happening there now at home? (Again, frames from the cartoon come to mind).

Guys, why turn over the baking sheet when there is no stone for bread? Can't you put bread on the "face" of the baking sheet?
I am so delighted with the eternal leaven, but my hearth bread is still not very successful, I make more molds.

Guys, why turn over the baking sheet when there is no stone for bread? Can't you put bread on the "face" of the baking sheet?
..

Joy

I think the point is as follows. It is advisable to put the formed hearth in the oven on a hot baking sheet, that is, it should be heated together with the oven and be the same as the oven, temperature. It was like putting a bun on heated stones in the oven from ancient times. But since the baking sheet usually does not have a flat shape, that is, it has sides, it is more convenient to lay the "kolobok" on an inverted baking sheet. This is provided that the baking sheet is not removed from the oven, and the bread is placed in the oven, for example, from a spatula. Type-safety technique, so as not to get stuck. If removing the baking sheet from the oven is not a problem, then you may not need to turn it over, but it is true that it can cool down, which is not desirable.

This is IMHO.

And besides safety precautions, the baking sheet still has depth. And when we spread the bread from the spatula, it is better that the spatula is already on the edge of the baking sheet, otherwise these couple of centimeters give a "splash" of bread from the spatula onto the baking sheet. And when it is as far away as possible, it can deflate like a ball. It will be a shame.
And also, when the baking sheet is turned upside down, with its sides it keeps the hot air rising up, as if underneath. In any case, according to the laws of physics, it should be so.

[timbuhtaViki]

timbuhta
Viki
Thanks for the explanations, instructive for the novice baker

Good evening! Several years ago I constantly baked homemade bread with sourdough given to me by a work colleague (his wife used this sourdough to bake delicious rye custard bread with caraway seeds in the oven (like "Riga"). I also got it, as well as white, and rye - all on this leaven. She "worked" with me for 4 years. I had to leave for the whole summer, and the leaven died
I don’t know how the sourdough was prepared (it was brought from Latvia in due time), but I kept it without any problems in the refrigerator, in a mayonnaise jar covered with gauze.
Every week (if I didn't bake bread) I renewed the leaven: I took a tablespoon of the old leaven, a teaspoon Sahara, half a jar of water and wheat flour until the consistency of thick sour cream - and immediately in the refrigerator.
I made many different starter cultures according to different recipes, instead of the lost one, but I did not succeed in the same problem-free ...

[L @ ​​ra]

I made many different starter cultures according to different recipes, instead of the lost one, but I did not succeed in the same problem-free ...

L @ ​​ra, and you know what the problem may be - you got that leaven already working, that is, well-strengthened. You did not go through the first stages with her when she was just grown and still weak. And in the first week, while the young leaven is just gaining strength, you are already comparing it with the one that has served you as an assistant for many years. And the comparison here is definitely not in favor of the young one.

Yes, Viki, the sourdough was just working, now I will put it according to your recipe and I want to try and compare from the germinated grain. I also want to buy a sourdough in the Alexander Nevsky Lavra, they have very tasty, leavened bread.
But I wanted to ask you something else: I fed mine sugar, those, in the evening I took out a jar of their h-ka, all the leaven, and it was 1/2 can - I used it for morning baking, and in an empty jar, with leftover leaven on the walls, I poured water, about 1/3, put a tea a spoonful of sugar. and a few teaspoons of flour, until thick sour cream, and immediately put it in the refrigerator. And so for 4 years: the leaven lived perfectly, bubbled quietly, the bread was also flawless.
In search of a new recipe, I often found myself on church sites, where they also advise putting sugar when feeding sourdough. Your recipes say nothing about sugar.

In my recent experiments, I got the leaven, but it was not "eternal", but after about 2-3 weeks it stratified, darkened and ... died. I didn't put in sugar.
The quality of the bread did not suit me either.
Maybe sugar is still needed? How do you think?

Thanks for the answer, Larissa

Maybe sugar is still needed? How do you think?

Sugar is an exclusively "master's" business. There will definitely be no harm.
When we start a sourdough on grapes, the grapes contain sugar, the "French" sourdough is also started on malt. It is a good food for bacteria. And in the already "working" one, for example, I do not add sugar, because I bake bread mostly without sugar at all.
And taste the sprouted grain - it is sweet. So, everything should work out for you. If you look for "your" sourdough, then it will certainly be found. Otherwise it can not be. Good luck to you!

