Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Evgeniya, it's hard for me to answer questions about the leaven, which I don't know. Don't throw it away. Feed in equal portions every 12 hours until actively growing.

now I have only 125g each (starter-water-flour). can you knead all this for 1 loaf of bread?

It is possible for one loaf, only you need to leave 30 grams for canning. If you store in the refrigerator, then you need to feed 30 + 30, leave on the table for 1 hour and put in the refrigerator. This will be your starter.

for example, you need 500g .. so from 500 we subtract the spent 125g, right? and also take away water, right?

Subtract both flour and water. For example, if you use 350g. sourdough, then subtract 175g from the flour. and from water 175g.

Hello!
I made the sourdough, it rises well, because I bake bread often (1-3 times a week), then I use part, I feed the rest 50/50 and put it in the closet, I feed it again the next day, etc.
But on the container, on the lid, on the walls, no, no, yes, white spots will appear. This is normal or some pathogenic flora is already forming. And the smell, and consistency, and blistering, everything is as before and behaves well in baking.
What it is.
Thank you in advance.
Yours faithfully!

Master-leavers, and who brought out the Concentrated Sour Sourdough (KMKZ) of spontaneous fermentation (rye)? And then my cycle of removing KMKZ something was delayed, like for 2-3 days the yeast flora should be suppressed (suppression begins) by the acidic medium produced by the ICD, and after 6 days it (sourdough) in an hour after feeding already from the can runs, which indicates a riot of wild yeast which should no longer be. On the 5th day I changed the flour, the situation has not changed - it rises with terrible force. The temperature regime did not change - the thermostat clearly holds 39.5-40.5 g. in a jar of sourdough. ... ... Maybe tell me something. ... ...
The withdrawal technique is taken from here -
🔗

Hello! I am new to baking sourdough bread. Has grown rye sourdough and also raisins with rye flour.
Everything worked out well. So far, I baked bread only on raisins. But she baked it in a regular oven.
I decided to try a date sourdough with wheat flour.
First, she cleaned 5 dates from the stone, put them in a glass jar of olives and poured them with warm water.
For 3 days she stood in the closet and sour very well. Having strained, I added ordinary premium flour.
On the second day of kneading, good bubbles and a pleasant scent of dates and sourdough appeared.
I fed it, and today, on the 3rd day after kneading, I fed it again in the morning. The sourdough rises well, fed it again after 7 hours.
I am thinking tomorrow to try to bake wheat bread with date sourdough. Today the mini oven should be brought, Redber 4290.
There is a Panasonic 265 bread maker, but I am afraid that bread with natural sourdough will climb through the bucket in it.
Has anyone tried to bake bread with wheat-date sourdough?

Has anyone tried to bake bread with wheat-date sourdough?

Everything will work out. It differs from raisins only in its aroma and that is the first week. And you have experience with raisins. It is only important for her not to allow peroxide. It is a little more capricious on wheat flour than on rye.
Good luck to you!

Master-leavers, and who brought out the Concentrated Sour Ferment (KMKZ) of spontaneous fermentation (rye)? And then my cycle of removing KMKZ something was delayed. ... ... Maybe tell me something. ... ...

I cannot call myself a master leavener, but I brought out this leaven. The first time I had it exactly on schedule and it turned out on the 5th day with a wonderful fruity aroma.The flour was whole-ground rye Garnets. After that, I took it out several more times, but everything was not so smooth, it took more time and it was no longer so fragrant. In general, each time it turns out differently.
In your case, I think you should try changing the flour and increasing the temperature to 43-44 degrees.

Well, that's all. ... ... grown in a jar for a week and a half, hell knows what. ... ...
After experimenting with changing flour and temperature conditions,
Test baking,
And consultation with a former colleague (she was once engaged in industrial winemaking and brewing for a long time),
The leaven, which, apparently from birth, was something else, and not KMKZ was sentenced to liquidation. ... ...
In the evening, attempt number two starts. ... ...

And the bread turned out to be beautiful, but the taste is so-so, there was not enough sourness. ... ...

Continuation of the story (July 1, 2013)
Started starter culture on bottled artesian water,
the remnants of rye flour from different manufacturers (remained in bags of 100-150 grams) mixed in approximately equal amounts,
I rebuilt the thermostat for a more accurate temperature control (although this was unnecessary).
After a day, I can say that the picture is strikingly different from the first attempt. ... ... hopefully the second attempt will be successful. ... ...

