Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

[fffuntic]

Thank you for responding girls
fffunticI love the well-developed gluten and downy crumb.
I had 2 cheap x / p, both in cycles of 2 mixes with a pause for autolysis between them 20-40 minutes.
The bread is obtained, just during a pause before the second (intensive) kneading, you have to remove the bucket from the x \ n and cool for 10 minutes in the refrigerator, because during the 2nd batch it turns on the heating (the heating elements click several times) and heats up to 36-38 * on the sides of the bucket. Taking into account the already fermented dough, gluten may not withstand such heating during mixing. A couple of times I watched the process of destruction with my own eyes. I want a c / n, which does not heat up during mixing (at least in one mode).
mamusi
so I also ferment the dough separately. But then, when my cotton mixes the dough on it, she not only kneads it, but also heats it too much ... This destroys the gluten already developed by the dough. And without dough, I don't taste good and the aroma is not the same. I also add sourdough to the dough.

It heats up in 2501 in Mode 9, in my opinion, and this mode is different in that it knocks ...
All other modes start with Standing ~ equalizing temperatures.
And I can’t say for sure, that is, I don’t vouch, but not all modes (that’s to be exact) heat up during kneading.
Many girls ~ we have real craftswomen ~ bake complex bread ... and they have Panasonic ...
She is very smart and with different abilities ...

[dough addition]

And who else would explain how to do a 3-hour clock in Panasonic with a cold daily allowance, is it generally from what opera? this is something closer to our leavening technologies, and not to HP modes.

here is the second part more understandable: the person asks about the temperatures in the modes. Here you need to measure it with a thermometer. But personally I won't do it for a minute. Maybe one of you will measure when the bread will be made.

Truth may be meant dough additionprepared manually? then it is quite possible to put it on automatic mode, reducing the amount of yeast. Our panasonic woman can handle it. Him on fig. And if you make dough in it, then I pass

That the leaven, that the dough as improvers can be shoved in and it will be delicious

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, I make the dough separately, in advance. Panas is not important here. It is important how he will knead and ferment the dough with this dough.

then you don't have to worry. The bread will turn out great. You're not the first. And we pop the dough, and leaven, and additives
Quite good modes.

Added Saturday 25 March 2017 4:03 PM

Although .. what do you mean? You should be prepared to add yeast to regulate the rise in HP. Because doughs, leavens and others have a rise time not on schedule, but as they hunt. This may not work.

The truth is, maybe you mean the addition of dough made by hand? then it is quite possible to put it on automatic mode, reducing the amount of yeast.

exactly! I reduce the yeast to a micro dose of 1/6 tsp.

I also add the leaven to the dough.

I used to bake a lot with sourdough, but now I don't ...
Baked in Panasonic on Semi-automatic ... wheat-rye and rye-wheat from our website ...
I made a Kneading of sourdough + flour + water on dumplings. Disconnected, left until doubled ... Then put Baking for 1 hour 15 minutes.
All!)))
I don't know, really, what kind of technology you have ...
I don't like white sourdough bread, well ... or they didn't work out ... I can
Now, for many reasons, I bake only with yeast.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, then there is a hope that the auto mode will not overheat? If I had not seen with my own eyes the destruction of the dough from overheating during kneading, I would not have understood what they are asking about either ...

I reduce the yeast to a micro dose of 1/6 tsp.

And for what purpose are you reducing the dose of yeast?

[mamusi]

mamusi, on a semi-automatic without problems in any x / n. I would like to put the dough and everything else in cotton and leave with a clear conscience ...

And for what purpose are you reducing the dose of yeast?

Determined the dose empirically. Taking into account the leaven, this is exactly enough for the dough to rise to the top of the bucket during the proofing in my cotton and not to stand. And I like the aroma of bread. I don't suffer from yeast phobia

Well, actually for all those who like long fermentation, I used to recommend my programmable firebrand. But now you can't buy it.
With similar programming there is polaris 5 ..., but there on the machine the programs are generally lower than the plinth, the purchase will be only for one !!! programmed mode, and it seems to be praised. The mode is steep as far as possible, but that's only on it and you have to bake.
And if there are machines, then only panasik or kenwood, the rest do not roll at all. In Kenwood, the programming is unfinished, just high-temperature, there is also only one automatic mode "homemade dough" left.
I like our Panasik more of Kenwood's capabilities.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, studied both Kenwood and Polaris. Polaris is too big, Kenwood - yes, inferior in programmed mode. The brand went down in history ... When everyone bought it, I baked in the oven and was not interested in x \ n. And now it is pinned, because there is not enough time for manual baking in the oven.

