Kulich with Myasoedovskaya in the oven (master class)

[Anastasia]

Anastasia, and I so want to bring this recipe to mind, I just sorted out the excitement) It's good that there are those nearby who will eat my 'attempts'. I try to look for the reasons for failure both in the products and in the process, but since I bake the first year, I don’t know much, I don’t know how ... But I want to learn

I added 100 grams to the dough and then 50 grams to the dough, and earlier I added another 100 grams to the dough. The dough was with a soft backing in the middle, smeared along the bottom in the center. That year I fermented the dough on the loggia, where it is colder. I baked the first 15 minutes with steam at ~ 160. I don't know where I read about the couples in the topic. Then a little higher ~ 180. Here Luda writes about Easter cakes _
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=440842.0
So I think I can try less yeast in the dough. And without butter with some sugar, and then butter and sugar in the yeast dough?
The computer is taken away.

[AnastasiaK]

AnastasiaK, Nastya, you have a very thin dough, it shouldn't be like that. it was necessary to add flour and knead more.

[Zest]

Zest Thank you so much for the work done
Girls, I have thermonuclear yeast. At 25 in 2 hours 20 minutes "Lux" has grown. They definitely need less.
It's a pity that some of the photos do not open, but there is no need to lay out with a spoon. Maria has already written.

[Larissa]

I added 100 grams to the dough and then 50 grams to the dough, and earlier I added another 100 grams to the dough

Larissa, and for what purpose did you add flour to the dough? So is it better than adding it to the dough, seeing its consistency?
And thanks for the link, I read a lot of interesting things

[Kseny @]

Yes, spooning is liquid!
Kseny @,
How much dough did you put on the forms?
And yet, in silicone molds, the baked product turns out to be more moist than in paper ones. You can put boiling water in the oven for 10 minutes.
And yet, how much did you knead, in time?

Added on Tuesday 03 May 2016 9:05 PM

OksanaApparently, Larisa has increased the amount of flour. The comments often mention manitoba flour, this is a very strong flour. On one manitoba, I did not like it, I added it to the dough. And now I take the stronger flour for this recipe.

I took a photo of what was left. It may not be clear from the photo that it is juicy, but this is because of its airiness. It stood on the table open and did not even dry out. Without undue modesty, I will say that it was the tastiest one tasted this year.

[Scops owl]

Scops owl, you can see the pictures further, there are photos of koloboks, there is a kneading mode for bread makers.

[Loksa]

how much dough did you put on the forms?
And yet, in silicone molds, the baked product turns out to be more moist than in paper ones. You can put boiling water in the oven for 10 minutes.
And yet, how much did you knead, in time?

Loksa, Oksana, applied 1/3 of the molds, grew almost to the brim, then sprinkled them on top, turned on the oven, sprinkled cakes and the oven three more times. Was that not enough? And I kneaded for a total of 40 minutes. About the silicone it has already reached), in addition to other jambs, drying of the cakes in the oven most likely takes place ... I remembered something else, the cakes rose well at first, but towards the end of baking they dropped slightly. This is normal?

Added on Tuesday 03 May 2016 09:41 PM

It may not be clear from the photo that it is juicy, but this is because of its airiness. It stood on the table open and did not even dry out.

Volume, everything is visible, especially in comparison with mine. I would have such a result

[Zest]

Zest, thank you very much for the recipe! For the second year I have been baking this cake, this year the flour was worse (Dnipromlin), I had to add 100g to the dough (baked 2 portions), and while kneading another 250g (kneaded with handles).I added 400g and 200g of chicken fat to the oil, reduced the yeast to 100g, the dough came up for 9 hours - 7 on the loggia and 2 in the kitchen (I calculated it on purpose, I really wanted to sleep) caught a teak in a teak! And at the request of my sweet tooth, I had to add sugar - I risked 100g in the dough, and when mixing another 150g I poured it in ... A little crumbly, but very tasty
The family demands the continuation of the banquet
even agree to knead)))

[Masinen]

Masinen, Loksa, girls, perhaps, but I don’t want to experiment for the third time, I’ll do better other cakes))).

[Kseny @]

Kseny @, slightly dropped, they began to dry out. This moment is a mystery to me in biscuits - how to catch when they are baked, but still not dry! With yeast, more or less I figured it out.

Baked in paper forms and old cans (one is already 40 years old), without steam, at 170 degrees - first bottom, then up + bottom, until a dry splinter. Easter cakes are very tender, but they easily came out of the cans (I just grease them + a circle on the bottom), cooled down on a soft spinning
a couple of pieces have crumpled, but the taste has not suffered!

[Kseny @]

Kseny @, I realized that when baking cakes, many factors play a role in the result. Even if you book the same products, the result will be different. I covered the top of the cakes twice with wet paper. Raisins and cranberries were not doused in flour - they were slightly damp. I am satisfied with the result, the only thing I would like to do more. Will try again this week. Good luck to you and to all of us in search of * that very * cake

[Anastasia]

Anastasia, and you will give up well, I do not know, is he really you? Do you add ascorbic acid to flour? What flour, this year ?. With this cake, I had different adventures. But if the flour is more or less good, then in 20 minutes on the dumplings program, you get a bun !!! With 500 grams of flour is important! 2/3 do not have time to knead into a bun. But for two programs of dumplings, the cake turns out to be too airy !!! I would train this recipe with 500 grams of flour, no more. And then she increased it.
Oksana , 1/3 in molds is ok. At the expense of water, I prefer to pour the water hot and so that it evaporates for a while, about 10 minutes. This is taking into account my oven.

