Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives

[Kassandra64]

Dear Kassandra64
In this recipe, the roof of the bread is very critical to the ratio of flour + dry food / water (or its substitutes), the moisture of the flour also affects. Calculate this ratio more precisely in the original recipe and observe it when baking.
I think everything will be fine.
By the way, regarding your earlier question. When baking this bread, I do not use either panifarin or agram at all, my leaven is "eternal leaven". The only thing is that in the absence of malt in our city, I use dry kvass. But I want to experiment with making malt myself. There is such experience on the Internet.
Photo of my modification of bread in the answer 132 and the recipe in 134.

[al_rd]

al_rd, Thank you.
I kind of calculated as I could accurately. The problem, probably, is that it is difficult to accurately account for the amount of liquid and dry matter in the leaven (rye flour + fermented yogurt + water + a bit of yeast), there is also an approximate ratio.
But still: if the roof is such a conical "fossa", does it mean little or much water? Reduce?
Or maybe the problem is in the bread maker itself? The fact is that my dough kneading does not look the same as in the video from Vanya28, although the density and color are about the same, even a little thicker. The scapula moves inside the dough, obviously kneading the inner, lower layer, but on the surface, especially at the edges, almost no movement is visible, only a slight movement in the middle.

[Kassandra64]

Dear Kassandra64
Sorry, I'm on vacation now and I don't always have access to the Internet, so I answer with a delay.
If there is a depression, it means a lot of liquid. How to calculate the amount of liquid in the leaven was very well described by Admin. Remember how you started to make the leaven - how much liquid there was - and how many dry ingredients and calculate what percentage (or proportion) of both. This is your "source" - then trace how you fed her and what (in what proportion) and then you can calculate how much liquid and dry components are in your starter. I made it easier - when I started the leaven, I took 50x50 flour and whey. The result is the so-called 100% sourdough. And I tried to feed in the same proportion, so that it remained 100%. This is an equal amount of leaven + flour + water. so much easier to work with it in the recipe - that is, for example, 300g. sourdough means 150g. dry ingredients and 150g. liquid. True, I did not have whey and I switched to water - so my starter gradually turned from lactic acid into "eternal".
And about the kneading, you should have noticed that Vanya28 constantly presses the kneaded dough against the moving paddle with its silicone paddle.
I have more dough, so I have to work more intensively with a spatula and all the time of kneading. But I only make bread of this weight because I can't bake it more than once a week. And now they eat only it (fighting overweight). But I also think to recalculate my recipe for a weight of 1 kg - it is very difficult for a bread maker.

[al_rd]

al_rd, well, so I have a ferment 50 to 50, not by weight, but by volume. So I subtract - in full accordance with the recommendations Vanya28, according to which I made the leaven - 200 ml of liquid and 70 g of flour. I feed the same. I will try to reduce the amount of water a little when baking today.

And I use a silicone spatula in the same way as Vanya28... But the dough is kneaded differently.

Well, more can be said only by looking at your batch. Maybe you have different sizes and shapes of the scapula. In general, he also constantly presses the dough against the shoulder blade so that everything is kneaded.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, thanks for the recipe and numerous clarifications.
Yesterday I put the leaven,
...
However, the bread rose, in my opinion, not enough, the dome did not work, and in the last half hour of baking, the roof also collapsed, a hole was formed in the middle ...

Proving dough is normal.
We reduce the amount of water by 50 ml. and see how the dough is kneaded.
If the dough is not kneaded, add 20 ml of water.
Success and write about the result.

...
And I use a silicone spatula in the same way ...
But the dough is kneaded differently.

Your dough kneading is different due to the use of sourdough, which already contains water and everything does not happen as evenly as with dry ingredients. It's not scary. Remember to press the dough against the mixer.
Write for other users how to bake this bread for your Severin bread maker.

Write for other users how to bake this bread for your Severin bread maker.

In my bread maker, I do it very simply:
first mode 10 - "Light dough" (kneading 30 minutes, rise 60 minutes).

