French starters

[Kapeliya777]

Kapeliya777

First check the temperature of the place where you keep the starter culture. Perhaps, when the season changes, it has decreased for you, and the leaven grows more slowly just because it is in a cooler "climate".

What are you covering the sourdough container with? Don't forget that she has to breathe. It should be either a perforated lid, gauze, or cling film. And do not forget to stir the starter culture several times with a fork to saturate it with oxygen. In this case, it becomes fluffy and airy.

If you are in complete order with all of the above, then you will have to grind the leaven. Thinning means feeding in the minimum permissible ratio of 1 to 1 (1 part of sourdough to 1 part of fresh dough, i.e. 50 g of sourdough + 25 g of flour + 25 g of water).
Wait until the sourdough ripens, at room temperature it usually takes 4 to 5 hours, then feed it again in a 1 to 1 ratio (I would take 100 g of sourdough + 50 g of flour + 50 g of water), let it ripen again, then a couple of times feed 100 g of sourdough. Usually, after several such "re-crushing" cycles, the maximum strength of the starter is achieved at its optimum acidity.
If her lifting force and tone start to be satisfied, then only then it will be possible to return to feeding in high proportions, that is, a scanty amount of sourdough for a large amount of fresh dough.

[RybkA]

RybkA

In appearance - an excellent sourdough turned out

If you are afraid to take bread right away, then you can first check the strength of the leaven and decide whether it is already suitable for bread.

Knead a little dough of regular consistency, add about 1/4 of the dough weight to the sourdough, knead, place in a measuring cup and observe how much the dough will rise in 5 hours. It will rise 2.5 times, you can send it to bread.

[Suslya]

Oh, something I'm confused
I was not ready at all! I didn't even have time to find a recipe
Throw in a proven option, plzhsta, but for now I'll probably go do as I wrote Suslya

you can feed for example 80-80-80 (if the recipe requires 200g of sourdough) and put it in bread.

[Kapeliya777]

Kapeliya777

By the way, it may also be such a thing that your flour is too wet, and the leaven turns out to be too liquid, so it lacks strength. Try not only by weight, but also by the appearance when feeding, so that the dough looks like a dough for pancakes. If it does not hold out, then knead it thicker.

[Suslya]

Oh, something I'm confused
I was not ready at all! I didn't even have time to find a recipe
Throw in a proven option, plzhsta, but for now I'll probably go do as I wrote Suslya

If you rush into battle right away, then try French with sourdough in a bread maker, it usually works without any problems, especially in Panasonic.

[Zest]

Zest, you read my thoughts !!! I just thought about French ...
Now in essence:
- what to do with yeast? How much to give? I give simple fresh 4-6g ...
- how much starter culture to take? Leave 20-30g ... more? And the rest of the oven?
And from the total weight of the remaining leaven of 1: 1 there will be flour water and from this, how much more water / flour is left to add?

[RybkA]

RybkA

- you know the strength of your simple fresh ones better than me. Therefore, estimate how much you would take them for the amount of flour that goes into French, and divide it in half, this amount will just be enough for the first time;

- you need to take the sourdoughs according to the recipe 200 g. You can calmly take and do everything as the Wort advised: 80 g of sourdough + 80 g of flour + 80 g of water, as it grows 2 times, send 200 g of sourdough to the bread according to the recipe, and the leftovers on the walls of the feed (you can start with 50 g of water + 50 g of flour);

- and with the sourdough that remained after cultivation, do not bother, throw away or bake pancakes, feed for breeding is what remains after feeding on French bread.

Girls a huge THANKS !!! for tips, the flour can really be wet (only from the street it arrived and immediately into battle) during ripening it never stirred with a fork, covered with a lid (probably tightly) the temperature was about 20 degrees, in my opinion there were no jumps in temperature. I'll try to take into account all the comments and see what happens. Thanks again!!!!

[Viki, Zest, kava]

Viki, Zest, kava
Girls, please tell me which is better: increasing the feeding ratio or keeping the starter culture a little bit hungry?
Can I get it to feed once a day?
At home it is warm (25-26 *), on the loggia 12 * at night, in the refrigerator it is cold, the windows are metal, so they are warm, it does not blow anywhere. And the leaven grows and requires feeding after 12 hours.

[lana7386]

lana7386

We will not starve you with hunger, otherwise the leaven will grow angry and will surely win back on the quality of the bread.

You have an excellent temperature on the loggia for storing the sourdough, you can just envy. With this, you can feed it once every three days. In the afternoon, the temperature on the loggia rises to how many degrees?

In any case, the best storage option at this stage is a loggia. Feed in the usual proportions, but before putting it out in the cold (10-12 * C), let it stand for an hour or two at room temperature so that the "process starts", and then move it out of the house.

