Question to Admin: the bread did not work out again, what could be the reason?

[Admin]

Admin, Tatiana, hello! Please rate my kolobok and make corrections, please! Already the second pack of flour leaves, and the bread is still not perfect ((
Kenwood 450 bread maker:
kefir with milk 50:50 - 230 gr
wheat flour - about 400 gr (90% premium, 10% whole grain)
sugar - 13 gr
salt - 8 gr
dry yeast - 3 gr
sunflower oil - 1 tbsp. l

Kneading 5 min. Result:


Then program 3 (whole grain bread):
1) heating for 30 minutes
2) kneading for 30 minutes. Result:


3) lifting 45 min
4) wrinkle
5) ascent 35 min. Result:

6) workout. Result:

I wanted to climb up and fix it with handles, make a flat bun. But she didn't. For the purity of the experiment.
7) lifting 80 min.
8) baking 50 min. Result:



The stove can change the program. Maybe remove one wrinkle?

I strive to ensure that the holes are evenly distributed.

Here, for a start, I see a discrepancy in flour and liquid according to the recipe:
kefir with milk 50:50 - 230 gr
wheat flour - about 400 gr (90% premium, 10% whole grain)
sugar - 13 gr
salt - 8 gr
dry yeast - 3 gr
sunflower oil - 1 tbsp. l

It seems to be a steep dough, since there is little liquid, you would need about 280-300 ml. based on the availability of CZ flour.
But the photo shows normal loose bread in crumb. Cut it hot?

Crooked bread - the bottom of the bucket is large, and the bun is small. Here the dough spread along the bottom of the bucket, and lay where it was more convenient for him on one side, and baked. This will not happen if you match the amount of flour-dough and the area of ​​the bucket along the bottom.

The program should be Basic-Basic, for wheat bread.

In general, the bun is not bad, the bread is not bad either - what exactly does not suit you?

Tatyana, the holes are large on top, but there are almost no holes below ((
Cut it warm. minutes after 30.
My flour is very wet. That is why there is so little liquid.
Thanks for answers!

[Angelina]

Angelina, next time during kneading, fix in fact what and how much is laid, and follow the work of the x / stove, fix everything.

It was not in vain that I wrote about the inconsistency of the recipe and the bookmarks in fact. Even the crumb shows that there may be more yeast and liquid than indicated in the recipe, the crumb turned out to be loose - and according to the recipe, this should not be.

Take this as a basis The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes and then adjust slightly for flour-liquid balance.

Why does the bread turn out white?

Wow, if you deliberately try to bake this - it won't work!
The forum has a wonderful recipe

Heidi bread is the whitest bread (lappl1)

So, I still got brown, and you didn't want to, but it turned out that way ...
What kind of bread maker do you have, what kind of bread is inside, is it always the same, or just according to one recipe?

[Sasha]

Sashahow amazing But really, very white

Please write the recipe for baking.
Which bread maker?
How long have you baked and how long have you baked in this bread maker?
Show the cut of the bread, is it baked inside?

Light bread is obtained when the recipe is on water, only with salt, in the first few bakes in a new bread machine ...

[Sasha]

Sasha, next. measure the temperature once the bread is baked.
Quote:
An objective indicator of bread readiness is the temperature in the center of the crumb, which at the end of baking should be 96-97 ° C. It is recommended to measure the temperature either using a mercury glass laboratory thermometer or a portable needle thermometer.
Typically, the temperature of the center of the crumb, which characterizes the readiness of rye pan bread, should be about 96 ° C, wheat - about 97 ° C.

I took it from here
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=226966.0

I won't show it in the context - I ate it. When I make a new one, then I'll cut it and take a picture.

[Sasha]

Sasha, So how? Did you get the baked bread?
What kind of bread maker did you bake in?

[ate]

I will not show in the context - ate

Here, next time and let's talk about problems

Binaton2169 is quite normal x / stove, I tested it.