Continuation of the story (the second day ended)
Now everything seems to be going according to schedule, I do not observe violent fermentation (for the second day, the leaven rose by no more than 50%, then fell off), the SMRAD that was the first day changed to a salty-cucumber-bread-leavened smell, the color became so reddish. ... ...

Continuation of the story (the fourth day ended)
The third and fourth days are again, in principle, according to the schedule, although fermentation (gas formation) is still observed, albeit insignificant, the leaven rises by only 10-20% (or maybe this is not yeast, but gas-forming ICB?). The sourdough smell of pure rye bread and a very sour taste. ... ...
Well, it seems that my KMKZ has turned out at the weekend there will be a test baking result, I hope to be satisfied

I have used my spontaneous fermentation leaven very successfully !!! She baked bread without yeast-fragrant (taste of fresh apples), high, porous crumb. I revived it with premium flour. But, here's the trouble, once there was no such flour at hand and I fed the leaven with flour of the 1st grade ... After that, the leaven is very poorly suited. does not rise at all with a cap, as before, only a few emerging bubbles, the smell of an ordinary leavening .. what is the reason? can it be reanimated? (I continue to feed, as usual, with flour sun)

Good evening.
Something strange is happening with the leaven. Please advise what it is and what to do.

This is my first time using the Eternal Leaven recipe.
I put it in 2 jars for a test. One on rye flour, the other on whole wheat wheat.
The first days everything went fine, on the third the rye rose so much that I even put it in another jar. Wheat too, but less. True, both, judging by the footprints on the bank, managed to rise strongly and drop a little during the day.
I was already thinking about trying to bake bread, but on the fourth day they hardly got up both. At the same time, liquid separated from the top of the wheat sourdough. What could it be? What to do?

What could it be? What to do?

The sourdough tries to balance the bacteria.
Feed the same for two more days. And add wheat flour when feeding so that for every 100 grams of water there is 110 flour.

Help, pliz! I have a bread maker for several days and, according to the recommendations of experienced bakers, while I bake white bread. But I would also like to eat rye. There is a lot of information on the forum, and I confused the "meeting of millionaires with a meeting of meliorators", apparently. I bought a leaven for kvass (glass jar 0.5 l, not dry, but like a thick wort). And now I see that sourdough for bread is completely different. Tell me, can you use this leaven for baking bread? I am sorry if this topic already exists. Share links if available.

Tell me, can you use this leaven for baking bread?

Of course it is possible (of course, together with yeast), it will somewhat improve the taste of the bread, only this must (you bought the must) will not give that sourness and aroma of rye (wheat-rye) bread. You can't do without leaven here.

The starter culture tries to balance the bacteria.
Feed the same for two more days. And add wheat flour when feeding so that for every 100 grams of water there is 110 flour.

Thank you very much for your reply.
True, I still can't do anything. Wheat sourdough hardly rises at all. And there is already a kilogram of flour in it. Rye seems to grow, but the bread still does not rise, and it remains a piece of dough that cannot even be baked

Hello!
In the room +25 during the day, less at night. I feed at 15.00
1 day - 100 gr. rye flour mixed with 150 ml of water. Stirred and left for a day at room temperature. The leaven was bubbling in the evening
Day 2 - added 50g of flour and 50ml of water. Bubbles. A small layer of water has appeared.
Day 3 - added 50g of flour and 50ml of water. Bubbles practically ceased, there is even a larger interlayer.
Question: what to do with my leaven? What am I doing wrong?

Natalia, your starter culture is short of food. Take 50 gr. sourdough and feed it 50 gr. water and 50 gr. flour. ... ...

[I'm Natalia]

I'm Natalia Natalya, when preparing the sourdough, you have to accept the fact that at the first stages you have to throw out a certain amount. There are different schemes and we have detailed descriptions of different leavens on the forum.
But something like this: if on the first day you took 100 g of flour and 100 g of water, then on the second day, take a quarter of the total amount of the first year, i.e. 50 g of the previous mixture + 50 g of flour + 50 g of water, on the third day, a third of the total amount of the previous mixtures + the same amount of water and flour. On the third, fourth, fifth and sixth days, two podkomki should be carried out with an interval of 12 hours. And only on the seventh day, the leaven can be used in bread, and even then it is desirable to feed or bake more often for several days.
And also rye sourdough, like rye bread, requires a higher temperature, somewhere not less than 28 degrees. You can hang it from a towel dryer or use a heating pad, put it in the microwave, there are different ways.
I wish you success, do not despair, everything will work out if you have patience.

Lixi Maybe you need to change your flour? Sometimes it happens that wheat flour with additives and sourdough does not work.