[Loksa]

Loksa, flour we have something this year brings, apparently by the spring already "the wrong coat." I added panifarin, and kneaded, the kolobok is not close! Semolina. And gluten is quite weak in flour, they even tear it apart. I have always made bread with bran, but now the gluten breaks in the proofing, if only pure white flour withstands. And here, in Myasoedovsky, all the baked goods are in the dough, the flour has nowhere to develop gluten, it immediately gets into a difficult environment. That is why I want to try the classic Easter cake, when gluten develops first, and then the ration is added, I will see how the flour behaves. I bought flour from different manufacturers, I'll see the result.

[Nastya,]

Nastya, I am now adding ascorbic acid. The flour is always different, but I have it in a dry place, I'm worried so that it doesn't dry out.
Girls, How do you knead? With your hands? I then asked in the subject why the cake is crumbling, they told me: underdomed. Maybe this is the reason?
At the expense of flour, in the comments the girls baked on "Nordic", I baked on it too, the difference in flour is immediately visible. But her price tag is not humane!

[Loksa]

Loksa, kneaded for 15-20 minutes with a mixer, then took pity on him and another 35 minutes with her hands. All the same, you need to touch it, you can feel it when it is ready.

[Kseny @]

Kseny @, This moment is a mystery to me in biscuits - how to catch when baked, but not yet dry!

Biscuits.

1. As a tasty smell went - immediately follow and check. Until it smells, it means damp, not hardened, you cannot open the oven or slow cooker yet. Or be guided by the time indicated in the recipe for not opening the door.
But once the smell has matured, you can completely open and check. But open carefully and not very wide and for a long time so that there is no strong and long temperature drop. Well, do not shake the form.
If you are careful, then it is quite possible and necessary to check. As often as possible, so as not to miss the moment of readiness: dryness on a stick.
2.We look at the side walls, especially in multicooker you can see it. As they are out of shape and look springy-ready, the countdown begins for seconds until ready
In the oven, a still golden color appears and the appearance of the finished biscuit.
In multicooker, do not wait for the sides of the biscuit to darken. There it is superfluous. Light detachment from the mold is quite enough.
In this regard, the side walls of the biscuit mold are usually not greased, only the bottom.
This apparent springiness of the sides and core is the first sign of readiness. You can press gently with your finger - it should resist, spring.
3. Final check with a wooden toothpick, poke - must be dry. I sometimes poke from sushi)).
4. As the side walls strongly begin to change color and move dry from the form - shrinkage has already begun.

Added on Tuesday 03 May 2016 10:56 pm

a little about the recipe

Girls, be sure to pay attention to the first batch of Raisins in the subject, which is before adding eggs and butter. Photo at point 6. Pre-dough without fat, only flour, milk, yeast?
Do you see the photo there?
It is important to knead this first dough well. If you have dry dough, then add proteins (proteins strengthen gluten, they can be added immediately, even useful). You can use a trick: knead and leave for 30-40 minutes to swell the gluten, and then knead. Goal: Before adding fats and sugar, it is good to develop and knead the gluten for the future crumb.
Pay attention to how soft the dough is in the photo. There will be a lack of moisture - get crumbling.
See how the dough in the photo detaches from the mold and collects on the hook.
But don't mix. It got loose from the walls and became a single mass, enough.
It is possible before kneading pinch of ascorbic acid add and mix milk with whey to improve gluten endurance before kneading thoroughly. Well, take care to knead a lot not hot dough. And then if you begin to knead 30 degrees, it will not withstand such violence.
Zest in the photo shows an intensive kneading in the car.
Such kneading is not done on hot dough. Girls, dough cooling is important. The weaker the flour, the weaker it is in relation to hot kneading and the easier it transfers loads without overheating.

Then stir in the proteins thoroughly. They strengthen gluten (research was conducted by Luda-Guru). Beat them only with manual kneading, since the hands are weaker than the machine.
The protein mixer will mix perfectly without pre-whipping. There will be no difference.

If, before adding fat, you pause for 10-15 minutes to rest the dough, then it will not be superfluous, but if you have time for this.
This first kneaded dough without excess fat and sugar will be the main scaffold for the baking to absorb.

Then fats, everything can be done according to the recipe, except for beating the yolks with sugar. It is necessary to whip only for manual kneading. And if in a mixer, then just mix is ​​enough. The mixer perfectly mixes and whips in the process of kneading the dough, you will not notice the difference. The only thing is to buy the finest sugar. It dissolves better in any batch. If you buy fine sugar, then you can partly in the yolks, and partly after adding butter.
In a mixer, this is all already unimportant, but to make the sugar easier to dissolve when you get the wettest dough, then add it. You won't notice the difference.
But if you do it with your hands, then everything is exactly according to the recipe. Hands don't knead as well as an appliance.
With manual kneading, beating the eggs will add oxygen to the dough, but the sugar just needs to dissolve well. You can do it according to the recipe, or you can make most of the sugar in the yolks, and the rest after kneading the butter, when the dough is at its thinnest. Sugar is dangerous in terms of its granules. It can disrupt gluten. Therefore, it is mixed with yolks or added when there is already a lot of moisture in the dough.

