Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Lena, I was looking for a cool place all over the apartment - we have nothing like this. A slightly open window is possible only when I am alone at home. Otherwise, my heat-loving men freeze, so I have roast everywhere - they do not heat it childishly, and I had to feed the sourdough at least 2 times a day - in the morning and in the evening, or even three, I came for lunch - I look - and she's done , the cap dropped - it was necessary to give her food again so as not to acidify.
I forget to say that I have 1st grade flour, and even this kind of dark flour, it's all 2nd grade! Of course, the leaven does not eat it, but it eats it straight! ,
and in / with the ladies - so she just refuses to eat - 10-12 o'clock then comes up, and I'm already worried straight - like what are you my good, not growing ?!
maybe it is worth trying a / c feed as the heating is turned off?

but you write that you are mixing, right? do you feed her in / s? and does it not peroxide? what is your temperature under the window?
otherwise my grape was very offended when I put it under the window - I took it, and ... in general, I had to put a new leaven

[rinishek]

rinishek

Eh, straight African ebullient passions you have with men))

I don't really like it in the house above + 22-23 *, I begin to feel like a sleepy fly. SchA near the leaven temp. measured, + 18 * tama. In winter it was less, but it did not fall below + 14 *.
It is natural that the leaven takes on increased obligations to eat flour of the 1st and 2nd grade, there is soooo tasteful. So it spoiled you, it twists in front of your higher nose

Nooo, I sit on the "tower" and does not buzz, oxydates faster, all other things being equal, on more "tasty" flour than on the highest grade. I spoil my own only occasionally with honey and rye flour.

Today, at about one o'clock in the afternoon, I stirred it for the third time, now I have returned - it is again supporting the lid. I don't plan to bake it today or tomorrow, so I'll mix it for the fourth time, and I'll only feed it tomorrow morning.

CURRENT here is a delicate matter, it is necessary to look according to the state, so that it does not "chill" and does not overuse too much

Well, yes, of course, you need your own approach to sourdough, they are all different, like people, each has its own character. I had 4 different ones, and even here is the second Frenchwoman - it is quite different from the one that was last winter

Nothing, we'll find comfortable conditions for her, where to go

Girls, I have a funny question
Do you keep your starter culture in one container all the time?
When I have a sourdough, I do it like this, I collect from one jar what is needed in the dough, from the remains 1 teaspoon into a clean other jar ...
My first one and she's waiting in line ... my laugh
At the tip of (a very old) Zest and Misha
I leave 5 g of sourdough in the morning, add 10 g of flour and 10 g of water until evening,
in the evening, to 25g of sourdough, I add 50g of flour and 50g of water until morning,
in the morning 120 g for baking, 5 g in the first jar, etc.
If I'm not going to bake tomorrow, then the additive is in a 1: 1: 1 ratio,
to reach the same amount.
This is how several seasons have been worked out from the French traditional to the heat.
And there hello ripe dough or a long dough ...

[taty]

When I have sourdough, I do it like this, I collect from one jar what is needed in the dough, from the leftovers 1 teaspoon into another clean jar ...
My first one and she's waiting in line ... my laugh

taty , did not understand, but what's so funny ?? I take a starter from the refrigerator for the dough into a clean jar .. I obviously make more leaven than is needed for the dough. Then I take the required amount into the dough, and add water and flour to the same jar until next time. It so happens that she is fed more times!

[Omela]

Well, what about - fiddling with jars - I say
Omela
interestingly you are doing ...

Girls!
And whoever has already raised Sarychevskaya, or is going to grow, can join forces for a new moon, that is, in 2 weeks, together we will start growing, well, and help each other, so to speak, online. Just let's figure it out together what's what.
And who has already grown, can create a new topic about this leaven

Girls, I have a funny question
Do you keep your starter culture in one container all the time?

I have one can for leaven all the time, I don't wash it all the time, but periodically. Glass half-liter (I bake small loaves of 400 g). This jar weighs exactly 260 g - I always know how much starter I have. Well, almost always my sourdough = dough for bread

Sometimes, when a larger amount of sourdough is required or bread is completely c / z, I transfer it to a measuring liter mug, then my own jar.

