Adventure with bread maker and scales

[Please help with advice!]

Hello!

Just yesterday a Panasonic SD-2500 bread machine appeared in the family.
Tried to bake, by prescription

I made books strictly according to the recipe, for the bread maker: Yeast: The only deviation, the water was boiled. Please help with advice! Pristav, reveal a secret?

[Sagi]

Sagi Congratulations on your bread maker! that way and here and you will succeed !!!

[*** yana ***]

*** yana *** thanks, but I studied these sections of the forum until late at night, when the bread did not work for the first time :(
Today, taking into account the mistakes, as I thought, I baked the second one, but it turned out the same.

I thought Panasonic's craftsmen would immediately point out the error, but it seems to me that it will take a long time to dig into it myself.

[Sagi]

Pristav, reveal the secret?

Sagi
I took the recipe from the instruction manual for the "Ordinary White Bread" bread maker, menu 01, size L, medium crust. The only thing was confused the order of the ingredients. Yeast, sugar, salt put on the bottom of the bucket, and sifted flour on top. Further, vegetable oil and water purified through a filter, but not boiled. I can't say anything about water. The instructions say "Use regular tap water."
What kind of flour do you use?
The yeast I have is exactly the same as in your photo.

Tried again today with new yeast. But the result is the same. Very upset.
==========================
Please help with advice!
Pristav, reveal a secret?

Sift the flour! For a better rising of the dough.

Buy flour: "Bakery Wheat, Extra Grade" - this should be written on it. Some do not write that Bakery flour - it is better not to take this flour. And always sift the flour before baking.
More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=126137.0

editing: reduction of citations, merging of two messages.

I do this when you forget to put the kneader .. I never sift the flour and everything is fine .. And I take Packmai's yeast, I like them the most and you always need to look at the expiration date

[Sagi,]

Sagi,

And which baking mode did you use, 01-Basic 4 hours or 02-Basic fast 1h 30min?
The amount of yeast must be put in depending on the selected mode: B-01 Basic, R-02 Basic fast.


reason for editing: over-quoting

I use: 01-Basic 4 hours.
I put yeast for them, 1.5 tsp.

[Sagi!]

Sagi!
Judging by the photo, the impression is that the stirrer was not put on, the bun did not get mixed up, since what was "baked" has a rectangular shape, corresponding to the shape of the bottom of the bucket. Was the kneading spatula put on the shaft at the bottom of the bucket?

I, too, 3 days ago, finally, after much thought, acquired this miracle of technology - Panasonic 2501 and am VERY happy !!!!!
I baked my first bread in the Basic mode, ordinary white bread. It turned out superbly! The second day I baked French - also without flaws. Strictly observed the order of the product placement and accurately measured the weight and volume. Sifted flour twice.

So by following the instructions that came with the stove, everything should work out.

Go for it!

Maybe someone will advise a recipe for rye bread, half with wheat flour, tested, without malt, since in our city I have not seen malt on sale anywhere.

And I would also like to try to bake Italian ciabatta zleb in the oven. On the Internet I saw only recipes for the oven.

I even kissed my stove yesterday ...

[Liana_F]

Liana_F please tell me then, at about what minute should a kolobok be obtained for me to start worrying?

And also about the mixing paddle, the paddle seems to be installed according to the instructions, otherwise it will not stand, it is free along the axis, but transmits torque.

In 10-15 minutes it will start to interfere, I will follow closely.

[Liana_F]

Liana_F please tell me then, at about what minute should a kolobok be obtained for me to start worrying?

If the kneading starts when the timer is 3-00, then in about five minutes the bun is quite understandable ... And what are you measuring flour with? scales or glass?

I measured flour with scales.

Strange, and the spatula was inserted correctly? It should hang a little on the shaft and not spin freely around the axis without turning on the engine.
Anyway, don't close the lid, watch how it gets in the way.
I didn’t follow the kolobok, I only opened the lid for a couple of seconds, curiosity forced me, so I don’t know the time of the kolobok formation.
Write how things will be.

It seems that everything should be fine ... The recipe is normal, the flour is also suitable ... It is strange that such impurities at the bottom ... maybe the scapula was not completely put on the shaft? but this also needs to be contrived ... I will worry about you ... After kneading, write down about the flour, did you stay at the bottom? ...

So many people are rooting for you in two topics that it should turn out to be five-plus ...

[lega]

Here are the first results:

Before the batch starts

After 6 minutes

lega
If the batch starts when the timer is 3-00, then in five minutes the bun is quite understandable.

that is, it does not smell like a bun
Until I added flour, I just stirred it with a spatula in the corners, for some reason it does not stir the flour in the corners

It looks like a lot of water and little flour. How many grams and ml did you put in? What was measured?
Literally, after a couple of turns of the scapula, the dough was already beginning to knead, and you have some kind of slurry, excuse me ...

