Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Uv. Viki!
tell me how to correctly calculate the amount of leaven required for the dough, if the recipe is for yeast? We can't replace all the flour. It seems to me that you need to take some percentage of flour and water, but what is it? There are just so many recipes for yeast, but you want it on your favorite starter culture))))

And yet I don’t understand in any way: dry purchased leavens - are they leavens in the full sense of the word? That is, you can bake on them without yeast? Or is it still impossible? I have Böcker Rogen and Böcker Germe German, bought, but why - I don't know.

Honestly, I also thought when I ordered dry sourdough

Uv. Viki!
tell me how to correctly calculate the amount of leaven required for the dough, if the recipe is for yeast? We can't replace all the flour.

We cannot replace all the flour in any case. Otherwise, what will our starter culture eat? She really needs fresh flour.
If you have water and flour in the leaven in an equal amount by weight, then the minimum is 200 gr. sourdough. More is possible. I try to add all the rye flour in the sourdough to wheat-rye.
They say that it is ideal that the sourdough contains 30 percent of all the flour of the recipe. Or something like that. But not more than 50%. I tried both 20% and 50, the difference is the rise time. And delicious in any version.

Thank you so much! that's exactly what I wanted to know!

Dear Viki! Please help me figure it out. I have grown tsz leaven. She grew up and turned out like according to the tsz sourdough written in the video. We are already two weeks old and I have baked four breads from 100% cz flour. Everything suits me except for the sour taste. Sensitively sour. I tried to bake all the breads in different ways, using sourdough - and turned it into a thick one and let it ferment overnight, and left it as usual, feeding it with different amounts and different number of times. The result is the same - the crumb is good, the crust is dense. crispy (baked on the hearth), but sour taste. And I still can't figure out when to get it out of the refrigerator (in the refrigerator 12 degrees) so as not to over-acid. I take it out in the morning - I let it warm up for an hour, I feed it, I wait for a 2-fold increase (about 3-4 hours), I feed it again for bread, I wait for an increase again, I knead the bread, I wait for an increase, I knead, I wait for an increase - bake at night? And if you get it the day before. feed, leave overnight - the liquid peroxides, and the thick, which then goes all into bread, also sour. What to do? And one more thing - the sourdough increases in three hours by about 2-2.5 times, and the kneaded bread does not really want to grow even the first time. nor the second. Maybe bread made from 100% ds of flour does not need to be kneaded, but immediately into the proofing basket and after rising - about 4 hours - into the oven? Please help with advice from your experience. If the sour taste does not go away, I want to try to grow a Frenchwoman and convert it to tsz before baking. Will help?

Maybe bread made from 100% ds of flour does not need to be kneaded, but immediately into the proofing basket and after rising - about 4 hours - into the oven? Please help with advice from your experience.

Personally, I don’t cheat. I knead, disperse and bake

[vasaby872008]

vasaby872008 In the evening I take out the starter culture, feed it to the desired mass according to the recipe and leave it overnight. In the morning she has already risen and I knead the dough in the HP, I let it come up for 1 hour in it and then I do the kneading in the form. Then I wait 2-2.5 times to rise and start baking. This is if you need fresh bread for dinner, and if by evening I get it in the morning and the steps are the same. I didn’t bake all the flour on central plant, only part of the wheat was replaced with either central plant or Rye. With the latter two, the dough comes up a little slower than whole on wheat, but not much.

heeeelp !!!
Poke your nose into sweet sourdough buns or sweet pie ... did not find in the section
Sourdough ripens in the morning, gains strength, bread is not kaachuuu, kaachuuu sweet ...

Girls! Thanks for answers! I am still in the stage of looking for an approach to my zfkvask. Again, the bread almost did not rise at all. You can also ask a question - I feed the leaven in half with flour and sun. After ripening, it is sticky for me. Should it be so or not? I make a thick dough starter - for 60-65 grams of water, 100 grams of flour.

Please urgently .... Help with advice! Quite by accident, as always, I baked my sourdough in the oven. But, the bread was still standing on the sourdough, it has not yet risen for the first time just at the proofing. So the question is, is it possible to extract sourdough from this bread for further use, and if so, how to do it? How can I imagine that I left the whole family without bread for several days ...

