The simplest hop starter

In fact, he is too heavy for me in food. It is felt that in terms of nutritional value, quantity of flour, it differs significantly from store ones. But now I want something easier. Therefore, I want to find an option in which the volume of bread is preserved and the amount of flour decreases. So far, the only way out is in the use of a baking powder. I'll try to use slaked soda with lemon juice in the nearest future.

And the simplest recipe is the one I use to bake white. 15 minutes of kneading and in the oven.)))

So far, the only way out is in the use of a baking powder

Yeast.

Bakers, maybe this will clarify the interaction of yeast and baking powder a little

A reader of our blog asked a question: Can your self-rising flour be used to make yeast bread?

The chief technologist of Pudoff Group of Companies Lyudmila Kaskova answers:

Yeast and baking powder have the same purpose - to loosen baked goods, but they work in completely different ways. Yeast slowly picks up the dough; yeast dough takes time to ferment. Baking powder works immediately. And if you make a dough with yeast and flour with a baking powder, it turns out that the baking powder has worked out and interfered with the yeast. The baking powder, which is part of self-rising flour, has a negative effect on yeast, inhibits yeast cells. And lush baking, alas, will not work. The bread will be too dense.
In addition, the amazing aroma of freshly baked bread, which we all love so much, disappears in such pastries. The aroma is there, but it is poorly expressed. As for the taste - here is the same story as with the aroma - it is different from the usual.
If you really need bread, and there is no ordinary flour at hand, then you can bake bread. I baked this bread. Here's what happened.
Self-rising flour is best used not for bread, but for other baked goods - cookies, muffins, pies.

Thank you! Just wondering how then baking powder is combined with yeast / sourdough in stores. I would like to try to achieve the softness and lightness of ciabatta in the crumb. Or maybe even try it.

[Ligra]

Ligra, thanks for the information!
Yes, they write that the baking powder interferes with the yeast. But my mother used to bake pastry and always add slaked soda. The buns have always been very fluffy. An elderly pastry chef had taught her that. And if you add slaked soda to yeast dough for pancakes, dilute it with boiling water and let the dough stand for 10-15 minutes, you get a solid foam.
And I also read that it is impossible to extinguish soda, that in this case all the carbon dioxide comes out and it becomes useless. I tried to do so, but then the baking gives off a strong soda smell. All information needs to be filtered and not always applied.
aton4, I understood your problem, but decided to clarify anyway. I have already noted that rye bread is difficult for the digestive tract, it is also not the best option for bread made from white dead flour. Try baking with whole wheat flour. He, of course, will not be as lush as in the store, but useful, eliminating inflammatory processes. And so that less flour goes away, you can add whatever you want:
semolina, oat flour, pumpkin puree, carrots ...

[marika33]

marika33, live a century, learn a century and die a fool. In German cuisine there are recipes that combine yeast and baking powder - the Bee Sting Pie. Your experience with baking powder (soda) is interesting too.
aton4, maybe it's better to look at the rules of kneading and proofing, and try to do it with yeast for speed (so to speak, for fixing, the dough is not a predictable substance, under equal conditions the result may differ)

[Ligra]

Ligra, Oh, so this is not the experience of a simple pastry chef, but there are recipes such, besides, that lady was German.

Her son stayed in Russia, but her grandson left for Germany.

[Ligra]

Ligra, Oh, so this is not the experience of a simple pastry chef, but there are recipes such, besides, that lady was German.

Her son stayed in Russia, but her grandson left for Germany.

Now I just made it on whole wheat wheat and even coarse grinding. Super flour of course. But all the same, the bread turns out to be very rich, dense (not in terms of crumb without pores, etc., namely, such a serious bread). It's easier for me now to think of something. I will try to add slaked soda and have already looked at the recipes for ciabatta.

the bread is very rich, dense

It will be like that on sourdough, I think so. Unless, of course, the leaven is not rye (strong). Soft and so on can be by leaps and bounds, again it seems to me so.

already looked at the ciabatta recipes

Yes, we are on the same wavelength, namesake. I also thought about him, but ... something tells me that yeast will be needed.

Added Wednesday 30 March 2016 08:46 PM

yeast and baking powder - bee sting pie

They may be wise, but not on bread. And for a pie, the dough is completely different. (I don't know - I think so) But I often agree with you.

Added Wednesday 30 March 2016 8:55 PM

mom used to bake pastry and always add slaked soda

Butter dough is not bread dough. Maybe good for buns. But so that bread on soda (cut-out) did not hear.