Further, if you will thoroughly stir in fats in turn (oil at the very end), this will also only benefit.
Try to hold the dough as instructed in the recipe so that acidity builds up. If it is ahead of time to rise - knead, not allowing the maximum rise.At the maximum rise, the tensile strength is violated and it is necessary to knead the dough, and if you knead in the process, you can prolong the kneading. The dough will withstand one or two strokes if the flour is not very weak.
But it is also impossible to allow overexposure of the dough. In fact, if you are at home and bake during the day instead of at night, and make a crumb of dough as you ferment, it won't hurt your dough.
After the fermented dough, there are also a couple of moments.
Next, you need to mix the dough according to the recipe. But be careful. If you heat your dough above 30 degrees and knead it so hot, it may also end up being too crumbly.
You can add flour to the dough and also leave for 30-40 minutes for the gluten to swell before kneading. This is a useful trick for regular flour that doesn't swell right away. The standing time depends on the flour. Nordic does not require rest at all, but for example, Nekrasovskaya, it will be very useful.
Lyuda - a guru researched the properties of our flour and found that it can take up to 3 hours for the formation of gluten, that is, before kneading. I never pause for less than 30 minutes. And you yourself decide what is best for you.

Adding fats directly to the dough and kneading into one dough will practically not make panettone out of this cake. But gentle and thorough kneading and accumulation of acidity will reduce the crumbling effect.

The fight against crumbling in this kulich consists in very good kneading to fat and thorough mixing of fats, without overheating the dough, and long-term accumulation of taste and acidity in the dough.

Try to follow the photo and timing from Zest. The dough should not be hammered.

If you omit all these subtleties, it will be very tasty, but perhaps there will be more cupcake effect.
Responsible for crumbling lack of moisture in the dough and acidity (that is, fermentation), and the state of gluten, that is, the necessary kneading. But be careful: stirring kills the gluten. If you are kneading in a mixer, then gently.
Well, there is a lot of fat in the recipe, if the flour is too weak, or you overheat, then it will not be able to absorb a lot of muffins and you will get a cake.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, agree! One thing - but: in this recipe, all the fat interferes with the dough, after fermenting the dough, the remaining flour is added and that's it. Although the processes are still going on, so far, behold: the yolks are pounded, the whites are whipped, etc., the flour swells. By the way, I want to ask everything, I even forget. We bought such large sugar - I grind it almost into powder: it turns out coarse powder. Doesn't this violate any moments ?! For my peace of mind ?!

Added Tuesday 03 May 2016 11:30 pm

Now I bake the biscuits under the lid, all the signs of baking are on top with pocketlets, when I open the lid, the biscuit makes ukhta, and moves away from the walls. And where is that magic one: just right?

Good flour is very important for baking, but its storage conditions are also important!

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, agree! One thing - but: in this recipe, all the fat interferes with the dough, after fermenting the dough, the remaining flour is added and that's it. Although the processes are still going on, so far, behold: the yolks are pounded, the whites are whipped, etc., the flour swells. By the way, I want to ask everything, I even forget. We bought such large sugar - I grind it almost into powder: it turns out coarse powder. Doesn't this violate any moments ?! For my peace of mind ?!

Not certainly in that way. It's not for nothing that I drew attention to the very first dough. First, the development of flour, milk and yeast dough until the initial development of gluten, that is, peeling off the walls of the dishes. I also put the proteins in there without any whipping.
But only in already developed the dough must be mixed with fats: yolks, butter. The most recent oil.

Sugar is better fine than powder. Because the large one dissolves worse and breaks gluten, and the powder weakly interferes somewhere. Something also related to the test framework.
The same advice is given for biscuits: fine sugar, but not powder.
And in meringues: sugar and powder are mixed there.

Better to grind larger

In general, it is necessary to clarify on the website of the Kaf-moment, maybe you can powder in a cake.But on their website, even in the panetonne, only sugar is also recommended.

Added on Tuesday 03 May 2016 11:50 pm

Do not throw your slippers, I did not repeat this cake this year. I like the softer baking, the lighter.
And here there is really too much fat at once, so all dances with tambourines only partially save. And the recipe is very demanding on flour.

biscuits

Well, until it smells delicious, I don't go anywhere. And how the smell appears immediately with a toothpick nose in the cartoon. I love multi biscuits.
There is a strict requirement of readiness - a dry toothpick. So it is necessary to catch this moment.
In my oven, I am already guided by color, in a cartoon by smell and walls.

======
There are a lot of subtleties in this cake recipe.
The first dough must be kneaded correctly, then the fats must be mixed in correctly. At the same time, the flour must withstand all this, and the fats must be of good quality, otherwise it will also turn out nonsense.
Then you have to ferment properly.
And then again knead well and not re-knead. And if you make a mistake, the crumb will suffer again.
And again the flour must endure
And it's easy to make mistakes at any stage

Yes, there is no note in the recipe for the break before fats. And for me it is airy for the second year, witchcraft is not otherwise! I like the heavier ones we can't please
I am guided by a tasty smell too

[But, with an increase in hydration, we can get more volume.]

Yes, there is no note in the recipe for the break before fats. And for me it is airy for the second year, witchcraft is not otherwise! I like the heavier ones we can't please

See point of the photo on point 6. It is just so imperceptible in Raisin, this is a dough without fats, it is not immediately obvious that it is preliminary. I only slightly changed what I suggested to put the whites into it, so that they strengthen the gluten before even adding the yolks. Unprincipled, but theoretically more useful

About a heavier test. See what an interesting remark I found on the Kaf website is not entirely in the subject, but it will be useful for understanding the reduction in the volume of the product

2) Increase the amount of water for kneading (total), depending on the quality of flour, you can bring up to 800 g per 1 kg of flour (this is total water: dough + dough). But, with an increase in hydration, we can get more volume., so you can a little reduce the dosage of yeast, say, not a full bag of SAF-MOMENT 11g per 1 kg of flour, but 2/3. (7-8g).

Judging by the remark of the technologist
Please note that the amount of yeast or the decrease in moisture can make the product "heavier". But the question is how much it is necessary to reduce this amount so that the effect occurs, and the quality does not suffer.

