Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

[Yulia]

Yulia, if you bake with sourdough on standard modes, then be sure to add yeast. 1g of dry yeast is sufficient. Question - do you have a young starter or is it already several weeks old? If only they brought it out, then it may simply not have gained its lifting force and later it may well become stronger and faster to lift bread. If she already has at least a month, then most likely you have come out with a leaven with a weak lifting force and it is advisable to add yeast to it in any case, since the bread will rise too slowly and will then be very sour. Indeed, lactic acid bacteria live in the leaven with yeast, which will secrete acid. In small quantities, it is useful for bread and gives it a unique aroma. But when sourdough bread rises for too long, a lot of acid accumulates and the bread begins to sour. And one more thing - sourdough bread with long-term storage becomes sour day by day, that is, not all bacteria die during baking.

I wanted to try it, just without brewing, as it says on a pack of malt, now I don't know ... is it worth the risk ... since you didn't succeed

So it just happened with malt!))) I just made black bread in a slow cooker and using yeast. It really tastes like in a store,

even tastier. And now I bought a bread maker. I suffer with yeast-free sourdoughs, and I pester people))) I haven’t tried to put malt in the bread maker yet, neither dry nor brewed, - and so many new impressions. In addition, someone needs to eat ready-made bread - we can't cope, and the birds are already full outside the window)))
I'll still have to try to brew the malt. For the rest, I will leave my old recipe and slow cooker, for the purity of the experiment. Then I'll tell you what happened))

strictly adhere to the recommendations of those who have already tried and succeeded. Their way to grow leaven

If only the recommendations were the same ...)) The leaven that I now have - it fermented for 6 days. I tried it fresh and dried. For pies, by the way, it is gorgeous (they rise by leaps and bounds), but for bread - not really like. I also saw a recipe in which she wanders for 3 days, and then immediately into the bread dough 1: 1. Some have it in the refrigerator for years. And - yes, oh-very capricious! We have to wait for the summer, otherwise suddenly she’s just chilly ...)))

on sourdough on standard modes, then be sure to add yeast

Mom is against yeast ... strongly against ... (

Question - do you have a young starter or is it already several weeks old?

6 days grew, then it was dried

Sourdough bread becomes sour from day to day when stored for a long time, that is, not all bacteria die during baking.

Yes, indeed, it sours. I thought it was because it was badly baked. But it turns out there is a scientific explanation. Thank you! (harmful bacteria: at first, not everyone works and the bread does not rise normally, then not everyone dies when baking ...))

[Yulia]

Yulia, I now have sourdough on rye flour, but I overfed the Frenchwoman. The Frenchwoman flatly refused to lift me white bread. I overfed it into rye, keep it in the refrigerator and bake Darnitsky bread on it. She in its present form raises it very well. But I bake in the oven, only the KHP makes for me.
The dried sourdough must be revived for several days, so nothing will surely rise on it. The leaven must be kept ready-made; it can live in the refrigerator for up to three days.I dried the leaven so that after the holidays I had it and did not have to withdraw it again.

1. Stop.

Why does leaven work well for pies and bad for bread? I dare to suggest warmer conditions for fermentation are chosen for pies. But then it will be unrealistic to raise bread in auto modes without adding ordinary yeast in any way. Then you need to bake the way you make pies.
If the leaven dictates its own terms, there is no way around them.
Perhaps just the service warm mode will be the very thing.

2. Against the mother of yeast or not, but the strain of yeast selected in the industry is very widespread and tenacious, for which it was taken for breeding. It is found everywhere, as the main bread. That is, it should be present in your sourdough with a very high degree of probability, but besides it there are many other strains, weaker and warring, therefore the sourdough is also weaker in rise.
If my mom can tell that all these horror stories about industrial yeast are horror stories. Because whether you add them or not, you still get the same yeast in any sourdough. Well, they live everywhere, not just in a box in a store
And fears ... whether yeast will survive or not, it is quite possible to apply to sourdoughs
If yeast intolerance, then yeast intolerance will also be observed.

And the benefit of the sourdough is not that the yeast is different there, but that there are many useful bacteria and, accordingly, the substances they produce. Therefore, a small addition of yeast, well, without detracting from the benefits of sourdough, will help to raise bread in an accelerated time.