I read that it is impossible to extinguish soda, that in this case all the carbon dioxide comes out and it becomes useless

Believe it or not, I understood it intuitively. You extinguish it, add the extinguished one to the dough - and where is the use? Therefore, it is often recommended to mix soda with sour (kefir, lemon, vinegar ...) in flour - to release gas into the dough. And even more often, trainees advise everyone to always mix first (release the gas, he will not ask anyone when to go out) and only then mix in the already useless chemical residues. reactions in the dough.

baked goods have a strong soda smell. All information needs to be filtered and not always applied.

YES. 100500! No wonder I respect.

you can add whatever you want:
semolina, oat flour, pumpkin puree, carrots ...

YES again!

But so that bread on soda (cut-out) did not hear.

For example, here:


Gray Soda Bread (Pizza Maker Princess 115000) (Podmosvichka)

[Marina]

Marina, You wrote that you made bread on birch sap. Can you do it on birch kvass? We got a bottle of last year's from the cellar.

Added Thursday, March 31, 2016 11:17 am

Here I read that the bread is dense, it seems to me that you do not distribute it enough. My bread is very soft. Fresh one has to be cut off at least 2-2.5 cm thick, otherwise oil cannot be smeared. But I also bake it almost all day sometimes. I do two proofings. The first hour and a half, before increasing at least one and a half times. But in the form it can stand for 6 hours, because I expect an increase of 2.5-3 times. Somehow there was no time to wait, I put it on baked goods after a 2-fold increase, it was denser. Also delicious, but ate longer)))

[Evgeniya]

Evgeniya, I also baked in sour birch sap. I believe that it will not be worse on kvass. Better than on the water anyway.

[Marina]

Marina, Thank you! I'm going to try now.

You do not dissolve it ... and I bake it almost all day sometimes. I do two proofings.

We must take note. I am always afraid to overexpose and bring it to the point of falling off.

I believe that it will not be worse on kvass. Better than on the water anyway.

Yes, on what they do not bake, so as not to waste! Whey is also sour - they bake! And praise. And water is also not the worst option. I saw in the video how a foreigner (a baker) twisted a jar of water to saturate it with oxygen for the benefit and to himself and the bacteria to rise.

[Marina]

Marina, very tasty bread turned out! I used to bake it on whey, now I will use birch sap and kvass.We have it - heaps))) I'm visiting my sister now, I bake here in a bread maker, when baking, it turns out a flat roof or waves. Although it rises with a dome on the proofer. I would have added some more flour, but my sister won't. He is afraid that he will be tight and clogged. Now soft, airy. It's easier to bake in the oven - I always have a beautiful roof there)))

[Evgeniya]

Evgeniya, I am very glad that I liked the bread on birch kvass. I baked a lot on anything, but the most airy bread is made on birch sap. He has the softest structure or what? Today we also collected birch sap, but now it started raining, it will fall into the bottles, it will turn sour very quickly.

Zhenya, how do you make kvass from birch sap? I pour into bottles, add a little sugar or honey and raisins. It makes a delicious pop.

I am always afraid to overexpose and bring it to the point of falling off.

Yesterday I had a donkey of bread, a domed roof did not work. Kneaded a thin dough and overexposed on the rise. Lush, tasty, but the roof is flat.

And water is also not the worst option.

Sergei, there will be no refined bread on hard water. Try to get birch sap, but not a store sap, but real sap and bake bread on it. Feel the difference.
By the way, how is your bread for the guests? Did you like it or not understand? Those whose taste is completely spoiled by chemical products usually do not understand. This should be taken into account and not upset.

[marika33]

marika33How exactly is it baked with natural birch sap? It is simply added instead of water in the same proportion, and the rest is as usual according to recipes?

[aton4]

aton4, yes, of course, use juice instead of water, everything else does not change in the recipe.

Did you like it or not understand?

They understood, ate, but did not feel delight. 2 rolls were accepted. I guess their stomachs didn't mind.

Added Saturday 02 Apr 2016 00:08

there will be no delicious bread with hard water. Try to get birch sap

On hard birch sap, the exquisite taste will also disappear.

[Sergei]

Sergei, birch sap is tough?
Yesterday I baked bread with fresh birch juice:

.
Very tasty.

In general, I endured for a long time))). I didn't want to write without a result. Today I can finally report.

I was looking for an easier form of bread for myself. Easier in terms of digestibility. I decided to try the ciabatta.

The first time I did it according to the recipe, I didn't take a photo. He seemed to be trying to withstand the temperature regimes of the recipe, but on my stove it was difficult. In general, it burned badly, so the parchment did not want to lag behind as it should, and in terms of consistency it was more bread than ciabatta.