In the meantime, we study the section CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

On Binaton2169 and pitch

On Binaton2169 and pitch

Look here for my recipes and photos of bread on Binaton2169 Bread maker Binatone BM-2169 # 6

Look here my recipes and photos of bread on Binaton2169 Bread maker Binatone BM-2169 # 6

Yes, I read it. Before the oven I tried to read as much as possible on the site. Only there is little sense from this yet. Well, if I decreased or increased the amount of flour, the result was only the weight of the bread decreased or increased, but the taste and color were the same.
Yeast is a saf moment, sort of like the original.
Flour



Well, I'll bake new bread, cut it and show which one is inside.

[Sasha]

Sasha, and the topic on the HP website is on your stove? Chat with its owners. Maybe they have similar problems.

[Sasha]

Topic here
Bread maker Binatone BM-2169

Here is the whole branch
Binatone bread maker

Sasha, on which program did you bake these white breads? ?

[Sasha]

Sasha, on which program did you bake these white breads? ?

On the main course, on 1, on the first.



I baked new bread. The recipe is the same, but a little different. Here is the previous

Now new









And, as promised, bread in a cut, for those who asked to see:





I apologize that there are a lot of pictures, but maybe where it is better seen, and where it is worse.



Thanks to everyone who responded, but I think that the point is not in the specific model of the bread machine, but in some of my wrong actions. Others are fine with this bread maker. But, of course, the stars in the sky are not so located, who knows ...

Hello)
The day before yesterday I was on fire to bake bread "like in childhood", according to the Gostovsky recipe, white. Everything just seemed to be there, but I fiddled around from lunch until late at night. Where did you screw it up?
Dough:
250g premium flour
200 ml. warm water
1.4gr. dry mln. yeast sif (on the tip of a spoon)
there is NO sugar and it seemed that there was very little yeast, but so be it.
It turned out to be very thick and the author promised in the recipe that at 30 * C max will ripen in 4 hours and rise 4-5 times, at the end of the bulb ... but it was not there !!! Hours 9 for how much patience was enough, increased by three times max and on the surface there were small nostrils. at the end there was a pleasant smell of mash, but not any bursting bubbles. I blunt and covered only with a towel and a crust formed on the top, I thought it would breathe and the excess gas would come out, but it was necessary to tightly cover the food. film?
At the end of 9 hours, he mixed (the crusts were like paper), added 100 ml of water to a total volume of half a tea bed of sugar (according to the recipe, there was no malt), flour and salt (6.5 g. Tsp) 250 g and slightly kneaded. It was not recommended to knead for a long time and put the bun for fermentation. After 2 hours, it rose in two, took it out and kneaded it more intensively, and put it in a mold greased with a nonstick (fat + olia + flour) on detuning somewhere in an hour it filled up at the level of the mold (aluminum saucepan, thick-walled, 1.5 l)
Baked in e-mail. oven min 40 (at the beginning with steam (water column))
Question s.
Why did the dough go so slowly? I found almost the same recipe, where the yeast was not 1.4g. a 4 gr. and advised another pinch of sugar for quick. start. Not a typo? Time 3-4 hours.
How to properly deal with a crust on a dough.
Now I have put in a radically different liquid. What are their differences and what is better used for?

[Palych]

Palych, I will not answer all your questions, but perhaps I will clarify something.
Dough with such a flour-liquid ratio will indeed be thick, almost like dough.
Any dough, especially thick, must be covered with a bag, cling film. In 3-4 hours it will not suffocate, if you are worried, you can open the film from time to time.
Yeast, apparently, was not enough. 1.4 grams is almost half a teaspoon. It is believed that 3-4 grams of dry yeast is placed in a teaspoon (measured, cylindrical). I always came out 3 grams, on different scales.
But in general, the amount of yeast in the dough in different recipes can be very different. It depends on the desired maturation time of the dough, on whether you plan to add yeast when kneading the main dough, on the type of flour you are baking on, etc.
Sugar is also optional. In principle, yeast itself is perfectly able to break down starches in flour to simple sugars. But, of course, if you add, they will ferment faster. But they will be blown away earlier.
But I will not say about the differences between thick and liquid dough. If someone answers, I will read it with pleasure.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, now in the morning put a liquid dough.
225ml of water (all according to the recipe) + 150g of flour (it took so much to the state "for pancakes) and half a tea sif of yeast, I think 2 grams and the remaining 2g I will add to the remaining 250 grams of flour and threw a pinch of sugar .... That's another matter! !! I covered it with a cellophane, a lid and a towel and put a bath on the water in a multicooker bowl of 30 degrees. In the multipoor mode, the mass increased three times, it smells nice with alcohol, the surface is in dots, but I don't blow up bubbles .... but should? hours.
It is necessary to look and open less, but it's interesting)))
Now the dilemma is when to knead. I read that when the middle fails and rapid gas separation, but so far there is no such thing, but 4 hours have passed and almost reached a 4-fold increase in volume. Heat, hail 30-35 is definitely there.