I read in some LJ that sourdough is made from dough, that is, they take a piece of dough and put it aside, then they take it into a new dough and take a piece again, but in practice I don't know how it is.
and on the walls of the jar, where was the leaven, nothing remained? Or did you bake it right in the jar? If there is left, then you can add flour there, and the leaven will live on) If I'm not mistaken, even 10 g is enough.

I read in some LJ that sourdough is made from dough, that is, they take a piece of dough and put it aside, then they take it into a new dough and take a piece again, but in practice I don't know how it is.
and on the walls of the jar, where was the leaven, nothing remained? Or did you bake it right in the jar? If there is left, then you can add flour there, and the leaven will live on) If I'm not mistaken, even 10 g is enough.

We have all this on the forum, the dough is called old (sour), and the topic with bread is Wheat bread on ripe dough (self-leavening) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=69908.0, and there are enough recipes for such bread on the site, look in the Yeast or Sourdough bread section.

And I also have bread like this:
Wheat bread with old dough dough (BEGINNING)
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71685.0

Wheat bread made from old dough
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=162046.0

How I store and prepare old (sour) dough for kneading
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=159691.0

Choose options

[Admin]

Thank you very much for your responses. I took the sourdoughs from the middle of the jar, but alas, the fever had already done its job. Then I followed the advice Admin, took a piece of ripe dough the size of 2 walnuts, added 50ml. water, beat with a fork until bubbles and added 30 gr. flour. And now, after 2.5 hours, my leaven rose by 1/3 !! Hurrah!

And from ripe dough, I will also try to bake bread, your recipe is already painfully interested

that is great! with new old starter culture!

Greetings to all! My rye sourdough raises both the dough and the dough much more slowly when adding wheat flour, and the rye flour dough raises the dough when adding wheat flour in 1 hour and 50 minutes. Why is that? Does anyone know please answer.

Good day! I put in my first leaven, fed it for the third time in the morning, and I read it like baking bread in KhP. I can't in the oven - it's bad, the thermostat is knocked down (. I constantly read about taking out the scoops from the dough. Is this definitely necessary for something? I somehow removed it in the yeast, then I couldn't take out the bread for a long time, the pins were not with a non-stick coating. As a result, the bread came out, but a whole piece of bread remained on the pin. How to avoid this?

Good day! I put in my first leaven, fed it for the third time in the morning, and I read it like baking bread in KhP. I can't in the oven - it's bad, the thermostat is knocked down (. I constantly read about taking out the scoops from the dough. Is this definitely necessary for something? I somehow removed it in the yeast, then I couldn't take out the bread for a long time, the pins were not with a non-stick coating. As a result, the bread came out, but a whole piece of bread remained on the pin. How to avoid this?

To take out the scapulae from the dough, as far as I understand, is necessary so that there is no second, etc. kneading. Sourdough bread does not have time to rise quickly by leaps and bounds, and therefore the mixers are removed.

and also, so that there is one small hole in the bread, and not a hole from the entire mixer

Thank you! I baked my first one with sourdough - Borodinsky, I didn’t really like it (it’s also not very good with yeast), but the holes are so large. Rye was needed according to the testimony - but no one in the family likes it (we will bake mixed.I did not take out the stirrers - on the contrary, I have neat little holes from them, and put the first "growth" small, and added salt and oil to the second batch. Rose well, better than yeast. MK sourdough from Admin Today the sourdough is getting old, the trouble is to continue to sour

I have a question here
HELP !!!!

There was a raisin sourdough on wheat flour, she lived and did not know grief ... but bread was baked on it exclusively rye (after all, I don't like white sourdough, not something)
How was baked ...
In the evening, the wheat sourdough was taken out of the refrigerator and overfed into rye ... in two passes, that is, once in the evening, the second time in the morning ... in the evening bread was baked
The remains of the sourdough were fed with wheat flour and all this was sent to the refrigerator until the next. times. on the top shelf at mnu gr. 12 so it is. So she could stand for 1.5-2 weeks, acquiring a simply awesome fruity aroma
Well ... I decided not to bother with overfeeding wheat into rye. And during the last baking of rye bread, I fed the leftovers of sourdough with rye flour ...
And the other day I decided to bake some bread, and there ... in a jar of sourdough .. uncommonly greenish and whitish .. in general, mold
But she still smells as awesome fruity ...
Honestly, I didn't touch her for a long time .. two weeks so for sure