However, it is very difficult to convince someone. Especially when there is mass agitation in favor of the existence of a mythical "yeast-free sourdough", so since you need to do it exclusively on home-grown sourdough, then take into account its requirements, and not the regime in the bread maker.

Sourdough is difficult and unpredictable for HP with automatic programs. Sourdough bread often rises longer than auto modes in HP.
It is then necessary to be able to grow the same strong leaven as yeast.

It is then necessary to be able to grow the same strong leaven as yeast.

But the result of growing sourdough is not predictable. My first Frenchwoman was very, very strong, the bread rose quickly. Then the vacation, this leaven disappeared (for some reason I was not puzzled by drying it to preserve the leaven) and the next one was very sluggish. Then I tried it again, it also turned out to be sluggish. Well, my homemade people don't like the excessive sourness in white bread, so the leaven was translated purely for rye-wheat bread. The sourness in it is very, very useful.

I'm afraid to advise anything in this regard. I left home-grown delights far in the past precisely because of the unpredictability and the requirement of ferments to myself of great concern.
But if today I needed a leaven, then most likely I would try to buy it
I found something like the sekowa bacterial enzyme, looked at the bakery research institutes nearby, or something like that, where you can buy ready-made strong sourdough.
I don't like this: I tried, I tried, but it didn't work out. And why do I need HP then, if you won't leave her?

And now I keep the sourdough only because of the rye bread. Without it, I don't like the taste of bread. But for rye, there are fewer sourdough requirements. Therefore, I keep it. And so I like white bread with ordinary yeast. Here I bake a sliced ​​recipe. For a change, I took out the dough on the cold balcony for the night. And a completely different taste of Mnyamka. Or on a dough from old dough - such rubberiness appears in the taste.

[Konstantin]

They all forgot about me, but I took it and came on leave.
Konstantin, I have a mobile wi-fi router, the thing is certainly good and convenient, but there is one weighty "BUT" This is the level and quality of the signal ... When the signal is disgusting, there is not much sense, I suffer every year there with the Internet: -
Margarita, Thank you
Natalia, Thank you

You can live without HP and the Internet

It's just not real or relevant

Added on Monday, 20 Mar 2017 4:32 pm

We will miss you.

I will visit you here sometimes

It's just not real or relevant

But how did we all live before? And now no one would die, but I don't want to leave either

Greetings, all of you, I look at your messages at work, I can't answer, sorry. I also want to bury myself with my head ... for example, in the dacha ... I'm tired of fighting like Don Quixote, pray tomorrow for my service, maybe we'll swim out.
Bread brewed och. my mother also liked at work, even the former bakers. Thanks for the recipe and ideas.

[Natalia]

NataliaBefore, we definitely lived better, talked, were friends, wrote letters on paper ... people were kinder, got along fine without an Internet and without other modern adaptations ... Oh But what can you do ... progress

[Natalia]

NataliaBefore, we definitely lived better, talked, made friends, wrote letters on paper ... people were kinder, got along fine without an Internet and other modern adaptations ... Oh But what can you do ... progress

Yes, my mother bought packs of postcards for the holidays and wrote to everyone, and waited for answers ... Grandma pasted all the postcards from us on the wall ... with a carpet.

[Nika]

Nika, Yes it was ...

I want it very much, somehow again,
To visit in the eighties.
So that the soda machine
Would stand at the bus stop.
For 10 kopecks - a movie,
And in the yard so - grandfathers in dominoes.
So that "popsicle" - ice cream,
To "potato" - a cake!
To have a fresh issue of "Murzilka" in your hands,
To a penny in a spring piggy bank.
So that on TV - "Wait a minute!"
So that Gaidar, as always, is ahead!
So that there are postage stamps in the album,
So that on Sunday - with mom in the park,
So that the soldiers are red.
So that it never ends.
To fall asleep, again and again
A new series of Stirlitz is to be expected.
So that "Pinocchio" in a glass bottle.
So that chewing gum on the market for a ruble.
So that the models stand on the shelf,
And so that candy wrappers collect everything,
So that on the parade - balls to the height
So that, in short, all hurt yourself!
No, damn it, everything will be the other way around:
Cool car, boss is a freak ...
The glorious time ended long ago.
We will only see him in an old movie!
.