1 day - 100 gr. rye flour mixed with 150 ml of water.

What am I doing wrong?

1 day = 100 g of rye flour + 100 g of water - the key to a successful starter culture. If there is more water, then oxygen starvation is provided for it. It is difficult to breathe underwater, and it will have a layer of water on top.

Hello!
In the room +25 during the day, less at night. I feed at 15.00
1 day - 100 gr. rye flour mixed with 150 ml of water. Stirred and left for a day at room temperature. The leaven was bubbling in the evening
Day 2 - added 50g of flour and 50ml of water. Bubbles. A small layer of water has appeared.
Day 3 - added 50g of flour and 50ml of water. Bubbles practically ceased, there is even a larger interlayer.
Question: what to do with my leaven? What am I doing wrong?

I set aside 50g of this sourdough and added 50ml of water + 50g of flour No. 2
in the original jar + 50g flour. # 1

in # 1 it got a little bubble
No. 2 10 large bubbles

the volume has not increased anywhere ... we are waiting ...

[I'm Natalia]

I'm Natalia Natalya, when preparing the sourdough, you have to accept the fact that at the first stages you have to throw out a certain amount. There are different schemes and we have detailed descriptions of different leavens on the forum.
But something like this: if on the first day you took 100 g of flour and 100 g of water, then on the second day, take a quarter of the total amount of the first year, i.e. 50 g of the previous mixture + 50 g of flour + 50 g of water, on the third day, a third of the total amount of the previous mixtures + the same amount of water and flour. On the third, fourth, fifth and sixth days, two podkomki should be carried out with an interval of 12 hours.And only on the seventh day, the leaven can be used in bread, and even then it is still desirable to feed or bake more often for several days.
And also rye sourdough, like rye bread, requires a higher temperature, somewhere not less than 28 degrees. You can hang it from a towel dryer or use a heating pad, put it in the microwave, there are different ways.
I wish you success, do not despair, everything will work out if you have patience.

Lixi Maybe you need to change your flour? Sometimes it happens that wheat flour with additives and sourdough does not work.

is plastic sourdough utensil suitable? or is it better glass? if you put a jar of leaven on a pipe with hot water, will it be hot, or normal?

is plastic sourdough utensil suitable? or is it better glass? if you put a jar of leaven on a pipe with hot water, will it be hot, or normal?

I keep the starter culture in 1/2 liter glass jars, covered with a piece of cloth and a lid with holes. Probably it is possible in plastic, but the plastic must be food grade. It is better not to put it on the pipe, it will be hot from below. Place something under the jar, or even better, hang it over a pipe or nearby. When the heating works, I hang it on a pipe going to the radiator.

Can you stir the leaven? how often?

Can you stir the leaven? how often?

What for? Stir well when feeding, cover, and forget for 12 hours.

My leaven increased by 1.5 times yesterday
To continue feeding her (7th day to her)?

My leaven increased by 1.5 times yesterday
To continue feeding her (7th day to her)?

In principle, you already have it ready. In order to become more active, you can feed a couple more days. And you can already bake bread, take the amount of sourdough required according to the recipe in the dough and leave 50g as a starter. Feed your starter again and refrigerate for further use. Bake the first bread by adding a drop of yeast, since the leaven will still be young.

In principle, you already have it ready. In order to become more active, you can feed a couple more days. And you can already bake bread, take the amount of sourdough required according to the recipe in the dough and leave 50g as a starter. Feed your starter again and refrigerate for further use. Bake the first bread by adding a drop of yeast, since the leaven will still be young.

thanks for the answer. To clarify, the sourdough rises 1.5 times within about 4-5 hours, and then falls off.
And do not share the bread recipes ...

thanks for the answer. To clarify, the sourdough rises 1.5 times within about 4-5 hours, and then falls off.
And do not share the bread recipes ...

Each time before baking bread, you will need to activate the starter culture (starter) a day before, feed it and use it in bread at its peak. The amount of starter is usually indicated in the recipe.
We have a lot of bread recipes on the forum, look at the section: "leavened bread" I don't know your tastes: with additives or not, shaped or hearth. If from mine, then the simplest https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=117444.0, the rest of the bread is in my profile.
Success to you!