The second time, with the temperature, a gentle mode was made, because there was no crust, the shape turned out as it should, but in terms of crumb softness, crust density, porosity and difficulty of assimilation it was one to one like ordinary bread. It just turned out to be very good but flat bread.
I did all these times with leaven. On a whim, of course, because it had to be added in any form, the recipe was yeast. But all the times he gave the correct proportion.

For the third time, given that the ciabatta as such stubbornly did not work out, I decided not to deviate from the video recipe that I had chosen and still make it by leaps and bounds in order to make sure that the recipe (if not deviate from it) is working.

As a result, given that I decided to bake in the form for a loaf, it turned out to be generally magical, incredibly soft (but soft not like a ciabatta), full-fledged, real, in addition completely snow-white from all sides, including the bottom of the bread, but did not resemble a ciabatta in anything at all, not in consistency , not on crumb, nor on porosity.






Then I decided to try again but without the shape of a loaf. The result is such a bread:



It seems to be already close, but there was no crunch, because I took ordinary bread as a basis, when I laid the dough at a very high temperature and let it drop to +150, 170 C. in 15-20 minutes.

In addition, in the form of a recipe according to which the pitch and the one that was kept in reserve, it was said that the dough after kneading should rise for 12-15 hours.And they talked about it as a prerequisite for ciabatta. But it was clear that it rises to its peak in just 4 hours. Then it starts to subside.

Therefore, today I decided to stand this dough for only 3-4 hours. Catch him at the peak of the rise. After lifting, he molded it, put it on a baking sheet and on a proofer for an hour and a half, after which he heated the oven to 170 C and put the oven on. In general, I have simplified completely.

But with the temperature I decided to try it all the same as according to the recipe - 50 minutes. at 170 C and 15 minutes at 220 or 250 C. Although I changed it here too. 170 - 180 С for the first 40 minutes, then turned it on to the maximum and for 10 minutes it stood at a constantly rising temperature. At its peak, when I turned off the oven, it was already at 280 C.
The bread turned out to be class. Crispy, ruddy and in consistency, although without directly huge pores, but this is a ciabatta. Next time, now I understand that it will be possible to hold it at the maximum not 10, but 15 minutes. Should not burn. It will just be even more rosy.

The quality of the photo is certainly not very good. But how did it happen.



Feels great. Soft and crispy.

In general it worked out.

Who will be interested here, copy the link and read about the hop sourdough

Who will be interested ...

It was necessary to read my links first (I posted them here twice). That is, given by me, not mine. Meaning: the article from wasabi is equivalent in meaning to the meaning of my links, but it is not written according to scientific and it is not clear from what research. In general, written as a person who decided to understand the topic. Conclusion without weighty arguments, but correct (does not differ from what I wanted to convey to those interested in my links).

PS: in order not to be unfounded, in support of wasabi and without criticism and enthusiasm: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=413702.0 (under the spoiler)
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=413702.0

Added Sunday 10 Apr 2016 09:06

here copy the link

In order for us not to suffer from copying, select the link and in the menu above the comment press Hyperlink (a ball with a piece of paper). And then everyone can read your information without copying it. ;-)

Hello everyone! Another ciabatta.




Only from the oven. I bake to size for the whole baking sheet.



On the video you can hear how it crunches. Soft. The video quality is certainly not very good.)

Added Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:45 PM

Unfortunately, the video was not attached.

Added Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:48 PM

I wonder how many months a person has been considered a beginner on the forum ... the forum actively does not skip links from new users.

how many months a person is considered a beginner on the forum

I think it is determined by the activity - the number of messages. Well, and their themes (recipes).

[aton4]

aton4, beautiful bread! The main thing is that you like it.
Active links to other resources are blocked on the forum and this does not depend on the longevity on it. Rarely does it pass Sergey_A, lucky in this regard.
wasabi, maybe someone will need your link. I am completely indifferent to what they can write about the hop sourdough. She suits me in all respects. And there is no time to read what will not be useful to me. In addition, I completely trust my ancestors, who baked bread with this leaven all their lives. I believe that those bakers who bake it and get excellent bread will not be interested either.
The recipe for the hop sourdough was exhibited at the request of the girls. I do not agitate anyone and do not force a stove on it, everyone makes a choice for himself. I am very glad that more and more bakers choose natural starter cultures and bake healthy and tasty bread.
If you have information against this leaven, then please open the topic and share your experience and impressions there.

[aton4]

aton4, Sergey, when you have a few loaves over your avatar, you will no longer be a beginner. And Ciabatta is wonderful !!!

[Leavened]

Active links to other resources are blocked on the forum

Why does the Menu have a button for entering such links? + not only I can do this, others can do it too.

how many months a person is considered a beginner on the forum

Another possible option is thanks to subscribers.

