Error in recipe for Panasonic SD-255?

Good time of the day!

I can't remember where I read about a mistake in the rye bread recipe for Panasonic SD-255. There are 3 recipes for rye bread in my instruction:
1) Bread "Brewed"
2) Bread on kvass
3) Bread with bran

Tell me, plz, in which of the recipes and what is the error?

I make Zavarnaya bread regularly according to the recipe from the instructions. Everything is OK in it!

a mistake in the recipe with bran - hot water. I did the custard really normal more than once, but I did not try it with kvass.

In rye with kvass from Panas
you need 350 ml of kvass.
(instead of 400 ml)
Or 375 g of wheat flour instead of 300 g (if you leave 400 ml of kvass).
These calculations can be checked according to the recommendations of Admin in the basics of baking: for rye-wheat bread for 500 g of flour - 298-323 ml of liquid.

a mistake in the recipe with bran - hot water. I did the custard really normal more than once, but I did not try it with kvass.

"Zamnogo" is how much? :-)

In rye with bran, instead of 430, it should be 330, I have a recipe for this, good bread comes out, the roof is beautiful

Aunt Besya, did you leave everything else (proportions) from the original recipe from the book, or did you add / subtract something else?

Aunt Besya, did you leave everything else (proportions) from the original recipe from the book, or did you add / subtract something else?

added panifarin 1 tbsp. spoon, agram - 1 tsp. and wort 30 ml. (keeping the total amount of liquid), sometimes I make 330 = 30 wort + 60 water + 240 dark beer Porter

Thank you, so I have this subscriberbread is temporarily unavailable. Of all your supplements, I have none. Will seek.

I made bread on kvass according to the recipe, but I deviated a little from what was written.

I removed the cumin, I don't have it and I don't like it ...
Instead of ready-made kvass, he added 400 ml of dry kvass brewed and then strained through a sieve.
And he also added 1 tbsp. l. olive oil.

Everything else is strictly according to the recipe.

In rye with bran, instead of 430, it should be 330, I have a recipe for this, good bread comes out, the roof is beautiful

And I replace this amount of water with kefir and almost at the end of the batch I pour 1 tbsp into the bun. l. vegetable oil. The most beloved rye bread in our family

In rye with kvass from Panas
you need 350 ml of kvass.
(instead of 400 ml)
Or 375 g of wheat flour instead of 300 g (if you leave 400 ml of kvass).
These calculations can be checked according to the recommendations of Admin in the basics of baking: for rye-wheat bread for 500 g of flour - 298-323 ml of liquid.

Here are my changes to "rye on kvass" from the book:
Yeast - 2 tsp
Wheat flour - 260 gr.
Rye flour - 300 gr.
Salt - 1.5 tsp.
Sugar - 1.5 tbsp. l.
Cumin - 1 tbsp. l.
Wheat bran - 4 tbsp l.
Kvass - 425 ml.

For lovers of "very" rye - I tried to increase the amount of rye flour to the ratio - rye flour - 360 gr., Wheat flour 200 gr. and, accordingly, 440 ml. kvass (rye flour requires more liquid), but such a "strong" rye ratio, in my opinion, slightly worsens the taste of bread - it becomes tougher.

And, another tip, if you add bran to a recipe in which they are not, then I recommend for every 2 tbsp. l add 10 - 15 ml. liquids.
For residents of Ukraine:

yeast - Lviv;
wheat flour - premium grade Kievmlyn,
rye flour - "Dobrodiya" peeled (luganskmlyn),
wheat bran - (luhanskmlyn),
kvass - "Drevlyansky classic" (Radomyshl)

Bread with these ingredients and in such proportions is always obtained (for almost a year now).

And I read somewhere here that rye with bran needs 320 ml of water.The bread seems to work, but it has no roof at all, and something is still wrong in it, but I don’t understand anything.

Nata, yes, everything is fine with rye, the roof is almost always flat (at least if there is a greater amount of rye flour in the recipe). Do you want to make a roof in the oven!