Here are the first results:

that is, it does not smell like a bun
Until I added flour, I just stirred it with a spatula in the corners, for some reason it does not stir the flour in the corners

Yes ... this is strange ... the first batch lasts about ten minutes ... then it will stand for about five minutes (approximately, the exact time was not timed) and the second batch begins ... flour can still be added at the beginning of the second batch, but it is still better to adjust number of ingredients in the first batch ..
No flour left in the corners? the bun turned out?

It is so eerie / creepy there that he boldly began to add 50g each (measured by weights),
in the end I added 250g. flour, the last 50 gr. did not have time, he passed to the stage of "rise". I stirred it with a spoon, but for me it's still not enough flour.


I measured flour with scales, water with a glass from the set of seals, all according to the recipe strictly for the bread maker.

Sagi, a very thin dough, clearly not baked. Try another recipe tested by our bakers, those with the same bread maker.
Maybe the scales are lying?

yes, he has more than a proven recipe. There's a mess with the metering of ingredients.

[Sagi]

I baked my first bread according to the first recipe - the main one, the same recipe as in Sagi... 400 grams of flour, 260 ml of water. A small loaf.
It seems to me that the scales are lying ... and very much ... try to measure flour with a simple glass. I think the bread will work.

Here! water 260, not 330

Sagi cooks from 500 g of flour, and exactly 330 g of water is used for a pound of flour ...

[All the mystery is revealed!]

All the mystery is revealed! I feel like becoming a legend of the forum, like the most wooden teapot)

The Chinese scales are guilty!

Here's what they show in gr.


And I measured in other "Chinese units" (I believed the inscriptions under the scoreboard)


The difference is 2 times, that is, the flour did not add up - horror. Now I roughly figured out how much more is needed, added flour, I'm waiting for the second batch.

izvarina.dThanks for the guess!

[Sagi,]

Everything is correct. Electronic scales have several measures of measurement. You just had to choose the right one.

Sagi, do not worry, you will succeed! You and I have chosen the best stoves, and Panasonic does not let you down. Checked!

Unsubscribe how it ended ...

[Panasonic sd 2512]

Greetings! For a long time I have been watching leafing through, leafing through I did not find a solution. Bread Panasonic sd 2512 bought the 16th year. The first three months everything was fine, then the bread is good on top, and inside it, when cut, it falls off with bubbles. After cooling, the crumb has to be cut off and thrown away - raw, sticky.I gave it to the store for checking, returned with the act - the oven is normal! Panasonic rus ltd. And the stove is both underbaked and underbaked, he wanted to climb in himself, but the filling was worth it. Although once the service wrote it is working, I don’t know what else to do with it. Three months of baking according to recipes, so what could you change? Yes, nothing but naizus to learn the recipe! Before serving, I changed flour, yeast, I see no reason to change the rest, that there is salt, sugar, water was always only bottled. I bought everything at once and the scales and flour seeder. I bake the same bread.

[soft spreading dough]

What should I do.
Take a service manual and a thermometer in your hands and run all the tests with measurements there. Make sure everything is okay yourself.
And if you find an error, then you will poke the service with your nose.
If tests show that the stove is normal, then
maybe you are constantly making the wrong wet bun, which will be smeared at the end of the batch, then you will not get bread. Also, if you knead too tightly and the oven cannot knead the dough.
You may be repeating the same mistake all the time.

You should follow the entire cycle from beginning to end with your nose in the stove.
First you need to make sure that soft spreading dough only to the end the batch has turned into a delicate kolobok and always without smearing under the stirrer.
Then, in the fermentation process, climb in and make sure that it is warm and humid, that the dough rises and becomes beautiful before baking.
And then ... make sure it heats up and bakes well. Maybe your network voltage jumps and the stove reacts to this during baking, I have already fantasized about it ...
Well, let the bread cool down after baking, the hot crumb is sticky

Well ... of course, all this must be done not in accelerated modes, but in the main normal mode. It is difficult to get normal bread on the fast track.
You have to trace and find out at what stage you or the stove are wrong.

[HAMeleO]

HAMeleO, check the mains voltage again.

I write - the bread is the same, I didn’t look at the lump, I’m not a specialist in kneading, but my lump collects the stuck dough from the walls by itself, the bread form is always the same, edible, network 215v. The proportions are correct, I'm sure I haven't changed anything from the recipe of the book, but before everything was tasty and satisfying.

changed flour, yeast

Have you changed the manufacturer?