I am reporting. Yesterday I baked the first bread. : victory: I took a leaven of 110g + 200 ml of water + 200g of rye flour, kneaded for dumplings, then 2.5 hours in the heat. Got up a little. Added 200 ml of water + 150 g of rye flour + 200 g of 1 grade flour + 1 tbsp sugar. l. + salt 1.5 tbsp. l and on French bread (2 hours leveling the temperature, 20 minutes of kneading, 3 hours of raising, 55 minutes of baking). When the oven was opened, there was one deep crack across the bread and on top of the bread there were a few more rather deep ones. The taste is sour and slightly moist. Not bad for the first time though. On the cut like a store, there are even more bubbles. Crunchy crust
Only this sourness is a little annoying. How to get rid of it?
The rest of the sourdough was fed with 50g of flour + 50g of water, it rose in 4 hours at 2p and put it in the refrigerator.Next time how to do it right? Feed the starter as soon as I take it out of the refrigerator, or let it warm up. Keep her fed warm for a day, and then take from her for bread?

Congratulations on your first bread! Something you get some big numbers and I do not quite understand how you baked bread. How much leaven did you put in the dough as a result? If you did according to my recipe, then read carefully:
"I mixed 40 g of sourdough with 100 g of water, added 140 g of rye flour and left in a warm place for 8 hours. From the raised sourdough I took 230 g for bread." and immediately kneaded the dough into bread. The remaining sourdough was sent to the refrigerator for the next time, taking into account the losses, it will be approximately 30 g.
See also these recipes: 🔗 and here's another
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=117106.0... You may find it easier to figure out how to bake sourdough bread in a bread maker.
In rye-wheat bread, the sourness will be slight, but if you keep a small amount of sourdough and refresh it a couple of times before baking, then the bread will not be sour.
On bread we take the sourdough at its peak, when it rose, it increased at least twice. Usually, it takes at least 6 hours for the rye sourdough.
Read carefully the recipes, comments to them (you can learn a lot from them too) and gradually figure it out.
I wish you success and good bread!

I took 110g from a jar of sourdough, fed the rest and kept warm. And in these 110 g I added 200 ml of water + 200 g of rye flour, kneading for dumplings, then all this (110 g + 200 ml + 200 g) 2.5 hours in the heat. Got up a little. I added 200 ml of water + 150 g of rye flour + 200 g of 1 grade flour + 1 tbsp sugar. l. + salt 1.5 tbsp. l and on French bread (2 hours leveling the temperature, 20 minutes of kneading, 3 hours of raising, 55 minutes of baking).
Is that so wrong?

Next time how to do it right? Feed the starter as soon as I take it out of the refrigerator, or let it warm up. Keep her feed warm for a day, and then take from her for bread?

As it is correct - there is no definite answer. We all adapt as conveniently. The important thing is that you DO NOT take the leaven out of the refrigerator. What was in the fridge was a starter for making sourdough. For example, I do not hold more than 50 grams. in a refrigerator. I take out and feed 100 grams of flour and water, after a while I get 250 grams. sourdough. For baking, this is usually not enough for me and I feed again. When the sourdough has risen and is ready for baking, I put some in a jar and in the refrigerator, and I use the rest for baking bread.

[Viki]

... I get 250 gr. sourdough. For baking, this is usually not enough for me

Viki, and how much leaven do you usually use for 1 loaf? Completely without yeast (on one sourdough)? .. I adapted to the oven for 100g of sourdough + 1g of Saf-moment yeast (on one sourdough (200-250g) it raised well, but it was sour, but just right) - I have a spontaneous sourdough fermentation

[Viki]

Viki, and how much leaven do you usually use for 1 loaf? Without yeast at all (on one starter culture)? ..

No yeast at all. I take sourdoughs for wheat bread 400 - 500 gr. Then my bread is enough for 50 - 60 minutes for fermentation and two hours for proofing.
On a rye gram 300. But, since I keep the sourdough more often wheat, I begin to feed one tbsp per day. l. rye flour. Two - three feedings and rye sourdough is ready.

[Viki]

But, since I keep the sourdough more often than wheat, I begin to feed one tbsp per day. l. rye flour. Two - three feedings and rye sourdough is ready.

Viki , thanks, I'll try and I overfeed my sourdough from wheat to rye,
otherwise I bake the "wrong" rye bread with wheat leaven -

but it is still VERY DELICIOUS!

Grazed rye sourdough. The bread is delicious, but the top of the bread is in deep cracks. Tell me why?
I'm trying to feed the rye sourdough into wheat. I took 1h. l. rye starter, and for 5 days I feed 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of water. It bubbles a little, does not grow in volume at all. What to do with it?

I'm trying to feed the rye sourdough into wheat. I took 1h. l.rye starter, and for 5 days I feed 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of water. Bubbles a little, does not grow in volume at all. What to do with it?

You take 1 tsp each time. and feed 50 grams of flour-water each or add 50 grams of flour and water to what you have?