[WLAD]

WLAD, time, people were different, no matter how they scolded, but it was safer and more protected, it was possible to get housing, vouchers ... oh, I could not imagine in a nightmare ...! okay, otherwise they'll screw it up for chatting

Question to the owners of 2502, Should the stove give any other signals in the process besides the end of baking? I did not find anything in the instructions for this
Reading tips and tricks on the forum, I came across several times: add on signal, fall asleep on signal... and she is silent like a partisan Only quietly squeaks when bread is already available

[Dark steppe eagle]

Dark steppe eagle, Vlad, this is for those who have WITHOUT a dispenser.
The stove is beeping for raisins ...
And for you she does everything herself!)))

Added on Tuesday 21 Mar 2017 08:12

Everything is ok with your oven! She should not squeak.

[Margarita]

MargaritaThank you very much, that's what it turns out to be ... and I'm sitting wondering ... here she is clever

talked, made friends, wrote letters on paper ...

And now the researchers are studying, like, the letters of Dostoevsky to Turgenev (with a request to borrow money for roulette).
But don't worry! According to the Yarovaya law, everything is now preserved from us too. Then we will study our joint fantasies on the subject of leaven.

Ay, guys, I lived under three regimes. He defended everyone in the forests! Please, please don’t hurt your wounds!
And then I'll tell you this. that I will be banned again! Let's on the topic, eh !!!?
Pyonerov they wanted ... Gee ..!

[fffuntic]

What kind of towel do you cover hot bread? I cover with a linen towel and until I stuff the bread into the cellophane, the crusts are all crispy except the top. And if you cover it with terry, it seems like there will be soft crusts.

I covered it with a thin waffle towel or did not cover it at all, there is no humidity in the house, on the contrary, even everything dries quickly
I tried to bake as I was advised, setting a larger size of bread, the result is the same yesterday - the crust is soft
I have only one way - this is to wait for the bread to dry on the table, only this is already a biscuit, and not a crust

Added Wednesday 22 Mar 2017 05:25

fffuntic, I do everything as written (I leave it without a towel, I keep it cut down), it does not help
The most interesting thing is that the first 2-3 loaves of bread were super crispy, it was so long ago, and my husband suggested yesterday that he then took flour in another store, can crunch depend on flour?

[Yulchitai]

YulchitaiI subscribe to the above

I suffer with yeast-free starter cultures

There are no such things in nature, bread without yeast is bread on baking powder, cake, matzo, Armenian lavash, chapatis, perhaps that's all.
Sourdough is a mixture of Saccharomycetes yeast, plus lactic acid bacteria, plus the microflora that gets into the starter with flour, water and from the air. Yeast in a pack is the same Saccharomycete yeast grown in almost pure form.

[Alexander]

Alexander, you can make butter dough on kefir (with soda)...

[Alexander]

Alexander, you can make butter dough on kefir (with soda)...

this will be bread on chemical baking powder - soda. Soda bread. It has nothing to do with yeast, nor with leavens.
Sourdough bread is strictly yeast.
If we make a ferment based on kefir, then again we get a community of the same yeast, with a predominance of kefir yeast. Kefir yeast is one of the very strong strains. But along with them, in such a leaven there will still be a bunch of other strains, including in the minority and ordinary bakery. Because these friends are all over the place.

Lena, this will be butter dough (yeast-free), due to baking soda, as a baking powder (when baking, it releases carbon dioxide when heated).

[unleavened]

Butter unleavened on soda. A huge difference with butter yeast

.....
The most interesting thing is that the first 2-3 loaves of bread were super crispy, it was so long ago, and my husband suggested yesterday that he then took flour in another store, can crunch depend on flour?

what does the crust of bread depend on?
its thickness and delicacy strictly depend on the degree of gluten mixing and slightly less on the degree of bread fermentation.