I have one can for leaven all the time, I don't wash it all the time, but periodically. Glass half-liter (I bake small loaves of 400 g). This jar weighs exactly 260 g - I always know how much starter I have. Well, almost always my sourdough = dough for bread

Sometimes, when a larger amount of sourdough is required or bread is completely c / z, I transfer it to a measuring liter mug, then my own jar.

Well, just freed me from writing a post Usyo one to one

Len, I’m always happy! - I climb in front
and how I have not yet been slapped in one place for all kinds of advice

[rinishek]

rinishek

Do not dodessssi, we will coast your "one place" so that it is more convenient to sit at the computer and distribute smart tips

Zest
I'll go read about Reinhart's bread, it's time to study - summer is coming soon

Girls!
And whoever has already raised Sarychevskaya, or is going to grow, can join forces for a new moon, that is, in 2 weeks, together we will begin to grow, well, and help each other, so to speak, online. Just let's figure it out together what's what.
And who has already grown, can create a new topic about this leaven

I raised.
I can help, although there is nothing difficult there!
Very simple.

And today I baked the first sourdough bread !!! I chose buckwheat-oat and recalculated the starter culture from Admin to 100% MK. It turned out awesome! I did not even expect that bread with buckwheat flour can rise to the very roof! As delicious as in the country, and the crust, um-mmmmmm! And most importantly, no sourness!
Thanks everyone for your recipes, tips! When my leaven was dying, I reread the whole topic and saved it. So thank you all !!!!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen! I have a question....
Sourdough is great (healthy and tasty), but is it possible to bake sourdough bread according to the standard bread maker program? Without frills like mixed, it costs several hours, then also in the oven.
I didn’t buy a bread maker to bake bread in the oven later (it doesn’t work for me). If you have already bought equipment, then you need to use it in full.
I have carefully read all the recipes using starter cultures, and everything that is on this site on this topic.
And I came to the disappointing conclusion that recipes for sourdough bread using full cycles of the bread maker would have to be invented by myself. But I would like to know if this is possible in principle ...
All that is here is intended, firstly, for large volumes of bread, I don't need more than 700 grams, but these are trifles. And secondly, the recipe "put sourdough instead of yeast", and then the bread maker will do everything - no. Everyone trusts the technique only to knead the dough, and then manual operations of varying degrees of complexity begin.
So is it possible to bake sourdough bread according to the standard bread machine mode? Yes or no? And are there such recipes?

[tu-tu]

tu-tu, welcome to our family

There are many nuances in baking with sourdough that must be controlled manually, since a lot depends on the quality of the sourdough itself. for example, is it strong enough to raise the dough in the time measured by the HP program? that is, you can put the starter culture and start the HP program, but no one can guarantee you that it can be eaten

at bakeries, in order to meet the deadlines, a little yeast is added to sourdough bread. you can do the same in HP. pick up a recipe where the proofing cycles coincide with the HP program, and do it.

if you want to bake bread according to some recipe designed for a larger volume than you need, it is easy to count it for any size. take the weight you need (700g), divide by the weight of the finished bread in the recipe (eg 1000g). get 700: 1000 = 0.7 - this is the coefficient by which you need to multiply all the ingredients in the recipe to get the desired weight of bread in 700g.
_{I do it so often if I am missing an ingredient. for example, you need 100g of butter, but I only have 75. so I divide 75: 100 = 0.75, and count the ingredients}

hope my answers helped you a little

So is it possible to bake sourdough bread according to the standard bread machine mode? Yes or no? And are there such recipes?

A very good recipe was given by Suslya, with sourdough, but in HP.
I baked myself, I liked it!

Girls help! They gave me a sourdough, it is liquid in consistency, what it looks like (in the sense of what it was made on), I don’t know, I read everything, my head was spinning, at that time my leaven stood in the refrigerator for five days, I didn’t understand anything about the sourdough except for one thing it is necessary to feed from what calculation I feed my own I can not understand I have almost half a liter of it left. The day before yesterday I could not stand the baked bread, I took 100 grams for 600-700 grams of flour. It smelled delicious, but the bread was firstly sour, and secondly, it seemed like with a taste of cottage cheese, although she did not put cottage cheese.
Now I'm sitting and I don't know what to do with it, if it's a pity if it disappears, it smells so delicious like apples, but I don't know how to use it. Help good people, don't let the living organism ruin, I myself will definitely not grow it.

