Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Well, since in this thread they ask questions about sourdoughs, I'll ask mine, maybe stupid:

Tell me, if you make sourdough on rye flour, and then bake wheat bread (white) on its basis, how will this affect the taste? Will it not acidify? Won't you give rye flour? This is my first sourdough, I made it from rye flour, I don’t risk it from wheat flour, after reading the information on the forum, but I want to try wheat bread

I can say for sure from my already quite extensive experience 2.5 months. almost daily baking, of which 1.5 months. baking with pure sourdough: rye flour through the sourdough acquires completely different qualities and does not feel like rye flour in bread. And you can grow the sourdough on wheat flour, I took a chance. She's mad! Just flour and water, no additives. Growing up like crazy. And the bread on it turns out to be divine, it sprouts beautifully, the porosity is magnificent, the sourness is barely perceptible. Considering that I do not add anything other than flour, water, leaven and salt to it, it is simply delicious. Sometimes a couple of tablespoons of sunflower oil, so as not to dry out quickly. But I noticed that sourdough bread does not dry as quickly as yeast bread. So try it, grow it, you don't risk anything, except with a little flour.

Well, since in this thread they ask questions about sourdoughs, I'll ask mine, maybe stupid:

Tell me, if you make sourdough on rye flour, and then bake wheat bread (white) on its basis, how will this affect the taste? Will it not acidify? Won't you give rye flour? This is my first sourdough, I made it from rye flour, I don’t risk it from wheat flour, after reading the information on the forum, but I want to try wheat bread

Here is a recipe for wheat bread with lactic rye sourdough

Sourdough White Wheat Bread, Sour by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1077.0

Has anyone tried to bake bread from one sourdough, only adding flour to the desired bun? And then there is already too much leaven ... What are the consequences? Like, upset stomach, dizziness, fainting?

Check out recipes for bread Admin, MISHA, Raisins, Alexandra, Viki, there you will find answers

Dear Ladies! (And gentlemen, if any are available!)
The question is: Has anyone tried adding cornmeal to the starter culture, or shouldn't you? I just thought? if the sourdough is cooked on potato broth, and this is starch, then maybe you can use corn flour? And then something cornbread is not impressive. Maybe it will be more interesting through the leaven?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Check out my MK-leaven topic. There, at the end of the topic, there are several non-standard starters, including several types of flour.

[Admin,]

Admin, continuing the topic,

I just recount recipes for starter cultures, then what I do meticulously and feed 100% starter culture all the time. It contains equal parts of water and flour by weight.
Weigh the remainder and put it in storage. For example, its 100 g. I take 50 g of flour and water and feed them.

Then in recipes, adding 200 g of sourdough, I subtract 100 g of flour and water from the recipe

[Alexandra]

Alexandra
Likewise. I feed the leaven strictly 50/50, each time using a scale. But I always know for sure that if I add 100 g of sourdough to the dough, then 50 g of flour and 50 g of water should be taken away from the recipe.

Dear Colleagues! After reading my favorite forum, I have grown myself a wonderful MK leaven. She baked rye bread on it and already started to respect herself. It turned out just super. Even my husband, who was always dissatisfied with my experiments, evaluated the result positively.I decided to experiment with wheat and the result was disappointing. The loaf turned out to be dense and grayish in color, although the taste is not bad. Yeast was added along with the leaven. 1/2 of the usual recipe. Got a question. Maybe the sourdough is only suitable for rye bread? Although they bake wonderful wheat without yeast in the village?

I did not dare to feed my sourdough with corn flour, but did it differently: I took 0.5 cups of sourdough, added 0.5 cups of corn flour and 0.5 cups of curdled milk to it, and when the whole mass grew and boiled properly, I added an egg, 1/4 tsp salt, 1 tbsp. l. sugar, 2 tablespoons of vegetable oil, vanillin on the tip of a knife and a little soda with citric acid. And it turned out to be absolutely delicious corn pancakes !!! To tear yourself away from them over human strength! Especially with quince jam
P. S. did not have time to insert a photo, because the pancakes were destroyed in a few seconds ...