Yes, I remember this photo, but my dough is much drier, I don't even interfere with all the flour at this stage, it remains on the sides of the bread machine. And this is the same dough where, after adding the yolks, lumps appear, which we constantly remember. Do you think you can add whites before the yolks? Larisa did just that. I - point by point, I just don't mix all the flour. Otherwise, it's just crumbly.

[Qween]

Yes, I remember this photo, but my dough is much drier, I don't even interfere with all the flour at this stage, it remains on the sides of the bread machine. And this is the same dough where, after adding the yolks, lumps appear, which we constantly remember. Do you think you can add whites before the yolks? Larisa did just that. I - point by point, I just don't mix all the flour. Otherwise, it's just crumbly.

it is necessary to make this first dough soft and well kneaded. Add egg whites or milk if necessary (but then reduce the number of eggs). It is necessary to achieve the test as in the photo from Raisin.
Otherwise, the effect of a cake is obtained: the flour does not swell, gluten does not form, with the addition of butter we make shortbread dough. The butter envelops the flour. Cake.
And it is necessary that there is no longer a separate flour, it is necessary to develop gluten, into which the oil will then interfere.
It does not envelop the flour, but is absorbed into the threads of developed gluten.
This photo 6 is the principle for the recipe.
Since the flour is dry and there is not enough milk to make a soft dough, we will add useful proteins. And if there is not enough protein, then milk.

It is necessary to get a soft, well-kneaded dough, preliminary without fat. As in photo 6. Anyway.

Just do not add sugar to it right away.Save the yeast, give it a drop of time to activate. Sugar should be shoved at the very end, like fats.

The dough in photo 6 is the dough even before the yolks are added. It should be smooth.
Yolks are fat. And we need to develop gluten before adding yolks and butter.
I don't quite understand about the lumps. I haven't read those pages.
If the dough is soft and correct, then when adding yolks, sugar, salt, butter, I did not notice any lumps. On the contrary, it would not be liquefied to disgrace
Probably your dough was dry.

All these eggs are different in weight. 5 big or small is a big difference.
When adding proteins and yolks, you need to look at the photo of the dough at the Raisin. The result will be + or - testicle.

And if there is no desire to put proteins in the first dough, if you are in doubt and there is a desire to do it according to the recipe, then you need to add milk to the first dough.
Why? Because Zest in the commentary clarifies that the consistency of her dough is dry and thin.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...=9679.0

So the photo shows that at the beginning of kneading the dough is LIQUID. Did you knead well? I just finished my kneading - the batter turned into smooth and elastic.

So it should be - to be guided by the consistency of the dough.

The only thing that Zest allowed for bakers in HP is to make the dough a little denser, but still it is thin.

Qween

1. Yes, something like this. Makfa takes about 20 percent more water. And in general, if it is not possible to knead in the combine, then it is better to add another 100 grams of flour when kneading the dough (to the one indicated in the recipe), so as not to suffer too much with kneading enough batter. Or take away one egg and about 50 ml of milk.
I just love the slightly moist and juicy crumb in Easter cakes, that's why I do it like that.
.....
3. If the whites are not beaten to their spikes, they will thin the dough instead of "absorbing" moisture. The technology will be broken. Unfortunately, this is a sine qua non. If not to the peaks, then at least to a good density, without liquid.

I did not notice the difference when kneading in the device. But maybe there are gourmets and feel the difference
And here, pay attention:

The smell of a ripened dough really should have an alcoholic smell. During baking, it disappears and a subtle aftertaste remains, as when adding a small dose of alcohol for flavoring.

tonight managed to "watch out" the behavior of the dough. I never durl it for more than 8-9 hours. Yesterday I put it about 12 at night. At 5 in the morning, the dough had already risen to the maximum and dropped a little. I went to fill up my bed, and at the beginning of the ninth I saw that it didn’t go any lower, but it fermented and bubbled even more. Smell - like candy with liqueur and alcoholized cherries. It is on this that I usually knead the dough.

And that's important

I won't tell you because I don't know. I have never made Easter cakes in vegetable oil. Maybe someone who has experience with a similar test composition will respond?

It is not necessary to set it to 35 *, the optimum temperature for maturation of the dough is 28-29 *, everything should ripen naturally. All "spurring" of course will affect the quality of the dough and, as a result, the taste.

There is also a method of "cold" dough, I used it for bread ... the same Sitnoy. But how will he behave for Easter cake, but with your 20 * ... maybe it's better not to experiment so much once a year, but to do, as the technologists recommend, at 28-29 *? ..

Consider the moment that the dough increases in size from the initial volume by at least 4 times. So figure out if there is enough space for it in your bucket or if it should be transplanted into a larger vessel.

Good luck))

[Kseny @]

Kseny @, Oksana, beautiful. You can't bake it

[Volume]

Will try again this week. Good luck to you and to all of us in search of * that very * cake

Volume., and I will, only later)
Loksa Oksana, ledi Vera, .
fffuntic, thanks for such detailed advice. Honestly, I didn’t even know where to start working on bugs. Now I know - from the beginning
I thought about kneading ...

There are a lot of subtleties in this cake recipe.
The first dough must be kneaded correctly, then the fats must be mixed in correctly. At the same time, the flour must withstand all this, and the fats must be of good quality, otherwise it will also turn out nonsense.
Then you have to ferment properly.
And then again knead well and not re-knead. And if you make a mistake, the crumb will suffer again.
And again the flour must endure
And it's easy to make mistakes at any stage

It seems clear with the first test. With fats and sugar too. But then ... I did not know that you can knead the dough. How to understand that you need to stop, and what kind of broken dough it is? See the consistency of the author? But the bun, as in the photo, did not work for me, the dough was thinner, I was afraid to pour more flour, I hoped that a long mixture would help the gluten develop. And apparently, she kneaded ... But someone was kneading this dough for an hour and the result was normal. There are really so many nuances

[AnastasiaK]

AnastasiaK, but can I look at the sides of the cakes? What color are they?