People, please help.
I have a bread maker for three weeks, the bread seems to be delicious, including rye. But the rye roof is often completely flat, or even collapsed. Mysteriously like this: inside there is normal tasty bread, and the roof is concave.
I baked according to Panasonic's native recipes (I tried all three), only I did not have rye bran, replaced it with wheat.
What I tried to change:
- increase the amount of bran (from 3 to 4-5 tablespoons)
- reduce the amount of water (grams by 20-30)
- decrease / increase the amount of yeast (fluctuations + -1 / 2 h. l.)
- add flour during the kneading process to form a dense lump of dough
- add water during the kneading process so that flour does not remain in the corners
- vary the grades of flour (wheat of the highest grade, second grade, ordinary rye, coarse rye)
And the result is about the same. Is this some kind of mistake or my hands are crooked? It is also scary to reduce the liquid: the dough is already pretty steep.
The photo is bad, the webcam was taken, but you can get an idea.

[In our business, it is very important to learn to feel the bread dough !!!!]

Is this some kind of mistake or my hands are crooked?

Both together

We have already written about the fact that recipes for bread makers (including Ranasonik) make mistakes!
Already wrote - take recipes from the forum - 99% of them are of high quality and proven - when choosing, pay attention to the photo of bread.

1, learn how to make a bun of bread dough, for which try again and again to carefully read the MANUAL FOR BAKING BREAD IN A HOMEMADE BREAD # with a bread recipe.

Try to take a close look at how a bun of wheat is made and looks like a bun made of wheat flour. Master Class https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49808.0
and Wheat-rye Gingerbread Man made from wheat-rye flour. Master Class https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49811.0

If you can't work with the exact recipe, try to bookmark products according to the "Flour in water" principle - it helps a lot !!!!

And work very carefully with the Baking Basics section - we will not recommend anything bad! https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=22.0

In our business, it is very important to learn to feel the bread dough !!!!

Success

[Admin]

Admin, Thank you.
But here's the thing: I read most of the links you listed. All the rest of the bread according to the recipes from the Panasonic book turns out to be very good. While the bread maker is new, while I'm interested in messing around with it, I bake almost every day, and different things. There was not a single unsuccessful wheat loaf according to Panasonic recipes, starting with the very first one. Rather, there was such a collapsed roof of bread and cheese, but there I know what was the matter, there I myself broke the recipe. And there is an error in the recipe for bread with honey, there you need to reduce the amount of water by as much as you put honey. With Internet recipes 50 to 50: sometimes excellent, sometimes average, but it is clear what needs to be fixed.
And here the bread is tasty, there are no complaints about the crumb - it is moderately dense, elastic, soft, does not stale and does not turn sour for many days (we are now eating the custard - a week ago). If not for the roof, there would be no questions at all b. You can spit on an unaesthetic roof, but something is gnawing at everything - why is everything good, and then there is a puncture? )))
To be honest, I was hoping for an expert opinion: like, "there is too much water here" or "there is not enough yeast here" - something from which one could push off. Or the fact that they finally figured out the mistake in the recipe and someone will say how much water there really should be, otherwise in this topic I saw a range from 320 to 370, it seems, milliliters.
Brewed and kvass, by the way, are still nothing. The main problem is with the bran. It is very tasty, I bake often, but something is wrong with it.

Nyctalus, well, then completely expose your recipe - what and how much and describe how and what the products were measured and how they baked and kneaded.

Let's try to figure it out.
You say you added bran - and the bran takes more liquid, and the regime is needed for them like whole grain bread.

If a sunken roof - two main reasons - a lot of yeast, a lot of liquid.
Other reasons are described in the topic Water as a dough component, see this topic as well.

And do not be offended if I repeat myself again: in any case, we follow the kneading of the dough, the COLUMN, only he will let you know what kind of dough should be.

If we talk about me, today I no longer measure and weigh products to the gram and milliliter.
The most effective way is the principle Flour into water - the best controller !!!! - many will tell you about this.