It's a pity, Tatyana, we will have to put in a new leaven.
If they were fed with our local flour (for example, the Stolichnaya Mill), then it could contain mold spores, which were glad that no one had disturbed them in 2 weeks.
I lost my sourdough a couple of months ago, and I don’t feed our flour anymore.
Rye sourdough must be fed at least 1 p. in 5 days, so that she at least feels like

Thank you!
It was with such flour that I fed ..
I didn't see any more (somehow Gaspadar came across)
I will grow a new one and feed it as I was taught .. wheat .. and overfeed it in rye every time

She put in the everlasting leaven. Yesterday I fed her a second time - and three hours later she quickly rose to the top of a liter can. In the evening I transferred it to a three-liter one. Today I will feed for the third time. Does this mean that tomorrow is sure to bake? Or can you hold out until the day after tomorrow?

Thanks in advance to those who respond !!!

[Amiga]

She put in the everlasting leaven. Yesterday I fed her a second time - and in three hours she quickly rose to the top of a liter can. In the evening I transferred it to a three-liter one. Today I will feed for the third time. Does this mean that tomorrow is sure to bake? Or can you hold out until the day after tomorrow?

Thanks in advance to those who respond !!!

Amiga Congratulations on joining the ranks of the leavers! : flowers: While the oven is too early, the leaven is not yet ready to make the dough. After the third feeding, if it is also active, then it can be put into action. But for safety reasons, I would add a little yeast.

[tatjanka - Tanechka]

tatjanka - Tanechka

Thanks for the answer!

Forgive me for asking again ... But I would like to clarify about my eternal leaven.

I put her on the 21st. I feed it once a day, keep it in the oven, which I periodically heat up to 30 degrees. The bad smell has practically disappeared, now the smell is just like the smell of rye flour.

If every time you separate half and feed the rest - is it possible to keep the sourdough in this mode for another three days without putting it in the refrigerator? And the second question - to keep at room temperature (we have 22 degrees), or slightly warm in the oven?

[Is it possible to keep the leaven in this mode for another three days without putting it in the refrigerator?]

If every time you separate half and feed the rest - Is it possible to keep the leaven in this mode for another three days without putting it in the refrigerator? And the second question - to keep at room temperature (we have 22 degrees), or slightly warm in the oven?

Of course you can, just continue to feed as you feed the half, you can also do less 3-4st. spoons, for example, and you can hold it longer than 3 days.
At 22 deg. at home, the leaven will ripen wonderfully and there is no need to put it in the oven.
Good luck to you!

[Olekma]

Olekma

Thanks for the tip!

How do you know if the leaven is ripe enough to bake?

[Olekma]

Olekma

Thanks for the tip!

How do you know if the leaven is ripe enough to bake?

Amiga I am not special in this whole process of growth and maturity of the sourdough, but I think that for 3-4 days if you fed it and it grew 2 times or more, then you can start up.

[tatjanka - Tanechka]

tatjanka - Tanechka

Thank you!

Tell me who dried the leaven into powder for storage, and then restored it. Happened? I have no reaction yet, the second day I added water. I am conducting an experiment, preparing for a vacation :)

Another question: I have 2 "eternal" leavens, from wheat and rye flour, I feed it in the morning and in the evening on 10/30/30, I don't put it in the refrigerator, every time it manages to rise 4 times and fall off. The bread is good. Am I doing everything right, or do I need to give her some rest sometime? It's too cold in my refrigerator, I don't want to spoil the "breed".

... I feed in the morning and in the evening on 10/30/30, I don't put it in the refrigerator, every time I manage to rise 4 times and fall off. The bread is good. Am I doing everything right, or do I need to give her some rest sometime?

Everything is correct! She does not need to rest, she lives while she works. The leaven - it is almost like a "perpetual motion machine" - that's why they called it eternal.

Hello everyone! I tried kefir sourdough. Today is her 3rd day. Almost immediately began to bubble. on the 2nd day, when feeding for 1 hour, it doubled, the smell is very pleasant. a little yeast and kind of smells like apples, read it, this smell should be. I really feed with water and flour, I don't add kefir and it doubles in about an hour. But he no longer walks and falls after a while. I read that a good starter culture should increase in volume by 4 times, but I can't. Tell me, do you need to do something or will she get stronger herself?