At the end, that is, after the beep, I turn on mode 12 "Baking". It actually lasts 60 minutes, but 30 minutes after the start, I press the "Start" button twice (that is, I stop the program and start it again). It turns out 1 hour 30 minutes.

Actually about baking rye bread: the second time it turned out even worse :-( I reduced the amount of water, but the roof collapsed even more, cracked in several places, and the crumb lags behind the crust: both at the bottom and at the top. In general, I decided to wait parcels from the online store and bake with "Agram", and not with homemade sourdough. Apparently, I messed something up in the dosage when preparing it.

...
the second time it turned out even worse :-( I reduced the amount of water, but the roof collapsed even more, cracked in several places,
...

You need to do the following:
1. It is difficult to guess in advance the activity of the leaven (how quickly it will raise the dough). We proceed as follows. We measure the height of the bucket. We carry out kneading, measure the resulting dough volume before lifting. We are waiting for an increase in the volume of the dough by about 1.8-2.0 times, but no more, and switch to baking. Control of the rise height of the dough can be done by lifting the lid for 1 second, no longer, otherwise the dough will settle.
2. We leave the amount of water as for the first time, I had an assumption that the rise of the dough was too high and the lid was opened, since the crumb in the photo is normal. If again there is not a large failure of the crust, then we will reduce the water by 20-30 ml. Until everything works out.
3. Do not lift the lid for the first 40 minutes of baking, it can also ruin the “roof” of the bread.
4. We write everything down, it will help you easily make corrections.
5. We are waiting for an excellent result.

Vanya28, and I lifted the lid !!! Moreover, repeatedly and for a long time. Maybe this is the reason?
Everything, next time, no, no.

In general, I decided to wait for the package from the online store and bake with "Agram", and not with homemade sourdough. Apparently, I confused something in the dosage when preparing it.

And today I did just completely on sourdough, replacing the yeast with it. Despite constantly lifting the lid, the dome fell off quite a bit. I kneaded the dough on the "pizza" mode, then set the "gluten-free" program - kneading for 15 minutes, then proofing for 60 minutes, then turned off the oven and watched the bread rise (I had to often open the lid). As a result, after another 2 hours, it rose almost 2 times and stopped climbing. I waited another hour (since I am not quite familiar with my sourdough yet, I bake it for the third time, and for the first time with rye) and put it on baking, but decided to slightly reduce the time - to 1h10min.
Now the bread is cooling down. Tomorrow morning I'll cut it, I'll try to lay out what happened.

and this is cut:

photographed with flash, so the photo is grayer. In fact, a very nice brown rye color.

[Pirogok]

Vanya28 probably meant that in Panasonic the program does not start immediately, and you need to wait until the sensor cools down.If your oven allows you to immediately turn on baking, then these manipulations are not needed.

Pirogok, in my stove (as in most others), it is also impossible to start a new program immediately after the end of the previous one, this is understandable. The stove should cool down for about 20 minutes, as the instructions say. So I understand exactly what I mean Vanya28... But if the switch is made not after the end of the program, but BEFORE the end, then it is possible - IMHO, on any stoves. Even in this thread they wrote about it. Yes, and I also wrote a little higher in the answer Vanya28that I achieve an hour and a half of baking like this: I turn on the "Baking" program for 1 hour, and when 30 minutes have passed, I turn it off and on again. The same can be done not after 30, but after 35, 40, and after as many minutes. That is why I was surprised at the recommendation to complete the program and then "trick" the bread maker with ice.

Now the bread is cooling down. Tomorrow morning I'll cut it, I'll try to lay out what happened.

Look forward to!

If it turns out to increase the baking time, then it is clear that ice is not needed to deceive the automation.

Kassandra64, I believe that you are already on the right track and figured out what to look for.
We are waiting for the result.
Pirogok, many have difficulty using sourdough.
Write down the composition and preparation method of your own and how much leaven was added to the recipe.