Then, as usual, stir several times during the ripening process, and when it reaches the maximum, you are ready. At this temperature, the ripening process will be significantly extended, and you will be relieved of the need for unnecessary feeding.

Warm the starter culture to room temperature before use.

[lana7386]

lana7386

We will not starve you with hunger, otherwise the leaven will grow angry and will surely win back on the quality of the bread.

You have an excellent temperature on the loggia for storing the sourdough, you can just envy. With this, you can feed it once every three days. In the afternoon, the temperature on the loggia rises to how many degrees?

Zest
During the day, the temperature on the loggia is 22-23 *, since it is 12-13 * on the street, and both doors to the loggia from the apartment are open, the south side, the sun warms At night it drops to ... now 17 *, and on the street 10 *. I need to buy a good thermometer to know for sure. I'm afraid it might freeze in the morning.
I understood everything, thanks for the detailed answer and explanations I went to feed

[lana7386]

lana7386

The minimum temperature at which you can store the starter culture without harming lactic acid bacteria is + 10-12 * C, so as long as the temperature does not drop below this mark, your starter culture will not freeze.

In the summer I kept it in a cellar at + 15 * C, I managed to reduce the feeding to one in 1.5-2 days. You will need to be guided by the behavior of the leaven in order to catch a certain regularity in feeding

[Zest]

Girls, THANKS you very much for your support and endless explanations, for me it is very valuable!
I put some French bread ... I'm waiting ...
I washed and fed the leftovers 50 + 50, put them in a box ...
Where are we going to live? There are no ideal conditions, there is, as always, a refrigerator and it is possible on a cold stone windowsill, I think + 18 * there.
Zest, what does it mean to feed 50:50 to start

residues on the walls of the feed (you can start with 50 g of water + 50 g of flour

[lana7386]

lana7386

You will need to be guided by the behavior of the leaven in order to catch a certain regularity in feeding

I, as a mother who gave birth late, am afraid for the child. She came to me so well, without problems, difficulties, so I am afraid to harm inadvertently.
But you have added knowledge and confidence to me, thanks. We will live on.

[RybkA]

RybkA The zest is already resting, I will explain, your starter culture has just been born, you should not immediately give large proportions for feeding, this can weaken it, increase the food gradually. Today it is 50-50, tomorrow you can give 80-80, and so on. Thus, the gap between feedings will increase.

The bread turned out to be very good! The height is like dry yeast, not very high, but it tastes good. I got it at night. In the morning I got up, and 1/3 is gone, my husband got up to smell at night and ate a little. I can't take a photo yet, the camera's battery has run out.
The sourdough grew 2.5 times overnight. She stood at the half-open window, on the cold windowsill, but still grew up. Before, after all, it was on the battery.
As I understand it, either I bake again, or again part in the toilet and feed?
How long can you wait?

If there is a desire, as they say, "bake Shura, bake", and if not required, then feed 10 grams in a large proportion, since she is such an active girl, you can give 100-100, and in a cool place. As it rises, mix well and again in the chill, you can hold out until tomorrow. Somewhere on the previous pages Zest described this method.

Also tell me, pzhlsta, how to understand how much leaven I need, for example, for 500 g of flour?

Here I put bread on 550g of flour, but I only have 90g of sourdough. Usually I give live yeast 8g, now I put half of it, 4g, and I think maybe a little?
Yesterday there was 200g of sourdough + 3g of yeast per 400g of flour, it turned out fine ...

In general, how to do the calculation?

For me, the optimal combination is 400g. flour, 400 g of sourdough and 200 g of water. So for 500 g of flour, 500 g of sourdough and 250 g of water comes out. And even if there is dough in the recipe, then I replace it with sourdough.
90 gr. sourdough, of course, this is not enough, if you introduce it into the dough, then subtract 45 gr from the total amount of flour. and from water the same.

[Suslya]

And even if there is dough in the recipe, then I replace it with sourdough.

Suslya
Did I understand you correctly that the basis of the dough is sourdough? Then, based on the recalculations of flour and water in the dough, the amount of sourdough is adjusted. Are you leaving some for flour and liquid, or are you replacing everything with sourdough?

Everything is correct. Based on the amount of flour and water in the dough, I calculate the amount of leaven. For example: 150 grams of water and 150 grams of flour go to the dough, so I take 300 grams. sourdough. But if 250 grams of flour and 200 grams of water go into the dough, then I take 400 grams of sourdough, and add the missing 50 grams of flour to the amount of flour that goes into the dough.