Viki, thank you very much for your moral support and sensible advice, I have already set YOUR sourdough to grow (based on the forum materials), I understood everything about sugar)

Continuation of the saga of growing sourdough

So. After a stormy start and a morning performance (the sourdough decided that it was champagne and when the lid was opened it made - PYH!), Then nothing happened. And in the evening and in the morning, in spite of the feeding, nothing, not counting a couple of small bubbles, in both banks.

I remembered the phrase from the film - "Everything is lost, chief! ..." So two days passed, on the third I decided to start experiments. I added dry yeast to one container, on the tip of a knife (Dr. Etker), the second was left unchanged. A day later, according to a survey of witnesses, in the container with the addition of tremors, the volume increased by two and then everything settled to the previous level, all this was in my absence, well, well ...

Yesterday I decided to bake "landmines", well, I was not added to the dough 100 g of sourdough from a jar of yeast, the bread was generally quite successful and today it is no longer there, but I added a little dough to the jar from which I took the sourdough - literally 10 grams.
Today, as expected in this jar, the fermentation process is quite noticeable to the eye, BUT in the control container the process also went, not so violently, but still! In general, I fed both of them, tomorrow I will have a look.

I continue.

So today, apparently, something happened that was so eagerly expected!

If I understand correctly, an increase in the volume of the contents of the can by half and this appearance from above and bubbles throughout the depth of the contents - this is what is called the sourdough at its peak?

That is, you urgently need to do something? Knead the dough or dough right away? In general, I went to study the recipes (for the tenth time).

P. S.This is a leaven from a control sample in which only water and rye flour, in a jar with the addition of a gram of yeast and a piece of dough, the process is similar, but the surface is not so bubbly.

Timbukhta, congratulations! The ice has broken!
Use your sourdough in the batch (unless, of course, it is less than 3 days old), and it is better to feed it again (at night), and in the morning you can mix up to 400 g of active sourdough, provided that you add flour to the dough not less than 400 g
If it is not possible to bake tomorrow afternoon, continue feeding the small one until you can bake.
The leaven will raise the dough in almost the same amount of time as itself. So calculate how you will be further.
Good luck!

And I would dispose of the starter culture with industrial yeast. Why do you need it when there is a product unspoiled by civilization?

Arka Thank you!

Being in a slight panic - that something needs to be done, I chose the bread recipe from Axiom, proceeding from the fact that the dough is not needed, and it looks very beautiful:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=91879.0

I have already kneaded, put it to stand, I will probably not sleep soon, we are waiting for it.

chose the bread recipe from Axiom, proceeding from the fact that the dough is not needed, and it looks very beautiful

I have already kneaded, put it to stand, I will probably not sleep soon, we are waiting for it.

Great choice! Axiom has excellent breads!
Good luck! And don't sleep!
well, you can take a nap for a couple of hours

For the fourth day, my starter culture has been standing (warm, under a damp towel) in bubbles - and it does not increase in size. And the foam is already "dirty" - but does not grow. What to do ???

[Amidala]

Amidala, wait and feed! But take a part of the leaven so that the flour does not translate

What does it mean to take a piece? Divide the leaven? Part to feed, and where the second? In the dough?

You can have several st. take spoons and continue to feed until it works.
The rest is unnecessary. I would not let it into the dough, because there is still a struggle against pathogenic bacteria, why should I eat them?

That is, for example: separate 2 tbsp. spoons, add 2 tbsp. tablespoons of flour + 2 tbsp. spoons of water and ... wait until tomorrow (day)? Tomorrow, too, 2 tablespoons of flour and water? Am I getting it right?

That is, for example: separate 2 tbsp. spoons, add 2 tbsp. tablespoons of flour + 2 tbsp. spoons of water and ... wait until tomorrow (day)? Tomorrow, too, 2 tablespoons of flour and water? Am I getting it right?

Almost, flour must be taken at least 3 tbsp. l. for 2 tbsp. l. water. so it will be closer to the recipe. In the recipe, water and flour are added to the sourdough in equal WEIGHT, not volume.
By the way, your starter culture may not rise because it is liquid, but should be very thick.