Added Wednesday 04 May 2016 12:48 pm

Oksana, of course, I cannot say 100%, but I baked this one and four more recipes this year, all in different forms - large and small, metal and paper. So, everything that is in thinner and smaller forms, if you took it out on time, is tender and moist, and if it hesitates a little, it's already drier, crumbling here and there, although it's still insanely tasty

I have exactly the same

[ledi]

ledi, the sides are excellent, evenly ruddy (I don't like dark ones), as well as the bottom. Slightly stuck to the paper, like a biscuit. Here is the last piece)))
Real cupcake



The photo is not very artistic, but I didn't even take a photo of the cut for myself. There is nothing to brag about.

[Kseny @]

Kseny @, yes first. The dough was very tender, you couldn't take it in your hands, I put it into the molds with a spoon. I didn't even put all the flour, so as not to score.
And I baked like many in paper forms, for about thirty minutes at a temperature of 150-160, liter forms. I measured the temperature with a probe, when I took it out, it only got 80, I thought it was raw, no, everything is fine - ruddy outside, baked inside.

from a small amount of flour, the cakes can be perforated and also crumble

[ledi]

ledi, and mine are not full of holes, but like a cupcake. There is no corresponding rise in yeast holes. Although the harvest is at least 2 times less than the finished cake, that is, there is growth. I see, after all, the reason is the lack of gluten-free flour when added to butter dough, here's a cake for you.
And I always spread the dough into molds with a spoon, the forms are narrow, extended with paper, it is inconvenient to crawl with your hand, you will definitely hook the sides of the molds, and the consistency of the dough is the same as I bake every year, you cannot shape the cake dough into a bun.

[a little daub and stickiness remains]

Oksana, it is impossible to mix with the handles. It's easy in a bread maker or mixer, especially if the dough is hot.

In this question, I can only tell you how I studied this question. I piled a test dough out of flour and water and kneaded it, kneaded it and looked ... Mixed, it becomes a sticky rag.
Well, there is a feeling and understanding of what a spoiled dough is. Then it is somehow remembered and helps to continue to live
Therefore, a pinch of ascorbic acid in flour (our flour is weak and sticky, ascorbic acid will help it stick less and withstand the stress of kneading) and knead until the effect of sticking off the walls, the effect of assembling a single mass. On our flour a little daub and stickiness remains usually, it does not completely disappear, that is, to achieve cleanliness of dishes is dangerous due to overmixing, but this effect is when the porridge becomes as a whole immediately visible. It is necessary, as soon as it became like the Raisin in the photo, with one common mass that sticks away from the walls of the dishes - immediately stop.
Except how to learn from an example, nothing comes to my mind.
Make a soft "oatmeal" from flour (with ascorbic acid) and water (a little thicker than for pancakes), leave to swell for at least 30 minutes (until gluten forms, there is nothing to knead) and knead once as an experiment. It will be seen how the dough gathers in a heap, then stretches, and then again begins to stick and deteriorate.
Now you shouldn't look up to someone who stirred for an hour and everything is fine. When exactly you have a failure, luck will not make it easier for someone.
We all have different flour. If the flour is strong, bourgeois, then it is not necessary to leave it to swell, and to heat it without problems, and knead for an hour. And if the flour is ordinary from a nearby store, then you can't drive up to it without a goat.

That is, we make the first dough only to mass connectivity. Hanging on a hook.
If you knead by hand, then this is when the stickiness disappears, the sticky dough also becomes a single whole, sticks off the walls and from the hands. But initially you need to knead the dough more tightly with the handles. Hands are not a mixer, you have to knead too thin dough for more than an hour, but it is impossible to mix it with your hands.
We do not expect a complete cleaning of the dishes. Look at the sides of the bowl at the Raisin. And immediately stop if there is flour from the nearest store. If the flour is out of the ordinary strong bourgeois, Only then can be kneaded until the walls are clean.

But during and after adding fats not knead. Just stir in slowly and carefully. Meaning evenly distribute that's all.
Dough will then stand for nine hours. Don't overstrain the gluten.

Now dough. The dough is full of butter. Do not force it to separate at temperatures above 28 degrees. No wonder Zest directly pointed this out in the comments. Do not stick in a hot place. Moreover, it must be fermented to a pungent odor. If the yeast is strong and works ahead of time: crush, without waiting maximum volume, if weak - keep the dough longer. We do not whip up with high temperatures. We do not allow to fall.
The consistency of the dough before fermentation will be closer to liquid.
If hand-kneaded, then a little thicker. Raisin has an emphasis on the mixer and on wet dough.
Look at the photo.
I repeat: at Raisin, only the preliminary dough is kneaded, then the baking is only evenly distributed, photo 7.
The dough will rise 4-5 times at the final stage, depending on the yeast and flour.
The moment of adding flour begins.
Again, as always, everything will depend on flour. The dough cannot be made slaughtered. The consistency should be "oatmeal" or "pancakes", which you then knead until the ball that is in the photo with Raisin. That is, pour the flour gently. You can not pour 500 grams, but 400 at once, and pour the remaining 100 grams on a spoon gently and look at the consistency. This cake is not pies. Do not allow density.
Once again, pay attention to the Zest comment

10. Add the remaining 500 g of flour and vanillin to the dough and knead the dough thoroughly.
The dough at the very beginning of the kneading slightly thicker than pancake dough, it seems that it cannot be kneaded:
The dough after 10 minutes. the batch starts to gather in smooth silky bun:

Raisin took 500 grams, we can have + or - a couple of spoons, depending on the flour.