I am completely indifferent to what they can write about the hop sourdough. She suits me in all respects. And there is no time to read what will not be useful to me

That the leaven suits you is the most important thing! But the fact that information is "completely indifferent to you" is already bad. Nobody is forcing you to reconsider your beliefs. But you should always know useful information. Determining usefulness without reading or just by title is not correct. I do not convince anyone, because I gave links only for those expanding their horizons and knowledge. No more.
PS: I am still satisfied with the leaven. So all my links are for informational and educational purposes only.

Added on Tuesday 12 Apr 2016 11:00 AM

Another set of experience:

They call it Farmer's. Leavened (well, just a little bit of yeast - 1g just because it is prescribed by the recipe). Today I couldn’t make out the taste with honey. I will continue in order to finally understand what-how, so that in the middle of the night I can do it from my sleepy days.

[Sergei]

Sergei, here are the rules of the forum The chef.
You can embed videos from YouTube.

I was a moderator on one large resource, there was a ban for three active links.

I respect useful information, I learned a lot and learned a lot through the Internet, and I read a lot about sourdough, as a result, an opinion was formed that cannot be changed. Therefore, I cannot waste time studying a lesson already passed. I believe that there can be no progress in this. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my opinion.
Sergei, excellent bread, the holes are so big! And cuts - what you need!

[Sergey_A]

Sergey_A, your bread is wonderful !!! Hoped sourdough with a gram of yeast gives an interesting result! Actually, not everyone grows strong leavens, and with the correct yeast collective - composition!

great bread, the holes are so big

Are they really big? And then your bread is higher, and what holes they have is unknown. Now I will know where to go.

Hoped sourdough with a gram of yeast gives an interesting result!

The recipe is as follows. And I still don't know how to evaluate the work of the leaven. Therefore, I think that the rise is not final, since this leaven was waste - which I poured and did not throw away. Then she stood in the refrigerator. Now I keep the main one (which I feed) in the same place. Fed - and in the cold. If fed and not removed in the cold, it turns out to grow even better (as described in the last link)! And since there is enough bread for a long time, I rarely bake it. So you have to freeze the leaven. I think to make the next one on freshly fed. I'll see how she lifts. I hope for an even higher rise. The leaven was in flour-water and occasionally honey. Hops were poured in only at the "birth" of the leaven. But someday I will add it anyway, because I consider it not harmful, but medicinal. :-) And medicine often should not be taken.

[Sergey_A]

Sergey_A, Bread is super! No options!)

marika33Please tell me how many tablespoons or teaspoons of hop sourdough can replace 1 teaspoon of yeast WITHOUT a slide. Yeast is written in my recipe, I want to replace it correctly with sourdough. so as not to overdo it and not underdone. Thank you).
By the way, today I made another ciabattka, took Freken Bock's parchment. The parchment turned out to be just super!))))))))) It didn't stick at all!

made another ciabattka

Something did not take your first attempts. But this one already makes an impression and wants to take a bite. Either the photo is better, or the progress is obvious. With success!

And then your bread is higher, and what holes they have is unknown.

Sergei, I try to show all my bread in a section.
Thanks for the link! But I didn't read the article, I looked diagonally, there is absolutely no time. We already had a conversation about the refrigerator, Tatyana (Venus) puts the dough in the refrigerator and I practice this too.And the last month almost every day. We now have grandchildren of 5 and 3 years old, who are very fond of bread, but not white, but rye-wheat. I bake flat cakes in a pizza maker, put dough in the morning, knead it in the evening and put it in the refrigerator. There the dough rises, I send some of it to the pizza maker, the rest to the refrigerator. In short, the conveyor. The cake turns out to be crispy, tasty, I pour a lot of seeds on the bottom and on top too. The crumb turns out a little, but it is very porous.

Please tell me how many tablespoons or teaspoons of hop sourdough can replace 1 teaspoon of yeast

Take the starter according to the volume of the liquid, based on the basic recipe.

Either the photo is better, or the progress on the face

And the photo is better, and the progress on bread I am very happy with the success! And there was never a baker at all.

Tatiana (Venus) puts the dough in the refrigerator and I practice that too.

So now we are 3rd.

now grandchildren are 5 and 3 years old who love bread very much

As I understand them!

I am very pleased with the success! And there was never a baker at all.

I agree. Since he himself is the same.

Here's my cake:

the crust is crispy, I immediately take it out of the pizza maker. It is very convenient for me to bake in it - 15 minutes and fresh bread is ready.
and this is crumb:


fluffy as fluff.

