"Eternal" leaven

[Viki,]

Viki,
Vika, by the way, I'm all about my rose dough and sourdough - such a dough turned out - bubbled and so it squeaked

[Viki]

Viki, New, thanks for the tips and useful information!
I periodically read the blogs of the masters (mariana-aga, crucide), but I can't always find the information I need right away, it is often buried in the comments ...

And if the dough is folded two times in the process of proving-fermentation. And when the bread is formed, squeeze bubbles out of it too. Maybe the porosity will go away?

So you can still crush the sourdough dough, otherwise I wear it like a Faberge egg
I shift it with velvet paws for proofing, I'm afraid that it won't rise a second time ...

[Viki]

Viki, New, thanks for the tips and useful information!
I periodically read the blogs of the masters (mariana-aga, crucide), but I can't always find the information I need right away, it is often buried in the comments ...
So you can still crush the sourdough dough, otherwise I wear it like a Faberge egg
I shift it with velvet paws for proofing, I'm afraid that it won't rise a second time ...

Also, for starters: the magazines of Sergei and Oksana and 🔗

When I crush, I do not expect what will rise, but I look at the time. If I know that the test needs 3 hours for the good development of bacteria, I add up and withstand the time. Then I mold and already - no, no, "I wear it like with a Faberge egg"
Eh, and I love not just holes, but holes!

[NatusyaD]

NatusyaD when the sourdough according to the recipe is ready, it is ready under ideal conditions, but in practice it needs to be fed for two more days so that it can bake bread. Plus Darnitsky is rye. And rye does not rise well anyway, and if you mix it still, and if you also add sourdough for a week without a year. Feed her a couple more days. Only take in proportions of 1/4/4 or 1/3/3. But you ought to look after her, do not leave her for a long time. Has risen twice, the dome has opal - feed. If for a long time you need to leave the last feeding with cold water and in a cool place.
I didn't get the bread right away. Thanks to the guru, they helped me, step by step, and everything worked out. And you will succeed. Of course, you want bread now, but you have to wait.

Uraaaa !!! Happened!!! The sourdough reached maturity, I put it all in the HP (only left it along the walls for divorce) and added everything to wheat bread as usual, only reduced the liquid. I put it on French bread. The result is a wheat-wheat-rye bread with a slightly grayish tinge of crumb and a lacy crust. It tasted a bit like salt, although I put it as usual. I did not have time to take a photo, while the cat was cooling down on the grate and climbed onto the table and chewed the entire top of its head. We ate the rest

Novelty vitamin,
Yesterday I baked Golosilovskaya sausage according to Sergey's recipe!
But there is both leaven and yeast.

Yesterday I baked Golosilovskaya sausage according to Sergey's recipe!
But there is both leaven and yeast.

Super! How did you get out

Uraaaa !!! Happened!!! The sourdough reached maturity, I put it all in the HP (only left it along the walls for divorce) and added everything as usual to wheat bread, only reduced the liquid. I put it on French bread. The result is a wheat-wheat-rye bread with a slightly grayish tinge of crumb and a lacy crust. It tasted a bit like salt, although I put it as usual. I didn't have time to take a photo, while the cat was cooling down on the grate and climbed onto the table and chewed the entire top of its head. We ate the rest

Congratulations!!!! It will be even better further. Change the proportion in the direction of reducing the starter culture, for example 1/5/5.And for wheat you need to either overfeed with wheat flour, or start a new one. If possible, feed either grade 2 or whole grain. In extreme cases, grade 1. Use V / S only if there is no choice at all, and even then not for very long.

[McCleod]

McCleod overfeeding, does it mean to fall asleep instead of rye wheat? We have such difficulties with grades 1 and 2, I barely got hold of rye. Only in 2 shops in the city it is sold and that does not always happen. And I have never met a whole grain at all. But for the sake of leaven I will look. Is it not recommended to bake wheat bread with rye sourdough? Or for aesthetic reasons? The color, of course, was not very good.

[McCleod]

McCleod overfeeding, does it mean to fall asleep instead of rye wheat? We have such difficulties with grades 1 and 2, I barely got hold of rye. Only in 2 shops in the city it is sold and that does not always happen. And I have never met a whole grain at all. But for the sake of leaven I will look. Is it not recommended to bake wheat bread with rye sourdough? Or for aesthetic reasons? The color, of course, was not very good.