Explanation of kneading in a mixer.
The mixer has a small 1-2 speed and above 4-5. So at 1-2 speeds you will not get a ball. Well, maybe in two hours, I didn't check.
I'm not a technologist, so I don't know the exact minutes. As for me, first from 2 to 6 minutes at a low speed as an imitation of manual mixing, and then also somewhere from 2 to 6 minutes at a high speed. It's easy to break the dough on a high one. Therefore, I mixed it for 2-4 minutes on a high, if it is not going into a ball - I gave it a rest for 15-20 minutes to the dough. Then again at once for a quick couple of more minutes. The bottom line is that the ball is formed only with a high-speed impact. BUT here you have to be very careful !!!! in order not to mix. And it's important !!!! our flour from the nearest store can not give such beauty as Raisins. Our beauty will be more sticky and coarse. And if you try like Raisin, we will only spoil the gluten. If the flour is ordinary, then they poured the flour into the dough and allowed it to swell again, and then knead, too, only until the mass is coherent and stretchy. Rough window when stretched with fingers. Enough.

The same goes for the preliminary test.Do not knead for half an hour at 1-2 speeds, but at 1-2 speeds until complete mixing for up to 8 minutes, and bring it to readiness at high sorties for 2 minutes, but carefully. Only up to a coherent mass.

In terms of kneading, take a look here. Not exactly like this recipe, but the idea is the same: get a well-kneaded canvas of soft dough.
In the preliminary test, we don't need any such windows at all. Only a coherent mass, but in the last test, you need exactly a kneaded delicate canvas. If the flour is from the nearest store, this canvas will be completely opaque, but the canvas.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=225283.0

Do not be too lazy to watch the video of kneading cakes on the website There you can see how the dough begins to gather into a single lump - the first stage, the first stage of kneading.
Only after it the technologists mix up the fats "up to the window". In the Raisin recipe, it is not so: it is necessary to do it in the preliminary test before the first stage, but "to the window" only when we put the flour into the dough, at the very end.

Well, as already indicated above, kneading hot dough will not stand. The temperature in it should not rise above 28-29 degrees.

Well, then molding, proofing and baking.

Added Wednesday 04 May 2016 01:22 PM

ledi, and mine are not full of holes, but like a cupcake. There is no corresponding rise in yeast holes. Although the harvest is at least 2 times less than the finished cake, that is, there is growth. I see, after all, the reason is the lack of gluten-free flour when added to butter dough, here's a cake for you.
And I always spread the dough into molds with a spoon, the forms are narrow, extended with paper, it is inconvenient to crawl with your hand, you must hook the sides of the molds, and the consistency of the dough is the same as I bake every year, you cannot shape the cake dough into a bun.

Well, here is the method of kneading, you are right, such that it is impossible to completely remove the cupcake. Dough fats block some of the new flour right away, of course. The last dough is kneaded with "defective" gluten, part of the shortcrust pastry should be formed.
The weaker the flour, the larger the cake will be.
Yeast, though with difficulty, but works, once they raise the dough.

You can only reduce this cupcake as much as possible. Removing completely is unlikely to work.

Look. After adding flour, do not knead immediately. Let it swell.
Then knead.
Usually they make a couple of separate doughs and then mix them. But then it will already be a different recipe and a different technology.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, it's a pity there is no signature in your name ... the skill of the dough became thinner as soon as she began to knead the HP and the combine. What's wrong? First, I mixed it with a spoon, thickish, as soon as the technique kneads before our eyes, it liquefies. The dough was fermented at 20 degrees, without any heating. Thanks for the advice, it will be very useful, I will bake it on Commemorative Sunday. I look forward to your more messages !!!!

Added Wednesday, 04 May 2016 1:42 pm

Anastasia, and I try to form a bun, hide the raisins all inside from the sides, so that they do not stick to the form and do not burn. I bake in tin cans, grease them with not melted lard, that is, not liquid, straight with my fingers. Pascals pop out very well, the sides are smooth.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, sorry there is no signature in your name ... the skill of the dough became thinner as soon as she began to knead the HP and the combine. What's wrong? First, I mixed it with a spoon, thickish, as soon as the technique kneads before our eyes, it liquefies. The dough was fermented at 20 degrees, without any heating. Thanks for the advice, it will be very useful, I will bake it on Commemorative Sunday. I look forward to your more messages !!!!

Technique applies energy, heats up. And there is a lot of fat.
Here is the appearance of liquefaction.
We plump flour into a fat dough. If the flour is weak, then it will be especially difficult for it to form gluten and cope with the aggression of the oil. Therefore, mix, leave to swell the gluten, and then knead. Slowly at first, then more quickly.
The dough is collected if there is gluten there. And then look what happens with our flour. It does not immediately swell in water, but solid oil in the sourdough. Allow a little longer to swell.
I write to swell, but I mean: to form gluten. This very gluten for kneading is not formed immediately in the dough, but after a while.
Like chewing gum. You must first soak, and only then chew

If the flour is weak, it is also important! and strongly liquefies, then knead in last time a little thicker!! than Raisin. To give the dough extra gluten from the extra flour.
Look. First, make a tender, moist dough like Raisin. Let it swell and try to knead. If the flour does not pull in any way, then carefully add the flour and again leave it to swell a little and knead.
You need to adapt to your flour so that you don't hammer the dough and get the slurry.

Unfortunately, no options. Only kneaded gluten lasts in bread. All the fiber is just from her. Unmixed dough with lack of moisture: coarse crumb and no fiber. Contact with butter flour - shortbread dough - muffin.