Calm, only calm.

Need to feed. Better according to the formula 1: 1: 1. That is, for a certain mass of leaven the same amount of water and so much flour. We don't need a palliter. More precisely, it is necessary, but not leaven. It is necessary to reduce (take 20-50 grams and forward).

Bread can be sour due to a stagnant leaven (many organisms have produced xylots) or due to the type of leaven. There are always high acidity starter cultures. After a few feeding cycles, it will be clear what the reason is. Feed on demand, like a nursing baby. Has reached the peak (rose and bubbles) and began to descend - feed. This stage can be seen from the marks on the edges of the dishes left after lifting. In order not to feed very often and not to throw away flour - put it in a cool place.

girls, here I filmed how the leaven grows after conservation in the refrigerator, according to the technology of Luda mariana-aga from LJ.

this sourdough stood in the khek for 10 days, rye, 180g sourdough (60 flour + 120 water), fed with 180g of fresh dough, in proportion so that the moisture content of the resulting sourdough becomes 85 water per 100 flour. photo report from the scene

just mixed everything:



after an hour of fermentation at 30C



in 3 hours



in 4 hours



so full of holes inside



She took the dishes too little for her .. grew 3 full times, which is a super-mega-achievement for me, but, I tell you, the other rye that I sent all into the dough was more jovial .. true, it is smaller stood, all day 4 ..

Thank you Chuchelka! I fed mine yesterday (at first, though without waiting for an answer, I really poured everything on the eye and poured sugar for some reason with fright) Well, in general, by the evening she got up, but somehow strange, I put half in the refrigerator, left some on the table in the evening the one on the table behaved strangely from above, like a hat of bubbles formed well, it looks like it’s not like that, here in the photo the girls are thick and mine is completely liquid. I'm from 50 gr. somewhere for 500-600g. flour made a dough for pies, the dough did not rise very well, but it behaved well when frying, it tasted normal. Now I sit and think nothing that I have drunk sugar or she does not use it during fermentation (oh, my mind is grief). And how to determine how many grams of sourdough to take for 500-600 gr. flour (well, or per kg).
The fact that the dough with sourdough cannot be compared with the fact that I already understood it using yeast, but as I understood it, I wanted to make friends with her (leaven) even more.

girls, here I filmed how the leaven grows after conservation in the refrigerator, using the technology of Luda mariana-aga from LJ.

this sourdough stood in the khek for 10 days, rye, 180g sourdough (60 flour + 120 water), fed with 180g of fresh dough, in proportion so that the moisture content of the resulting sourdough becomes 85 water per 100 flour. photo report from the scene

Lisss's, thanks for the photo report! I also get such beauty, as much as the eye rejoices.
I also have rye, made according to Ludmilin MK. (Sarycheva)
Please tell me how to translate thick into liquid, how is it with you? And where can you read and learn in detail?

Guys, help me understand what is wrong with me ...
I bake bread according to this recipe:
- salt 3 tsp.
- sugar 1 tbsp. l.
- honey 2.5 tbsp. l. (can be replaced with 3 tablespoons of sugar, but then the "bitterness" will disappear and it will not be that)
- Apple cider vinegar 2 tbsp. l.
- vegetable oil 5 tbsp. l.
- 5 tbsp. l. pour dry kvass in a separate container
450 g boiling water, stir
add 1.5 tbsp. l. coriander, let cool, add to the oven
(since I did not find malt, it turns out a complete replacement from dry kvass)
370 g rye flour
250 g wheat flour
- 3 tsp yeast SAF-Moment
I reduce the amount of all ingredients by 2 times, instead of dry kvass I put 1 tbsp. l. rye malt concentrate. I knead the dough in a bread maker for about 15 minutes, such a semi-liquid comma spins in a bucket, then I turn it off. The dough doesn't rise at all! After a day, it just dries up. I put it on the battery (I cover it with a film), and in the refrigerator, and so I left it. I immediately put the sourdough out of the refrigerator and fed it, waited for it to grow 2 times and then put it in. I put 100 g of starter cultures on 310 g of flour (in the recipe there is only 620 g, it turns out in half, 310. From these 310 I subtract 50 (they will be in the leaven), it turns out 260 g of flour).
I baked this bread with yeast - I really liked it. I want sourdough
Oh yes, wheat bread will raise the leaven, and itself grows 3 times in 5 hours.
Thanks in advance ))

Maybe not compose yourself, but take a good recipe with sourdough?
Otherwise, there is no leaven in the recipe.
Yes, and the leaven probably needs to be revived from the refrigerator, fed, heated, and then used.
I just took out the leaven from the refrigerator (thick rye), fed it, added 50 degrees of water, that is, hot, in the heat at 30 degrees, and after 4 hours I will only start the dough.