You can bake any bread on any sourdough, but on rye you get wheat rye, delicious, gray bread. After all, you get about 15-30% of rye flour in bread.
Look on the Internet, maybe in your city there are small wholesale bases with 1.2 grade flour.

You have 1st grade flour on Tashkent street, 56

+7 (353) 277-54-33

+7 (353) 257-27-71

Flour 2 grades in White Jaguar LLC

Orenburg

+7 (3532) 99-59-76

[McCleod]

McCleod Thank you very much for your answer and in general for your participation ... Yesterday I tried baking again and again it did not work. I wanted to throw out the rest of the leaven, but still I'll try again. I will buy 1 or 2 grade and the Last fight, it is the most difficult ...

[McCleod]

McCleod Thank you very much for your answer and in general for your participation ... Yesterday I tried baking again and again it did not work. I wanted to throw out the rest of the leaven, but still I'll try again. I will buy 1 or 2 grade and the Last fight, it is the most difficult ...

Let's see what it means to fail? Do you bake rye or wheat? Does the leaven increase 2 or more times? Do you start baking when the leaven stops rising?

Girls (and boys :)), is it possible in general that sourdough wheat bread without yeast does not sour at all? My family doesn't want to eat sour bread ...
My sourdough is grown on the blog of Michael-crucide. The technology is similar to "eternal" (that's why I am writing in this thread), the first 2 days on rye wallpaper flour with water (100 + 100), then the transition to wheat. She is now 3 weeks old. I feed 1: 5: 5 2 times a day (it is impossible to feed less because at home + 25C), I do not allow to fall off now (it was 1 time, when it fell out and stood for 4 hours). Now I feed at its peak, when it has increased by about 4 times, but has not subsided yet. The smell is pleasant, creamy with a touch of lime blossom! But .... Bread with sourdough alone always turns out sour. I tried the oven:
- on ripe sourdough,
- on twice fed 1: 1: 1,
- increased only 2 times,
- and, today, I tried it according to the method of Chad Robertson from the blog mariana-aga - on a young dough. There, a heavily softened dough is made on ripe sourdough 1:10:10, fermented just a little (2 hours) until a slight increase of 20% and kneaded into the dough. Fermentation 3-4 hours, then proofing for 3 hours. In the end, it's still sour bread

What am I doing wrong? Is it time to sprout rye and put on a Frenchwoman? So the leaven seems to be beautiful, it smells great, it's a pity to kill ...

Let's see what it means to fail? Do you bake rye or wheat? Does the leaven increase 2 or more times? Do you start baking when the leaven stops rising?

I baked wheat bread on rye dough, just like the first time. French bread program. I posted it in HP at the peak, but had to postpone the start for 4 hours due to circumstances. The dough turned out to be liquid, flour was added during kneading. The dough has risen slightly, heavy, dull, not baked. Yesterday I took the leaven out of the refrigerator and fed it. This morning I fed it more, put it in a saucepan with warm water, now it has risen, I'll go try again.

[Gibus]

I baked wheat bread on rye dough, just like the first time. French bread program. I posted it in HP at the peak, but had to postpone the start for 4 hours due to circumstances. The dough turned out to be liquid, flour was added during kneading. The dough has risen slightly, heavy, dull, not baked. Yesterday I took the leaven out of the refrigerator and fed it. This morning I fed it more, put it in a saucepan with warm water, now it has risen, I'll go try again.

Baking sourdough bread in cotton according to the program is difficult. HP kneads the dough before baking and it falls off. I also baked on French bread. First, with 1/4 spoon of yeast - everything is fine. Only with sourdough the same parsley as yours. And without hesitation I switched to the oven. If you don't have an oven, I can suggest this option. Knead the dough on the standard program (preliminary kneading, pause, kneading), shake out the bun on your hand, take out the spatula, the bun back to HP. Unplug HP from the socket. Watch the rise and the state of the dough (when the dough begins to reluctantly return its shape after pressing with your finger, you need to bake, or (found here on the forum) you can try when you put on the proofer to pinch off a piece of dough from the dough and roll it into a ball the size of a walnut and put it in a glass of water at room temperature, when the dough comes up, you need to bake it. This method is for a slightly different situation, but you should check if it will work). Bake on the baking program.