I read that a good leaven should increase in volume by 4 times, but I can't. Tell me, do you need to do something or will she get stronger herself?

There are starter cultures of different density. When flour and water are equal in weight in the leaven, it can lift itself twice or a little higher. Dense starter cultures rise up to 4 times in volume. This is when the flour is twice (or almost twice) as much as water. It is mixed with a tight - tight lump, in the process of fermentation it becomes less tight and increases fourfold.

Hello, I'm new here and I have two questions, my mom and I made an eternal leaven according to the recipe, but there were no bubbles, and the dough didn't rise at all, what did we do wrong, we live in Israel.
and the second question about the bread maker, how many times has my mother told me that she wants a bread maker, but she just can't buy it, or at least just throw it out, and in Israel there is apparently only one model of the old company Morphy Richards, so the question is where to look at bread makers of other companies in Israel and not on the coast like Tel Aviv or Netanya.

[viena]

Hello, I'm new here and I have two questions, my mom and I made an eternal leaven according to the recipe, but there were no bubbles, and the dough didn't rise at all, what did we do wrong, we live in Israel.

viena, hello, how long have you been growing your starter culture? And how well did she begin to show herself that you decided to bake bread on her? : girl_red: If the leaven is ripe well, then the bread should turn out (y) It looks like yours has not yet matured to the end.

Please tell me, is sourdough bread always sour? I put rye - baked two breads, rye and wheat, they went up perfectly, but sour. We don't like this kind of bread. I tried to grow a French liquid, it didn't work. Is it worth trying again, or is the bread always sour? Thank you in advance!

[Marg]

Please tell me, is sourdough bread always sour? I put rye - baked two breads, rye and wheat, they went up perfectly, but sour. We don't like this kind of bread. I tried to grow a French liquid, it didn't work. Is it worth trying again, or is the bread always sour? Thank you in advance!

Marg I don't know why, but sometimes sourdough bread turns out to be sour, and sometimes not.Mostly without sourness. I can't say what it depends on, maybe because I overexpose with the proofing. Can experienced gurus know?

I have eternal leaven, rye. She's already a couple of weeks old.
When feeding, it increases by 2-3 times.
Dough also normally raises 2 times.

But, when kneading the dough - it does not rise at all .. I am trying to bake whole wheat wheat on it for the second time and it does not work. The rye bake on it rose quite a bit, but in general I was satisfied with the result.
Are there any tricks in the kneading or the sequence of the ingredients?
I add olive oil at the end of the batch.

Thank you.

Eternal leaven, apparently, mine is covered. On Sunday morning I put it on, on Monday morning I fed her, arrived by dinner, she wanted to run away. I poured it into a large container, after that and subsequent dressings there was complete silence. No movement. Therefore, today I thought to throw it away, the smell is very sour, the taste is too. Before throwing it away, I decided to separate and feed a part. Either she was scared, or some other aspect played a role, BUT the old one, which she did not separate, became covered with small bubbles, partially turned white with them, if I can describe it that way. Tomorrow I will feed again .. The one that I separated, fed, is silent.
I wanted to put the kefir starter culture from Admin, bought kefir, left it on the table, I started to separate, over and over again I reread the branch and questions and answers about the starter culture and lactic acid starter culture. BUT I did not find information for myself how much to take kefir initially?
For 3 days we will feed her and as far as I understand, you can either make it like a thick dough for pancakes, or 100 ml of kefir and rye flour. Can you please tell me how much kefir should I initially take in order to grow, bake the first bread and send a part to rest? Because in a branch who takes half a liter, who takes a liter, who a glass. I've been reading for the second day, such a mess in my head. Already at night I dreamed of a runaway leaven! But such success is still far away.

PLEASE, PLEASE, WRITE A RECIPE FOR PREPARING MATERIAL SURVEY. And then when you click on the link, it says that the page is closed or the entrance is closed.

Wasabi, here's copied for you Masterbatch from Admin from the topic of masterbatch.
PREPARATION OF WHEEL STEADER

1st stage: Stir 100 g of rye flour and 100 ml of lukewarm water in a bowl, cover and keep in a warm place at a temperature of about 30 ° C for 24 hours. The lactic acid bacteria contained in the dough multiply.

2nd stage: add another 100 g of rye flour and 100 ml of warm water, stir everything. Allow to distance for 24 hours at room temperature 25 ° C. In this case, acetic acid is formed, aroma appears.