I have "eternal" sourdough from Luka (50/50 rye flour-well water), but the last time I fed it with yogurt (it remained in the refrigerator, but it's a pity to throw it away). She really liked it, she climbed well.
In the mixed form of the leaven, I put 9 tablespoons with top (not sparing). As a result, there was 500g of sourdough (weighed it specially) - 300g of flour, only 100ml of water for malt, the rest according to the recipe ... I’m lying, I also added 1 tbsp. l. sunflower oil. I did not add tremors at all.
First I kneaded for 15 minutes on "pizza", then switched to the "gluten-free" mode - it was mixed for 15 minutes, it was steamed for 60 minutes. then she turned off the stove and placed it for another 2 hours (3 in total). Has risen about 2 times. But I made a mistake - I often opened the lid for a long time. As a result, after the 3rd hour of proofing, I waited some more, but the roof began to go down, and I turned on the baking for 1h 10min.
The bread is baked, it turned out finely porous. We liked it :)
By the way, when I baked my first rye bread, there was no malt, but there was a leavened wort. I put it in bread instead of malt, but in the same way, I didn't even reduce the water (at that time the stove was a week old, I didn't know all the subtleties yet). As a result, the bread rose very well and was highly porous. True, the wort is sweet, this must be taken into account :)
So if it doesn't work with malt and there is an opportunity to replace it with wort, then you can try it, it should definitely work out.

The recipe is wonderful! Thank you!
Kneaded in Mulinex, baked in the oven.
Indeed, delicious. Although before that he made Borodinsky according to the recipe from the site for Mulinex (in the second photo), he turned out to be more aromatic, like a real Borodinsky, but there are more additives in it.
I will have to try your custard with additives (honey, coriander), then compare. But he is good in himself.

Kneaded in Mulinex, baked in the oven.

What, vi_kon, does GOD protect? But what about the extension of baking ...

Although before that he made Borodinsky according to the recipe from the site for Mulinex

I will have to try your custard with additives (honey, coriander), then compare.

Too much liquid and makes bread to bake longer

If in the VANYA28 recipe you reduce the water by 50-70 ml, then it is quite possible to do it "entirely in your HP" like Borodinsky in program 9 (this should be in your recipe book). It is possible without steps - just press START to continue after 30 minutes from the beginning of the program. Or "play around" - add the brewed malt in a pause before restarting.

This bread will turn out and on program 8 (with fatty acids) there are 1:10 baked goods, if it seems to you that the bread is too moist on program 9, i.e.Because there are pastries at 0:53.

The choice of program is easy to adjust with liquid, but I still do better on program 9.

And bake the meat in the oven. Black bread with juicy meat is very tasty

...
If in the VANYA28 recipe you reduce the water by 50-70 ml, then quite ...

It is not difficult to reduce the amount of water, the bread maker is not a kneader, it may stop for a long time (I mean forever).

[Vanya28]

Respected Vanya28! Everything is working out, everything is fine, I bake in 255 Panasonic. Question: How to reduce roof cracking? I would like to get the same bread as in your photo. I think that peeled flour from different manufacturers differs in quality, therefore people get different results. Could it be the amount of water? Thank you. Yes, after 1 hour of baking, I moistened it with boiling water - only the cracks were already there, and if you moisten it before, then after how much from the beginning of baking can you do it? Thank you.

after 1 hour of baking, moistened with boiling water - only the cracks were already there, and if moistened earlier, then after how much from the beginning of baking can you do this?

when I was making sourdough bread (and the EU watched the process) I noticed that cracks on the roof do not appear at the time of baking, but at the time of raising the dough, so wetting during baking will not play a role.
Maybe it makes sense when forming a roof at the end of the batch to do it with a wet hand, maybe then it will turn out without cracks.
True, the cracks do not bother me, since this does not affect the taste of the bread in any way.

I leveled it after kneading - all the same, the cracks, though smaller, and the middle of the loaf is at the level with the edges, and around, along the perimeter, the roof sagged a little - it can be seen that the water should be reduced for my flour. I'll try tomorrow with less water.