Gibus, try to bake Fluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough preserving the recipe and technology. When I baked it for the first time, I was very surprised by the similarity in taste to the store one. I had to change the recipe a little to have sourdough bread.

[Gibus]

Gibus, try to bake Fluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough preserving the recipe and technology. When I baked it for the first time, I was very surprised by the similarity in taste to the store one. I had to change the recipe a little to have sourdough bread.

I tried it. This was the first recipe I tried. I took a ripe starter at its peak.
Sour, alas, is ... It remains to try another option with fermentation of the dough for 8 hours in the cold.

Another failure. The bread did not rise and was not baked. But I found flour 1 and 2 grades. I'll try to overfeed. Wow and stubborn me! I’m the type of woman to watch porn movies to the end, hoping there’s a wedding at the end. Maybe my bread will finally arrange a holiday for me?

Another failure. The bread did not rise and was not baked. But I found flour 1 and 2 grades. I'll try to overfeed. Wow and stubborn me! I’m the type of woman to watch porn movies to the end, hoping there’s a wedding at the end. Maybe my bread will finally arrange a holiday for me?

Does the leaven increase 2 or more times?

Have you tried turning off HP for the duration of the proofing?
If the leaven rises, then the dough should rise. This is unlikely to work on auto programs.

[McCleod]

McCleod turned off, stood for almost 2 hours, but rose very little. Maybe I'm doing the wrong bookmark? I put the flour first, then everything else, then the leaven. According to the instructions, I have dry ingredients first.
The leaven is doubled exactly, maybe more. Smells good, bubbles.

Let's try this. Knead the dough on the program, pull out the spatula and do not turn off the HP (washing the dough on the program after kneading begins to heat somewhere up to 38 degrees). Almost two hours may not be enough. When the program ends, turn on the "dough" again. As a result, you will get about two and a half hours of proofing in a warm place.
I bake Fluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough, it takes me about 2.5 hours to proofing, then molding and somewhere else an hour. This is for comparison (I warm up).
And yet, on the bread you can see traces of lifting during baking (breaks in the sides and dome)?
If you stood in a warm place (battery, etc.), you could miss above 40 degrees, and then the same result as yours.

If you turn on the Dough again, kneading will begin even without a spatula. He won't spoil the bun?
I defended directly in HP.She also warms up, then the program ended, and I left the dough in the same place for a while. Then she turned on Baking (I call it Browning). The lifting marks are visible, the roof was torn. Although this was rare on yeast bread. This is most likely due to the fact that it stood for a long time and the top got windy, and broke during baking.

Here is the latest result True, the docha chewed the lid a little, but the general condition was something like this.

Here is the latest result True, the docha chewed the lid a little, but the general condition was something like this.

I'm afraid to be mistaken, but if I did it, I would immediately sin on a small amount of water. Is the kolobok normal?
Help the guru !!!!

On the contrary, it seemed to me that it was watery. The gingerbread man was, but a little smeared along the bottom.

If you turn on the dough again, then even without a spatula, kneading will begin. He won't spoil the bun?
I defended directly in HP. She also warms up, then the program ended, and I left the dough in the same place for a while. Then she turned on Baking (I call it Browning). The lifting marks are visible, the roof was torn. Although this was rare on yeast bread. This is most likely due to the fact that it stood for a long time and the top got windy, and broke during baking.

Kneading without a paddle with one shaft will do nothing to the dough at all.
It is necessary to increase "some time".
How many times has the dough increased in volume (approximately)?
All the same, turn on the dough program again.
"Browning" for how long?
In HP, the top is unlikely to wind up.
The roof was torn because the dough had not risen and the baking had already started. From above, the dough begins to fry, and from the inside, under the influence of temperature, the dough rises reactively and tears the roof.
Yeast bread rises several times faster and when baking begins, it has almost risen to the end.

The gingerbread man was, but a little smeared along the bottom.