[Palych]

but I don’t blow up bubbles .... but should I?

Palych, large bubbles should not be inflated, but to grow and become covered with dots, as you write, yes. About the readiness of the dough - it should rise to the maximum and begin to fall off.

[Palych]

Palych, you can knead. Bubbles on such a liquid dough will not puff - they will burst - just yours

surface in points

Now, if you open the lid, it can fall off from exposure to cool air. So ready. But even if it does not fall, in my opinion it does not matter. 4 hours at this temperature is enough.

Ok, otherwise I started another hour at 30 degrees. I'm going to interfere. I still don't understand the term "strong / weak" flour in a dough ... is it weak when the fermentation process goes slowly with it or vice versa faster? They recommend doing kneading if it (flour) was used weak (or strong, I did not understand). How can you tell them apart? And how do you fake it? Interfere or poke wood. spatula? And what will such a crush give in general for the quality of bread?
And yet ... I weighed 1 glass of Sovdepovsky 250 of my sifted flour, without a slide, strictly on the top .. 114g ... and they write in the "calculator for translating volumes and weights" that a glass of premium flour 130-160 grams ... these How does the data characterize flour? better means easy or what?

I still do not understand the term "strong / weak" flour in a dough

The "strength" of flour depends on the quantity and quality of the gluten (gluten) contained in the flour. Gluten is a protein that swells and "develops" when mixed. Developed gluten is the kind of threads that give the dough elasticity and ensure the retention of gases during baking. If the flour is weak, it contains less gluten and you need to help it develop. Workouts are one way to further develop gluten. In addition, when kneading, the dough is enriched with oxygen, which is beneficial for the yeast. The dough can simply be mixed with a spatula. Knead the dough with your hands, it is better to stretch and fold.
The rate of fermentation does not really depend on the strength of the flour (well, as far as I can tell).
How to find out what kind of flour you have is not an easy question. In principle, this can be judged by the protein content - the more it is, the stronger the flour. In general, on our site there are topics about flour, there you can read in more detail.
Wheat flour in Russia, types, varieties, properties,
Read about the amount of flour in a glass here.
Recalculation of the number of ingredients in the bread recipe. To help beginners.
Personally, I have 150 grams of wheat flour in a 250 ml glass - but this is not sifted with a small slide.
But in general, I do not measure with glasses - only on the scales.

I left it for another hour ... a chuika that is not ready yet, the center does not bend.
While all these subtleties with gluten and connections probably will not come into my head, so far the simplest and "on the fingers". Here's a recipe. I put 150 grams of flour into the dough and there was still 250 left for kneading with salt (maybe I'll add a drop of sazar and yeast there), but what if I divided it equally, that is, put not 150, but 200 flour in the dough, well, it became a little viscous dough, and the time of its readiness will increase? Logically, yes, it will be more difficult for yeast to work, but by how much? And if all the flour?)), I read such a recipe, you don't even need to knead in it, but it is cooked all night long, a little more water, not 225 ml, but 300 ml and everything is in a plastic bag, so as not to wash the dishes. ..

[Palych]

Palych, you do not throw yourself from side to side yet. Follow the prescription. Written 3 hours dough at 30 degrees - and bake. Do - evaluate the result and make adjustments. Otherwise, without experience, the senses can deceive.
Doughs are very different. I baked bread, where the dough ripened for 12 hours at room temperature and baked bread, where the dough ripened in the refrigerator for up to three days. But in this case, a different consistency of the dough is used, a different amount of yeast is put. All this is difficult for a beginner (and even a more experienced baker) to appreciate, so at first stick to the recipes and build your own experience.