You can immediately agree to a rougher crumb in the kulich and knead the last dough more tightly, but all the same, the dough should be pleasantly soft, such that the kneading device pulls.
Thicker for light flour is good.

No matter what they wrote there before, this recipe is very difficult if the flour is weak.

Girls, I did everything according to the description of the Raisin and everything turned out well the first time (except for the lumps that I picked out from the dough already) I put flour strictly according to the recipe, the dough was plastic, stretching and easily formed with slightly wet hands in a bun in order to put in shape, I did not use a spoon. I had flour from Auchan, the most expensive Limak
it seems called (10 kg -215 rubles) I will say right away the flour is strong, I made 4 recipes for Custard cakes, Saffron, Chocolate and this one - everything turned out perfectly well and if I read the authors of all the recipes, the dough I got a little steeper, despite the fact that I measured everything with scales ... I kneaded everything with a bread maker on the pizza program. I fermented the dough about room temperature, and the forms were already standing on a warm windowsill where it was 28-30 degrees. The dough in the form has risen to 2/3 and when baking has already risen and got pretty cakes. The roofs did not collapse and the taste is very good, this is not a cake, but a real fragrant cake.

[to all]

Girls, I did everything according to the description of the Raisin and everything turned out well the first time (except for the lumps that I picked out from the dough already) I put flour strictly according to the recipe, the dough was plastic, stretching and easily formed with slightly wet hands in a bun in order to put in shape, I did not use a spoon. I had flour from Auchan, the most expensive Limak
it seems called (10 kg -215 rubles) I will say right away the flour is strong, I made 4 recipes for Custard cakes, Saffron, Chocolate and this one - everything turned out perfectly well and if I read the authors of all the recipes, the dough I got a little steeper, despite the fact that I measured everything with scales ... I kneaded everything with a bread maker on the pizza program. I fermented the dough about room temperature, and the forms were already standing on a warm windowsill where it was 28-30 degrees. The dough in the form has risen to 2/3 and when baking has already risen and got pretty cakes. The roofs did not collapse and the taste is very good, this is not a cake, but a real fragrant cake.

your flour is just the most common, since you made the dough thicker, HP did an excellent job, and the Easter cakes turned out to be tender.
Yours is thicker than you and saved The dough you used was not Izyumkino, but HP - consistency, judging by the description.

It makes sense to take your experience to all for service. To make this cake in a denser version for domestic flour and knead in medium, like on pizza.
But .. there is one point. At Raisin, this cake is conceived as a fibrous-oily and tender-heavy, and not just a cake.
Her perfect idea was done for instrument and not so easy to implement.

Or it may be easier and better to dwell on your version, and conjure over recipes without mixing right away with butter.
I am so satisfied with the Easter cakes from Svetta. The composition is the same as that of Myasoedovsky, but to make it simpler, it is easier not to make a mistake. Well, he is a little different, but also more predictable.

By the way, about the wine aroma.
From here
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=421070.0

Cakes can be greased with cognac using a wide brush several times over the entire surface, and stored all this time in a sealed XL ziplock bag. If you bake them on Maundy Thursday, then by Saturday you will get several such greases and they will be well saturated with cognac vapors. Then they can be quickly glazed and carried to hallow. You can simply put a cotton wool soaked in cognac in a bag of cakes and moisten it several times as the alcohol evaporates. This is also possible.

in this thread
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=421070.0
there is still a photo of the dough canvas. Here at Izumka her dough is even more tender, look at her last ball in the photo, point 10, and on our flour, at the last kneading in Myasoedovsky's recipe, at least to get this, progress is already difficult.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, thank you so much for so much information and for taking so much time! Read-do not re-read)

I kneaded everything with a stationary mixer. The machine is powerful, 1000W. The dough stood for 12.5 hours at 19 ° C, it smelled great! The dough was kneaded in 5 cycles of 7 minutes (5 at medium speed, 2 at high) with rest breaks. The dough ends up nice, but slightly sticky, not a rag). Flour over the recipe added 70 grams per half portion, I didn't want to score any more. But I wanted to add more ... Approximately 2.5 hours at 23-25 ​​° in the oven with incl. strap. There was definitely no overheating.
I understand that everything is different for everyone, I just draw attention to it) it is clear that only your own experience is needed here. And I made a sample with a specialist, it turned out much better with almost identical ingredients and a slightly different process, that's what is offensive and surprising. Now I understand something a little, I’ll reread all the recommendations one more time, put it on the shelves, get myself together and conquer this recipe on a new one)

[Anastasia]

Anastasia,
but see how in the subject
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=421070.0
raisins are mixed.
Oksana,

pay attention to the swelling time.
If gluten is not formed in the dough, then at least try to do it at any speed, there is nothing to knead.
Usually our flour gives initial the amount of gluten is not earlier than half an hour. Therefore, it makes sense to wait from half an hour to an hour and then knead.
And this is with water, and if there is also oil there, it will take a hundred years to form.

But in parallel with the formation of gluten, oil also creeps into flour and "muffin", and as I understand it, the intensity of this intervention is the higher, the less water (not oil) in the dough. As I understand it, the less moisture in the dough, the more the oil from it attacks the new flour, because there is less moisture for wetting it, but there is less oil behind the eyes, and the swelling is longer and the cake is stronger. It seems to me.
In theory, probably, the wetter the dough, the more useful it is for the final dough.
It also seems to me that cold butter mixes weaker with flour, so cool dough is better than warm one.
But what seems to have to be tested in practice.