Determined the dose empirically. This is just enough for the dough to rise to the top of the bucket during the proofing in my cotton and not stand. And I like the aroma of bread. I don't suffer from yeast phobia

Oh, well, yes, it's important
And then I really thought that again about the harm of yeast. And prepared the answer

Dialogue from Luda's blog - marianaaga

... And another question about the article. For a long time he torments me: healthy food and bread, especially yeast. Now, after all, it is a hunt for yeast from lovers of healthy food. Yeast is said to destroy us. And I am trying to understand everything and am waiting for your expert opinion, whether this is so. Isn't leaven yeast? do we get little yeast from sources other than bread? Can instant yeast be harmful? Are real, living, bio (I buy such) and not harmful at all? I understand that bread, especially white bread, is not the most useful product, and for a family I often bake non-white bread, and besides, you can stuff all sorts of healthy seeds. I can't imagine life without bread, without baking at home, but I want to somehow relax about this ... otherwise I cook, I treat ... and inside the worm sits, they say, why don't you give healthy food to children ...

I have not heard such that yeast ruined us, Nata :) There are very few of them in bread and they are baked, they are just a source of vitamins and protein. In this sense, they are curative if a person has vitamin deficiency. A technique is currently being developed in the United States to use yeast to treat cancer.

There are many of them on the surface of fruits, cereals, so people eat a lot of live yeast with porridge, grapes and apples, plums and cucumbers and other delights from the garden and from the branch. There is a lot of live yeast in kefir, kvass, honey. I’m not talking about beer and wine. Live yeast lives in the intestines of any living creature, in symbiosis with bacteria, they are part of the ecosystem of a healthy intestine.

Instant yeast is just a way of preserving yeast, a special way of drying it. Dry yeast is alive, it just sleeps. So that they sleep for a long time, they are stored in a vacuum package or in a freezer. If you wet them, they wake up.

"Live" or pressed - this is another way of preserving yeast, putting it to sleep for a period from a week to two months with cold at the level of 2-4C. "Natural" or "fresh" yeast in a yeast plant is a sweet slurry, a mixture of yeast cells and nutrient syrup. It is washed from the syrup, dried, and yeast is pressed for sale in briquettes and cooled.

Bread itself is not harmful, of course.A person needs to receive a certain amount of calories in food in the form of starchy foods: cereals, potatoes, corn, legumes or bread from the same cereals from which cereals are prepared (buckwheat pancakes, wheat loaf, rye rugs, barley and oat cakes), bread from corn, bread from "potatoes" - African bread from cassava, their analogue of our potatoes.

Bread is just one way to eat grains and tubers - a dense source of calories and long-lasting carbohydrates, a special group of vitamins and essential fiber for health.

Without starchy food in our diet, we would be busy all day eating greens, vegetables and fruits, like monkeys who chew all day and they have no more time for anything, no scientific and technological progress, conquering new territories and thinking about democracy or foreign languages. Non-starchy foods have very few calories per gram or kilogram of food, and primates eat fifty servings of twig fruit and lettuce (leaves) a day to fill.

Another thing is that modern man is so carried away by high-calorie food that he began to consume few fruits and vegetables. High-calorie food - starchy, animal food, fats from a pack or bottle - "fast", Bread and Butter or its equivalent - a bun with nuts on a crust - can be eaten in a minute without distracting from the TV, driving, reading, etc. A full breakfast, lunch or dinner contains so many vegetables and fruits in addition to bread-porridge-soup with noodles or peas (almost a kilogram of vegetables and fruits in each meal for a 50 kg person, twice as much for an athlete or steelmaker), which takes almost an hour to eat. And now everyone has a shortage of time. No one sits at the table.

Bread and white bread are the highest technological and cultural achievements of humanity, Nat. Yeast - an advantage over starter. He frees people from the inhumanly difficult and long labor of preparing their daily bread. So don't be shy.

You need to be shy not about bread-pasta-potatoes-porridge, but about the fact that the child and the adult have not been served with them even plates of beans (proteins, fiber), plates of boiled-baked non-starchy vegetables, plates of salad (raw vegetables) and fruit for dessert. In this place, fighters for healthy eating have a blind spot. And you say yeast ... Their attention is riveted to microscopic amounts of baked yeast in bread, there are literally micrograms of them per loaf of bread, and they do not notice the elephant.