... Question: how to reduce roof cracking? ...

Cracking is influenced by the amount of water in the dough and the rate at which it is lost during baking. If the cracks are small, then the quality of the bread does not suffer from this, and hearth bread, for example, always has them.
If the cracks are deep and the crust is thick, then check the fit of the lid in the bread maker and the fit of the gasket in the dispenser.
Pay close attention to the proportions of the ingredients and their changes, rye bread is very sensitive to the composition of the dough and a small deviation in the composition of the dough affects the final result.
Pay attention, in your case, to the height of the rise of the dough, the dough should increase in volume by half or slightly less.
If you look closely at all my photographs of bread, you can see on some of them shallow cracks, which are not always formed, but sometimes they do, and I have very strict control over compliance with the composition of the dough.
Show photos of your bread for completeness.

Here are my photos

Why then HP.
...
But, the number of people who bake bread at home would have significantly decreased if it were not for KP.

IMHO.
HP is needed to get the result with minimal time spent on supporting the process. Ideal application: delayed start.
That is why HP attracts so many people.

I apologize to the author of the topic for the offtopic and for the sim I bow out.

... HP is needed to get the result with minimal time spent on supporting the process. ...

It's hard to disagree with this remark!
This was my main idea, to get rye custard bread quickly, simply and with a good traditional taste in the end.
I started my topic about baking rye custard bread with the aim of sharing experience and showing that baking it is simple, fast and not very difficult.

Here are my photos

The cut of the bread is desirable more.
We definitely reduce the water by 30-50 ml.
You can compare the viscosity of your test with the video that you posted earlier on page 11.
Remember that yeast also has a strong effect, you may have to reduce its amount by a quarter, but not immediately. First, we reduce the water and see the result.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28 , thanks for the response, but I did not wait - they are pressing the baking time of the exemplary rye ... In 20 minutes the result will be. Outwardly - some kind of horror What did I do: 310 ml was poured into the bucket before mixing. water + 100 ml. brewed malt. The batch went, but very tight. I added 10 ml., Then another 10 - all the same, the batch was tough. Added another 20 ml. - more n estal. He helped to knead almost all the time, about 13 minutes. After that, with moistened hands, he gave the dough the shape of a bun and returned it to the bread maker. So in total I had 450 ml. But it seems that this is not enough - there is no rise in the dough, that is, a little, some kind of twisted and, as it were, torn. (Sorry for the confusion) I think the taste will be normal, but the view ... So I think in my case, 470 ml of water is needed. in total. Thanks again for your attention!

You can compare the viscosity of your test with the video that you posted earlier.

The link is not loaded, I wanted to see it even earlier, but no luck. And here is a photo of my experiment - a bread monster

[Vanya28]

Vanya28 , thanks for your response, but I did not wait - they are pressing the baking time of the exemplary rye ... In 20 minutes the result will be. Outwardly - some kind of horror What did I do: ...

The loaf is not the most horrible, horror. It can be more fun.
Write the recipe in full, what, how much and how you added it.
Let's figure it out.
If the video link doesn't load, please update your flash player. The link is working, I checked it.
And do not forget to show the cut of the loaf.

Quite frankly, I would not say that your process follows the "load and forget" principle expected of an automatic bread maker.
...

What to do is the easiest option.
The rest is equipment costs, write about it yourself.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28 Rye bread is insanely complicated Thank you for your work ... + 5

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, I downloaded a video course of mixing - now at least I know which "kolobok" to focus on. On the cut, all the loaves are fine-pored, and the crumb of the one shown in the last "terrible" photo I liked more than on the others. Perhaps I will look for the same paddle, otherwise I only have wide wooden ones in the "arsenal", and you won't be able to use them in a small hospital. I will report on the next experiment.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, happened! The bread on the cut is rather wet, but I even like it. I did everything as in the recipe, only this time I took white malt (not dark as before) and I have 475 g of water in total in the recipe. I attach a photo

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, happened! The bread on the cut is rather wet, but I even like it. I did everything as in the recipe, only this time I took white malt (not dark as before) and I have 475 g of water in total in the recipe. I attach a photo

Decent result!
Whether the malt is white or not is a matter of taste.
The amount of water should be further reduced and left at 450 ml.
The roof of the loaf will then turn out to be not sagging, along the edge it is now clearly visible.
The dampness of the crumb will also go away. Also, on freshly baked bread, the crumb is always damp and comes back to normal after a couple of hours.
Further success to you!