So your own creativity in the recipe suggests itself. First, knead the dough from the last 500 grams of flour from a portion of the milk, and make the dough thicker and then mix.
But .. this must also be checked in practice. Suddenly it doesn't work, but worsens.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, after kneading, I did not observe a kolobok, but the dough fell out of the bowl well, without sticking, but when the raisins began to interfere with it, it was funny with something, but then I cried. I had to add flour and let it come up, it became less sticky. That year I baked, but when kneading, I had a bun. clearly the flour was better

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, after kneading, I did not observe a kolobok, but the dough fell out of the bowl well, without sticking, but when the raisins began to interfere with it, it was funny with something, but then I cried. I had to add flour and let it come up, it became less sticky. That year I baked, but when kneading, I had a bun. clearly the flour was better

yeah. This stickiness cannot be removed in any way if the flour is like that. I always shove ascorbic acid and serum. You can't think of anything else.You can also hold the dough for an hour, and only then knead (just not in a hot place, gluten loves the cold)

Recently, I found Luda's advice to shove egg white as a gluten enhancer. But I haven't tried it yet.

[fffuntic]

I always shove ascorbic acid and serum.

fffuntic, and in what proportion?

[turned out]

Well I do not know. You can think a lot about different reasons, different products. But me too turned out both the first time and the second. Yes, I take stronger flour, but this is exactly what is recommended in the recipe.
It seemed to me that AnastasiaK, a normal cut, maybe it is under-baked, or not well-established, Nastya, forgive me about the appearance in general. I'm sure your cake is baked, etc. Zest writes that the cake is not airy, but oily, heavy. After all, he did not grow five times with her either. Two years ago, it seems, we were kneading this cake with Lyudochka-lappi in a bread maker, and despite the distance separating us, we got excellent, identical koloboks. But I don't like airy ones, they are cottony to me, so I cannot assess them adequately. And here, from the picture, it is difficult to understand what the matter is. Moreover, there are no obvious mistakes. Or maybe he should be like that? Maybe these stages are thought out for such a result ?! Maybe the little things were almost enough ?!
Do not forget about yeast-products, they are also different, to find out which of them gives us a pig will not work, to be able to deal with their "non-work" is another terrible: girl-swoon: story. Let's better keep our fingers crossed and hope things work out. And then I began to doubt everything! : girl-th: We read the right mantra.
I was mistaken, I looked at Nastya's cake, and wrote -Vera

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, and in what proportion?

I don't weigh it. I add it to the liquid and try with an estimate of how much acid in the dough will or will not be felt.
According to GOSTs, 10-15 percent of the flour mass can be added to sweet bread.
But in practice, more than 20 percent can go to my bread. I can replace half of the water or milk.
The serum only improves, it cannot be shifted from the point of view of its usefulness.
But I can't stand the taste of sour milk in sweet pastries, so the amount depends on the degree of whey acid, and I pour it only on the taste, like sugar in tea.
Pour until a sour taste is felt in the milk or water.

But "live" serum is enough and very little for it to work as an enhancer.

In a glass, try pouring the whey into a little milk and remember the proportion. It is then spread over all the liquid in the recipe. It will be different each time due to the different whey acid and sweetness of the recipe.

[Loksa]

Loksa, Oksana, I read it and I am also surprised ... For the second year in a row, Myasoedovsky Easter cake turns out perfectly !!! I do two batches. I do everything according to Iziumka's recipe
And all sorts of serums, ascorbic acids, etc., and even completely change the technology - this is already ANOTHER cake
You can take out this OTHER cake with a separate recipe, otherwise next year a lot of extra offtop will appear in this recipe ... IMHO

[Loksa]

Loksa, Oksana, I read it and I am also surprised ... For the second year in a row, Myasoedovsky Easter cake turns out perfectly !!! I do two batches. I do everything according to Iziumka's recipe
And all sorts of serums, ascorbic acids, etc., and even completely change the technology - this is already ANOTHER cake
You can take out this OTHER cake with a separate recipe, otherwise next year a lot of extra offtop will appear in this recipe ... IMHO

So all the fuss is just about making it according to Izyumkin. As in her photo and even in the comments.
But not everyone has the right flour and therefore does not work. How to knead in a raisin, if not kneaded?
These serums are ascorbic acids, they do not belong to the recipe, but to improve the "bad" flour in the store. And now, when Nordic stands immeasurably, this is especially important.

If you buy strong flour with good gluten, wonderful yeast, then nothing is needed. But if this is not the case, then you need to somehow get out

Added Wednesday 04 May 2016 09:16 PM

Natalia. For example, I bought Lux yeast, they gave me dough not on schedule.
What to do? I had to wriggle out. Flour without ascorbic acid generally floats, sticky dough.
I agree about the controversy of the changes in the recipe, but this amateur performance did not appear from a good life.

Floating flour-tall, finally a disaster! Of course, it's time to make out the flights. current this ... I went ran a circle around the house,: crazy: and that mozK boiled.

Of course, it's time to make out the flights.

to be honest, I don't know anymore, but what needs to be disassembled
I understand that there are three versions of Easter cake: in the mixer, in the HP, by hand.
The proportions from the recipe give a different dough for everyone, depending on what flour and yeast are purchased, so theoretically the cakes should be slightly different? It is so?
And everyone has their own concept of what this cake should be. How to determine whether it turned out right or not? Everyone does something differently: some with lumps, some thicker, some thinner

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, delicious, the most important thing

who is thicker, who is thinner

This means that the sweetness is different if the sugar is not counted. and in the process, flour is mixed.

This means that the sweetness is different if the sugar is not counted. and in the process, flour is mixed.

Reviews are subjective to taste. That one cake is another cake.
And there are too many variations of this cake, which are very different, but all delicious. And how can you decide exactly what is right and what is wrong?