Lactic sourdough wheat bread using the "old dough" method (basic recipe)

[Whole Grain Bread:]

Lactic sourdough wheat bread using the "old dough" method (basic recipe)

Category: Sourdough bread

Ingredients
Wheat flour	450 g
Whole grain wheat flour	50 g
Serum	325 g
Salt	9 g
Wheat sour milk ferment 100%	200 g

Cooking method

• Thanks to Olya (Olga VB), I have a lactic-sour ferment based on whey. Following her instructions, she began to bake. I was very surprised by the technology, because I have never met such a thing anywhere. But, due to the fact that I really like the result, in agreement with the author, I decided to bring it (technology) to the public with words of gratitude to Olya!
• What is the "wrong" technology - to use not a starter to activate the starter, but all the starter, plus all the liquid from the recipe and the same amount of flour. By analogy, I called this method the "old test" method. So,
• We take out a jar of sourdough from the refrigerator (200 g).
• We mix it with the entire volume of whey in the recipe (325 g). It is better to warm up the serum to 24C. It is convenient to mix with a whisk.
• Add 325 g of wheat flour, stir with a spoon until smooth.
• Separate 200 g of the starter culture for storage, close the lid and immediately put it in the refrigerator.
• Add the rest of the wheat flour (125 g) and all the whole grain flour (50 g) to the remaining dough, mix with a spoon or with your hands, cover the container and leave for 30-60 minutes for autolysis. It is more convenient to knead immediately in the container in which you will knead bread in the future.
• Over time, we begin to knead the bread. I knead in Ankarsrum for 5-7 minutes at medium speed. Whey may need to be added during the kneading process, depending on the moisture content of the flour used.
• Add salt and mix for about 3 minutes.
• Then put the dough on a greased silicone mat, fold in an envelope and put into a container greased with fermentation oil. Since this is J. Hamelman's recipe from the book "Bread. Technologies and Recipes", I followed his recommendations for fermentation, namely 2.5 hours with two strokes every 50 minutes.
• Then knead the dough, round, leave for 15 minutes.
• Then finally shape. Place either in a proofing basket or in a baking dish, cover and leave until 2.5-3 times increase. I deliberately do not write the time, since it is always different. Approximately 4 hours. I couldn’t succeed in less, but yes.) You can leave the dough for proofing in the refrigerator at 4C for up to 18 hours.
• If I bake a double portion, that is, the sourdough remains 200g, and everything else doubles, then the proving time increases to 5-6 hours.
• Before baking, you can make cuts, sprinkle with water.
• Bake in an oven preheated to 230C for about 30 minutes, then lower the temperature to 200C and bake until tender for about 15 minutes. The exact time depends on your oven.
• 
• It turns out very aromatic and, despite the lack of sugar in the recipe, sweet bread. It is also stored well, although it does not linger for more than two days.

Note

Any sourdough and yeast bread can be converted to this method. Here are some options (recipes from the same Hamelman book):

Whole Grain Bread:
Wheat flour 350 g
Serum 350 g +10 when kneading
Wheat flour TsZ 150
Salt 9





Bread with rye flour
Wheat flour 425 g
Serum 325 g + 2 tbsp. l. when mixing
Rye flour 150 g
Salt 9 g
Fermentation 2.5 hours with one kneading after 1.5 hours




Sourdough flatbread with olives using the "old dough" method (Omela)




Loaf with lactic acid sourdough using the "old dough" method (Omela)




Fried garlic bread using the "old dough" method (Omela)

Ksyusha, very beautiful bread. Thanks for the recipe. And where can you see how the sourdough itself is prepared? Thank you in advance.

[ninza]

ninza, Thank you! Olya answered me:

take the most ordinary eternal one, which is on water and wheat flour, but instead of water, use whey or another sour milk.

[Omela]

Omela, I want your bread ... when I get to Sergei (Olin's husband), for sourdough ...

[Omela]

Omela, thanks for sharing such an interesting method! And the acid from such a leaven is strongly felt in bread?

[Helen]

Helen, Lena, now you will definitely get there!))

Yuliya K, Julia, there is no acid at all. This is a fundamental question for me. I gave up the sourdough oven at one time, because I didn't like the result.

I gave up the sourdough oven at one time, because I didn't like the result.