Strange, what recipe are you trying?
How much flour / liquid do you have?
The gingerbread man on wheat should be normal, as in master class with Admin

I have a recipe from the instructions, adapted for 400 gr. flour (originally 540 gr). 400 gr. flour 230 ml. liquids.
Since the leaven is thin, I reduced the amount of liquid by 20 ml. When kneading, I saw that it was still liquid and added more flour. At first there was a good bun, but at the end of kneading the dough began to smear along the bottom. It was too late to add more flour, the daub was small, I decided that it would be fine anyway.

I bake 220 g of water and 45 oil for 550 g of flour. Isn't your sourdough 100% (1/1 water - flour).
Try to bake Fluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough... I seem to have mastered it and it will be easier for me to help you if you bake the same bread. Well, if one gets used to it, then most likely everything will work out with the rest.
Or maybe the experienced ones will answer, for example Viki

[NatusyaD]

NatusyaD For example, I think that the dough has not fully risen and therefore such a roof. : girl_red: When it's not ripe for me (I bake in a silicone mold in the oven), it's not the roof that cracks, but cracks on the sides. And since you have HP, the roof is cracking.

Share how to put it in a warm place when the batteries have already been turned off and it is not summer outside?

I put it in a yogurt maker.

I bake 220 g of water and 45 oil for 550 g of flour. Isn't your sourdough 100% (1/1 water - flour).
Try to bake Fluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough... I seem to have mastered it and it will be easier for me to help you if you bake the same bread. Well, if one gets used to it, then most likely everything will work out with the rest.
Or perhaps the experienced ones will answer, for example Viki

As for the proportions, I, of course, could be mistaken, because I measure with cups, which I adapted and lined with a marker at the very beginning. But for 550 flour, 220 water, in my opinion, should turn out very thick. Or the flour is so different.
I also tried to make the sourdough 1/1 - very thick, you can't even knead it with a spoon. I add a little more water than the recipe recommends.
I am overfeeding the second grade starter culture now and there is a lot of it. I decided to conduct an experiment.I put 2/3 of the starter culture directly into the HP, added flour, water, kneaded for 5 minutes (feeding), covered with a film and left until evening. In the evening I'll add everything else and try to bake some bread.
My most visited topic lately - What to do with "yesterday's" bread

Kneading without a paddle with one shaft will do nothing to the dough at all.
It is necessary to increase "some time".
How many times has the dough increased in volume (approximately)?
All the same, turn on the dough program again.
"Browning" for how long?
In HP, the top is unlikely to wind up.
The roof was torn because the dough had not risen and the baking had already started. From above, the dough begins to fry, and from the inside, under the influence of temperature, the dough rises reactively and tears the roof.
Yeast bread rises several times faster and when baking begins, it has almost risen to the end.

I will turn on the batch 2 times
"for a while" I will increase
The dough has increased by 1.5 times (approximately)
Browning for 1 hour. (in all programs, baking takes 1 hour if you put a medium crust)

Share how to put it in a warm place when the batteries have already been turned off and it is not summer outside?

and if you put it on a double boiler? what temperature is allowed? gr. 40 ..?

and if you put it on a double boiler? what temperature is allowed? gr. 40 ..?

How to create a temperature of 30 degrees at home for proving the dough? https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=149968.0

How to create a temperature of 30 degrees at home for proving the dough? https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=149968.0

thanks, I decided that an electric blanket would be the most comfortable
otherwise I have already tried to heat it up in a double boiler a couple of times, and cooked twice
two small children, the temperature regime is difficult to maintain

oh, how to sleep hunting. With some foolishness, I put the dough in the evening, but it doesn't fit. I left it overnight, turned on delayed baking. But, apparently, it was ready earlier and by the time of baking it was already sour, the roof fell. I got up at night, went to check, and the bread was not baked. I put it on baking too, but I don't have less than an hour. I had to wait 20 minutes. Then she pulled out and went to sleep. But she was upset and did not fall asleep.
My daughter did not eat bread, she said that she smells like rotten cheese. The husband did not say anything, but at lunchtime he gnawed a loaf of a week ago, and did not touch the bread. Fluffy on sourdough didn't work. I did not dare to bake in the oven at night. I'll leave everything until the weekend, then I'll be sophisticated.