Today I just put the dough in the refrigerator for the night. The bread is already cooling down, I'll show you in a section soon :)

[Marina]

Here is my cake

Marina, was the recipe here? Write, pliz, I also want cakes)
I will write a little about my experiment with leaven.
If anyone remembers, I got a very bitter decoction of hops, as a result of which the sourdough, if it was obtained, was very bitter and it was impossible to eat bread.

I decided to reduce the amount of hops and slightly change the cooking process.
I took 4 grams (approx. 1 table spoon) of hops per 380 ml. water. Cooked according to the recipe.
After the broth cooled down, I added 1/4 table. lies honey and left the broth to sour without flour.
After a couple of days, the process of souring the broth went, added 1/4 stack. rye flour. In the evening of the same day, the leaven seemed liquid, I added another approx. 3.5 tablespoon hw. flour.

The next day towards evening, the leaven froth a little.
A couple of days later I fed her (rye flour + honey + water, in equal proportions) and by the evening the sourdough began to grow actively (I was so happy))))
On the trail. day put her in the hall.

As a result: the leaven is not bitter, active, it raises bread dough very well.

My bread on this leaven:

🔗

I baked in a slow cooker according to this recipe:

Rye-wheat bread with sourdough and whey in a multicooker Philips HD3060 (lira3003)

My bread on this leaven:

Oh-yo !!!

[Sergei]

Yes, Sergei, I like it too
This one with malt and coriander, cut like butter, does not crumble at all, tasty, keeps well.

[Sergei]

Yes, Sergei, I like it too
This one with malt and coriander, cut like butter, does not crumble at all, tasty, keeps well.

Copied.

[RepeShock]

RepeShock, Irina, that is, it turns out that you first brought out liquid yeast with hops and honey, and then turned them into sourdough! I also do this quite often, because my railways are better removed than sourdough (I sin on flour, it seems not very high quality or on crooked handles).

Bread came out - just a lovely sight!

[Anastasia]

that is, it turns out that you first removed liquid yeast on hops and honey, and then turned it into a sourdough!

It turns out like this Anastasia, I didn't even think about it)))
My task was to make the hop sourdough not bitter.

Thank you, Nastya!

[RepeShock]

And here is my handsome after nightlife in the fridge

Added Thursday, April 14, 2016 3:29 PM

Sorry for the quality of the photo, it was taken with a phone, but I don't know the techniques of successful photography ...

Added Thursday, April 14, 2016 3:30 pm

RepeShock, and you filtered the broth before you left it to wander?

[Tatyana]

after nightlife in the fridge

Oh, I love cold fermented bread too.
Good bread, Tatyana!

the broth was filtered before it was left to ferment?

Didn't filter it.

[Venera007, Tanya]

Venera007, Tanyawhat a beautiful and nostril bread! Very lucky came out! And we are addicted to cold-fermented breads.
And how many grams and in what form did it bake?

[RepeShock]

RepeShock, Irina, thanks for your experiment. I also got a bitter leaven. I tried to do it three times and decided that the old hop was caught. Now I will try to do as you do. It's good that I didn't throw out the rest of the hops.

[Tricia]

Tricia, baked about 350 g of water ... Sourdoughs 1.5 tbsp. spoons. Everything by eye, I have a rectangular silicone mold with a height of 10-12 cm ... I do not have high forms for bread yet. I've been baking bread in the oven for two years, but I haven't bought myself a mold ...

I made the leaven 3 times.
The first 2 times it was not at all - like with bubbles, but the bread rose extremely badly even after 6-8 hours of detuning.

I read all a hundred or more pages of the topic and decided to make the leaven again with the following changes:
1. increased the amount of hops almost 2 times - a little less than 2 glasses. for 3 glasses of water.
2. boiled the broth for 45 minutes.
3. Used whole grain rye flour, freshly ground.
And of course I used only glass containers, before that I tried it in a plastic mixer bowl, and mixed it with a wooden spoon. The leaven was prepared for 2.5 days.

This leaven was a success - it rose 3 times with foam and did not run away just because I prudently chose a large jar.

The sourdough tasted a little bitter, but when used in the proportion recommended by the author - about 2 tablespoons per 330 ml, the bread does not taste bitter. The dough rises 3 times in 2 hours. The loaf is weightless.

Thank you for creating a theme about such an easy-to-clean leaven. Before that, I baked with the eternal leaven and leaven of Sarychev - with them there is much more trouble, although the rye bread turned out to be very fragrant.
Thanks again

Marinochka, dear, where's the cake recipe? So beautiful and delicious even in appearance. So I wait and hope.