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, here is the result from 450 gr. water. All the same, the roof fell a little at the edges, despite the general rise.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, here is the result from 450 gr. water. All the same, the roof fell slightly at the edges, despite the general rise.

If the viscosity of the dough allows, then further reduce the amount of water.
If the dough is already thick enough, then reduce the amount of yeast by a quarter.
And don't forget to show the cut.

Cool Temka, but you can ask a question, I want to buy a bread maker, but so that it must bake rye bread, is there a difference in the quality of baked bread in the Panasonic SD-253 models? (207, 254, 255)? i.e. 254 is not worse than 255? or 207?

Cool Temka, but you can ask a question, I want to buy a bread maker, but so that it must bake rye bread, is there a difference in the quality of baked bread in the Panasonic SD-253 models? (207, 254, 255)? i.e. 254 is not worse than 255? or 207?

For rye from this topic, it's better to buy delongues, I don't remember the numbers with the possibility of programming I did not take this one, because we do not have their service in our city

[Andyvit]

Cool Temka, but you can ask a question, I want to buy a bread maker, but so that it must bake rye bread, is there a difference in the quality of baked bread in the Panasonic SD-253 models? (207, 254, 255)? i.e. 254 is not worse than 255? or 207?

Rye bread can be baked in many bread makers, the only difference will be in the convenience of obtaining it.
Looking at the Panasonic SD-253? (207, 254, 255), the first two are discontinued.
254 and 255 differ only in the presence in the latter of a dispenser for adding seeds, etc. and a replaceable second comb-type spatula for rye bread, it can be bought separately at service centers. Its absence does not interfere with baking rye bread.
The quality of the baked goods obtained in these ovens is very good. The stoves are reliable. But Panasonic, unfortunately, does not produce programmable ovens today, in which it is essentially more convenient to get rye bread.
A very good programmable stove in this price range is the Kenwood BM450.
Programmable DeLonghi BDM-125S mentioned above AndyvitA well-proven stove is good enough.
Its price is pleasantly cheaper. Small flaws in it can be easily eliminated with foil. Read about this topic in the section equipment.
From different stoves, for today, I like Kenwood BM450 very much.
Good quality, great functionality and ease of use.

[Bri]

Bri, I have Ranas 255, there is a rye mode, if you bake pure rye bread, then there is not enough time for proofing, you have to interrupt the program, lay down, knead the dough, turn off and proofing for 2-3 hours depending on the ambient temperature, then turn on the baking, pure rye bread does not rise well, therefore special additives such as gluten, malt, etc., etc., are needed.If you bake half-and-half with wheat bread, then in the rye mode it bakes well, the only thing at the beginning is to follow the formation of the bun, and when you get this process right, everything will be much easier. But I think that in the end you will come to leaven, like many on this forum, and will bake not only in a bread machine, but also in the oven.
True, this is my opinion.

Thank you very much for the quick answer and advice, I'll go shopping today and ask about service centers, I think we don't have them at all, I saw Ranas 254 in the store, they said 255 can be brought to order, I'll go see Kenwood BM450, but DeLonghi is exactly the same name I haven't even seen it in our stores.

Basja completely agrees with you, because even now I try to bake the oven with sourdough (without yeast), but there is no time to bake it often, so I thought about a bread maker, she kneads and even bakes herself. Since the husband loves pastries and even just his own bread.

[by leaps and bounds]

Thank you very much for the quick response and advice ...
I saw Ranas 254 in the store, they said 255 can be brought to order, I'll go see Kenwood BM450, ...