[Gibus]

Gibus, well, then I'm definitely for Panasik. Panasika has delicious bread even without dough. If you shorten the time and taste delicious - it's to us.

Added Saturday 25 March 2017 04:27 PM

In, Natalie came. She can even bungle dough in the stove. She has it with a starter. We sit here more backward

[Waist]

Waist,
Do you have a Euro-version of Panas?

[Linen]

Linen, do you know anecdote?

Selling camera Nikon XXXX
Because it turns out she does not photograph herself, but you need to be able

So it is with me Truth I do not sell, but still I do not know how.

Added Saturday 25 March 2017 04:33 PM

Do you have a Euro-version of Panas?

Yes she

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, then there is a hope that the auto mode will not overheat? If I had not seen with my own eyes the destruction of the dough from overheating during kneading, I would not have understood what they were asking about either ...

we bake flour here, and you will "overheat". Well, only if you put too weak flour on the main mode. And so there are modes for any flour.

Added Saturday 25 March 2017 04:40 PM

a new medium-sized polaris a la cartoon in a bread maker 6 ... some kind of there, also with a programmable mode. But I did not study it properly for possibilities. In general, the Polaris has just awful heating on the machine on the proofers. But it is the programmable mode that is praised.
Panasik has excellent bread, but nevertheless, it is precisely in time. If 7 hours of fermentation is just asleep, then you will have to do with 5.
If that suits you, then you need to take Panasik.
Kenwood has only one home mode that appeals to me. The rest are inferior to Panasik.

[Waist]

Waist,
what is special about Rustic Sourdough mode? It is about as long as our Low-Yeast, but the kneading lasts 45-55 minutes according to the instructions versus our 15-30. Probably indicated with a pause?

we bake flour here, and you will "overheat". Well, only if you put too weak flour on the main mode. And so there are modes for any flour.

Well, Duc, and I bake the central heating system, but if, in my x / p ten, when kneading 112 * and hissing from a wet rag, then no flour will stand ...

Waist,
what is special about Rustic Sourdough mode? It is about the same time as our Low Yeast, but the kneading lasts 45-55 minutes according to the instructions against our 15-30. Probably indicated with a pause?

I didn't check it and didn't bake anything on it. One of these days I will check and unsubscribe

when kneading 112 * and hissing from a wet rag, no flour will stand here ...

this is ... a guard ... just ...

[Waist]

new medium-sized polaris a la cartoon in a bread machine 6 ...

I'll go read it, I didn't know about that.
Waist, Thank you!

it's ... the guard ... just ...

yeah .. short-term, but very rough warming up for the first 2 minutes of kneading ... Of course, not all the heat is transferred to the bucket, but still too much ...

[butter]

what kind of bread? I'm curious. HP has a recipe

$ vetLana, this recipe is not here. I'll write here: yeast - 1.5 tsp, wheat flour (I took the highest grade) - 300 g, rye flour - 150 g, fermented malt - 2 tbsp. spoons (no need to brew), salt - 1.5 tsp, sugar (according to the recipe honey, but I took sugar) - 1.5-2 tbsp. spoons (I have 1.5), milk powder - 2 tbsp. spoons (I didn’t use it, but took 80 ml of milk and 250 ml of water), 330 ml of water (my roof of bread fell off a little (although the bun was perfect), so next time I want to take 300 ml, although, if you count according to the table, then 330 ml is correct), butter - 20 g (I did not weigh, I always take the oil by eye), cumin - 1.5 tbsp. spoons. Mode Basic, size L, medium crust color. If you are going to bake, it would be interesting to know your opinion.

bought on the market, today 1.5 whey, where to put so much I don’t know yet

Nika, how is this to be done? The most delicious pancakes, one might say ideal, are based on whey. And to please yourself, beloved? Hair mask, especially now spring, vitamin deficiency.

Usually there bimetallic rods are heated up and down there.

Unlikely. Bimetal is used when the sensor works simultaneously as a switch. And here the sensor is used only as a meter. (Remember how he sets the leveling mode when the room is cold. Mixing starts immediately at the 35th minute of the timer.)
I think there is a conventional 10K ohm thermistor without any fuss, like in simple electronic thermometers. Hardly even anything of the DS18B20 level.
Therefore, when it is artificially cooled in the HP, a permit is issued to work "from the center of the field" after turning it off / on, regardless of the background of what was going on there.

here someone's oven was already cut down on baking. It's just not clear whether it is from the sensor, or from its signal on the board.
It has protection against overheating, but how it is implemented is a question.

some suggest making cottage cheese and whey by freezing St. kefir, and then defrosting ...