Yes, nothing but naizus to learn the recipe!

The recipe in the studio!
What was measured and how?

[HAMeleO]

I had it. It stopped after the purchase of flour from the same manufacturer, but of a different batch (batch number is indicated on the package). Suppliers buy flour in wagons and deliver it to shops. Therefore, in different stores, flour can be of the same batch. And the flour can be "sick". The same goes for yeast. By the way, Sasha, it seems you gave a link to the manual of repairmen of HP "Panasonic"? I can't find it right away. But nowhere else I could see such a phrase: "Make a control BAKING of bread on program 01". Something like this...
HAMeleO, you never know what the service wrote! They write everywhere and whatever. Let them carry out a test baking in your presence or a full claim with a promise to involve the Society for the Protection of Consumer Rights. Good luck to you!

And he did not determine the reason for the damp crumb inside the bread (in the lower third of the loaf). Stupidly changed wheat and rye flour, yeast, while the bread was baked normal. On that and calmed down.

[Vitaly]

Vitaly, Here are the links, I found Natalia, Service instructions for Panasonic bread makers

They asked for a recipe, did not take the exam: 400gr of flour, changed types, prices, sellers' prices reached up to 300r per kilo, but here it is not the price that determines your bread anyway tastier and healthier. I sifted everything from almost grain to the one that didn’t seem to be sifting (I bought a cup of the seeder right away), I also bought electronic scales right away (I generally got to know what I needed on the internet and then bought everything at once). Measuring spoon small tip full of salt, large tip full of sugar, I confess I changed a little, namely two large measures of powdered milk, butter instead of vegetable, 260 ml of bottled water, 3-4 types of yeast I don't remember the name myself, a small measure in the yeast compartment, the crust is different, the weight is low. Truncated - I squat for 4 hours 5 minutes. So for three months it was like in a fairy tale, and now the current is gnawing at the crust. I will not master the manual in English, I decided to run around the services from one to the other here first.

[HAMeleO]

HAMeleOYou will call this service first. Say whatever you think about their conclusion and request a test bake with your ingredients.
Sasha, I read in Russian! It was very exciting reading. WHERE IS THIS !!!!!!?

[HAMeleO]

HAMeleOFor 400g of flour, 260ml of water is a lot! Here is a recipe

Panasonic SD-2502. Plain white bread (Ana-stasy)

Check, for a start on it, do everything strictly according to the recipe!



Vitaly, Unfortunately, I do not remember such a sclerosis, however

[HAMeleO]

HAMeleO, as I understand it, you have always baked only on one prog. Try another one.
If you baked for three months and everything was OK - were it the summer months? It was dry and warm. Then autumn came and the flour became wetter.
Maybe this is due to the deterioration in quality?
I would try to buy proven flour (for example, Pudov) and yeast (try to activate them - sweet warm water + yeast, see how they rise). Then bake bread.

For 400g of flour, 260ml of water is a lot!

According to the recipe in the Panasonic instructions, 260 ml are scored. I also bake for 260 ml. water. And the remark on the change of summer-autumn is sensible. Flour can easily damp. And I sometimes bake with 240 ml. water. If the flour is damp, then this is noticeable when sifting through a sieve (not to be confused with a sieve). The flour then does not dive through the cells, but beats into balls.

[HAMeleO]

Guys, well, first you need to test the stove. Maybe the service was cheating. If it really does not get the temperature on baking or ferments in the cold, then the recipe will not save.
We need to deal with the tests with the google translator.
And if you are lazy, then call the master for money and let him test.
Then, you and I don't know where HAMeleO... He writes that his bun is collecting dough, which means it is not wet. But when he collects - maybe from the very beginning the bread is stupidly unmixed.
Photos of bread were not shown to us.
What if HAMeleO lives in Siberia with very moisture-consuming flour, then he, it turns out, kneads tight dough all the time.

I repeat, if you want to understand the problem, then you need to show us the kneading and baking process with pictures. Result. And then remove the video.
Then we will definitely say so or not.
And technically, the stove needs to be checked. Either by yourself, or by the master, or in the service.

Or Vit said correctly. Come with bread to the service and demand to make a control baking with it.
You can call Panasonic in advance, have a fight and demand control baked goods in order to agree exactly when to take the stove.

But there will be no miracle if you do not move yourself properly in all directions.

Please tell me that with HP-2502, on the 8th recipe ,, simple bread ,, （mom says that it also comes out on other recipes）, after standing, and at the end of the rise, the engine cranks the paddle several times. And already a beautiful top of the future the bread is crumpled, after which baking begins. Everything is baked well, but the top is not beautiful

[Igor]

IgorDuring the proving, there are 1-2 strokes to release gases and stretch the gluten. This is usually for making yeast bread. This is for the taste and texture of the bread. But what you describe from your mother's words is not entirely clear.