The stronger the gluten is mixed, the more elastic it is, the thinner the crust can be and the more delicate it is to bite.
But its crispness mainly depends on the baking conditions. If you bake in a dry oven with a high heat, then this leads to severe dehydration of the crust and we get a crunch. To do this, the pieces are left to dry on the table, or even sprinkled with flour before baking in the oven. When they want to get a softer crust, on the contrary, they try to bake in a humid chamber with steam. And they do not allow the surface of the workpieces to air.

In CP, the frying of the crust is mainly influenced by the high degree of heating of the chamber and the longer baking time, then the degree of tightness of the CP - and the heat should be and the excess steam should go away, and then the moisture of the bread - the drier, the better it will dry, and even better the dryness of the surface blanks.

The French program should have the highest heat and the longest baking time. Therefore, it is not recommended to bake baked goods on it - it will burn.

Whether flour could affect the degree of frying of the crust, it seems to me fundamentally not, but if it was stronger than the current one, then the degree of kneading of the bread was lower and the crust turned out to be coarser and thicker.

If you knead the bread dry, with stronger flour, that is, we get a less kneaded and dry bun, then we get bread with thicker coarse crusts. This can be mistaken for a crunchier option.

Directly in HP we have a humid chamber and usually well-kneaded bread, imitation of baking in a cold oven with steam.
Objectively speaking, no, the crunch dependence on flour will be minimal. For crunching, you need to increase the heat and baking time in the HP.
And if this cannot be done, then knead the extremely dry kolobok.
You can perverted before baking, dry the workpiece, sprinkle it with flour - but this is generally tin.

What is technically worth seeing directly in HP. Make a heat test for tendencies with a thermometer from the service manual.
Perhaps the oven does not bake. Second, check if you have any heat leaks from above. Maybe the cover is skewed?
Check voltage. Perhaps the stove is not getting heat.
Disconnect from the network after work to avoid glitches. In general, first properly investigate for technical serviceability.
To avoid crusting in Panasonic is nonsense.

Well, dances with tambourines, which are used with longing. Knead an extremely dry kolobok. I mean the maximum allowable, at the same time that the bread before baking itself turns out to be flush with the edges of the bucket. So that most of the walls are in contact with the hot bucket, and there is more heat on top.

[Natalia]

NataliaWhere did I write that this is a rich yeast dough?
fffuntic, Mlyn I think, I’m not so dull-here’s from Wikipedia:
Cooking Soda for food, culinary
The main use of baking soda is in cooking, where it is used mainly as a main or additional baking powder in baking (as it emits carbon dioxide when heated), alone or as part of complex baking powder (for example, baking powder, together with ammonium carbonate) and in ready-made mixtures for baking (muffins, cakes, etc.). When using soda in its pure form, it is important to observe the correct dosage, as it leaves not tasteless sodium carbonate in the product. The order of kneading for the dough: soda - into flour, acidic components (vinegar, kefir, etc.) - into liquid.

I want to say that, strictly speaking, yeast-free and yeast-free dough have profound differences not only because of the different method of opening.
Butter or non-nutritious, whatever you like, yeast-free on baking powder of any type - what they put in, they heated it up and there the baking powder decomposed with the release of gas - everything was baked - ate.
And yeast is completely different. What they put in has changed, transformed with the formation - synthesis - of fundamentally different acids and substances, and loosening there is only a side effect of yeast respiration. That is, in yeast bread, magic reactions of transformation and the appearance of new properties in bread take place, while in yeast-free bread there is no magic. What they put in - they got it.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, I agree with this

Added Wednesday 22 Mar 2017 04:22 PM

went to bake butter without yeast ...

But generally, Alexander tried to convey to everyone that there is no mythical "yeast-free" sourdough. That the leaven is the same yeast that we buy in the store + their other brethren are required.
And he did not try to eat soda and other breads there

I am also amused by the search for "yeast-free" starters and scarecrows on the topic that horror-horror-horror yeast survives after baking.
So they do not die in the leaven, but for some reason everyone is so sure of the opposite.
At the same time, for some reason, no one discusses the fact that, if not properly administered, putrefactive harmful substances, more terrible than industrial yeast, can accumulate in the leaven. And that bad leaven is far from safe.

Natalya, where did I write that this is a rich yeast dough?

Nikusha, you haven't written anywhere. Maybe I blurted out inappropriately, from my scanty knowledge, that butter can be both fresh and yeast.