[wwwika]

Please tell me how to translate thick into liquid, how is it with you? And where can you read and learn in detail?

wwwika, I store rye sourdough in liquid form in the refrigerator, in a ratio of 1: 2 (for 100 g of flour - 200 g of water).

Here I have fermented a thick leaven for bread, part will go into bread, and a piece - for storage. in this leaven the ratio of flour to water is 1: 0.85. so I add 1.15 more water so that the ratio becomes 1: 2, for storage in a x-ke.

in numbers:

for 100 g of flour - 85 g of water. I add another 115 g of ice water, it turns out for 100 g of flour - 200 g of water, that is, 1: 2. and put it in the refrigerator, sprinkle it with flour for the next refreshment, so that it does not mold.

I do everything according to the recommendations of Luda from LJ, she wrote about it in detail here 🔗

[robin]

robin, and you have wheat or rye leaven?

Lisss's, that is, if I have 25 grams of thick,
then I need to add 25 * 1.15 = 29 grams of water? To make it liquid?

I have 8-9 degrees of heat in my refrigerator, which one should I keep liquid or thick?

And what other rye bread do you bake with this leaven?
THANK YOU!!!!

[wwwika]

wwwika, but initially, in 25 grams of thick leaven, how much water and how much flour?

measure T under the wall on the lowest shelf in the refrigerator - it should be coldest there. in a chemistry it is necessary to store liquid at 4-6C. find where there is 4-6С, in some corner there will definitely be

I baked pure rye yesterday Pioneer Bread from Luda - it's such a seed recipe 🔗

I also bake Ukrainian and Darnitsky, I love them

For 100 grams of flour, 65 grams of water.
It's thick.

and at 25 how to count, I got confused. My son is already laughing at me! Mom, you forgot how to count interest !!!!! And I'm already just confused.
If everything was on the shelves and clearly written, it would be easier. Or I don't know where to read.

I have an old refrigerator, I don't have such a temperature. I searched but did not find !!!!!

[wwika]

wwika, my mind for the mind goes when I start to count the horror .. so do not worry, you are not the only one

I usually think so

for 100 flour - 65 water, then the total leaven is (100 + 65 =) 165g

and we actually have it 25 g.

you need 25: 165 = 0.15.

0,15 is the coefficient

we know that in 165 leavens we have 100 flour and 65 water. to find out how much flour and water is 25, you need to multiply flour and water by a factor.

which means that flour in our 25g of sourdough will be: 100 * 0.15 = 15g
water will be: 65 * 0.15 = 9.8g = 10g

in total, in 25g of sourdough we have 15g of flour and 10g of water. counted

that is, you have 15 flour and 10 water, and for liquid sourdough water should be 2 times more than flour... i.e., water should be 15 * 2 = 30g. we already have 10g of water in the leaven. we need 30, which means 30-10 = 20g of water.

that is, if you add 20 g of water, we will have 15 g of flour + 30 g of water! and sprinkle this liquid sourdough with flour on top (be sure to weigh how much), write everything down on a piece of paper, and put it in a cold storage

wwwika, well, how did it become a little clearer, or even more confused?

about T in x-ke - I think you can store it at 8-9, just not up to 15 days, but let's say, to refresh every week .. there it will still slow down the processes .. you can try

ABOUT!!! I began to understand a little !!!!
And sprinkle with flour, that is, the amount with which we will refresh.
How much is this?
if you get 45 grams of liquid, then how to refresh it later? To count these proportions again?
the impression is that everyone understands (the pros), and the students are knock-knock. When I do MK knitting, then I paint so that everything is clear.

