Sourdough rye bread in a bread maker

I also have a clumsy roof on rye if you don't make cuts

Take note

Light, this bread does not have to be defrosted in a micron, just leave it in the HP, and then turn on the baking and that's it. If the top is cracked, it means that it was not enough for proofing, and when you put the dough in a bucket, level it with your hand, then the roof will be smoother.

Light, this bread does not have to be defrosted in a micron, just leave it in the HP, and then turn on the baking and that's it. If the top is cracked, it means that it was not enough for proofing, and when you put the dough in a bucket, level it with your hand, then the roof will be smoother.

I stewed it in a micron so that it turned out higher than 1 times, and so it happened.

Proofed for 2h30min

Hands leveled

Good afternoon everyone. I also decided to try the recipe suggested by Susley. But again the question of replacements. There is a problem with malt, I don't know where to buy it yet. Can you replace malt with dry kvass? If possible, in what proportion.
The second question is more complicated.
I baked sourdough bread several times (I dug up the recipe here on the forum). The roof collapses regularly. Can experts tell me my mistake?
Here is a recipe with technology.
- Eternal leaven 500 g.
- Serum 250 ml.
- Salt 2 tsp.
- Rye flour 300 g.
- Wheat flour c. from. 200 BC
I mixed the ingredients, lightly kneaded, put it overnight. Ambient temperature over 30 degrees. In the morning he crossed his hands for about 10 minutes. The dough is steep, it's a pity to force the stove. He took out the mixer, put the dough in a bucket, leveled the top. I waited for the dough to rise to the edge of the bucket. Turned on the "Rye" mode (Panasonic-255). Total dough aging (including the "Rye" mode for about 11 hours.)
The bread is not bad, with a good sourness. But the species is not marketable.
It would be nice to adjust this.

[Boris_M]

Boris_M, I have been baking bread for 3 years, of which sourdough bread - 1.5 years. Based on your descriptions, I make the following assumptions:
- the roof collapses when there is a lot of liquid or a lot of yeast. If you do not add yeast at all, then the matter is in the amount of liquid.

500 g of sourdough is a LOT! most recipes suggest sourdoughs from 100 to 350g. Now consider - if your starter culture is 100% (50% flour: 50% water), then water in the starter culture itself is 250 ml + whey 250 ml = 500 ml of liquid! And you have 250 g flour for this amount (in sourdough) + 500 g (rye and wheat)

- go ahead, if you initially take 500 g of sourdough, then according to the technology you have cited, you simply feed it (and you are clearly underfeeding) and after 11 hours you get 1.3 kg of overripe sourdough (and not bread dough). It would be much more expedient to knead a dough of 50-100 g of sourdough, 200 g of water and rye flour and leave for fermentation (if at 30 * then for 4-5 hours, and in the refrigerator even up to a day). And after increasing the dough by 2-2.5 times, add the remaining ingredients and bake as part of the standard program (in HP)
or
Knead all the ingredients at once (but still reduce the sourdough), form the bread and send it to the refrigerator overnight, and then take it out, warm it (about an hour) and bake it on the "baking" mode.

This is how the picture emerges. If you have any questions - do not hesitate

Kava, good afternoon. Thank you very much for your consultation. I don’t undertake to develop my own recipes yet. I'm trying to find and adapt a recipe with a minimum amount of body movements. Moreover, the recipe contains fewer probambases (panifarin, malt, etc.). I have not yet found a stable source of this good in Kharkov.
Therefore, I have a request, if it does not bother you, give your recipe and a brief technology (for dummies).
And one more limitation - in the refrigerator, unfortunately, there is no place for my experiments.

[Boris_M]

Boris_MI bake like this

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13276.0
or so
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8874.0

Tried with Susley's recipe. Deviations:
- instead of 2 grade flour - premium;
- instead of 1 tbsp. l. malt - 2 tbsp. l. dry bread kvass (where).
My leaven is "eternal", it lives with me for three months.
Kneaded in a bread maker. I put the dough out, removed the stirrer and put the dough back into the bucket. He went to work and instructed his wife to monitor the rise. The wife was waiting for 5 hours, the dough rose a little (far from doubled). The temperature in the apartment is under thirty degrees. He waved his hand and gave the command to turn on the baking. The bread turned out in the format of a building brick. But it tastes normal, much like the previous recipe. What was I doing wrong?