I am also amused by the search for "yeast-free" starters and scarecrows on the topic that horror-horror-horror yeast survives after baking.

Me too
At a temperature of 96-97 ° C in the center of the bread during baking (C) Prof. A. Ya. Auermann. 1942 year
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3624.0
Everyone is frightened by mythical thermophilic yeast
And yeast in bakery is banal saccharomycetes

[shortly]

Well, if you bring up the topic of yeast survival,

then yeast is ordinary living creatures, not aliens, and 99 percent die when heated above 60 degrees. Another thing is that how the strongest try to survive in war, life does not want to die, and therefore the unfortunate singed cripples with shortly exposure to high temperatures, all in burns, with reduced functions of vital activity, some of them - individual "tough nuts" units are able to stay in this world for some time, if for some reason the bread is not baked enough.
But these unfortunate cripples find themselves in an environment without water, sugar, and so on ... so on. .. That is, far from a hospital with doctors.
This is if there is bread in the air. That is, the question of their complete death is predetermined. And if you, let's say, immediately ate the unfortunate undercooked yeast, then there are also harmful substances in the stomach that will immediately kill the unfortunate.Bread yeast cannot survive in the hydrochloric acid of the stomach, these are not pathogens for you. They are normal.

To get dry yeast in the industry, dancing is very difficult to do. And still, a huge percentage of the yeast dies.
They need conditions to survive. They are alive. And not baked goods with a human stomach.
Yeast ... it's not even bacteria. They are more vulnerable. Ice water, pour boiling water over .. and die. They decided to dry it on a piece of paper at home .. half of you will be dead.

So yeast survivability is a scarecrow for a horror movie.

Here the survival rate of bacteria is much higher than yeast. It was mentioned above that sourdough bread can turn sour after baking.
But this is not because the bacteria are from another planet. They also die at high temperatures, just at shortly exposure, some of the healthiest are able to survive. But bacteria are not yeast. They don't need so many tasty substances and breath to survive.
However, if the sourdough bread is toasted properly, the bacteria will die out.

Nataliya. Don't be angry, I am stressed ...
To be honest, I am not bothered by the search for people of such a leaven, on the contrary, I consider them good fellows, and we have no right to condemn them or slow down ourselves without such generators and incarnators without a wheel and without a bulb, and ... without ... we lived.

We live without a perpetual motion machine. It would be better to switch from yeast to search for perpetummobile. And what kind of ecology to buzz!

[Nika]

I will continue a little.
It's not about the thermophilicity of bacteria and yeast, but about the way we bake our bread. As you know, the bread is ready when the temperature in the middle reaches 96-97 degrees. But, by the way, if you do not poke thermometers, then according to organoleptic indications, you can already pull out at 92-94.
What does it mean, in the middle? This means that there are already 100 on top, and 40 more in the middle.
so it turns out that in the middle of the bread the "survival island" for all living things in bread lasts the longest.
These so-called "thermophilic bacteria and yeast", these are the few unfortunate people who were lucky enough to be in the center of the bread, where the temperature rises last and for a short time, if the bread is not fried to the extremely hot middle.
Their heat scorches, but not for long. Hence the myth of the alleged thermophilicity of yeast. They did not fry it themselves, and then they came up with
But you must understand that these are wounded unfortunate survivors who will immediately die from wounds and lack of food.
Yeast is still complex creatures that need a lot for life.

Nikathat .. are the best idea generators among professionals. And ideas from people who do not understand the issue to the end give rise to myths and the invention of the wheel. And sometimes harm.
If we talk further ... then the use of poor leaven, that is, grown with violations, in under-baked bread can lead to the accumulation of harmful substances. But home-grown experimenters and advisers are not, as a rule, puzzled by such questions.

Added Wednesday 22 Mar 2017 06:15 PM

By the way ... about the baking soda and what it highlights in Wikipedia.
one could speculate. When heated, soda ceases to exist as soda. It decomposes.
Yeast, they definitely emit, nothing is done with them, and gas appears
but what the soda gives off is debatable. Although this is a play on words. But in fact, when there is carbon dioxide, there is already no soda.
Most likely it is more correct to use "stands out" rather than "highlights".

