Starter cultures - in questions and answers

the three-day leaven is still very weak, it cannot raise the dough on its own. She becomes strong in two weeks, or even a month. Therefore, at first, yeast must be added to the dough. I also don't like to throw anything away. I put all the ripe leaven into the dough. I sprinkle what remains on the walls with water and add flour as if on thick pancakes. My leaven lives on the table or on the windowsill

I, too, have been growing sourdough for two weeks. I started with rye flour and water, Eternal, then flour, as it did not become rye, continued on wheat. Then, as an experiment, she fed whole grain - she always played conscientiously, and it smells nice of apples. And I never threw out any part - I always put it in the dough. Yes, of course I had to lay down the yeast, but I immediately gave them less than according to the recipe, and it worked out great. But the taste of sourdough bread, even with the addition of ordinary dry yeast, is still different, and it retains its softness for a long time. But my husband says that by mixing the leaven and yeast in a bucket, I create stress for them and they are fighting for life with each other. That is, they seek to destroy. It's true??
How hostile are these creatures to each other ???

Girls, but I just can't understand: I made a sourdough, I have a recipe for bread with yeast, I want to put sourdough instead of yeast. And in what proportion to take something? Or how does this happen? Explain to dunno

[French sourdough bread in a bread maker]

Let me explain: first, I would recommend choosing the already proven recipe for baking sourdough bread. There are many of them here, but you need to decide. Full list of breads here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=30.0
If you have already decided what kind of bread (wheat, rye-wheat, wheat-rye, rye ...) you want to get, go through the names of the same name. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=55.0 There are detailed master classes on the kneading and baking process.
Of the proven ones I can offer French sourdough bread in a bread maker , Sourdough rye bread in a bread maker , Airy sourdough bread
Once you master the process, then it will be easier for you to determine the ratio of ingredients for your bread.

kava, thanks !! I'm going to hone my skills

I, too, have been growing sourdough for two weeks. I started with rye flour and water, Eternal, then flour, as it did not become rye, continued on wheat. Then, as an experiment, she fed whole grain - she always played conscientiously, and it smells nice of apples. And I never threw out any part - I always put it in the dough. Yes, of course I had to lay down the yeast, but I immediately gave them less than according to the recipe, and it worked out great. But the taste of sourdough bread, even with the addition of ordinary dry yeast, is still different, and it retains its softness for a long time. But my husband says that by mixing the leaven and yeast in a bucket, I create stress for them and they are fighting for life with each other. That is, they seek to destroy. It's true??
How hostile are these creatures to each other ???

Yeast with sourdough is not competitors but close relatives, and in bread they only strengthen each other.

Baker's yeast is a pure strain grown on special nutrient media. And in the starter cultures are the same yeast, only wild and lactic acid bacteria. And why would they compete when the food is full.

Then tell me, pliz, inexperienced in leavens.
I put half of the indicated amount in the recipe (any) yeast and add 3 tbsp. spoons. Sometimes there is not enough proofing in auto mode. Then sometimes I turn it off in order to rise even higher and then bake on baked goods. Question - do I need to put more leaven ??
How to do it right? To keep the crust high and not fall? Doesn't fall yet, but I want to have enough in auto mode!

For the HP mode, the ratio of 100 g of starter + 5 g of compressed yeast works well

You can remove the stirrer so as not to crumple and you get one big proofer.

I will do so))))))
And I also have a question. I don't put my starter in the refrigerator - I feel sorry for it - it's cold there! It is on my table near the sink. The apartment is warm-25-26 gr. I feed ALWAYS at 8 pm. The next day I put the bread in the morning, after 12 hours. after feeding. But everyone says that they keep it in the refrigerator, but why ??? I, too, thought it might sour on the table. But she's normal, she smells like apples

I keep the sourdough in small amounts and in 12 hours it obviously oozes. I don't keep it in the refrigerator, but I feed it 2 times a day - in the morning and in the evening.

I don't put my starter in the refrigerator.
But she's normal, she smells like apples

Fine!
Those who have no other choice are put in the cold. Well, there is no way to feed on time, it happens.
If you have the opportunity to keep it at room temperature, then it will only be healthier!