3rd stage: 200 g of rye flour and 200 ml of warm water are now added and the mixture is allowed to stand for another 24 hours. Dough fermentation takes place, acid and aromatic substances develop in an optimal amount.
If you want to have a guarantee that the supplied starter culture will be successful, add to the mass at the 1st stage 50-100 g of ready-made starter culture, which you can buy or take from the baker.
After 3 days, the fermentation process will end, and the sourdough can be used to prepare the dough: the amount indicated in the recipe is weighed and added to the flour and other ingredients.
Remove about 2 handfuls of the remaining amount and place in a glass screw-top jar. Store in a cool cellar or refrigerator for about a week. In addition, the leaven can be frozen, then all activity in it will cease.
Only in warmth, with the addition of liquid, with the use of air and rye flour, does it again acquire activity and the ability to ferment. If the sourdough is intertwined in this way all the time, then it will live for 100 years and will be passed from generation to generation thanks to the regularly repeating baking days. More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1779.0

Can you please tell me which bread recipe to choose for a young, still weak MK leaven, but without adding yeast, so that she could raise it herself?

Bosco thank you very much!

And the dough suddenly began to rise, and before baking, it rose almost under the roof of the bucket! And that's 2 cups of sourdough + just 1.5 tsp. yeast for such a volume of rye flour. In general, my baked bread in Hitachi turned out to be 20 cm tall and weigh 1555 grams. The bread turned out to be porous along the entire height, soft, baked, the dome is good, not fallen, with cracks on top, the crust is ruddy. Well done kefir sourdough - did a great job! And how is yeast-free bread just sourdough ?! Roma has sourdough plus yeast here ?! How to understand this ?!

As far as I understand, while the leaven is young, weak, a little yeast is added to it. We can't have yeast, so I'm looking for a recipe that would be possible on a young sourdough without yeast right away. As far as I understand, it is easier to rise on white flour, bread without yeast, on sourdough?

Girls, tell a novice baker if there is a certain ratio of sourdough = yeast, as well as the ratio of sourdough to flour ... Sorry if it's messy.

Girls, tell a novice baker if there is a certain ratio of sourdough = yeast, as well as the ratio of sourdough to flour.

There is no such relationship. As, however, and there is no ratio of the amount of yeast to flour. Let me explain: we take the ratio of 2 g of yeast (fresh) per 100 g of flour, focusing on the time - about 3 - 4 hours (cycle in HP). This does not mean that taking 5 g of yeast per 100 g of flour, I will not bake bread in 1.5 hours, or taking only 5 g of yeast per kilogram of flour, I will not bake bread ... let's say - by morning.
The situation is the same with leaven. When I take 100 - 150 g of sourdough for bread, where the total amount of flour is 500 g, the fermentation will be long and the proofing of the dough before baking will also take a couple - three hours. When I take 500 g of sourdough on the same bread, I know that the dough will be fermented in 1 h 10 min - 1 h 30 min and the proofing will take no more than an hour and a half, or even less than an hour.
When you see in a recipe:
100 g sourdough, 450 g flour, 250 g water
200 g sourdough, 400 g flour, 200 g water
300 g of sourdough, 350 g of flour, 150 g of water, and the rest of the components are the same (provided that the amount of water and flour in the sourdough is equal in weight) is one and the same bread. The amount of flour and water in it, including the leaven, is the same. The only difference is the cooking time.
However, there is a maximum amount of sourdough that is not recommended to be exceeded. This is 50% of the flour from the whole recipe in sourdough. That is, if you want to bake bread for 500 g of flour, then in the sourdough you should have no more than 250 g of flour. If you take more, the bread will be of poor quality.

[Viki]

Viki, Good day. It turns out that the amount of yeast / sourdough affects the rate of fermentation and the quality of the bread. Right? The more the worse. I used to bake bread with sourdough mixed flour. I made the leaven using kefir. Starter culture age month. The ascent process went badly. The bread turned out to be not high by about 1/2 the volume of the form, sour and even slightly bitter
What was wrong?
recipe, main program 3:00
Ready-made sourdough -200g. ...
Wheat flour 450g. (I made 40% whole grain)
Sugar 15 gr.
Salt 9 gr.
Plum oil. 30 gr.
Milk (water) 290ml.