Nika, I recently made such a "curd". Then I did not know where to put it. It was impossible to call it cottage cheese.

I make curd like this. I really like it - both to eat (it is very tasty with raisins), and to use for other purposes. If put under the press, it turns out very close to ricotta. On the basis of such cottage cheese, I make a lot of various pastes - with herbs and garlic, with fresh peppers and herbs, with garlic and sun-dried tomatoes, etc., etc.

Nika, how is this to be done? The most delicious pancakes, one might say ideal, are based on whey.

I also love whey pancakes, but I make them in half with milk.

If you are going to bake, it would be interesting to know your opinion.

Marina, I will bake it, because I have never baked bread with rye flour in milk.I wrote down the recipe.

I will definitely bake

Svetlana, and note that the butter must be butter.

[Marina]

Marina, I do not eat creamy, only vegetable.

[Waist]

Took to read the thread since 2015 ... So much useful information! We discussed everything for a long time Read - do not reread!
Special respect Waist
I am a little confused by the large number of photos of breads with dark sides, despite the fact that neither Franz nor Wholegrain (Dietich) has a crust setting. Are Panasonic generally strong roasting?

Girls this little bread from Sonadora ~ Manechki that I baked today.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=224735.0

Completely in HP. But with a preliminary Kneading on dumplings. Then Main.
Cut it open. I didn't have enough patience. Cool down. Delicate, fragrant, with a characteristic taste of wheat flour!) Yum!

I don't eat creamy

Svetlana, then, of course, vegetable.

The shadow falls from the phone itself, for the evening!
The bread is not dark, light, sunny.

[mamusi]

mamusi, good bread, and the crust is just right - not thick and not too dark. This is "average" right?

[Gibus]

Gibus, yes, in the middle. Size L. 510 g flour

[mamusi]

mamusi, Rita, baked with powdered milk? On water or whey?

Dark sides on photos of people ~ these are the flaws of cameras and phones. For some reason, quite ordinary ruddy sides sometimes turn out dark in the pictures. Don't be alarmed!
Panasonic bakes evenly and accurately.

Added Saturday 25 Mar 2017 08:19 PM

mamusi, Rita, baked with dry milk? On water or whey?

I don’t buy milk powder ... for some reason not at all.
I baked in regular milk ... (this is how I replace water + milk powder always) ...

Added Saturday 25 Mar 2017 08:20 PM

Sveta, took ghee butter. 28g as per recipe.

Baked on ordinary milk ... (

Only with milk? Did you add water?

[$ vetLana]

$ vetLana, no.

I think there is an ordinary thermal resistance for 10K. It costs no fancy,

Exactly. I read it here, someone posted a step-by-step repair. Or maybe I'm confusing ... But the thermistor is just. It is necessary to clarify with Sasha where I read about this.

[And at ultra they heat up for a long time and they kill everything in fig]

Why is pasteurized milk healthy and UHT completely dead? Because they are pasteurized according to the proven technology so as to kill bacteria with precision.
For example, let's say it is known that a harmful stick dies at 70 degrees there in a minute, and a useful one can withstand three minutes. And then they heat only a minute.
During pasteurization, rather high temperatures are used, but strictly in time.
And at ultra they heat up for a long time and they kill everything in fig

This is not so, but almost the opposite.

UHT technology - processing raw milk for 2-3 seconds with sterile steam at 135-150 ° C... Then the milk is immediately cooled to 4-5 ° C and poured into a sterile sealed package.

Pasteurization technology - one-time heating of liquid products or substances up to 60 ° C for 60 minutes or at a temperature of 70-80 ° C for 30 minutes.

UHT is one of the most gentle milk processing methods today. After the processing of raw milk, UHT milk retains a significant portion of all water-soluble vitamins B1, B6, B12, C, polyunsaturated fatty acids, lysine and cystine. The concentration of beta-carotene, as well as vitamins A, D, B2, B3, PP, N.

The main advantage of UHT milk over pasteurized ...

At the end of the pasteurization process, some heat-resistant bacteria and their spores remain in the milk, and during ultra-pasteurization, due to the higher processing temperature, bacteria in the milk are completely destroyed, while all the beneficial substances in the milk are preserved, since the heat treatment lasts only 2-4 seconds!