First, pour water into the dough, and then gradually add flour - as much as the dough / bun requires !!!
With this method, the flour setting may be slightly more / less against the recipe - but this will be exactly the amount of flour that is required for your dough right now !!!!!

They rightly say "you can't go into the same water twice" - we also bake different breads every day from the same products - just every day different baking conditions - from the weather outside the window to the quality of products in the dough.

Success

Yes, I am not offended, I follow the bread as much as the bread maker allows without a viewing window. That is, the first batch, especially a new recipe, is practically without closing the lids, and then I try not to meddle, so as not to create temperature fluctuations.
On wheat, this technology turns out: I put all the products according to the recipe (yeast is below, then flour, water is the last - so in the instructions, and this option seems logical to me), at the beginning of the first batch I looked how the dough was feeling, added flour, if necessary, or water - at the beginning of kneading the dough absorbs it all easily and quickly. The dough has ceased to crumble or, on the contrary, smeared on the walls - I close the lid, leave the bread maker alone until the squeak that it is time to take out the bread.
And this infection really bakes well: even if I don't follow the dough (I put it on the timer and leave), it bakes normal tasty bread. Unless sometimes a little flour in the corner does not interfere or a slightly damp bottom of the bread will make it, but this is simply not on the board, but on the wire rack you need to cool the loaf.

The problematic recipe from the instructions for the bread maker is as follows:
Dry yeast - 2 tsp
Wheat flour - 225 g
Rye flour - 200 g
Rye bran - 3 tbsp. l.
Sugar - 1.5 tbsp. l.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Powdered milk - 2 tbsp. l.
Water - 430 ml
The mode is "Rye bread", this is 3.5 hours with the temperature equalization of the products (40-60 minutes after the food is loaded and the bread maker is turned on, it simply waits for the cold food to warm up and the warm to cool down). And there is also a mixer special for rye bread - not whole, but like a comb.

I did not find rye bran, I found only wheat bran. How they differ, I do not know, but I assumed that wheat (like flour) can absorb less liquid. Therefore, I tried to put them in more - it did not help. I tried to reduce the amount of water to 400 ml - it did not help. I tried to add flour in the process of kneading - the bun is like a bun, only dense and viscous, strives to cling to the wall of the bucket in the corner and crawl upwards, so you have to peel it all the time.
Weigh the flour on a scale, sift it. I measure the water with a measuring cup that came with the kit. What is in the recipe with spoons, I measure with the measuring spoon that came with the kit. From myself I add only spices in the amount of 1-2 tbsp. l. (cumin, mustard).

[Flour]

Dry yeast - 2 tsp
Wheat flour - 225 g
Rye flour - 200 g
Rye bran - 3 tbsp. l.
Sugar - 1.5 tbsp. l.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Powdered milk - 2 tbsp. l.
Water - 430 ml

Look here:
Flour whole - 425 grams + bran = about 450 grams of dry matter
Yeast - 2 tsp For this amount of flour, only 1-1.5 tsp of yeast is put. I put, taking into account rye heavy flour and bran, 1.5 tsp of yeast.
Liquid - 430 ml. Is almost 100% water to flour.That's a lot !!!!! You need about 270-300 ml of water and adjust the rest with a bun (plus / minus flour, water).
Salt, sugar - seems to be normal.
Oil - it would be nice to add 1-2 tablespoons of vegetable oil - the bread will not be so dry.

When you began to level the kolobok with different additives, you knocked down the standards for bookmarking products, this is also not good.

Take these Standards for placing products in the dough as a basis, always compare the proposed recipe with the standards - it was checked, there were no errors:
The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1625.0

Success

Yeah, thanks a lot. So, I'll try to reduce the water even more, play with the amount of yeast and try to bake on a longer program (where there is whole grain bread). And we'll see.

Nyctalus is a bran rye recipe. At the beginning of this thread, this recipe was already discussed. Look at the answer # 6 on page 1. And be sure to listen to all the advice and recommendations of the Admin. It helps!