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Suslya stamped into her Temka Kavochka thank you for answering while I was gone.
Now, you, Boris ... are asking what is wrong? .... I answer "I don’t know" Well, I was sitting, thinking .... I often bake this bread, and it always works out for others too. I had eternal leaven for a long time, I didn’t like it, I switched to a French woman and I don’t regret it. And how does she behave in other breads? is the rise normal? and only in my problem? and how after feeding, how many times does it rise?

Yeah, yeah, it got a little colder, and many remembered about the leaven
I, too, undertake to grow a Frenchwoman the other day.

Well, in no case do I want to offend the self-leavening dough, I myself used it all summer. But ... I practically do not eat bread, and my family unanimously asked when the starter would be? They somehow sharply feel the difference in taste

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Suslya stamped into her Temka Kavochka thank you for answering while I was gone
Now, you, Boris ... are asking what is wrong? .... I answer "I don’t know" Well, I was sitting, thinking .... I often bake this bread, and it always works out for others too. I had eternal leaven for a long time, I didn’t like it, I switched to a French woman and I don’t regret it. And how does she behave in other breads? is the rise normal? and only in my problem? and how after feeding, how many times does it rise?

Wort, it's hard for me to say what kind of leaven I have: I had no others. When I feed, then in an hour and a half or two strives to jump out of the can. Complaining is a sin. When I poured in half a kilo of sourdough (the previous recipe), the dough rose twice. I'll try to bake one more time. Maybe something will change.

Yeah, try again, but what is it ... it rises 2 times, but the bread does not raise ... well, some kind of nonsense

Suslya, good afternoon. I have two more children's questions:
1 How critical is the state of the leaven when it is added to the dough? What if the leaven, say, has stood and settled? I cannot sit near the leaven. What are you doing?
2 Before baking black bread, I read a little forum and read somewhere that rye dough (but I just can't remember - pure rye or a mixture) should be allowed to stand for 10 - 12 hours. Your exposure is much slower. Please comment.
And a little off topic. I mostly hustle on the grape forum and our administrator obliged everyone to publish their name and patronymic in their profile. Everyone communicates with each other as in ordinary life. It is terribly inconvenient to use some kind of clicks. The tongue does not turn

[at the peak]

Good afternoon to you and I will answer your children
1. The leaven at the moment it enters the dough must be at the peak , that is, she has risen with a beautiful hat and is about to fall. If the leaven has stood (i.e. peroxide) in the bread, I do not let it in, I feed it in a large proportion, and then I watch it along the way, or put it into the dough or feed it in a ratio of 1: 1, 1: 2 ... since I have time and I can take my time.

2.But this is interesting ... where is such a proofing? Maybe you confused something? maybe this means the growth of the leaven .... or proofing in the cold, then, yes, it takes from 6 to 12 hours. Usually, when using a healthy, active starter culture, 1.5-2 or 2.5 hours is enough.

And finally. With us, it just so happened, everyone communicates under nicknames (not cliches), if you need a closer acquaintance, you can write in a personal or just get acquainted in the topic, for example, my name is Tatiana, you can contact me by name. Although I love my nickname and do not consider it offensive, if they call me Susley

We even have a Temka, who and how found his nickname, https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=7131.0

Thank you, Tanya for your prompt reply. No questions yet.

Once again I started looking through the topic "Eternal Leaven" and came across the same message from Admin # 28:

Well done!

Just note that without yeast in a bread maker, it is very difficult to bake rye bread even with sourdough. Not enough time for proofing. Proofing on one starter culture can take up to 10-14 hours.

Good luck!
Apparently we are talking about proofing in the refrigerator?

Oh .... Admin of course we have a respected and honored baker 🔗, she knows more ... but honestly, I keep my hand on my heart, no, I keep both of them, well, I haven't had such a long proofing ... well, never, and I bake without yeast ... maybe it's for pure rye dough this is how it should be, I bake with the addition of wheat flour, I tried to bake it entirely from rye once, I didn’t like it, it was heavy, sticking to my teeth, it’s not mine.