Total for the success of yeast rye custard bread baking
it takes 2 h. 45 min.
and a little patience to consider the characteristics of the available rye flour and yeast.

Program for baking rye custard bread by leaps and bounds in Kenwood BM450 looks like this:
1. Temperature equalization - 0 minutes (0 - 60 min.).
2. Mix 1 = 0 minutes (0 - 10 min.).
3. Mix 2 = 15 minutes. (0 - 30 min.)... We help with a spatula.
4. Rise 1 = 60 minutes (20 - 60 min.).
5. Mix 3 = 15 sec. Will not turn on.
Mix 3 mode always 15 sec. and turns on if the Ascent 2 time is selected more than 0 min.
6. Rise 2 = 0 minutes (0 - 2 hours).
7. Mix 4 = 15 sec. Will not turn on.
Mix 4 mode always 15 sec. and turns on if the Ascent 3 time is selected more than 0 min.
8. Rise 3 = 0 minutes (0 - 2 hours).
9. Baking = 1 h. 30 min. (0 - 1 h. 30 min.).
10. Heating = 0 minutes (0 - 60 min.).

For sourdough baking, increase the rising time by 1 - 3 hours.

Program for baking rye custard bread sourdough in Kenwood BM450 looks like this:
1. Temperature equalization - 0 minutes (0 - 60 min.).
2. Mix 1 = 0 minutes (0 - 10 min.).
3. Mix 2 = 15 minutes. (0 - 30 min.)... We help with a spatula.
4. Rise 1 = 60 minutes (20 - 60 min.).
5. Mix 3 = 15 sec.
Mix mode 3 always 15 sec. and turns on if the Ascent 2 time is selected more than 0 min.
6. Rise 2 = 2 hours (0 - 2 hours)... The rise time must be matched to the existing leaven.
7. Kneading 4 = 15 sec. Will not turn on.
Mix 4 mode always 15 sec. and turns on if the Ascent 3 time is selected more than 0 min.
8. Rise 3 = 0 minutes (0 - 2 hours).
9. Baking = 1 h. 30 min. (0 - 1 h. 30 min.).
10. Heating = 0 minutes (0 - 60 min.).

[Vanya28]

Vanya28
Suddenly the dry yeast ran out - I decided to try it on live pressed ones. For this, I slightly modified the recipe - it turned out delicious and magnificent. First, I loaded 600 gr into the bucket. lactic acid starter culture. Top with malt with yeast. First, I dilute the pressed yeast with warm milk (25g for 50g milk) and add two tbsp. tablespoons of rye flour. When the yeast starts to "work" I introduce it into the brewed (46 gr. Per 150 gr. Water) malt and put it on for 10 minutes. to a warm place. Then pour this actively bubbling mass on top of the leaven. Then I sift 400gr on top. rye flour and fall asleep 26 gr. sugar and 14 grams of salt. All! 30 minutes. kneading, however, when kneading, I add curd whey to the state of the dough as in your video (somewhere from 1/2 to 2/3 cup). And then in the form and for 1 hour in the oven. I bake for 35 minutes. I check the readiness with a thermometer.
I will attach the photo later, because the consumption of this bread has doubled - I do not have time to photograph. It turns out a very fluffy, elastic, slightly sour (just right) bread.
P.S. In general, I am puzzled - why such not very difficult to prepare, simple in the composition of products and very tasty pure rye bread is not as popular as some others.

[Vanya28]

Why doesn't it? Personally, I only bake it for myself, as I have mastered it. Therefore, I fell silent on the forum. Somehow I'll take a picture of my bread - I achieved a perfectly convex roof. Yes, and my family also slowly refuses white bread - I really like rye Spaibo Vanya28 for this topic - very useful for health!

[Vanya28]

Vanya28
Dry yeast suddenly ran out - ...

I will attach the photo later, because the consumption of this bread has doubled - I do not have time to photograph. It turns out a very fluffy, elastic, slightly sour (just what you need) bread.
P.S. In general, I am puzzled - why such not very difficult to prepare, simple in the composition of products and very tasty pure rye bread is not as popular as some others.