Girls, 400 gr. flour (200 rye plus 200 wheat) plus another 50 gr. decoys. you can lay down a thick sourdough (dough density) 200 ml. cups plus 1 hour l. yeast? Or is it possible to further increase the amount of starter culture and reduce the yeast? And then I now had to turn on baking earlier on whole grain-15 minutes. there was still, and the bread had already risen 2.5 times. I was afraid that the roof would want to sit down from stopping.

can you increase the amount of starter culture and reduce yeast?

It is possible to reduce the amount of yeast without increasing the amount of leaven.

Now, after the rye, I will put immediately wheat, so I will! Thank you!

Hello!

I have a question about whole grain sourdough. In the evening I prepared a leaven: 4 tbsp. l. whole grain rye flour and 3 tbsp. l. I stirred the water to the consistency of thick sour cream and put it overnight near the radiator under the table (since this is the only warm place in the apartment). In the morning the leaven did not show any special signs of life, but in the evening it bubbled up and doubled as it should. Then she fed her (2 tablespoons of flour, 2 tablespoons of water). The next evening, the leaven was stratified (foam-liquid-flour)! Tell me what was done wrong and the reason for the separation.
PS: The same method was used to successfully make sourdough on peeled rye flour - the bread was what you need!

---
Maria.

[Jinsej]

Jinsej, delamination usually occurs when excess fluid is present. Perhaps the flour is damp. Try adding 5-10% flour, but no more than 10%. Just stir and add (unless, of course, the sourdough has not yet been drained into the toilet).
As long as the liquid is at the top, the leaven is alive.

[Jinsej]

Hello!
Then she fed her (2 tablespoons of flour, 2 tablespoons of water).

Jinsej, after feeding 2 tbsp. l. flour and 2. tbsp. l of water your leaven turned out to be very liquid. Moreover, you put it under the battery. So she quickly ate delicious whole grain flour.
Next time feed thicker and leave on the table, not under the battery.

Thanks Zhivchik and kava!

There is a question for kava: "As long as the liquid is on top" - is it under the foam or above? I got a thick flour at the bottom, a thin layer of liquid in the middle and a high sourdough foam on top. I haven't thrown it away yet and added flour as you advised.

[Jinsej]

Jinsej, yet the flour itself may not be very good and "float". Usually stratification occurs in 2 layers on top of the liquid - at the bottom it is thick. So how a patient sourdough now?

Does it make sense to make rye sourdough from flour of lower grades?

Does it make sense to make rye sourdough from flour of lower grades?

Of course it makes sense! On rye wallpaper flour you will get high acidity and very high sourdough activity.

[Jinsej]

Jinsej, yet the flour itself may not be very good and "float". Usually stratification occurs in 2 layers on top of the liquid - at the bottom it is thick. So how a patient sourdough now?

Unfortunately, the patient did not live to see the evening. Now it has stratified into 2 layers: flour at the bottom, liquid at the top (the foam has sunk). Apparently I added flour late.

[Jinsej]

Jinsej, do not be discouraged, try to start the growing process again and track all the processes that are taking place step by step, then it will be easier to determine at what stage the failure (and perhaps it will not be).

Please help me figure it out! I grew the leaven. It seems that at the beginning she was raisin, strong, but then she stopped growing, and let the bubbles flow in and the heat did not help her. She periodically began to feed her with coarse flour or wheat flour, but with a pinch of bran. She liked it so much that now it increases 2.5 times in 2 hours .. Somewhere here I read that it is better to feed it when it increases .. But damn it, I can’t feed her every 2 hours? I put it on the windowsill, it’s the coolest there - but it still grows fast ..
I am doing this now. Cooked on it. I fed it to the jar with the leftovers and left it. I feed the next day. By this time, it is already completely fallen and a subtle sour smell appears. What do you advise?)

[Viki, kava]

Viki, kava , tell me, I have long wanted to ask how to properly process any recipe you like with yeast for a starter? How to know for how much flour how much sourdough is needed?

[Viki, kava]

Viki, kava , tell me, I have long wanted to ask how to properly process any recipe you like with yeast for a starter? How to know for how much flour how much sourdough is needed?

True, I am not Vicki and Kava, but I will answer. The recipe uses so much starter that it contains 20% to 50% of the recipe's FLOUR. This is usually 20%.