Can I put in 5 kopecks? It takes me no more than 2 hours to ferment pure rye bread with sourdough without yeast.

Tanya, good afternoon. This is me again, with my childish questions. Reading the baking technology, I could not understand in any way: what is the point in proving the dough in the refrigerator? Now I understand. It was invented by busy (working) people who cannot carry out a continuous cycle from preparation of sourdough to baking. Therefore, having come, say, from work, they take the dough out of the refrigerator and continue the process. If you leave the dough at room temperature, it will overcook. Doesn't overstocking dough eat well?

If you leave the dough at room temperature, it will overcook. Doesn't overstocking dough eat well?

Of course. It will ferment, it will no longer rise during baking and will look like a sole.

When saturated with oxygen (aerobic conditions), yeast actively multiplies, produces carbon dioxide (it raises the dough) and loosen the dough. Gradually, their vigorous activity slows down (the dough is standing, we do not touch it, so we do not saturate it with oxygen). There is not enough oxygen, carbon dioxide also affects them negatively (and there is already a lot of it). And the yeast goes into operation under anaerobic conditions (i.e., in the absence of oxygen). Under these conditions, they become less active, begin to ferment the dough, releasing alcohols and acid. And the longer you do not touch the dough, the more pronounced this process will be. The dough begins to acquire unpleasant side tastes: pronounced acidity and alcoholic smell, sometimes bitterness. Even if you knock out such a dough, that is, release carbon dioxide and saturate it with oxygen - its taste is already spoiled, nutrition for the yeast in the dough is of course and it is running out, the products of their vital activity oppress them, they become inactive. That is, nothing clever will come of this test.

In general, cold proofing has another more subtle meaning, in addition to slowing down the process for busy people. True, if you work with leaven. This is especially true when it comes to long-term fermentation (12 or more hours in the refrigerator. Sourdough is a number of types of wild yeast and LAB. All of them withstand different temperature conditions. Placing it in the cold for proofing, you influence the taste, because in cold-resistant species will remain in the final harvest, and the rest of the colonies will irrevocably die.

Scarecrow, thank you very much for enlightening the dark masses!

[THANK YOU]

I remind you:

To leave a trail of gratitude on the forum, let's do the following:

In a related topic, you write a word to a colleague THANK YOU, comment on what you are grateful for - after all, it's nice to know for what gratitude - immediately press the button GIVE THANKS under his / her avatar and add another point (plus) to your colleague in gratitude! I draw your attention to the fact that after each word THANK YOU you also need to press the button THANK.

ALL!!!!
Now your gratitude will forever remain in the collection of the author-colleague on the forum.
If you wish, you can always go to the user's profile and see all the THANKS and read the commentary on them.

Tanya, with gratitude I understood everything. I will strictly follow your instructions.
And along the way, one small question. Is malt a flavoring ingredient or a component in the biochemical processes of dough maturation? I haven’t come across such a characteristic on the forum yet. Or maybe both?

Can you answer while Tanya is not?
Malt affects the color and taste of bread, and whether it affects the biochemical processes of bread maturation is undoubtedly the same as any ingredients that are put into the dough.
But exactly how technologists of the grain industry probably know.

Thank you girls for helping me out, otherwise I'm now a first-grader of time to spare.
About malt I would like to add that it is a flour improver, promotes better water absorption and provides good elasticity of the dough, improves the structure of the crumb of bread, forms soluble substances that enhance fermentation, and lengthens the shelf life of the finished product.

The fight continues!
All the same Susley recipe. Here's the problem. In the evening, I kneaded the dough (about 15 minutes) and put it in the refrigerator, since there was no time for the oven. In the morning I took it out, put it on for another 10 minutes, just in case, and began to warm it up. There is no electric oven, he warmed it in a saucepan with hot water (naturally, through a rag so as not to cook the local animals). And here is the actual problem. I have a PANASONIK-255 with a tough baking program. On rye bread the time is 3.30. The aging test will be 2, 30 hours. ... It turns out, I just need to hold the dough for the right time (T preliminary) so that Tpre-+ 2.30 hours will give the dough the opportunity to go to the full extent. I haven't guessed this preliminary yet. Apparently, I cannot do without a cold storage device, I will not have time in one cycle, work interferes. The dough from the refrigerator is very cold, you need to warm it up! It turned out the same building brick. but with a convex roof. The roof even cracked.
To determine the heating of the dough after the refrigerator empirically, or are there any criteria? Can I wait for the dough to rise and only then turn on the "Rye Bread" program?