There are several reasons. Lack of rye flour on the market. Look for malt and ready-made sourdough. Homemade sourdough takes understanding, experience and time. Bread makers are far from this bread. Bakeries also add their bit by offering their funky rye bread. Many do not even know its taste, do not know how to cook it. Bread is sensitive to cooking mistakes, which is difficult for beginners.
Glad to see you again. Upload photos.
We will continue to jointly help others to get acquainted with this bread.

[achieved a perfectly convex roof]

Why doesn't it? Personally, I only bake it for myself, as I have mastered it. Therefore, I fell silent on the forum. Somehow I'll take a picture of my bread - achieved a perfectly convex roof... Yes, and my family also slowly refuses white bread - I really like rye Spaibo Vanya28 for this topic - very useful for health!

Please tell us what changes you made to the original recipe?

[Andyvit]

Andyvit
We are waiting for photos of bread. I'd like to look at the roof. Mine turns out to be convex - but a little, not perfect. I came to the conclusion that the bulge and splendor (in this case I mean the height of rise and elasticity) depends not only on the amount of liquid but also on the state of the leaven and the "strength" of the yeast. After switching to live yeast, I increased the amount of liquid and began to use a more mature leaven. The bread began to rise to a great height, the pores in the bread increased, but the roof was slightly convex. If I start to reduce the amount of liquid, it becomes harder for the yeast to raise the dough.As a result, the bread is heavy, low, albeit finely porous.
Vanya28
I just see a lot of rye recipes on the site, the preparation of which is vividly discussed, and in products and technology they are even more complicated than (if you don't mind) ours.
When I don't have malt, I bake using dry kvass. And in preparing my own sourdough, the only difficulty I have is keeping it in working order. By the way, there are a lot of starter culture recipes on the site, as well as people using them. For example, I now use the monastery number 3.

Here is the result. Made strictly according to the recipe. In the morning it will cool down, I will cut it and look. A lot of people, but a photo ...

Here is the result. Made strictly according to the recipe. In the morning it will cool down, cut it and look. A lot of people, but a photo ...

If this is the first try, then it is tolerable, and sometimes more fun.
Show the cut of the crumb, it will become clearer.
It is very similar to a non-kneading dough.
How the dough is kneaded in a bread maker, if you haven't seen it, then look. Here's a link:
🔗
Write step by step how you made and from what. We will give you a hint and everything will work out.

[al_rd]

...
bulge and splendor (in this case I mean the height of rise and elasticity) depends not only on the amount of liquid, but also on the state of the leaven and the "strength" of the yeast.
...
When I don't have malt, I bake using dry kvass. And in preparing my own sourdough, the only difficulty I have is keeping it in working order.
...

al_rd, this is already a pro look. In the end, everything revolves around rye flour and sourdough with malt and a couple of other flavors. What else can I say? But you need to come to this through experience, knowledge and "bumps" naturally.
Sourdough fundamentally changes the bread crumb, it is known, and the addition of yeast to it is a very reasonable step to equalize its lifting force.
When I wrote our recipe, I took ready-made dry ingredients only on the basis of stability and minimal loss of time to get a good result. This is especially important for beginners to bake rye bread.
For the pros, this is almost not a topic, what will not take, what will not add - everything is good, whether malt or dry kvass. And for beginners, you see how difficult it is.

Here is a photo of the sliced ​​bread. Did it early in the morning. lighting is bad. Baked strictly according to the recipe. The first thought is that there is little water. We have good flour.

Here is a photo of the sliced ​​bread. Did it early in the morning. lighting is bad. Baked strictly according to the recipe. The first thought is that there is little water. We have good flour.

The dough is not mixed, a lot of flour remained in the area of ​​the shoulder blade, and at the top, in the zone of the dip, another crumb structure is clearly visible. The dough is difficult to mix from above. If you add water, then 20 - 30 ml. The crumb is good, rather porous.