Is it necessary to store it in liquid form in the refrigerator? I keep a 1: 1 leaven in the h-ke, and it seems like it lives. I bake bread every 3 days, during breaks I do not touch the sourdough. I would be crazy every time to count to convert to liquid, and then count back to convert to 100% humidity. Although, I was very friendly with mathematics at school.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong and think that everything is good with my leaven?
But I applaud you girls. Well this is a regular brain training - to recalculate the coefficients.

I brought out the thick.
Store Lyudmila writes that it is better in a liquid state.

I just want to understand and learn!
I baked in French for a year and a half and grew a new one several times. She fed constantly.
But I want something new, to improve the taste! Because the bread with the new sourdough tastes much better than later ... it's getting worse and worse.
So you want everything to be exact, to make the whole process correct.
Suddenly, I do not do something, there is a mistake. And there is no one to try, Kherson girls, pull yourself up !!!!! Can the process go better together?
here the girls seem to have gathered on the growing moon in a couple of weeks to put the leaven.
Here we will torture you with questions !!!! : mad: and I hope we find the answers!

here the girls seem to have gathered on the growing moon in a couple of weeks to put the leaven.
Here we will torture you with questions !!!! : mad: and I hope we find the answers!

Maybe put myself on Syrachevsky. By the way, I tried, like hers there, to turn on the heating pad to a minimum, on top of the grate, put a rag on top and put the leaven. I measured the temperature - exactly 30 degrees. Wow.

And I bought a heating pad at the pharmacy, just 29 degrees on the first speed, temperature switch.

[robin]

robin, and you have wheat or rye leaven?

In this case, we are talking about rye. (there is also wheat) I make the leaven like this: with the remains of the previous one, about a tablespoon or two, I mix 80 g of flour and 80 g of water. I thought, maybe there are ingredients in that recipe that are not friendly with sourdough? Honey, there, or vinegar ...
And another question - will such bread raise wheat leaven? if I replace some of the wheat flour and water with wheat sourdough, and not rye, as usual

And I bought a heating pad at the pharmacy, just 29 degrees on the first speed, temperature switch.

Cool! And I have an old one, a rug with a cord, also apply to all sore spots. On the switch two speeds two modes. I ran to measure, at first just on the grate - hot, put a couple of kitchen rags on top - not enough.In general, I ran to one small rag on the grate, just 29-30 comes out.

And about the leaven, just trying to understand. If I'm fine with bread and sourdough, do I need to bother with these coefficients?

[wwwika]

wwwika, I'm so glad that something cleared up from my "treatise", otherwise I write and think - to tell - it's quick and clear, but how you start to write - well, horrible ...

And sprinkle with flour, that is, the amount with which we will refresh.
How much is this?

I usually sprinkle the same amount of flour on top as there is in the sourdough - that is, in our case, we have 15g of flour in sourdough, we pour 15 evenly on the surface so that it covers the wet and the sourdough does not mold.

when you are going to bake - you need to read in the recipe what moisture the leaven is required for this recipe. and refresh accordingly, so that the ratio of flour and water is obtained at the exit, as it should be according to the recipe. with a specific example, it will be possible to make out how to assemble the stove

I generally understood that baking is mathematics, in fact

[robin]

And another question - will such bread raise wheat leaven? if I replace some of the wheat flour and water with wheat sourdough, and not rye, as usual

robin, I know that bread with rye flour raises rye sourdough, wheat can not cope ..

on the issue of honey or vinegar - I can't help you here, I only baked simple recipes with sourdough, flour and water, maximum malt and seeds, so you have to wait for someone from the pros ..

Yes, I also agree that it is better to add heavy flour (rye or wheatgrain) to the leaven, and then it is easier to add wheat flour to the dough ...

I'm not a pro, but about honey I can say - I always add honey to rye breads, since I don't have molasses. Everything seems to be fine.

But I never baked with vinegar. And what does vinegar give bread?

[here]

But I never baked with vinegar. And what does vinegar give bread?

Nuuu ... I understood that the sourness ... But in general, after reading several topics once, including this one, I realized that you can bake any bread with sourdough, replace yeast with it, so I'm trying
The recipe, by the way, lies here

As far as I know, acid is added to the bread dough to neutralize the breadstick. The sourdough produces the acid itself, so there is no need to add it if the sourdough is present.