oh, how to sleep hunting. With some foolishness, I put the dough in the evening, but it doesn't fit. I left it overnight, turned on delayed baking. But, apparently, it was ready earlier and by the time of baking it was already sour, the roof fell. I got up at night, went to check, and the bread was not baked. I put it on baking too, but I don't have less than an hour. I had to wait 20 minutes. Then she pulled out and went to sleep. But she was upset and did not fall asleep.
My daughter did not eat bread, she said that she smells like rotten cheese. The husband didn’t say anything, but at lunchtime he gnawed a loaf of a week ago, but didn’t touch the bread. Fluffy on sourdough didn't work. I did not dare to bake in the oven at night. I'll leave everything until the weekend, then I'll be sophisticated.

This is some kind of trouble.

Let's bake together this weekend?
All. From feeding the sourdough, to cutting the loaf in stages, in the photo in the studio.

Let's bake together this weekend?

Should I go to you? Or do you come to me? It's not far, 2669 km. just.

Should I go to you? Or do you come to me? It's not far, 2669 km. just.

...
All. From feeding the sourdough, to cutting the loaf in stages, in the photo in the studio.
...

[McCleod, NatusyaD]

McCleod, NatusyaD !
Be sure to unsubscribe - very interesting, I read like Hugo! Just don't be offended, this is a joke! Well this is baking nationwide !!! From Moscow to the very outskirts!

I was not friends with the eternal. She didn’t want to obey me! Here's a French one - it always worked the first time. And this one doesn't.I put it on again, wanted rye breads without overfeeding the Frenchwoman for rye flour, and to keep the leaven in the refrigerator.
Grown at room temperature - 27 degrees. The first day - "smelled", rose a little. The second day - rose 3 times in 5 hours. Opal. "It stank." The third day - zero movement. The smell became more pleasant. She began to feed her 1: 1: 1 twice a day - that is, 50 g of leaven, 50 g of water. and rye flour 50 gr. I fed it for two days - zero movement, it smells good sour.
In the end, I got tired of it all and I poured a pinch of homemade malt into her at the next feeding. I germinate a grain of rye so that the sprout is the size of a grain or slightly larger. Then I dry it and grind it in a coffee grinder. This is my homemade malt, which I sometimes add to bread or porridge.
After such feeding, the leaven flooded madly
I immediately baked bread from it - it rose perfectly.
So I suspect that in the process of "feeding" a kilo-lactic bacteria multiplied in the sourdough, and the yeast bacteria could not stand such a riot of sour milk and became modest like poor relatives. Malt added yeast and balance was finally established
If next time I grow this sourdough, I probably won't wait a day. If it rises on the second day earlier, then I will feed earlier, not exactly in a day.

And you will have to store it only in the refrigerator - at our house now it is 29-30 degrees. Ideal for proving bread, and for leavening the master of the leaven is a nightmare - problematic.

[McCleod]

McCleod, well, no sense of humor! You don't seriously think that I rushed to buy tickets? on a broomstick...

[McCleod, NatusyaD]

McCleod, NatusyaD !
Be sure to unsubscribe - very interesting, I read like Hugo! Just don't be offended, this is a joke!

What to be offended at? I have a good sense of humor. McCleod, don't think it's a stone in your garden

In the end, I got tired of it all and I poured a pinch of homemade malt into her at the next feeding. I sprout a grain of rye so that the sprout is the size of a grain or slightly larger. Then I dry it and grind it in a coffee grinder. This is my homemade malt, which I sometimes add to bread or porridge.
After such feeding, the leaven flooded madly

Just about !!! Can you tell us more about malt? Only I don't have rye grain, I have wheat. Can you use it too?
My mother recently went to the village to visit a friend. And she baked bread with hop sourdough. So the dough almost ran around the kitchen, rose, and the lid was ripped off the pan. I haven’t told my mother yet that I’m trying to grow sourdough, she doesn’t tolerate such a transfer of products. So she didn't know that she needed to take both the leaven and the recipe. She promised to bring it. And we also have a lot of hops in the summer, but it will only ripen in the fall, and now there is a hunt for bread.
So I want to try it with malt for now, and then with hops. I wonder if you can eat "drunken" bread while driving?