Vit, so the truth is already being said ... hge ...
Lena, nuuu ... I can argue ... sometimes the pros act in a clichéd way, in a standard way, but irrationalists who do not care about those processes can create, make discoveries ...

[fruitic]

Well, little depends on our dispute. Pros and enthusiasts alike will live
But directly in the grain business from enthusiasts without appropriate education, there are still little worth discoveries in fact. Super delicious recipes were created by the pros. The pros got it right in theory. All advanced bakers are strong in theory.
And so far, enthusiasts have only raised myths and home-grown recipes.

Added Wednesday 22 Mar 2017 7:04 PM

fruitic
I saw it. Mnu really doesn’t fit in my head, put my stove wherever, she don’t care. But suddenly yours is too delicate.

In my Panasik, too, rye bread fell through. Couldn't understand ... why? But it turned out ... everything is very simple. HP stands near the window ... it's cold for her. She wrapped it in an old, flannel, baby blanket and bakes like a pretty one.

I don't really recommend wrapping. There ventilation holes are provided for a reason, especially not to wrap up from the electronics side. But to rearrange it much warmer, maybe it makes sense. Although I would better check such a stove for leaks.

Vit, so the truth is already being said ... hge ...

[Vitaly]

Vitaly, while the first known in history (in the 12th century), a perpetual motion machine invented Bhaskara - a wheel.
Lena yes they will live and create ... and I am glad of that, I am proud of the creations of real pros, but there are still moments ..., give the same set of products, provide the same conditions and equipment .., and the result will be different for everyone. .. A pro, or rather an AU, is not only the one who has experimented many times, but who takes "one" and does not worse. I call such people "kissed by God" - people with a gift, or developed talent. People and booty check the ground sometimes more accurately than pro devices.
Yes, Len, mine is the same, if the balcony is open on the side of the bread at once, and stands on the windowsill, I turn it over while the process is going on, then everything is in order ...

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, thank you for your advice!
I will try and figure it out

[fruitic]

fruitic, Elena
in fact, the most competent, if it is impossible to increase the temperature of the ten, then it is necessary to increase the baking time. But .. if you start the program, you won't be able to increase it at the end, the oven is heated and it will not be easy to start separately additional minutes of baking.
It is necessary to cool the sensor with ice, which is also difficult.

There is another way - to interrupt the program before baking and start baking separately for a long time.

All this, of course, is not a fountain.

However, check the stove for heat. In my French regime, you can kill with bread, something is wrong with the stove.
Perhaps the temperature sensor is knocking and because of it the ten heats up below it.

Guard! Can cut it in half before it's too late, I just kneaded it, and already such a volume !!

Added Thursday, 23 Mar 2017 06:36 PM

Didn't wait ... cut it in half I bake. Can I immediately bake a second loaf in HP?

Added Thursday, 23 Mar 2017 7:17 PM

no, the second does not take after 20 minutes, it needs to cool down., but here is the first in the cut, still hot, to put in the freezer "

[Nika]

Nikawhat is your bread called? What's in it?

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, Natalyin daily, I got a Wonderful strangeness, is it really flour? Look https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=430257.0, I'm perplexed ...
Svetlana, so far I have drawn conclusions on my HP:
- with live - "raw" yeast, you need less liquid than in the recipe, a little, and with dry, more,
- Xn, does not bake right away, 2nd bread until it cools down below 50 g (?)
- The second bread turns out paler, it is necessary to increase the baking time, I think about 5 minutes ... Lena, she will come and explain more precisely.

[Nika]

Nika, my link does not open, but I know Natasha. The color of the pulp in your photo is yellow.

Opensource projects, eh .. here's to you and strictly according to the recipe, what a miracle, okay, 2 loaves will be given to my friend. The color is yellowish, the taste is delicate, without a pronounced aftertaste of salt and sugar, even, or something ..., the 2nd is lower, paler and smaller than the pores. Mine said, they say, ordinary bread. So much for your torment.
Copied, now it will open. PC freezes ... (spouse looks at something again)

[Nika]

Nika, the flour is strange, exactly. The main thing is that you can eat. The crust has a beautiful color.