Dear forum users! I would like to know how much yeast one table corresponds to. a spoonful of sourdough (I have an eternal sourdough on rye flour with water) I would like to bake rye bread, Borodinsky on sourdough completely. Here I am trying to add sourdough to my favorite recipes while reducing the amount of yeast. But for now, he's blowing the roof off on bread. As far as I understand this is from a large amount of yeast or sourdough. How do you know the proportion, or just by trial and error?

Dear forum users! I would like to know how much yeast one table corresponds to. a spoonful of sourdough (I have an eternal sourdough on rye flour with water) I would like to bake rye bread, Borodinsky on sourdough completely. Here I am trying to add sourdough to my favorite recipes while reducing the amount of yeast. But for now, he's blowing the roof off on bread. As far as I understand this is from a large amount of yeast or sourdough. How do you know the proportion, or just by trial and error?

Try turning off the oven and giving the bread an extra proof for at least an hour. Recently in the evening I have been kneading the dough for bread on the main mode, I bring it to baking (only 2.20 on the main mode), turn off the oven, take the bucket out into the cold until the morning (I have 15 degrees there), the dough rises well overnight, you can bake it. I add yeast to the dough 0.25 of the required amount, the rest is MK leaven. about 250g of sourdough per 500g of flour.

Good evening. Forgive a newbie in baking, I read a lot of topics, but I still do not understand: it is better to use the sourdough when it has fully risen or began to settle after rising and put the remaining half in the refrigerator immediately after feeding, at the peak of the rise or after settling. There are many links on this issue to but I write that the page does not exist anymore and if I am mariana-aga then I have 30 days to restore it. Thanks in advance

Good evening. Forgive a newbie in baking, I read a lot of topics, but I still do not understand: it is better to use the sourdough when it has fully risen or began to settle after rising and put the remaining half in the refrigerator immediately after feeding, at the peak of the rise or after settling. There are many links on this issue to but I write that the page does not exist anymore and if I am mariana-aga then I have 30 days to restore it. Thanks in advance

On the restoration of Lyudmila's journal (mariana-aga) there is already a whole Temka
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=8892.0

As for the leaven, I generally use the leaven from the refrigerator. I knead the dough on it for 10-12 hours, and then knead the dough. I adopted this method from Ain.
🔗
Good luck!

Dear starters !!! Please tell me if I understood correctly that sourdough can initially be made both on sour kefir and on milk (regular or melted)? And principle 1 is the same - you wait until it exfoliates and the film appears, add flour (again, if you understand correctly, any to taste) and the magic begins? ...

Details can be found and seen here:

Lactic acid starter culture by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3394.0

List of starter cultures grown and used on the forum
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8152.0

Romochka, dear, I was here and read everything ... Maybe today I just have a hard time thinking at all, but I didn't understand ... If it's not difficult for you, please explain ...
PS I know that you are already writing and reading the same thing in questions 100 times.

I just don’t understand, do you use sourdough from sour milk in mk?

not Admin, but I can insert my own 5 kopecks. I feed my lactic acid one with what I have: kefir, and sour milk, and whey, and even fresh milk. And she is still alive. But now I'm so brave, and 5 months ago, when I just started growing it, of course I did everything clearly according to the instructions.

[Elninio]

Elninio , to understand the matter, I will ask a counter question:

What Lactic acid foods? For brevity, I have written MK-leaven.

Lactic acid products are products made from fermented milk (not fresh!), Such as kefir, yogurt, yogurt, sour milk, sour cream, cottage cheese, curd whey and similar fermented dairy products.

What are aged (old) lactic acid foods?

These are products made from fermented milk (see explanations above), which are not freshly prepared, which have expired for their use (for store products), which have been in the refrigerator for a long time.
For use in bakery and cooking, it is preferable to use aged MK-products, since they acquire the properties of yeast, and they lose their sour taste during cooking.

Therefore, it is preferable to specifically age lactic acid products for about 5-10 days in the refrigerator.

And for other questions you can very detailed read and most importantly see the pictures in the topic:

Lactic acid starter culture by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3394.0


if you, of course, decided to make MK-leaven.