Thank you, I will continue. I'll write how things will go.

There is no result. Nothing happens to her - no rise, no foam, no bubbles, not even a bad smell. NOTHING!!! Standing by the battery, point 27 C, in an earthen pot - maybe she doesn't like the dishes? Before that I stood in plastic, even though it was bubbling

my "played" only after the first night in the refrigerator

There is no result. Nothing happens to her - no rise, no foam, no bubbles, not even a bad smell. NOTHING!!! Standing by the battery, point 27 C, in an earthen pot - maybe she doesn't like the dishes? Before that I stood in plastic, even though it was bubbling

Dont be upset! Flour is of different quality for everyone, so the cultivation time is different for everyone.
I raised mine for over a week.
What is the thickness of the leaven? Transfer it at the next feeding in a glass dish so that you can observe the bottom, because from above everything can seem static.

The leaven is in a glass jar. I have an electric fireplace and so I put the leaven in the niche of the electric fireplace. there the temperature is 35 degrees. they write that the leaven should be bubbling, that there should be a smell of vinegar essence and it should not be mixed in water - this is when it is ready. my leaven rises after feeding, but there is no foam or bubbling, as well as there is no smell of vinegar, it does not smell at all. and she drowns in water.it turns out that the leaven is not ready? It has been worth feeding for 10 days every day at the same time. and always the result is the same no change.

Wasabi, and how much of this leaven do you have, how do you feed it, proportions?
Maybe t is too big, it seems optimal to me 27-30

The leaven is in a liter jar. Now I feed a little so as not to waste flour. take a shot of gram (70). two shots of flour two shots of warm water from the tap. after four days of feeding, before each subsequent feeding, I remove part of the sourdough, leaving only two and a half 3 centimeters at the bottom of the can. As for the temperature, I tried to put it on a stool. and moving and moving away from the fireplace found the temperature of 30 degrees. The result is the same. also tried making a thick leaven. the result is the same. I can't do something.

And how to understand wallpaper flour or peeled. I take in the store rye flour packaged by weight and it does not say what it is. and sellers have no idea rye and rye. and from what flour it is better to put the leaven.

And how to understand wallpaper or peeled flour. I take in the store by weight packaged. there is nothing written about what she is. and the sellers have no idea about rye and rye. and from what flour it is better to put the leaven.

Better not to be sown.
From wallpaper flour (there are many large grain particles), the leaven hardly grows.
You can see the picture, I fed the sourdough with wallpaper flour. It grew a maximum of 1.5 times, but at the same time it was full of holes.

Sourdough grows well from peeled flour (there are small bran) - and the flour is nutritious and not too heavy.

But here's the paradox, I personally liked it much more wallpaper bread

And I would advise you to stick to more of the sourdough recipe: feed with equal WEIGHT water and flour

I did not sow flour. this is obtained in the store peeled flour. because there are no large grain particles present. where can you buy wallpaper flour? Arka THANKS YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSE!

I did not sow flour. this is obtained in the store peeled flour. because there are no large grain particles present. where can you buy wallpaper flour? Arka THANKS YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSE!

Seeded flour is a type of flour.
Where to get wallpaper - contact your fellow countrymen, they can tell you. By the way, in your profile you could indicate your city or region.
My wallpaper flour is of Polish origin.

Sourdough No. 3 (third day) bubbles and rises (but of course not 2 times). Third feeding tonight. So tomorrow you can have bread !? But ... since this is the third sourdough, and its predecessors did not end their lives very nicely, I added 25 grams of flour (saved), as I understand this is not enough for the dough, SO WHAT TO DO NEXT? Further feed-grow? Or put it in the refrigerator? PROMPT (she is very dear to me)

Further feed-grow? Or put it in the refrigerator? PROMPT (she is very dear to me)

do not torment the little one with the refrigerator, it is still weak
feed a couple more days in large proportions 1 tsp starter culture: 2 tsp feed
see how long it takes for the leaven to raise itself 2-3 times
you will know what to expect from her when kneading the dough

Thanks for the quick response

Hello. I am trying to grow leaven - today is the 2nd day. Behaves very well - bubbles and foam at full, smells like sour apples - in general, so far there have been no problems.
But one question torments me. If everything goes well, and it rises on day 3 and reaches its peak, then I use part of it, and put some in the refrigerator. When I get ready to bake bread again in 2 days I will get it and feed it again. Everything is clear to me here. Well, if I bake bread every 2 days, what should I do? put in the refrigerator or not? And if to remove, then when to get it ???

and who will tell? it is better to make wheat sourdough from what kind of flour?

from the 2nd

Hello. I am trying to grow leaven - today is the 2nd day.Behaves very well - bubbles and foams in full, smells like sour apples - in general, so far there have been no problems.