Girls, and this is my bread, I have baked it many times, both in a bread machine and in the oven, but the lid is not convex, but the deliciousness is extraordinary! I am going to bake mainly in a bread maker, because I do not have enough time: I leave for work very early, and in the evening at home ... Six people in a small hole! Yes, to be honest, we did not feel the difference - both are delicious. I bake according to Vicki's recipe, everything is great, you just need to increase the loaf, eat it in a moment. How to do it, easy to count? Girls, why my photo is not very large, I, of course, am glad that at least it worked out, I suffered, but still?

Boris, if the proofing was in the refrigerator, then you don't need to knead, bake it right away. I bake in the oven, then when I take out the dough, it heats up on the table as long as the oven heats up. In your case, since the proofing was in a bucket, you can hold it for an hour ... I don't know how Teflon will behave after a cold ...

Irusya, yes, if you need a larger loaf, just count the number of products. And the photo is not big, you probably reduced the pixels, leave it as it is, 640.

I contrived and baked bread in one cycle, as written in the recipe. The result is consistently the same, such a weak consolation. It remains only to assume that I have some kind of lazy yeast strain. They don't want to work quickly. I will increase the proofing time and the amount of leaven.

I remembered one more thing, but I don't know how to supplement my message. I make the starter culture not with water, but with whey. It does not matter?

Well, in general, feeding the sourdough with whey is a departure from the technology, there may be a bias in the composition of bacteria. It is better to add whey to the dough instead of water.

Tanya, I can’t understand why it’s impossible to pour whey into the leaven, but into the dough? After all, the processes are the same there? Only on a different scale.
I read my next harassment and decided that it was time and honor to know. Thanks for attention.

[Boris_M]

Boris_M

I'm not Tanya, but I will fit in a little.

If you pour whey into a bread dough, then nothing bad will happen. The dough is the final result, which in a few hours ends with baking and the death of all bacteria living there.

Leaven is a long-liver. And whey bacteria (fermented milk), which you will constantly add there forcibly, will live and live there and others will survive. With natural maturation in the microflora of the starter culture, a rather unique "parity", balance, balance between different colonies of fermented milk and yeast microorganisms is established. You just break it. The leaven is not subject to heat treatment, so you will greatly distort its microflora by artificially adding live and joyful lactic acid bacteria to it.

Well, I'll tell you too, although Chuchelka has already explained everything.
Boris, if you have read the topic "Sourdough" (and you have read it, I know), you have noticed that the growth cycle goes through certain stages, usually 3 days. Every day is devoted to the growth of certain colonies of bacteria and at the end we have, so to speak, a symbiosis, a family of wild yeasts and lactic acid bacteria.
So, if you feed the starter culture not with water, but with whey, then you get a bacterial imbalance, you started to grow "Eternal", and now, after feeding with whey, I don't know what you have there ... and how this "something" will behave in bread and what the result will be, God alone knows that.
Therefore, I say, there is no need to deviate from technology, we feed with water + flour, and whey into the dough. And as Chuchelka said, bread is an isolated case, but constant feeding is already a distortion.

Please tell a newbie what is wrong with me .. 2a times I made bread according to your recipe and all the time my roof falls through the first time it was completely flat, and the second time it was already bent inward. I have rye sourdough 1 to 1 .. the only thing, her young second week went only ..

Please tell a newbie what is wrong with me .. 2a times I made bread according to your recipe and all the time my "roof falls through" the first time it was completely flat, and the second time it was already bent inward. I have rye sourdough 1 to 1 .. the only thing, her young second week went only ..

Try to reduce the amount of liquid a little. Usually it is overkill and leads to the "failure" of the roof. Alternatively, add liquid ingredients as directed, but add a little flour.

hello, Suslya.