Good luck!

kavachka, Romochka, thank you very much !!!! ))))) I left to get milk from the refrigerator))))))
PS Admin, decided and how! Now mk is on milk, and next time on kefir ... there is no kefir just at hand, and I studied your topic all day and got really sick of ideas to have such a useful "pet"! ))))

put the sourdough on rye flour and whey.
behaves like Admin in the master class.
today at 15:00 for the third time I fed it - it rose quite strongly, with bubbles in the cut, but an alcoholic smell appeared - is this normal? or throw it away?

+ according to the baking technology - it is also unclear ... I want to bake bread without yeast, on the same sourdough ... but, I see, different authors - different proofing times (varies from 2 to 12 hours). I understand that ferments can be strong and not very + the number of ferments in the dough is also different, but so that the proofing time is so different!

put the sourdough on rye flour and whey.
behaves like Admin in the master class.
today at 15:00 for the third time I fed it - it rose quite strongly, with bubbles in the cut, but an alcoholic smell appeared - is this normal? or throw it away?

+ according to the baking technology - it is also unclear ... I want to bake bread without yeast, on the same sourdough ... but, I see, different authors - different proofing times (varies from 2 to 12 hours). I understand that ferments can be strong and not very + the number of ferments in the dough is also different, but so that the proofing time is so different!

Do not throw anything away, everything worked out for you.
And the proving time really depends on the strength of the leaven and the proving temperature.
If allowed to stand in a cool room, then it will take more than 6 hours for wheat sourdough, and even more for rye.
The proofing time also depends on what kind of bread you want to get: sour, cf. acid or without acidity.

Hello dear bakers! I'm still a beginner. If it weren't for your advice, I wouldn't have succeeded at all. The first two breads just had to be thrown away, the rest - there were 3 of them - tasty, but not perfect, then dense, then failed ...Despite these shortcomings, we eat them completely (we began to eat more bread). But the cupcake and charlotte were a success. Our family is small, 2 people.
We decided that we would do it with sourdough without yeast at all. In order not to swell like koloboks, and there is more benefit.
Yesterday I set the kefir to age to make it according to the Admin recipe, bought fresh, apparently will have to wait a long time, put it on the battery.
And the second - "eternal", but instead of water I poured carbonated water - "Shadrinskaya" (since the water was only tap water of not the best quality), now I'm worried, maybe I didn't need to ??? Bubbles immediately, but the smell is suspicious, maybe because of the gas. water?
What to do? Throw it away? Or continue? Maybe someone was making a sourdough for gas. water? In the search I did not find ... They bake bread for gas. water, or are they different things?
If you continue, then what to feed - gas. water or switch to normal?

Lyulёk, thanks for the answer
I'll try to put the four-thread today ...
although, I just pulled the leaven out of the refrigerator - it looks kind of deadly - a couple of bubbles and did not rise at all after yesterday ... can we still feed it? on the other hand, mixing the dough is just feeding the sourdough ...

Lulek, would you recommend a recipe for sourdough bread "for dummies"? And then my eyes run up
There is a lot of sourdough, I want to put one wheat and one rye.

Lyulёk, thanks for the answer
I'll try to put the four-thread today ...
although, I just pulled the leaven out of the refrigerator - it looks kind of deadly - a couple of bubbles and did not rise at all after yesterday ... can we still feed it? on the other hand, mixing the dough is feeding the sourdough ...

Lulek, would you recommend a recipe for sourdough bread "for dummies"? And then my eyes run up
There is a lot of sourdough, I want to put one wheat and one rye.

I love Ain's bread very much. Try her rye sourdough bread first.
🔗
and very noteworthy bread with cereals and seeds. 🔗
True, I used to replace cereals with wheat groats soaked for 2 hours, now I make them on dispersed rye grain. (I'm going to post the recipe for the 3rd day on the forum, but my hands do not reach)
And one more nuance: make the dough dense enough, not liquid, even rye should keep its shape, though it will stick to your hands (this is normal).
I wrote to you in a personal message.