So for the same reason I left the starter experiments ... Great news for me, so it's worth trying with whey!

[Yulia]

Yulia, probably there is some explanation, I don't know. Maybe at the expense of whey, maybe at the expense of using the amount of sourdough.) Try it, the taste is subjective.)

We take out a jar of sourdough from the refrigerator (200 g).
We mix it with the entire volume of whey in the recipe (325 g). It is better to warm up the serum to 24C. It is convenient to mix with a whisk.
Add 325 g of wheat flour, stir with a spoon until smooth.
Separate 200 g of the starter culture for storage, close the lid and immediately put it in the refrigerator.

Ksyusha, if you will, I will write as I do
I never know exactly how much sourdough I keep in the refrigerator, I suspect that this amount ranges from 150 to 250g.
When mixing, I just use all the starter available. I add to it the maximum possible equal amount of wheat flour and whey according to the recipe.
For example, if you focus on the numbers in your recipe, then it is 325g + 325g. But even here I don't try to measure everything perfectly. Because I pour whey straight into the bowl, then I can pour a little more or a little less, and I already pour the flour into the sieve exactly the same amount as the whey, - it’s easier to measure it out evenly there. Those. in my case it can be 322 + 322 or 340 + 340, - the main thing is that after mixing this flour and whey with all the sourdough, after setting aside the newly fed sourdough until the next time, 2x325 = 650g of sourdough or how much remains in the bowl for further dough preparation there according to the prescription.
Those. for storage, depending on how much flour and whey I initially added, a little more or a little less of the renewed sourdough is sent - the main thing is that there is as much left in the bowl.

I also do kneading and proofing a little differently in time, but this already refers to the technology of a particular recipe.
And I do not warm up the serum after the refrigerator, because when kneading, the dough is already heated.

It is believed that if you change the recipe even for one component by at least 5%, you will get a completely different result.
But in this case, no matter how much more or less the original starter culture, no matter how much more or less I add flour + whey to it, the result is very stable in taste.
In addition, whey is sometimes acidic on its own, and sometimes very acidic. And this also does not change the taste and does not add unnecessary sourness.

Good luck!

[Olga VB]

Olga VB, Olya, thanks for the clarification! Write about your fermentation and proofing. I am sure that your version will also be useful to many. Let everything be in one place!)

Ksyusha, there are no tricks there:
I mix the leaven and whey right from the refrigerator, I don't heat anything. I add flour, divide it into storage and knead, and immediately knead with all the ingredients, except for salt and fat. That is, the separately renewed leaven does not stand at all, neither the one that is sent back to the refrigerator, nor the one that goes into the dough.
The first batch is purely preliminary, to moisten all the flour.After this first kneading with everything, everything except salt and fat, if the recipe requires the development of gluten, that is, for almost all types of bread, I leave the dough for 15-20 minutes, depending on its amount.
Then I add salt, fat (if there is in the recipe) and put the kneading on for 12 minutes at medium speed, that is, the speed should be such that the dough under the hook has time to fold, and not dangle around the bowl with a meteor. In CM Kenwood, this speed is about "1".
If I add dry herbs to the dough, then this is at the very first stage, if the herbs are fresh, seeds, etc., then in 30-40-60 seconds. until the end of the batch.
Then the dough under the film is sent to the oven under a light bulb for 2 hours. At the same time, it increases by about 1.5-2 times.
Then shaping and proofing under a light bulb in the oven. Usually at least 4 hours.
I bake at T = 230 * C under a lid / with steam for the first 15-25 minutes (depending on the size of the cotton product), and 10-15 minutes without a lid / steam at 180 * C.

I promise to do it according to your technology, compare the result and report.
Good luck to all of us!

Oksan, I also made it) I made a sourdough in the sense that it turned out with half a kick. Baked already with seeds according to Hammelman, Lithuanian and your Norwegian yesterday. Since I did it in HP, I still put a drop of yeast. It does not sour, you will not believe))) Only I found out now what I was doing wrong, I had to mix the entire volume of liquid, which is according to the recipe, and I am just a part. In general, I did this - I took all the leaven from the refrigerator (I have 150 grams of it there) + 150 grams of whey + 150 flour, mixed, 150 in the refrigerator, from the rest I took as many grams of leaven as needed in the dough according to the recipe. In general, almost all the leaven was gone, the spoon might have been too much, I bake small loaves. In general, I'll try the next time you do it, so that it was exactly according to the technology))))

Before I forget, I'll ask - at what temperature is it stored in your refrigerator? Yesterday I baked, today I looked, and I rose so well in the bank, almost half. So I think, can I rearrange it on the shelf colder?