Nooo, I am a "fish" meaning by_the stars must trust the 6th sense) .... the sponge is noisy, it starts to foam more intensively, I set the "yogurt" mode, it's 40 degrees, I follow ... touched my finger, shook the biton - it doesn't fall, it means early ...
I just can't decide on the norm of the test and the form for it.
The day before yesterday I did it in thick aluminum. a saucepan-pot of 1.5 liters (measured with water), and 500g. flour ... but during the settling it somehow quickly poured under the top and in the oven climbed even higher with a big hat. I’m thinking that this is a recipe for a large mold capacity, L7 is like 1.87 liters, but I have one and a half ... now I’m doing it for 400 grams of flour, I think that it’s just ...
How to calculate in advance the capacity of the form for the amount of flour and water? Is there an approximate formula?

[wheat flour]

Personally, I have 150 grams of wheat flour in a 250 ml glass - but this is not sifted with a small slide.

This is done like this:
Whole-sifted flour is poured into the glass, we knock a little on the table with the glass so that the flour settles a bit, and cut off the excess flour along the edge with a knife. This is called under the knife. So the weight wheat flour in a glass 250 ml. will be about 150 grams.
Rye flour will pull 130 grams.

It is more convenient to pour wholemeal flour into a glass, it fits more tightly and will not "jump" out of the glass too much. And you can sift the flour later - but be sure!

Nooo, I am a "fish" meaning by_the stars must trust the 6th sense) .... the sponge is noisy, it starts to foam more intensively, I set the "yogurt" mode, it's 40 degrees, I follow ... touched my finger, shook the biton - it doesn't fall, it means early ...

Look, if your dough turns over - there will be bread with sourness. And this is not very good for wheat ..

The ratio of the volume of the mold and the weight of the dough for baking bread

The ratio of the weight of the finished bread and the amount of flour

I advise you to visit this section more often CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

Stirred the dough, poured it into a bowl of flour and salt and tried to knead ... not enough water, I had to add somewhere 30-40ml ... sticky and dense, firm to the touch. I rolled a ball and into a mold for fermentation in a multicooker tank for water. bath ("yogurt" mode 40 ° C) under a film and a lid for 2 hours ... strange, the last time the ball was soft ... something was wrong (

[Palych]

Palychhow is your dough. I'm already worried
Actually, I would not recommend proofing at this high temperature. The process goes faster, but that's bad. The taste will be simpler, flatter. The longer the fermentation, the tastier the bread (within reasonable limits, of course). Therefore, they use dough - the fermentation period is lengthened, but the dough does not stop,

I warm the stove, put a heavy frying pan with water under the bottom ... now everything will be decided ... detuning for an hour and a half, dough under the top of the mold ...

It is better to warm up an empty frying pan, and when you put the dough in the oven, pour boiling water over it. There will be a lot of steam, but not for long, which is what we need

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, so I always did, but I read a lot here for these two weeks)).
In general, everything lies under the towels already. I made a couple of photos with my mobile phone, but for now I can't imagine how to insert it ... everything is simple on social networks, I pressed a button, chose a photo from the last and ... and there is.
I set it to the maximum, on the "Pyramid" it was somewhere 260 ° evaporated half a liter and quickly put my saucepan ... after 10 minutes the cap began to turn brown, (set the timer to 15), but trukhanul so that it would not burn out, took out a frying pan with the remaining water and smeared the hat with sunblock (water / flour) and held the door ajar for half a minute so that steam would come out and set it to 200 °. I also baked for about 15-17 minutes, I was afraid that it would not burn out ... somehow the oven was too hot or the temperature sensor was lying. Yes, and turned on the convention (fan), where I read that this is better.

Hurrah! Show us some bread and a cut tomorrow, I wonder what I'll send

I can not insert either a photo or an avatar from a smartphone (((, right now I will change the browser, but something is wrong ... I cut the photo so that files of 2-3 MB would be easier ... does not want to.

# album = lastupby & cat = 0 & pid = 285180 & uid = 150626 # top_display_media

[Palych]

Palych, here are your photos

And, thanks, I understand ... I took a photo just to see the joint ... there is a crack on the side of the bread, one .. xs why. This is just about the topic. The second photo shows my "incubator" for growing up and detuning.