Maybe someone was making a sourdough for gas. water? In the search I did not find ... They bake bread for gas. water, or are they different things?
If you continue, then what to feed - gas. water or switch to normal?

I have already written about water more than once.

Mineral and carbonated water contains minerals, salts and other elements that can adversely affect the quality of the dough itself and, accordingly, the quality of the bread.

The best option for the test is plain clean water with increased hardness.
Do not drink water that contains magnesium salts.

Good luck!

Thanks for the answer! And what to do with this?

Thanks for the answer! And what to do with this?

If the leaven is good and healthy. feed on only plain water.

Ladies, thanks to everyone for the advice, special thanks to Admin for the master class on sourdough, without him, I think I would not have dared ...
Yesterday I baked a simple one with sourdough from Mariana-aha and wheat-rye from Admin ... but I got so tired with the oven that I didn't even have the strength to unsubscribe and thank everyone :))

The bread came out excellent, I baked it on a stone with moistening ... but at first I didn't like the sourdough taste at all, although I respect store yeast-free bread ... it looks like it turned out to be beer bread, and I was "not that" ... although my mother praised ... grit, that's how they used to bake in the village - there was no yeast :)))
on the second day, the beer taste disappeared and I have a hope that, perhaps, I will still make friends with MK leaven ... no, so I'll try some other thread :))

For my taste, sourdough bread made from rye flour tastes much better on the second day. Somehow I don't notice wheat. Everywhere they write that it is better to introduce rye flour into bread through sourdough and eat bread the next day. Don't lie, however!

Girls, tell me, please! My milk began to smell like kefir and stratified a little at one end. Is it already possible to feed with flour, or is it early?

The sutra understood what was needed. urgently))
So now I'm waiting for new results ..))

I baked wheat bread with kefir sourdough with the addition of rye flour without yeast. The bread has risen, baked, but ... the taste is sour and the smell is a little ... In general, the bread is edible, it's good that you don't have to throw it away. Please help me! What does acidity depend on? How can you remove it? I really want to bake sourdough bread without yeast.
And so in more detail what I did:
I had a 3-day starter culture (kefir + rye flour), I grew it according to the instructions. Before use, I fed and put aside 260 g.
added 150 ml liquid (50 ml milk, the rest water), added wheat flour 300 gr.
I did a batch for the program. 14 yeast dough without salt and oil.
I must say right away that I had to add more flour, unfortunately I did not measure how much I added. I tried the dough, it tasted sour.
Then after half an hour I added salt - 1.5 tsp, sugar - incomplete st. l. and olive oil - 2 tbsp. l. a little more flour and kneaded.
Then I put the dough in a bucket, flattened it, anointed it with olive oil on top and left it overnight (it turned out about 8 hours). Baked for an hour.
Another interesting thing is that the crust on top was not fried, both from the sides and from the bottom. I don't know if the oven bakes like this on this program or because it has oiled it ...
But that's not the point. The main thing is how to remove the sour taste?
Please don't pass by.

And I have some kind of nonsense ... ((((The sutra fed, but now it came and realized that nothing had happened in the day ... ((((Tell me, please, what's wrong? ..

[Kseny]

Kseny
the fact is that leaven is a capricious lady. Have you been on kefir? It cannot be non-acidic! And the bread on it, accordingly, will also be sour. For some, this taste does not suit.
I will quote from Lyudmila's blogs about leaven:
"In production, the acidity of the sourdough and its microbiological composition are regulated at the factory, and at home we work with spontaneous fermentation sourdoughs and each of us has a sourdough with its own set of "animals" (various combinations of a dozen types of wild yeast and 46 types of lactic acid bacteria) and its acidity. Someone's leavens are slightly acidic (that is, bacteria mainly produce lactic acid "), while others have ultra-acidic cultures (bacteria produce a lot of acetic acid).

Once at a time it is not necessary, even the same person can get different leavens, every time he takes them out, according to the same recipe."
About my experience - I now bake canteens on sourdough bread - rye, whole grains - they are all sour
And my home people require unleavened white wheat bread, I have to put the dough on pressed yeast.