I would like more specific information:
1) Name programs (recipes are not numbered in the instructions)
2) The exact recipe or its exact name in the instructions (all programs have names).

With a more detailed description of the problem, it is possible to find the cause.

It is even better if there is a general view and section of the loaf.

As you wrote, I added a photo of the bread and the program, as well as a link to another photo that I could not add to the others. Also today I diagnosed HP as written in the service manual, everything spins as it should, heats up, beeps, all symbols are highlighted.

[Igoryok]

Igoryok, Thanks for the photo!

Your photos show that there is not enough water, the bun was very tight and the dough was simply not kneaded. Therefore, the bread is ALL crooked, both outside and inside there are impurities and holes.
If this happens according to all the recipes, then it is possible:
* flour is weighed incorrectly,
* water is measured incorrectly,
* moisture-consuming flour.

A bread machine needs an accurate scale to measure the flour. Liquids can be measured with the supplied glass. there are risks, but they are hard to see.Some make notes with markers at the necessary risks so as not to look every time and not make mistakes.
If you have a balance, you can also weigh the water.
300 ml of water will be 300 gr.

How does your mom measure groceries?

Accuracy of measurements is important for a bread baker, especially at the beginning, while you learn and feel the baking! And for a bread machine, the dough should be softer than for baking in the oven.

If everything is in order with the measurements, then your flour is so water-absorbing and you need to add more water.

Now I'll look for where we have about kneading in Panasonic, and add here.

We are, as it were, not newbies, KhP-ke is already 4 years old, we bake bread almost every day. Electric balances from the first day of HP, flour is always by weight, water according to the recipe, sometimes we pour a little less if the top of previous breads fails. The only What she puts on the eye is salt, sugar and grows. butter, I do not think that it strongly affects the bread, although I am for accuracy. We will experiment on different programs, without a timer, with a timer, I will take control of this matter.

[Igoryok]

Igoryok, since you have been baking for 4 years, then of course.

Then it is possible that the matter is in flour. Pour in more water. If all recipes have such a problem, then you now have a different flour. This means that in all recipes with this flour, you need to increase the water.

We come to the approximate conclusion that the bun due to lack of water turns out to be tight, and after turning before baking, due to its tightness, it does not have time to level out. It turns out something like this.

When I looked, I even stuck to look at the recipe. At first, I generally thought that you had extremely little flour. The kind of dough that has never risen and has not been kneaded. Why is he so massive?
Let's say it would be tight and crooked, but why a little one?
In my eyes, there may be several reasons there, starting with the left anguish, which you stupidly does not rise, maybe some kind of sick person, or, conversely, very strong.
View of unmixed, unmixed bread. What do you have in there?
Perhaps yeast is to blame, their work is also unsatisfactory now in the photo.

Now I would either stupidly change everything and examine the bun in the batch, so that it would be nice and soft by the end of the batch.
Or if you feel sorry for your flour and yeast, then head into the oven from the first minute of kneading. See if it's kneaded or not. The spatula should turn the dough well.
That is, kneading and again the softness of the kolobok for control. Then, while fermenting, watch the dough rise. Yeast may not work.

Hope it's about the ingredients. Can really be a very water-absorbing strong flour and you need more water and yeast.

In the French long-term mode, such a tiny little girl, something is not right at all.
And it was not the stove that stopped heating on fermentation and the bread does not rise as it should. Then you need to do a test according to the service manual.

Len, he tested it according to the service manual.

Also today I diagnosed HP as written in the service manual, everything spins as it should, heats up, beeps, all symbols are highlighted.

I am still inclined that the dough is too tight, look, there are holes in the area of ​​the mixer: during kneading, the bun was torn with a mixer, and not kneaded, and at the end these torn holes remained, after the kneading - they remained, baked - what was baked. The roof is ragged, not skewed, but ragged and knocked, that is, the kolobok was knocked and the tight dough did not straighten out after the kneading.
The size is quite normal for a tight bun made of 400 g of flour, I used to bake like that

[Natashik]

Natashik, so I do not argue.
Let his nose into the stove and look what happens there during the kneading.

Hello everyone! What ten is worth in 2512 what are its characteristics?
On the previous question, I got the opinion that water is being poured carelessly, it is necessary evenly, and they see, they are already accustomed to pouring it roughly into a heap)))

I "pour in a heap." For five years already. And what? And evenly - how is it?

Duc water interferes, what's the difference how to pour it?