It's time to sharpen your knives .... Soft, warm - the knife does not cut (((
Thin crisp, taste exactly like round. bread for 26 kopecks from youth (I have been retired for half a year, I do not work), but I remember everything)
PySy: weight 503g.

[Palych]

Palych, 260 degrees is a very high temperature for baking wheat bread, and then it was lowered to 200 degrees, but convection was turned on (if convection is on, then about + 20 degrees more), i.e. the temperature was ~ 220.
With steam it's better like SvetaI, said

It is better to warm up an empty frying pan, and when you put the dough in the oven, pour boiling water over it. There will be a lot of steam, but not for long, which is what we need

And baked in what pan? Cast iron, aluminum?

[Helena]

Helena, turned on the blower after 10 minutes of steam, while reducing it to 200, opened the door, greased the hat, let out steam and heat ... and the thermostat was there like on an iron, on the wheel there are dots with numbers 200, 220, 240 and everything ... there is a margin all the way, I think there is about 260+. For some reason, I thought that the fan just lowers the temperature and distributes it more evenly throughout the chamber ... Now I will know that I was wrong.
Bread sl. bg. baked, not burned, and that's good. There are many clarifying questions, but tomorrow, in the morning, and so I'm tired today, a lot of impressions)
And for the "shape" I wrote a couple of times ... a thick aluminum alloy in my opinion, not cast iron. A kind of Soviet saucepan, like a kettle, but with a flat bottom. There, in the photo in a multicooker, you can see its top and cast handles, and you can see its projection from the shape of the bread ... 1.5 liters. We also have a big one and different curly ones with wavy sides and with a non-stick coating ... while I train "on cats")

[Palych]

Palych, very cute bread!
About baking.
In general, if there are no special instructions in the recipe, do so. Preheat the oven to 250 degrees along with a container to create steam. They put the workpiece in the oven, pour boiling water into the container. The water evaporates intensively, hot steam instantly heats up the workpiece, the yeast begins to work hard and the gases in the pores of the future bread also expand. The bread is growing right before our eyes. After 10-15 minutes, the temperature inside the bread rises so much that the yeast begins to die. Now you need to lower the temperature in the oven to 180-200, remove the steam and bake to a temperature inside the crumb of 94-96 degrees. The time will vary depending on the characteristics of the oven.
However, there are options. You bake bread in a mold, there these dances with tambourines are not so important, the walls of the mold help the bread rise. Therefore, it is enough to preheat the oven to 200 degrees, before putting it in the oven, sprinkle warm water on the workpiece and everything will be fine.
You can even put the workpiece in a slightly warm oven, turn on the heating. The bread will warm up and rise gradually. This is how all bread makers work and you get wonderful bread.

It's time to sharpen your knives .... Soft, warm - the knife does not cut (((

Palych, quit these bad habits - cut warm bread
While the bread cools down after baking, very important ripening processes take place in it. No matter how you want to cut off the warm crust, be patient for at least an hour, or better, three. Unripe bread has a crumb too soft, moist, sticky, which is perfectly visible in your photo. And all the wonderful bread flavors that you have accumulated with such diligence during the fermentation process will appear only in well-cooled, ripe bread. And sometimes even the next day will be more fragrant.
And rye breads ripen even longer - 12 hours and 2-3 days after baking they only gain taste.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, that's how you described, in science I did. Yes, I agree, the thick walls of the cauldron (even if made of aluminum) will neutralize all the "dances", but it certainly won't be worse, but you have to get used to the correct technology right away. There is also a requirement to preheat and with a "thermal damper" (stone or its equivalent). But I'm a "penny" and almost 3kW electric oven to eat, and the prices for el. grow and grow (in Ukrainian) Why did you put it to the maximum at once? Well, not so clever) While I opened it, pulled out the grate, put the bread down, put it back in, and there it got stuck in a groove, and splashed water, straightened it and ... cooled down.