[Gal]

Gal, I wrote about sterilized, and inadvertently designated it as ultra-pasteurized. But people realized that I was talking about killed milk.In the sense that it is already boiled-boiled, it can be pushed into the dough without manual boiling.
And it turns out that ultra-pasteurized is impossible. It still needs to be boiled, it's alive.

And it turns out that ultra-pasteurized is impossible. It still needs to be boiled, it's alive.

I think that it is hardly alive.
I have this (the photo was taken for another) ultra-pasteurized

milk was stored in the room forgotten on the floor behind an old monitor from July (release date) until next May or whatever. And an open package in the fridge can easily cost a month. By the way, when it does spoil, it does not turn sour, but simply becomes bitter.
Maybe it's not milk at all? But both waffles and batter are excellent on it. And sometimes I add it to the ice cream mixture.

[Konstantin]

Konstantin, during vacuumization, pasteurization, the very microorganisms that cause this rapid souring are killed. The product is partially sterilized.
Therefore, such a product does not turn sour, but as the shelf life ends, it is attacked by putrefactive bacteria that sit in our refrigerators.
The whole problem is that they are the most tenacious, and not fermented milk. And in such milk there are no longer protective bacteria.
In order for a partially sterilized product to behave in a standard manner, it must be populated with beneficial lactic acid bacteria. For example, toss a slice of black bread and leave it warm so that cold usurpers don't get in the way of useful newbies.
Therefore, when the milk does not turn sour, it may be the presence of antibiotics and simply the result of sterilization. When you add a slice of bread, it becomes clear. Only it is necessary to add before it decays, fermented milk will no longer be able to overcome many putrefactive bacteria. They will work in fresh produce

Luda (marianna-yeah studied this issue, but I remembered)

[Gibus]

Gibus, sorry, for example, I'm not in courses yet
Marisha Aleksevna, I'll try it today, only now my flour is strange ... How should I call bread?
Irinabr, Svetlana, Thank you
while I read everything that I wrote yesterday ... oh, it seems like I drank no more than a glass of shampoo yesterday at the anniversary, but I'm dull,
Konstantin, I am also thinking about it, I took it for yoghurts, but it does not turn sour in the refrigerator for weeks ... so I think, was there a boy?
fffuntic, respect

Marisha, I replaced the milk with whey, I don’t know what it will turn out, because, being afraid of this flour, she diluted it with 1 sec., Brewed the malt a little ..., one of the girls wrote, here that didn’t happen to the unbrewed one ...
The gingerbread man is alive, but sticks to his fingers, she decided not to add anything.

Added Sunday March 26, 2017 5:47 PM

Apparently I didn't interfere today, it was necessary to mix the roof for the first time "tore" from one side.
The malt I bought allows me to bake bread without brewing. The taste, just somehow sharper than with brewed malt, looks more like a store-bought one. Here it is, cut, still lukewarm
the taste is worthy, the spouse liked it. In my case: decent bread without a large number of VS

spouse liked

That will be bread for my husband! Correct to the desired one and Hurray. Otherwise: tie it up ... don't bake ...
Well done, Nikusha

[Natalia]

Natalia, thanks,: a-kiss: all thanks to your help here, advice, recipes: friends: this time I mixed 4 types of flour, and baked on basic, not dietary, but the result is no worse. I'll also check it on milk in order to understand the difference for myself, in this recipe.

Not .. and I will not support. Although the bread is tasty, you cannot eat a lot of it.
These are carbohydrates that make you fat. These are not salads.
A couple of pieces, or even a piece per day for me is quite normal. And even then from black bread.
You need to lean on fruits and vegetables. And wheat on holidays, well, at worst on weekends. This will be more correct.

If you want to bake, hand it out to neighbors and at work.

How to name bread

Nika, the bread is called "Norwegian Rye Bread". I did it as in the recipe, I did not brew the malt, I took butter and took the highest grade wheat flour.I moved away from the recipe only by using ordinary 2.7% fat instead of dry milk. Well, whoever has what, he does so.

Could you please answer my question: does the Panasonic SD-2500 Bread Maker definitely have a dispenser? My HP Radish got me, then it doesn’t contain the dough, then it doesn’t bake, everything has to be done in manual mode, which doesn’t exist at all, I’m tired of keeping an eye on it all the time .. Now it’s ripe for Panasonic, but only without a dispenser!

yes, without dispenser
that's just not clear what he did not please. If there is a dispenser, then there is no need to monitor the additives. Panasik's dispenser is quite normal.