Bakery products. Butter, margarine, spread or vegetable oil?

I also noticed a much better result when combined with vegetable oil and butter. I have been doing this for many years.

[flame]

flame, and do you use refined corn oil or not? I bought unrefined corn oil, planned it for salads. Maybe somewhere else you can attach?

[Lily]

Lily, Kokoschka, without hydrogenation? What is it like??? Well, only if using palm oil ... because I can't imagine how they get the solid phase then. There was a topic earlier - the possibility of producing a mixture of butter and vegetable (non-hydrogenated) oils was discussed, but something died out ... apparently even then it seemed unprofitable. We have produced before - hydro fat + vegetable oil + fermented milk, which is chemistry now - God only knows.
Bakery technologists recommended margarine because there is a solid + liquid phase. So you can put in baked goods as you like, just the cost of oils 72.5 and 82.5 is not very different, you can only distinguish it from a fake in the laboratory by its fatty acid composition. Intellectually, you understand that type 72.5 should not be faked, but the fact that after the freezer water is not visible ... leads to bad thoughts ... in the end - why excess water in the dough ...

[vatruska]

vatruska, Yes, there is a difference where we take 10-15 rubles.
And what is the best ratio of creamy and vegetable 50/50 for dough?



And no one responded about mutton fat .......
We bought a sheep and melted the interior fat and fat tail.
No unpleasant odors. It turned out very good.

without hydrogenation? What is it like???

So Malysheva claimed ....... I did not believe her ...

[Kokoschka]

Kokoschka, I melted the mutton fat and use it when I cook pilaf. (y) I fry meat and vegetables for pilaf on it. And even when I fry pasties on it with the addition of vegetable.



When I bake bread in cotton, I put olive oil in the dough, and only butter in the other yeast pastry dough in the middle of the batch (room temperature) and at the very end of 1-2 tbsp. l odorless sunflower. It makes the dough more porous, and the pies airy, high.

[velli]

velli, I also use Valya for frying! But for baking in the dough not even once.
Googling .....

[Kokoschka]

Kokoschkawhat oil do you mean? I did not get that.

Kokoschka, what kind of oil do you mean? I did not get that.

I wrote about mutton fat that I had never used it in the dough.

And she wrote about butter that she realized that the best thing in dough is butter 82.5 and vegetable, probably 1: 1.

[vatruska]

Oh, how much they raised here!
1.

If the oil with low fat content does not crumble after the freezer, then, excuse me, the question arises as to what kind of oil is this ...

I wrote about the lack of crumbling not after the freezer, but

No fridge crumbling

, i.e. With a temperature of ~ + 4 °.
Because according to my recollections, the butter of the perestroika times, so to speak, was crumbling in principle. We did not eat or buy it; for reasons of principle, I also never bought "Rama" and other imitations.
This oil is specially for you sfotala:

I am not a commodity expert or a taster; when buying oil I am guided by my amateurish taste buds. Now I specially took out a pack from the freezer - I’ll check if it “sweats”, but I didn’t notice it before.
Checked:

Definitely - ice crystals shine after some time in the warmth. But I usually put the oil from the freezer into the oil can in the refrigerator, I didn't see water on the surface (sort of).In this case, when transferring from -18 ° С to + 24 °, I am not sure that this is not frozen condensate.
2. As far as I understand - a mixture of butter and vegetable oil just gives a "margarine" effect in baking. I remember the "Khrushchev" dough - it is definitely better on margarine than on butter. I haven't made this dough for a long time, but for an expert, you can try a mixture of butter and vegetable.

I also noticed a much better result when combined with vegetable oil and butter. I've been doing this for so many years

Alya, what proportions do you use?
3. I don’t understand how oil 72.5 versus 82.5 is worse

to improve the proofing process

.
The percentage of water there is a little higher, yes, but this is not free water, but water in the composition of the emulsion. Well, in general, I don't know. For me, the advice for using 82.5% oil is pretty controversial. I myself always buy 72.5 - both in porridge and in baked goods.
4. vatruska,

Svetlana, 20 years ago I also read food chemistry to commodity experts and food technologists. Then tocopherols as emulsifiers were not mentioned anywhere. In general, our information about emulsifiers does not coincide, but both have "beards". Although Google talks about phosphatides and monoglycerides as industrially used emulsifiers. Maybe you experimented with the nutritional value of margarines in your diploma?