[Zest]

what to do - the gas station is sold out, do not stop ... rises 3-3.5 times

Zest - I strictly adhered to the instructions .. at first, when it increased in volume by 2 times, I stirred it .. on the trail. increase - fed 1: 100: 100 (before mixing in smaller proportions)

and then in the morning she fed her 100 - so in the evening she almost got out of the bank ... I stirred it - and she again ...

Should I feed her or not?

actually I'm glad she's so active, I'm just at a loss what to do

PS ZestThank you for your congratulations!!

Zest, sorry for not returning immediately with an answer. I made sourdough and baked bread once. Probably it was not very strong yet, but yeast was also needed according to the recipe. And I washed the leftovers, as I wrote, but obviously, as always, I got into a mess. Then she stood neither alive nor dead, then I again left a little on the walls and added 25 grams of flour and did not measure the water. but I know that it was much less and I got a gruel as thick as pancakes, and then it came to life and rose well, now for the night I put it on the street where + 14 + 15 and fed again 25 flour and a little water.
my attachment option suddenly disappeared. Does anyone know how to fix this? I turned to the administration but did not receive an answer.

we take from her 110 gr. add 110 gr. water 40 * C and beat with a fork until foam is obtained:
And someone measured how much it is, for example, in measuring spoons or something else ... sorry, maybe for a stupid question. I ask in view of the absence of scales.

[Zest]

I want to try one of the recipes in the oven, but not very difficult. Desirable NOT white, but not required. Zest, you everywhere give photos and links to LJ, of a certain lady, but it is impossible to get there, I have even registered, but to no avail. Help, pzhlsta ...

we take from her 110 gr. add 110 gr. water 40 * C and beat with a fork until foam is obtained:
And someone measured how much, for example, in measuring spoons or something else ...maybe forgive me for the stupid question. I ask in view of the lack of weights.

In a glass 240 ml of premium flour 150g.

In a glass 240 ml of premium flour 150g.

I know about a glass and flour, but 110 g of sourdough at the stage of its preparation? Maybe someone measured in "some kind of dish" besides the scales?

[Natay]

Natay I loosen up 50 to 50, and these are two tablespoons with a slide + - just a little more.

[Natay]

Natay I loosen up 50 to 50, and these are two tablespoons with a slide + - just a little more.

Thanks for the answer! At the first stage, I did just that (I took half of the rye mixture) I added water and wheat flour, 12 hours have passed again I need to add water and flour, and again I have a question - take 110 grams of this mixture 50X50? It seemed to me that it became more than rye, or rather, it did not seem more

[Zest]

I want to try one of the recipes in the oven, but not very difficult. Desirable NOT white, but not required. Zest, you everywhere give photos and links to LJ, of a certain lady, but it is impossible to get there, I have even registered, but to no avail. Help, pzhlsta ...

To Lyudmila, this is the very lady, it is impossible to get in, only those who are her friends can

And try the bread in the oven, your favorite Izyuminkin (I'll tell you a secret, and mine too) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11837.0

[Natay]

NatayTake a couple of tablespoons from this mixture, add 50 ml of water and 2 tbsp. tablespoons (approximately 50 grams) of flour. If you take the whole mixture, then you have 110 gr. it then needs to be fed 1 to 1, that is, 110 g of water and the same amount of flour. Why do you need so much, unless, of course, you will bake bread in which, according to the recipe, you need two hundred grams of sourdough. If you are just growing it, then Vicky has very well described the process of making French sourdough.

I understood the process, I just grow the sourdough, I had a question 110 g from it (when growing), how much is it in spoons, for example? Sorry for the silly questions, I'm new to bakery and don't have a scale

[Natay]

NatayI am embarrassed to answer, when I just started working with leaven, I measured everything on the scales, and now, as I described it to you.

[Suslya]

To Lyudmila, this is the very lady, it is impossible to get in, only those who are her friends can

And try the bread in the oven, your favorite Izyuminkin (I'll tell you a secret, and mine too) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11837.0

Suslya, with this LJ everything is clear to me Izyuminkin bread I have already found, I'll go read ... Thank you!

Back at the beginning of the topic Viki advises to feed the sourdough a couple of times idle... What does it mean? We plant it, feed it, wait for it to rise twice, stir it, feed it again and so on a couple of times?

[RybkA]

RybkAbelow I quote the words of Vicki
PS is good - it would be better to feed it 2-3 times more "empty" before putting bread dough on it. Feed every 5-7 hours to make sure that the leaven perfectly raises the dough 4 times in 5-7 hours at room T at 27-28C. At this stage, it is already possible to drastically reduce the amount of sourdough with which you work, well, to 10-20 grams ...
That is, Vicki means the extension of the growing period of the starter culture by another 2-3 "extra" dressings (every 5-7 hours to make sure that the starter culture perfectly raises the dough 4 times in 5-7 hours at room T at 27- 28C.)