In sourdough bread, you can add from 50 to 400 g of sourdough (depending on taste preferences and bread baking technology). If you have 100% sourdough (in which there is an equal amount of water and flour), then in the recipe you like, replace part of the water and flour with sourdough. For example: the recipe contains 450 g of flour and 300 g of liquid - you can add 200 g of sourdough to the recipe, reducing the amount of flour to 350 g (per 100 g) and the amount of liquid to 200 g (per 100 g).

[Scarecrow, kava]

Scarecrow, kava, Thank you for efficiency!

For example: the recipe contains 450 g of flour and 300 g of liquid - you can add 200 g of sourdough to the recipe, reducing the amount of flour to 350 g (per 100 g) and the amount of liquid to 200 g (per 100 g).

Here it is clear to me, but how do I know that such a quantity of leaven will be enough for me? And how does a strong increase in the quantity of leaven affect the taste?

The more sourdough - the more pronounced sourness and the faster ripening of the bread preparation (correspondingly, less time of proofing). I usually add no more than 200 g of sourdough to wheat bread, and 300-350 g to wheat-rye or rye-wheat bread

I add 400 grams of sourdough, as it is fresh-daily, grown from the remaining 50 grams. from previous baking, it does not give a strongly acidic taste, but it raises the bread so that I start baking earlier. The maximum time after feeding is 3 hours into the dough.

[SoNya 68]

SoNya 68 , 3 hours after feeding, is it already growing twice?

Let me explain now. So I put the sourdough in the bread, there are 50 grams left. I immediately feed her 100 * 100 (water plus flour). On the NEXT day, before baking (I always bake at the same time, usually, which means the period between feedings is about 20 hours) for three hours I feed again. 100 * 100 and by the time of laying it is already yes, it doubles. And if I bake a little later, then at 3. Is that bad ??? What am I doing wrong? If you are of the opinion that she is young, then turn it-bread is so good, even rye. HP mode is enough for me. But I said, I put a drop of yeast, half a teaspoon measuring 1500 grams. bread. Now I have a bigger stove, 2 mixers. It turns out not a bun, but a sausage. But I follow the rules of the kolobok strictly. I never put sugar in the dough. Salt is always a full tablespoon. The pangs on the eye already. I only look at the kolobok. Additives are different - even finely chopped salted lard - everything is fine. The leaven does not let the bread under the lid.
Yes, one more thing.First, the butter, then literally dump the leaven, then the liquid and directly onto the liquid-yeast. And then flour and some additives, dry herbs or dried spices. She seems to have described everything. What actions confuse you?

[SoNya 68]

SoNya 68 , now I understand why it grows in three hours. It turns out that you feed once at idle, but I thought that right after feeding, she had already grown up in three hours.
Incidentally, I never feed when I'm idle. Immediately after use, I fed it and everything until the next time - every other day.

[RybkA]

RybkA Then it turns out, is it already fallen for the next baking? And you put it in the dough like that?
And I feed in order to have enough of it. I just miss her. And if I understood correctly, then they advised, after taking the leaven out of the refrigerator, to warm it up, FEED it and when it doubles, put it in the dough.

after taking out the leaven from the refrigerator, warm it up, FEED and when it doubles, put it in the dough.

Quite right!

[SoNya 68]

Well, that's what I do, just don't get it out of the fridge. And how else, apart from two feedings, can you reach the required amount by the number? It is impossible to pour in 200 ml in 30-50 grams of the remaining after use. water and put 200 gr. flour. Baby will burst out! I love her, so I feed her the right portions. And further. Does it matter HOW I feed her if the result does not cause pain?

SoNya 68You are doing great. And your bread must be very good. It is noteworthy that you have compiled for yourself a convenient schedule of sourdough feeding and bread baking. Your way is a good example for those who have not yet adapted to the sourdough bread regime. You are just smart!

girls, are not you arguing about different things?
Fish on ripe sourdough makes dough, and Sonya uses non-acidified leaven as a dough
so and different approach, or am I wrong?

It is impossible to pour in 200 ml in 30-50 grams of the remaining after use. water and put 200 gr. flour. Baby will burst out!

It will not overstrain, it will just eat for a long time and grow more slowly. This is called high proportion feeding. Only I do not recommend using this method all the time, the leaven will be depleted and weakened quickly.