5. Somewhere we have already discussed this hydrogenation in the context of margarines, if I remember, I find, I will bring a link.

That's what I love, a clear detailed debriefing !!!

And a question on the topic.

I rarely make yeast dough.
Mainly shortbread and sour cream. They also have a mixture of oils (butter, vegetable) better ???
Or is this dough only creamy?

[vatruska]

The beast runs to the catcher! I came across an ad for margarine without hydrogenated fats.
vatruska, Svetlana, you are right - it was not without a palm tree:

Structure
Refined deodorized vegetable oils: sunflower, palm and its fractions, water, natural aroma.

Alya, what proportions do you use?

Most often in about a ratio of 2 parts butter to 1 part vegetable oil. I came to this proportion purely by experience. There may be better ratios, but I'm happy with the result of this mix.

[Creamy]

Creamy, Alya, what do you use for sand?

[Kokoschka]

Kokoschka, Lily, creamy 100% or 80% creamy + 20% lard. Thanks to the lard, the shortbread dough is very crumbly.

Thanks to the lard, the shortbread dough is very crumbly.

Alya, thanks, I'll try!

[Elena]

Maybe you experimented with the nutritional value of margarines in your diploma

No, we were shown them in a bag right at the factory
Elena, I will not argue here ... since years have passed ... during this time so many things have been "over-optimized" ... and the memory is full of holes - I'll blurt out ... what if it's not right? But on my diploma, I selected the ratio of solid and liquid phases, we even sculpted an oil cream based on this mixture. And they didn't buy oil for frying the whole semester - they fried it on my thesis By the way, it turned out great ... And the cream was delicious.
Girls from the Faculty of Bakery sculpted a parallel diploma on the topic "the dependence of the porosity and quality of bread on the recipe of the fat component." In general, my friend and I were kneading margarine, the girls were baking bread, after the tests, the result was halved!

I will not argue here ..

Joining

after analyzes - the result is halved

dependence of the porosity and quality of bread on the formulation of the fatty component. "

And there are no memories, which ratio was considered optimal?

[Elena]

Elena, unfortunately not, if only the drafts of the diploma were lying around somewhere ...
You see, initially they kneaded a mixture of hydro-fat + vegetable oil, then someone at the department got the idea to add another palm tree there - it just appeared in food production, so they tested the triple composition.Then someone else wanted butter cream - again the recipe was corrected, the fact is that if everything went OK for frying and baking, then an ambush appeared with the cream - a palm tree, when a certain concentration was reached, gave the smell of mud in the cream, and the same mixture when frying and baking, it did not give any additional aromas (but it did give a wonderful crust on potatoes). In general, in the end they gave two different recipes for baking and confectionery, got crusts ... and they threw everything far, far ...

during this time so many things were "over-optimized"

This is the problem.
That is, if 72% of the "butter" crumbles, then it is better to take it than what is unknown is soft? Or is this not an indicator? (in the store, it is unlikely that you will be able to try it differently, except to press).

As for baking, it seems to me that with vegetable fats or margarine, the finished product does not stale for longer, that's why I use margarine (for everything except yeast, it's just sunflower, it's easier to dose).

[Kubeba1]

Kubeba1, Natalia, roughly speaking - yes! If AFTER the FREEZER the butter with the declared low fat content "cries" and crumbles, there is a chance that it is NATURAL butter. If the so-called butter is based on palm or hydro-fat, it will not "cry" under any circumstances.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, vatruska, Thank you! And it seemed so strange to me that the declared "butter" crumbles ... Although the melted mutton fat also crumbles.

And when I was a student,

Damn: (And I've never been a student. And I don't even know what my wife is pushing into cupcakes, but I saw candy wrappers from the Polish "Donut" in a bucket.