Kseny, did you bake bread today? Try it tomorrow! I almost threw out my first day too - I didn't like the taste of sourdough at all, and on the second or third day, etc. days are great bread
I, too, not so long ago, knowledgeable people enlightened that the leavening zleb is tastier on the second day ... like borsch :)))

Kseny
Maybe try not to keep the dough all night?
And as soon as it increased by 2-2.5 times, so did the oven.

Or maybe this is a feature of the MKZ.
I have "eternal" rye and whole grain. They do not give sourness.
More precisely: it all depends on the fermentation time and ingredients.

thank you for responding! Today I killed all evening for a fuss with my "living creatures". I set up an experiment. Weighed, divided into 3 parts and laid out in 3 cans of 180 gr.
1st fed usually (kefir + rye flour)
The 2nd was fed by water + hw. flour
3rd wanted not to feed. Her husband came and threw half a teaspoon of soda into her, a violent reaction began, then it stopped. After that, I fed her in the same way as the 1st.
I tried all three after some time:
1st - sour,
2nd - very sour,
3rd - NOT sour. and it seems to taste nothing ...
I closed the lids, put them in the refrigerator, in the morning I will sniff, taste ...
Question: did anyone reduce the acidity of the leaven with soda? and what came of it then?

And I have some kind of nonsense ... ((((The sutra fed, but now it came and realized that nothing had happened in the day ... ((((Tell me, please, what's wrong? ..

That is, did not rise or rose and fell?

Doesn't move at all ... ((Gurgled a couple of times when the flour fell asleep and that's it .. ((((
Thank you for responding! ..))

You can take 50 grams of your sourdough and try to feed it again: 50g flour + 50g water (if the sourdough is wheat), if nothing rises this time, you will have to dispose of it and start over.

And if rye sourdough? .. can you still do that? ..

if rye, then we take not by weight, but by volume. That is, for 50 ml of sourdough we take 50 ml of water and 50 ml of rye flour.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

klazy, today the bread really seemed to me better, but I keep it in the refrigerator, I was afraid to keep it in the bread bin at room temperature, because after baking there was a sour smell all over the apartment.
Lyulek, I also want my bread to be not sour. Your message is very interesting.
How much leaven do you put in, how much does the dough rise over time?
When I kneaded my bread with sourdough and tried the dough right away, it was immediately sour even before proofing.
I downloaded the recipe, thanks, I will try. Only there it is not clear, the leaven is 255 grams, and the flour is in cups. Maybe you have already counted in grams? I always have problems with cups. And I need to bake a small bread, there are two eaters for now, and I think 255 grams of sourdough will work out per kilogram ...

That's why they are leavens, to be sour!
I have eternal leaven (it is already six months old, water + flour) - for white bread and kefir Admin (old kefir + rye flour) - for dark.
Now I don’t bake bread without sourdough, because with sourdough it turns out much tastier and the structure of the bread improves.
The eternal leaven smells very sour, but why should I smell it ?, it works well and okay.
Kefir smells nice, there really is something apple in the smell.
I add eternal leaven to my bread. - smaller, but in a dark kefir. The bread has never been sour yet, maybe you put a lot of leaven ??
All the same, bake with yeast, do not leave the dough for a long time.

Lyulek, I also want my bread to be not sour. Your message is very interesting.
How much leaven do you put in, how much does the dough rise over time?
When I kneaded my bread with sourdough and tried the dough right away, it was immediately sour even before proofing.
I downloaded the recipe, thanks, I'll try. Only there it is not clear, the leaven is 255 grams, and the flour is in cups. Maybe you have already counted in grams? I always have problems with cups. And I need to bake a small bread, there are two eaters for now, and I think 255 grams of sourdough will work out per kilogram ...

According to the recipe, it turns out even more than a kilogram, but look at how Svetlana Odessa writes about him
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...69.0
Take 2 times the least. And you will feel the flour: the bun should not be very dense, but also not spread.
Here I showed it, only the recipe with my changes
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=9040.0

I ate the last piece of the sourdough bread I made on Sunday today. kept in a bread box, never spoiled.