Well, how are you there? Has anything grown? or temporarily froze, like most?

And I have nothing to say. I add flour and warm water once a day. Per day rises exactly twice, no more. From above no foam and no caps (as in the photo in mk), so I think that the leaven is not ready (it does not rise for a few hours after "feeding"). I don’t know what to do next. And in general I don't understand if you leave a little sourdough in the refrigerator for baking bread, then the whole process needs to be repeated (80 -100 gr. Is definitely not enough for baking). Everywhere only the days when we grow the leaven are described, but what to do with it next?

I have a question too? They write it makes sense to stir the leaven. here it starts to rise after feeding it rises rises - it becomes all inside the porous truth, there is no foam cap on top. but only if you stop it, and after that there are no more lifts and movements. everything freezes.

[Amidala, wasabi]

Amidala, wasabiHow thick are your leavens?

Amidala, did I understand correctly that your sourdough rises during the day? that is, it grows all this time, and does not grow, say, in half a day and then stands still without falling? in what proportions do you feed - how much leaven do you take, how much flour and water do you add?

wasabi, if your sourdough is more than 5 days old and it generally rises, then how often do you feed it and in what proportions?

A ready-made strong starter culture can be easily stored in the refrigerator, a small part of it (for example, 50 grams). On the eve of baking, we take out the bread from the refrigerator, feed it with half the weight of what you need according to the recipe, in the second stage (after the first rise) we feed it to the desired weight, wait until it rises, and into the batch.
Example:
you have 50 g of sourdough in your refrigerator
bake according to plan tomorrow, according to the recipe you need 250 g of leaven
at night we take out 50 g of sourdough from the refrigerator, warm it up, feed it with 50 g of water + 50 g of flour, we get 150 g of sourdough preparation
in the morning (and by the morning your leaven will definitely rise), add another 55-60 g of water and flour, we get only 260-270 g
waiting for it to rise, put the required 250 g into the dough
the rest (and this will most likely be residues on the walls and bottom of the dishes in which the sourdough grew) shake with 20 g of water, add 20 g of flour, stir well and put in the refrigerator for storage.
if you do not bake for a long time, remove the leaven from the refrigerator every 3-4 days and feed it so that it does not sour

yes, and also, the frothy cap, which worries everyone, is formed in liquid leaven, while thick leaven has porosity along its entire height

Yes, it grows during the day. Thickness like pancakes, maybe even a little thicker. I feed gr. 60 flour - 60 ml. warm water. In general, I do everything as you wrote. This one has been growing since October 16.

How much of the leaven do you take? at what temperature does it grow?
how do you measure flour? she's a little watery .. and grows too long ..
let's take a picture of her and post a photo: at the time of feeding, after 12 hours and after 24 hours, let's see how she behaves
do it in glassware so that you can see from the bottom and from the sides

As she took on October 16 2-3 st. spoons of old sourdough, first 25 grams of flour + 25 grams of water. Three days later, 60 gr. The temperature in the kitchen is 25, but the can is at the radiator and is covered.

I measure it with a measuring glass from a bread machine. No, it is not liquid, it barely slides off the spoon.

I put in a new rye leaven. the first two days I fed 100 per 100 grams. today is the third day. since there are two days for 100 grams. I decided to make it like the uterine one 200 to 200. The gusseted zekvask is thicker than the market sour cream. if you stick a wooden spatula into it, the spatula will stand. did in 2 liter. Bank. just now I added it for the last time. it turned out a lot, almost half the spirit of a liter can
No, this density is only after kneading. and then it breaks down and becomes thinner.

[Amidala]

Amidala, so maybe she just doesn't have enough food?
how does it taste and smell now? maybe it's just peroxide

feeding should be more in relation to the starter itself
weigh 40 g of leaven
add to it 40 g of water, flour
after rising, add 60 g each.