1st day 1h l. rye starter + 50gr flour + 50g water
to the received again flour and water, etc.
the starter was only put on the first day

thank you in advance!!!

the starter was only put on the first day

Your girl is starving
There should be more feed than the starter itself.
If they gave her 50 grams each, then she is already 100 grams and she needs at least 100 grams. feed, and again more for the second feeding.
When I do "idle" feedings, I throw away some so as not to waste a lot of flour.
When I overfeed, I took 50 grams of sourdough and 50 grams each. water and flour. Then from what happened, she left 50 grams and again fed 50 grams of water and flour. I also fed it in large proportions when a sack of flour was bought, but it somehow quickly ended at the same time.

Thank you!!! How long do they feed her? What temperature does such a leaven like?

And another question
Why does the top of the bread crack
baked according to the recipe
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...&Itemid=26&topic=173231.0

How long do they feed her? What temperature does such a leaven like?

Overfeeding wheat for rye - at a time, and rye for wheat - from three to 5 feedings.
If you overfeed the finished starter culture, then the temperature is not important for it, but only affects the time of its fermentation, that is, the interval between feedings can be regulated both by proportions and by temperature. At room temperature, we have a certain time interval between feedings. At higher temperatures we feed more often, lower - less often. BUT! Not lower than 12 * C and not higher than 30 * C.

Why does the top of the bread crack

He didn't have enough proofing time.
If the bread is molded and you can't add time, you can add a little liquid. But it is better to give the proofing longer.

Is the proving time just before baking? is it at room temperature or warmer?
Forgive me, I have too many questions ...

Is the proving time just before baking? is it at room temperature or warmer?

Proofing is the time before baking. The time also depends on the temperature. One and the same workpiece can be defrosted at room temperature, for me, for example, 25 * C, for example, 2 hours, but you can, like girls, defer in the oven with the light on - it will be faster. I don't have such a function, and when I need it faster, I put the workpiece in the microwave chamber (off!) And put a cup of boiling water next to it. After half an hour, I change the cup to "again with boiling water." Or you can let it stand in the cold, but then for the whole night, and baking in the morning.

PS It is better to ask a lot of questions and get good bread than to be ashamed to ask and bake something "wrong."

well then I'll be impudent (with my questions)
in recipes it is sometimes indicated bread wheat flour - what kind of flour is it?

in recipes it is sometimes indicated bread wheat flour - what kind of flour is it?

There are options ...
First, it is customary to indicate "bakery". I take the flour of the manufacturer who indicates on the package "Baking flour" and take both the highest and first grade. Bakery - indicates a high protein content ... that with our manufacturers, alas, not a fact.
If "bakery" is not indicated, then it is considered to be "general purpose" flour.
And when you see "bread flour" in a recipe, it is most likely someone who lives in Germany who wrote this recipe. If I'm not mistaken, then their flour is marked by type and there is a type of bread (I think 550). In such a recipe, you can use our bakery of the highest and first grade and choose what you like best.

Overfeeding wheat for rye - at a time, and rye for wheat - from three to 5 feedings.
If you overfeed the finished starter culture, then the temperature is not important for it, but only affects the time of its fermentation, that is, the interval between feedings can be regulated both by proportions and by temperature. At room temperature, we have a certain time interval between feedings. At higher temperatures we feed more often, lower - less often. BUT! Not lower than 12 * C and not higher than 30 * C.

and what is the interval between dressings?
overfeeding rye into wheat (today is the 1st day)
my sourdough began to bubble and increased a little in volume, now it began to fall off ...
feed her now?

... began to fall ...
feed her now?

Feed urgently!
After falling off, it gains acidity, and wheat excess acidity is not needed.

Feed urgently!
After falling off, it gains acidity, and wheat excess acidity is not needed.

yesterday I fed her, and over the last 12 hours she bubbled a little and practically did not increase in volume ...
maybe I'm doing something wrong, or I need to change the flour ... so I want white bread,: cray: but still nothing
if it won't increase anymore when to feed it?

At the first feeding, she rose, but at the last one did not

With a long interval between feedings, it accumulates acid and this can interfere with the reproduction of yeast bacteria, and they are responsible for the rise.
Try taking some of your sourdough and feeding it with equal parts flour and water. That is, how much sourdough - the same amount of water, beat well (you can just use a fork) to saturate with oxygen, and then stir in the same amount of flour, but without beating.
And pay attention to its consistency. Wheat flour is less water-absorbing than rye flour. Perhaps 10 percent of flour will need to be added.