[Natay]

NatayTake a couple of tablespoons from this mixture, add 50 ml of water and 2 tbsp. tablespoons (approximately 50 grams) of flour. If you take the whole mixture, then you have 110 gr. it then needs to be fed 1 to 1, that is, 110 g of water and the same amount of flour. Why do you need so much, unless, of course, you will bake bread, in which, according to the recipe, you need two hundred grams

The bread recipe belongs to Anne Thibault.
Italian bread with liquid sourdough

190g ripe liquid starter culture, room T
Here is just this recipe and I want
And another question - where is it usually stored? I understand that in order to maintain vital activity, you need to feed her every day? And how long does she even live? The link at the beginning of the post does not work. Maybe there is another?

And another question - where is it usually stored? I understand that in order to maintain vital activity, you need to feed her every day? And how long does she even live?

Optimum T * storage 10-12 * C, the refrigerator is not very suitable.
I realized that you need to feed as much as you ask, from someone once, from someone twice a day. The more flour / water you feed, the less often you will be asked to eat, provided that the optimal T * is observed.
It will live as long as it will be in demand, but the recommended period is 6 months.
This is my understanding of the vitality of the leaven, if anything, let me be corrected.

I understand that if you need to leave for a couple of days, will you need to feed her with a large amount? And how to understand what she asks to eat?

I understand that if you need to leave for a couple of days, will you need to feed her with a large amount? And how to understand what she asks to eat?

If you leave her for two days she will starve to death.

If you leave her for two days she will starve to death.

Not certainly in that way. ;) It will peroxide - this is unambiguous, but for a couple of dressings it will be possible to bring it "to the senses" by softening it in very large proportions (for example, 10g of sourdough: 100 g of water: 100 g of flour). You can move it to the refrigerator for these 2 days (if there is at least 10 *) and add a little salt (this will slow down acidification)

And to understand that the leaven wants to eat is easy! It will fall, the bubbles will become small and will taste sour

kava and thank you all for the answers. Where do you usually store the leaven? Now it is possible on the balcony, but soon it will get colder and in summer the balcony disappears in the refrigerator 3-5 degrees ...

I store it in a refrigerator bag, with one accumulator of "cold", the second in the freezer is waiting for its turn. +15 in the bag. I change the battery in the morning and in the evening.

[Natay]

Natay, you try it, you will like it! On the weekend, it’s in the morning we left on Saturday, on Sunday evening we arrived. Quite a normal schedule.

[Suslya]

I store it in a refrigerator bag, with one accumulator of "cold", the second in the freezer is waiting for its turn. +15 in the bag. I change the battery in the morning and in the evening.

Suslya
When storing starter culture in a cooler bag, how often do you feed the starter culture?
I think you have it: "washes from the container" + 100g flour + 100g water? Or another? Do you hold it for a while before putting it in the bag? Thank you

Got a question. I make a French sourdough for the traditional pain au levain bread. The recipe is true not from the beginning of the topic, but another - 114 grams of water and 114 grams of a 50/50 mixture of whole grain and bakery wheat flour, add the same amount every day. On the 4th day, the sourdough began to flake slightly - a more liquid layer floats on top than below. Is this normal or not?

[Suslya]

Suslya
When storing starter culture in a cooler bag, how often do you feed the starter culture?
I think you have it: "washes from the container" + 100g flour + 100g water? Or another? Can you hold it for a while before putting it in your bag? Thank you

I feed the leaven once a day. Usually this happens in the morning, in order to slow down the growth process, I put it in a bag, in the evening I mix it with a fork, precipitate it and put it back for storage. If I bake bread, then the scheme is the same as you wrote, "wash + 100 and 100", if I don't bake, then I have to take a spoon, and throw the rest away, it's a pity, of course, but what to do. After feeding, I let it stand for an hour, so that the process would start, until the first bubbles, so to speak, and send it to my bag.
Xevus , I have never stratified the leaven, so we are waiting for a senior in rank - Viki , she will tell you what to do.

[kava]

kava, please tell me. Last night I put in the leaven (as it was indicated in the first post), today I took 110 g from it and threw out the rest. Or shouldn't I have thrown it away?

We must, we did everything right.

[Suslechka]

Suslechka, thanks for the answer, it immediately became somehow better. And then I generally wanted to go to bed, and then in my head as it will give "STARVE IS NOT FEEDED !!!!"
It's good that I remembered. This is my feathery ...

[tatulya]

tatulya, follow the instructions strictly and you will happiness leaven. We throw it away mercilessly, everything except 110 g

And then I generally wanted to go to bed, and then in my head as it will give "STARVE IS NOT FEEDED !!!!"

This is probably the case for all leaveners