To close the question of baking, I'll say ... This time I rearranged the grate almost to the very bottom, for some reason the top, the hat is baked more, but there is no way to turn off the top ten. Probably the thick walls of the mold will delay the heating process, and the hat is open and baked immediately. And I do not understand the mechanism of this convention itself, than the process with blowing is better that it gives. And in terms of baking time .... I get it short 10 + 15, maybe the sensor is lying? And how does the tempera affect the final result, what if not 200 °, but 180 and lower and extend to the recommended 30 minutes or more.

And I do not understand the mechanism of this convention itself, than the process with blowing is better that it gives.

As far as I understand, airflow is needed to distribute heat more evenly inside the oven. The thermal conductivity of the air is rather poor. The top and bottom of the oven get hotter and the temperature in the center is noticeably lower. Because of this, the top or bottom burns, but does not bake inside. The fan drives and mixes the air. The thermal sensor, logically, should be located somewhere in the walls of the oven, so when it shows that the set temperature has been reached, it is only reached at the wall. Recipes are written, it seems, with this feature in mind, therefore, in a convection oven, where the center heats up well, you need to set the temperature lower.

And in terms of baking time ... I get it short 10 + 15

Here you will have to determine everything empirically. If the bread is baked in 25 minutes, and you get a good crust, then everything is in order.
If the crust is fried, but the crumb is not baked, then you need to bake at a lower temperature. If the crumb is ready, and the crust is very pale, the baking temperature should be increased.
I never bake less than 30-40 minutes, except that small buns bake faster.

OK got it. What about the photo? I'm special. took off the most problematic place in my opinion. Side crack, it is one, not deep.
I intuitively assume that this is due to not enough time for the afterbirth. proofing. The crust instantly baked, and inside the yeast all tore it, grew, made the last jerk. In one place? Probably badly kneaded and this was the area where they stayed and they had food. In general, I write in as much detail as a blog, so that it would be easier for you, specialists, to see where and at what stage what I did wrong or wrong, work on mistakes.
I previously asked about the dough - so far there is no dialogue ((

[Palych]

Palych, from the photo you got a wonderful loaf, a small crack is not a defect at all, but a cute feature of homemade bread. The proofing time, in my opinion, was just right - the roof is beautiful, round, not torn off but not flat, the crumb is even - what else? If you don't like cracks, you can make cuts, then the bread will burst along these cuts and you get a beautiful roof pattern. More often this is practiced for hearth breads, but some even manage to bring beauty in bread makers
You baked with steam, while there is steam - the roof does not really harden, and then the rise is already over.
And in general, it seems to me that the crack is more likely the result of molding, and not kneading and proofing. How did you knead the bread and how did you put it in a head start after kneading?

There is also a requirement to preheat and with a "thermal damper" (stone or its equivalent).

This time, I rearranged the grate almost to the very bottom, for some reason, the top, the hat is baked more, and there is no way to turn off the upper ten

You know, there is also such a technique - to arrange the bread in a basket or just on the table on baking paper, and heat the form along with the oven. At the end of the proofing process, transfer the blank together with the paper to a hot pan and bake for 15 minutes under the lid, and then bake without the lid. Then steam is not needed. But it is necessary to get used to it.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, good, I do not argue, but a lot of trouble with him (((, yesterday almost the whole day, and the last one in general until late at night.
Somehow I want to unify the process, plan the actions correctly and the appropriate recipe, so that the bread would be tasty and not take much time. Probably still buy a bread maker.

There are many delicious recipes on the site, take a walk here. If I bake with dough, I choose recipes where dough ripens for 10-12 hours. Then you can start it in the evening, and the dough in the morning. And for dinner I have delicious homemade bread. And there is no feeling that I am fiddling with him all day. After all, baking for 90 percent consists of waiting, and there is not so much direct work with the dough, especially if you have some kind of kneading device.

I have several requirements for bread:
1 taste (like the ussr)
2 a thin, slightly golden side crust and darker, but a biteable top and so that during storage it does not become like cardboard
3 the crumb is plump in small pores, I do not like when there are huge holes and voids, and when it dries, it crumbles in large pieces, disintegrates, peels off the crust and even when cutting with a knife.
4.The kneading technology takes little time
5.There are no tricky additives in the recipe (malt, molasses, sourdoughs, etc.)

In general, it's understandable, just tell me, do you knead with your hands, or is there any technique?