Zyyy Norwegian yours today my youngest liked, he walks around begging and cracking just like that, instead of a roll))

Natasha, hello. You even registered for such an occasion !!! Well done!) Stored on the refrigerator door. Sometimes it happens that the lid breaks off.) I am now controlling it, because I do not bake it yet. Recently I looked, but she fell out and water came out from above. I quickly refreshed and baked the pancakes on the leftover. and I liked it so much that now I do pancakes or pancakes once or twice a week. Soda. true, I add. so as not to wait. It turns out very aromatic and lush.
Serum is not always available now either, so I dilute organic yoghurt with natural water in water. Rises almost to the edges of the can.)
Your method can also be done. it will only depend on the time of the rise. And if you do it with yeast, it makes no difference at all.
I am very glad that you are finally not sour!))))

Oksan, yes, I’ve already trained recipes for myself in a storehouse, there’s a treasure trove of everything) In general, I understood you about the leaven and left you on a warm shelf))) By the way, I also thought that it was such a serum that I quickly started the leaven. And not sour, I think so precisely because of the technology. So far I put the yeast in order to fit the HP program, then I will try to make up the manual modes. While I got used to doing on the program for the central loaf of bread in Kenwood, first I mix the leaven with flour and whey, then I turn on the program, it goes on with a delay of half an hour, I fill up everything else and watch the process. Even my husband noted that the bread became different, it crumbles less and generally tastes good))) everything sour for him, too, like me. I think over time I will select manual modes so that I can do it on one leaven, so that everything is fair)))))

Yes, you can't bake the recipe here!))) You are good, that the recipe was adapted for HP. I, too, think to get my own (I survived that I even forgot its name😯). But now with this school it is generally sad with time.

I have been baking my own bread for 6 years already, I have tried hundreds of recipes, I stopped at the usual one with shivers. There were always different tastes. And now I bake the usual one with yogurt and a little bit of yeast. For 1 kg. 300 g of water, oil 2 tsp, salt 1 tsp, sugar 2 tsp (for an amateur), yogurt 1.5% 100g. (Not sweet sour or kefir 1.5%), flour 500-600g. , and 1 teaspoon without a slide of yeast at 3.45 excellent crispy bread. Optionally, you can add one egg or only the yolk. He then does not crumble. Bon Appetit.



I read somewhere in the messages that there is a spare form for bread, only what brand of bread baker I am looking for a form for a SAUTER 106401 hob-baker with two knives and the handles are not inside the edges. I ordered but it will come or not do not promise 100%. There is no guarantee for a long time the problem has ended !!! ... I worked without problems for three and a half years. The sleeve in the knife was worn out and fell out along with the screw.

[Alina Tom]

Alina Tom, on the forum a lot of information on the repair of HP, and according to different recipes, and on many other topics.
Perhaps there you will find your recipe and answers to many of your questions.
Good luck!

Lena, now you will definitely get there!))

I just got there yesterday ... now I'm with sourdough

[Olga]

Well, here I am with the first bread, on this leaven ... thanks, Olga! I thought that nothing would work ... after kneading, when I put it on the proofer, it seemed to me that the cake would not work ... but no, after the second ... and the third folding, he was already such a handsome man ... I got up in shape, although I stood at proofing for 3 hours ... yesterday in the night I baked, covered it up ... and went to bed ... this morning, I went to see and taste rather ... mmmmmmmmmm bread is a miracle, how delicious !!! Thank you GIRLS !!!!

[Elena]

Elena, great bread turned out! 👍👍👍

[Omela]

Omela, I just do not understand, by the amount of flour, where with rye flour !?

[Omela]

Bread with rye flour
Wheat flour 425 g
Serum 325 g + 2 tbsp. l. when mixing
Rye flour 150 g
Salt 9 g

Omela, Ksyusha, here I don’t understand the flour ... !!! ???