I put the sourdough in the bread, there are 50 grams left. I immediately feed her 100 * 100 (water plus flour). On the NEXT day, before baking, I feed 100 * 100

Girls, there is such a rule, the amount of added dough (flour + water) should not be less than the amount of sourdough. It turns out that 250 grams of sourdough is fed 200 grams. test, then feed 125 + 125, so that there is no imbalance.

Oh, thanks for the smart girl, I'm just happy! Yes, I was so strict with her, like a little child. I have three artificial children. Well, I'm not a dairy mom ...
And here again such a Tamagotchi! But I'm glad that it worked out, I'm babysitting her, and the work is shift. Well, so far I have time. She also conducted an experiment. I had to put bread in 1 hour after feeding - believe me, I thought nothing would come of it. And it turned out as usual. I just thought, will he still work during the proofing? And at the time of baking and even at the beginning of baking. And it worked! And today I put a half-teaspoon of measured yeast on 1800 gr. of bread. Above the edge of the bucket came up and the roof pah-pah-no longer falls. And sourdough dough is much more elastic immediately upon kneading. That is how it should be??

[RybkA]

RybkA Then it turns out, is it already fallen for the next baking? And you put it in the dough like that?
And I feed in order to have enough of it. I just miss her. And if I understood correctly, then they advised, after taking the leaven out of the refrigerator, to warm it up, FEED it and when it doubles, put it in the dough.

There is no sourdough not fallen, but just grown to its full height! My wheat bread goes 200g, which is exactly what it turns out: washing + 110 water + 110 flour = for the second essence it grows almost three times and then it is only going to fall off. She does not live in my refrigerator, she stands on the window in a cool room.A couple of times I even laid down the fallen one, everything worked out fine, the bread was not sour.
You just bake a lot of bread at once, and I need one loaf for two days.

Fish on ripe sourdough makes dough

In principle, yes, now I will try the recipe without dough, but it will be rye bread.

Yes many. My son loves homemade bread very much. Why don't you put sourdough in the rye?
Believe me, I bake with sourdough in the usual mode, it also rises under the roof. There is enough time. But he loves to eat whole grains more than rye. This is her favorite! What do you mean, start a dough? If I just dump everything in HP, am I making dough too ??

[Sonya]

Sonya, about "make a dough with sourdough" a lot in the Izyuminka topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ic=9229.new;topicseen#new

and I, too, often do not make a dough, but use a sourdough instead of a dough.
And in this regard, I have a question

Girls, tell me how to recalculate sourdough bread recipes for a smaller / larger size?
by flour ratio or by sourdough ratio?
simple yeast recipes do not cause any difficulties for me, because thanks to wonderful topics / explanations / moderators and of course Admin, this coefficient is almost intuitively calculated.
But what about sourdough bread? Somewhere an answer slipped through (like Suslya wrote) - according to the ratio of the weight of the leaven in the recipe.
Who recounts recipes - please tell me

It is also recalculated by the coefficient. If you count the amount of flour, the amount of yeast will change accordingly. I am counting from the leaven, throwing it into the bucket, weighing it, and already dancing from this.

[SoNya 68]

Yes many. My son loves homemade bread very much. Why don't you put sourdough in the rye?
Believe me, I bake with sourdough in the usual mode, it also rises under the roof. There is enough time. But he loves to eat whole grains more than rye. This is her favorite! What do you mean, start a dough? If I just dump everything in HP, am I making dough too ??

SoNya 68are you asking me this? Why not a box - a box. Just now I will try the recipe and there the dough immediately starts up on ready-made sourdough, without dough.

That is, recalculation by the amount of leaven, right?
say according to the recipe for sourdough 200 g + 400 g flour
and I need 100g + 200g flour - this is a recipe for half a portion
and in the same way 150g of sourdough in relation to 200g k = 0.75, right?

Everything is correct

[Suslya]

Thank you, Suslya
otherwise, as usual - in long roundabout ways - first flatten all the flour according to the recipe, then count to a smaller amount, and only then count the leaven. By the amount of leaven it is easier

I'm probably a little messy, but I do everything by eye. Only proceeding from the fact that the starter culture is always 400 gr. for some reason the weight of the bread at the exit is always the same. Yes, I'm still measuring out the liquid - 350 ml.

Girls, help !!! Yesterday my bread came out of my bucket, rested against the window, filling the entire space above the bucket. Maybe I can not add yeast with such a leaven?
Or is it just by typing you can find out? It's a pity if the products go bad ...