Forgive me for altering your recipe and even pinned it for advice!
replacements:
200 ml. potato broth instead of whey,
250 gr. peeled rye flour and 50 gr. wheat premium
+ 1 tbsp. l. honey.
baked in the oven for 200 C for 1 hour.

this is my first rye bread. the crumb is sticky after baking. baked already 2 times, it seems that there should not be undercooking ...
my leaven is still young, of course - it's only a week old. but she shouldn't have influenced it, right? the bread rose only a centimeter, but the holes were visible to the eye.
too much potato broth for rye flour can have such an effect on the crumb?
If you try your recipe on rye wallpaper, will everything be really bad?

[AND]

too much potato broth for rye flour can have such an effect on the crumb?

While Susli is gone, can I fit in here?
Too much potato broth may have such an effect on the crumb. AND rye flour.
Return 100 gr. wheat flour to 200 gr. rye!!! There is no gluten in rye flour, it does not have enough wheat flour to rise. And a young starter culture, it would be sour, whey for example.

[AND]

Too much potato broth may have such an effect on the crumb. AND rye flour.
Return 100 gr. wheat flour to 200 gr. rye!!! There is no gluten in rye flour, it does not have enough wheat flour to rise. And a young starter culture, it would be sour, whey for example.

They will bring me 1st grade flour today and will definitely return it.
I don’t have whey and I don’t expect it, I don’t make cottage cheese. what alternative could there be for this recipe? kefir, sour cream?
in this recipe, how should the crumb be? no stickiness at all? raisin sourdough will give sourness? (I promise not to add honey)
I bake in the oven, a cake mold with a brick.

I have no serum and I do not expect

Pay attention to the "booths" that stand on the streets of the city and sell dairy products directly from the pier. factory. In our city, two factories are engaged in this. They usually have whey in bags. Packing 1 liter, our price is 80 kopecks. I open the bag and pour it into plastic jars (from mayonnaise), stored in the freezer for a very long time. Are there really no such people in Kiev?

We sell whey in liter packs in almost all dairy stores, stalls and supermarket departments. You have to ask, they always push her into the distance in the windows

um ........ never seen in supers ..... or maybe she just did not pay attention, it will be necessary to take a closer look. unfortunately, there is no way to wander around the booths, there are no such booths nearby, and with two small children in tow you can't go anywhere.
thanks for the tip.
girls, do you need to age it on purpose or can you use it directly from the package?

Straight out of the bag, shake well.

well, there is no happiness
while baking this bread in the oven in the form of a "brick" I was happy with everything. decided not to take the process out of the bread machine and began. the roof is falling!
first time all ingredients and proportions according to the recipe - dropped. (I found the serum, thank you very much everyone!)
the second time the amount of liquid was reduced to 180 ml and again the same result. still reduce the liquid? but then there will already be a formed kolobok ...
I add a small piece of pressed yeast to the sourdough. Does rye bread generally contain too much yeast? what other options for roof fainting?

Does rye bread generally contain too much yeast? what other options for roof fainting?

Overkill happens and most often leads to roof fainting.
Have you ever tried it without yeast? Scary? What if everything works out?

The roof also faints when the proofing is too long, or when the loaf is not formed correctly.

Just look at what the leaven does:

The bread was baked in a x / oven Moulinex OW 5004,
400 g rye sourdough (two dressings)
300 ml serum
2.25 tsp fine sea salt
1.5 tbsp. l malt
300 gr seeded rye flour
150gr of 1st grade wheat flour.
The bucket with the dough stood on the balcony (t = + 10 ° С) all night

Look what people are doing !!
girls, and seeded flour is lighter than peeled flour? Here I look at the photo and am amazed. I've never seen such a roof near RYE bread ... go in search of sown flour or something ...

apparently, you still need to pull yourself together and stop adding more yeast to the dough leaven is already an adult girl and it's time to let her go
I look at the Axiom cut and I understand that in mine the holes are still too big, I will also try to reduce the liquid.
thanks for the advice!

[Suslya]

Suslya
My family missed the bread baked according to your recipe and I baked it with pleasure. Wavy ridge because of the cuts

🔗
-
🔗
The taste is delicious, the aroma is excellent! Real black sourdough bread! Thank you! Has suffered another + for the recipe!

lana7386, your bread as always, just exemplary