And you will have to store it only in the refrigerator - at our house now it is 29-30 degrees. Ideal for proving bread, and for leavening the master of the leaven is a nightmare - problematic.

We also have almost summer heat. Beautyaa

and if you put it on a double boiler? what temperature is allowed? gr. 40 ..?

I would put it in a multicooker for heating. Put a jar of sourdough in a saucepan with water. On the bottom with a cloth or silicone mat. After an hour, you can turn off and leave with the lid closed. The temperature will be kept like in a thermos.

Can you tell us more about malt? Only I don't have rye grain, I have wheat. Can you use it too?

I take grain (wheat is also possible). I rinse, soak in a jar for 12 hours in water. I usually do it at night. In the morning I drain and cover with a lid. In the evening I wash it again, drain the water. I cover it again. Already types of hatched roots. In principle, you can start drying the grains when they are 1-2 mm long.But for the best quality malt, you need to wait until the roots grow a grain length or more. The seeds do not germinate evenly. You can focus on the larger part. It turns out somewhere 3-4 days. Then spread out in an even layer and dry at room temperature. I grind the dried grain in portions in a coffee grinder. I leave it for another 1-2 days for final drying - and in a jar woo-a-la!

So, let's start the experiment!
Today is April 13, Friday, passionate. It was a hard day.
I read a lot about sourdough, decided to try to feed my former rye, overfed for the 2nd grade sourdough, with kefir. I did not dare to experiment with everything, divided it into 2 parts and fed one as usual with 2 grade + water, and the second part 2 grade + kefir. Here's what happened:

The bank behind which is kefir is kefir. I put it in the microwave. The house is warm, but just in case, she hid it from the drafts.
We'll see tomorrow. There are a lot of plans, if only it works!

[New vitamin]

New vitamin Thank you! I ran to soak the grain, I want to try all the ways and choose my own.

So, let's start the experiment!
Today is April 13, Friday, passionate. It was a hard day.
I read a lot about sourdough, decided to try to feed my former rye, overfed for the 2nd grade sourdough, with kefir. I did not dare to experiment with everything, divided it into 2 parts and fed one as usual with 2 grade + water, and the second part 2 grade + kefir. Here's what happened:

The bank behind which is kefir is kefir. I put it in the microwave. The house is warm, but just in case, she hid it from the drafts.
We'll see tomorrow. There are a lot of plans, if only it works!

On the advice of Viki, I feed the sourdough before baking 2 times. Now I have reached the formula: X + 4X + 20X = Y, where Y is the required amount of starter culture + starter for the next one (I adjust the total to a multiple of 25), X is a starter, the first feeding is 2X water + 2X flour, the second is 10X water + 10X flour. The intervals are 12 hours, the sourdough rises just right (it turns out it processes the feeding 1/2/2 in 12 hours, if your sourdough is stronger, you need to increase the proportions (1/3/3, X + 6X + 42X = Y), if weaker - decrease (1/1/1, X + 2X + 6X = Y)). If you need to change the time between feedings, change it in direct proportion.

I just see you have a lot of sourdough in the jars. After the first feeding, everything can fit in a tablespoon, after the second about 300 ml, it rises to 700-800 ml.

I take grain (wheat is also possible). I rinse, soak in a jar for 12 hours in water. I usually do it at night. In the morning I drain and cover with a lid. In the evening I wash it again, drain the water. I cover it again. Already types of hatched roots. In principle, you can start drying the grains when they are 1-2 mm long. But for the best quality malt, you need to wait until the roots grow a grain length or more. The seeds do not germinate evenly. You can focus on the larger part. It turns out somewhere 3-4 days. Then spread out in an even layer and dry at room temperature. I grind the dried grain in portions in a coffee grinder. I leave it for another 1-2 days for final drying - and in a jar woo-a-la!

Common grain that chickens are fed with?
After the second rinsing, should it be left without water?
When you lay them out for drying, won't they grow further?
Grind grain only or whole?

Common grain that chickens are fed with?
After the second rinsing, should it be left without water?
When you lay them out for drying, won't they grow further?
Grind grain only or whole?

behold here something you can read

behold here something you can read

Pasibki