Why vinegar if the oven is sourdough. It itself contains acid. Honey, add molasses to taste.

Hey! The moon is growing and so is the leaven! Who was going to do Sarychevskaya?
I still had some misunderstanding during the removal process.
If you read the Sarychevsky recipe in Ludmilin LJ and how she does it later, the difference in temperature and the amount of flour and water in each new kolobok.
At Sarychev's temperature, at first t25-26, when the starter was obtained - the breeding continues and the acidity increases at t30, each time you take away half of the kolobok - you add 1/3. That is, the weight of the kolobok gradually decreases.
Lyudmila has the whole process at t30, and the weight is taken away and added somehow well, it's not very clear on what principle.
And I didn’t manage to bury the bun - I dug out the bun. What remained of the kolobok at 12 o'clock had to be carefully pry on from below and pulled out, it all the time tried to be distributed in different directions. And the "kolobok" itself gained a lot in weight due to the surrounding flour, ie flour was actively involved in the fermentation process, so it is difficult to talk about any constant moisture inside the kolobok.
It didn’t work for me so that all the “bad” bacteria died at once, the “good” ones waited - and let’s explore new territory. That is, there was no such thing that the kolobok froze at some stage, and then suddenly began to crack, as described by Lyudmila. In my koloboks, fermentation processes went on all the time.
I don't really want to try for acidity, if there are still "bad" ones.
In general, in terms of timing and appearance, the sourdough should already be obtained, but the smell is not yet that "yummy" which should be (3.5 days have passed). So I keep updating the kolobok.
I'd like to get the opinions of fermentation experts about all of the above.

Girls, the acidity from the acid in the dough is not the main thing. The acid affects some internal biochemical processes. Currently, accelerated bread production (and this is the largest part) use acid additives as an improver.

It is not without reason that the dough made with yeast and sourdough was called sour - it matured and took a long time to ferment, the flora managed to produce a sufficient amount of acid.

difference in temperature and the amount of flour and water in each new kolobok.

Perhaps it is important that not 30 degrees at once, but 25-26. I have 30-31 degrees on the battery. I put it on a bowl a little higher and achieved the desired temperature.
I did everything exactly as described.

What was left of the kolobok at 12 o'clock had to be carefully pry on from below and pulled out, it all the time tried to be distributed in different directions.

Only once did it turn out differently from her: when nothing happens for her for 24 hours, my bun still cracks.
The rest is similar.
Crust, do you have rye wallpaper flour?

Wait for the fourth day. The smell will be "mind-blowing" So strong !!!!! Straight fruit!

Flour? .... Right now I'll check it .... Belovodye Rye wallpaper flour - everything is fine

So I first started the sourdough, and then I started to think. No, so on the contrary. I did everything not according to the description of the Sarychev recipe, but according to Lyudmila's pictures with comments
In the afternoon, from what was, I already kneaded another kolobok in Sarychev way: I took half, and increased this half by 1.5 times. Now I looked, finally it turned out to be a bun with cracks, I haven't looked inside yet.

Well yes. The result is a "correct" smell. But my old "eternal" smelled the same, and was more active. True, I have not baked on this (Sarychevskaya) one, maybe it will open up in bread ...? ...
It's not clear yet what for why so much fuss with koloboks, burials ...
And wallpaper flour cost me more than peeled flour. It is undoubtedly better, but I would prefer to put it into bread, rather than transfer it to the starter.
The stove will most likely be only the day after tomorrow, but for now I am feeding this young lady further.

..... I just want to understand and learn!
I baked in French for a year and a half, and grew a new one several times. She fed constantly.
But I want something new, to improve the taste! Because the bread with the new sourdough tastes much better than later ... it's getting worse and worse.
So you want everything to be exact, to make the whole process correct.
Suddenly, I do not do something, there is a mistake. And there is no one to try, Kherson girls, pull yourself up !!!!! Can the process go better together?
here the girls seem to have gathered on the growing moon in a couple of weeks to put the leaven.
Here we will torture you with questions !!!! : mad: and I hope we find the answers!

Here I also want to understand everything, learn. When will we begin, torment each other with questions?
And then I have a feeling that I'm alone in torment.