French starters

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1, do everything right! Basja right, you can take less leaven. Any quantity convenient for you. The only thing I insist on is how much leaven - the same amount of water and flour. That is: 100 gr. sourdough = 100 gr. water + 100 gr. flour.

viki well, finally you are here, I just don’t know what to do.
I showed my initiative, all the same, I liquidated your leaven (as you remember, I started it from the MK leaven), it is less active, and I liked MISHA the leaven more in terms of activity, I separated it from it
100gr. + 100h. + 100m.

feed so that after 12 hours and in the same proportions?

so I rushed about, roofing felts 300g. to feed not to reduce the leaven roofing felts 50-100gr .. take as you wrote earlier.

Viki writing a report
all the same, I felt sorry for the leaven that I made according to your recipe to throw away, after an hour I changed my mind and decided to experiment on it and change the flour.
The temperature on the windowsill is 26-27 °, the heating heats up from the bottom.

from left to right (2 and 3 are according to your recipe)

1.it Mishina added premium flour with spelled
2.the same premium flour with spelled
3.to this one I added in equal proportions (25 + 25g.) Whole grain flour + 2 varieties

In 2 hours I will attach another photo.
Viki what should I do next, like my starters

1st photo after 6 hours of feeding
2nd photo after 8 hours of feeding
I didn’t take the third photo after 12 hours of feeding, because it didn’t rise anymore and began to fall off.
It was PIK.

Fine!!!
One more feeding (as a safety net) and by the morning we should get a fully functional leaven. In a 1: 1: 1 ratio at room temperature, it doubled in 8 hours - it means that it will live and work! And tomorrow it should double in 8 hours.
Pick up a recipe. It will be possible to arrange a test!

Viki great
then after 12 o'clock I can take 50x50x50 and try to bake bread tomorrow.
Whatever recipe you recommend to feel bread with this sourdough.

[Iziuminkin French with sourdough]

If in a bread maker, it works well Iziuminkin French with sourdough

Whatever recipe you recommend to feel bread with this sourdough.

We clarify - will we bake in the oven? Then I would take 2 tbsp today. spoons of sourdough and put the dough on "Iziuminkin favorite". I like it very much and the master class in the topic is excellent!
And if in HP, then kava is 100% right.

Viki-kava thanks, of course in the oven, I like it better, it tastes better.
it is here. Yes?
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...11837.0

Viki and what should I do with the 3rd yeast, do not feed them further

Viki what is bakery flour.?

I still don't understand, but the temperature is lower after 15-20 minutes. don't you need to do

bake the first 15-20 minutes. at a temperature of 220-230 * C under a lid, the rest of the time until cooked without a lid.

Is he!
Difficult to advise when it comes to choice .... I would choose the one that is more active.
I will look forward to the result. Good luck !!!!

Viki I will add to you in the previous letter
I still have such a question, but if, for example, after 12 hours, the leaven has not yet begun to fall off, is it necessary to feed it or is it better to wait until it starts to fall off?

Viki and what is bread flour.?
I still don't understand, but the temperature is lower after 15-20 minutes. don't you need to do

I don’t know about you, but our premium flour is subdivided into bakery, confectionery and general purpose flour.
There is no need to reduce the temperature of this bread. You will see for yourself when you remove the lid, the temperature in the oven will drop, do not be alarmed, it will smoothly be typed back. This baking method has already been tried and tested many times.

to feed or is it better to wait until it starts to fall?

I don't let mine fall. In general, I feed as soon as it doubled, well, maybe a little more. In the summer she fed every 8 hours.

Viki did not take the third photo after 12 hours of feeding, because she no longer rose and began to fall off. It was PIK.

I still have a question: Kava showed me her sourdough in the picture, but mine does not have some sort of draginess, bubbling sourdough (I don’t know how to explain this).
Maybe still young.

mine does not have some kind of pulling, bubbling leaven (I don’t know how to explain this).

Maybe young, BUT ..... We have different quality of flour. Let's take this into account. The sourdough can be active and lift the bread very well without "pulling".
If you wish, you can feed part of the sourdough so that you get the consistency of bread dough and then you will see how active it is.

part of the sourdough can be fed so as to obtain the consistency of bread dough

What is it like?
I'm interested in trying different things.

What is it like?

For 20 gr. starter cultures - 100 gr. flour and 50 gr. water. Knead well. There are only hands. The dough will turn out plump. We put it in a jar and watch it. How much it will double, triple, etc.

I did not read something in this thread.
And what will it lead to, and until when should you watch until it stops growing?
And what can this give me? (Sorry, maybe stupid questions), but I should know what this is all about

I need to know what this is all about

This will show if the leaven will lift the bread. Will she have enough strength.

Viki sourdough rose just a little bit, I turned off the heating at night, the temperature was 20 °. Now I put it on the windowsill and incl. heating 28 ° and the process immediately started. Another question, but there is no sugar in the recipe, is that correct?

That's right, there is no sugar in this recipe. In general, in many recipes it is not. Good luck with your bread

[Flour]

Viki thank you very much for your help, in my opinion I understood what are the reasons for the poor growth of the leaven Flour.
I did it with the dough, here is my bread for your sourdough,
I have no words
Went a bow to Zest and do gratitude

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1, well, thank goodness you finally got your sourdough out. The bread is super. And the thing, after all, was in the flour, as I expected.

kava thanks for your support, I always bake on it, but I could not even think that it would not be suitable for sourdough.

Girls, I baked today Simple, tasty, fragrant, but does not "explode", as Zisinka says. Baked bread, but still not as high as we would like
I took the recipe from here This is how I got it
And this is a cut

The leaven seems to be strong, like this
... I just can't figure out where my punctures are.
Yesterday I baked exactly the same bread, the only one, only smaller, since I had only 250 grams of sourdough, and, accordingly, I adjusted all the other ingredients, So the loaf turned out to be much higher
of today's

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1, Oooh !!! what bread, bread, your worries were not in vain, I also join you and once again want to thank Vicky and Zest for not getting tired of explaining what and how to do

Basja, thank you too for your participation, by the way, at the moment we have the same
number of messages, congratulations

[Basja]

Basja, Tatjanka_1, what bread turned out! Sightseeing!

Tatjanka_1, with the firstborn!

Viki thanks, it's thanks to you
I have a question, if I want less acidity from the sourdough in the bread, what I need to do.

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1, your task is not to stand until the dough falls off. Take it "into business" a little earlier. How much earlier I will not say, here it is necessary to determine empirically. I generally take it in batch as soon as it doubled.

Vika, my leaven spent the night on the balcony today, and in the morning I saw that the temperature there was 9-10 degrees, it did not disappear, that is, lactic acid bacteria, wild yeast, as I understand it hardly?
And another question, I bake bread, I like it very much, according to Lyudmila's recipe, Italian.Proofing in a basket, then turn it over onto baking paper (do you need baking paper) and put the bed in a hot wok right with the paper, spray with water from a spray bottle and cover with a lid, after 10-15 minutes I spray again and after another 10 minutes I remove the lid. I bake 200-220 degrees, at the end I reduce to 180. The result of the cuts does not diverge, the crust is hard and thick, but the bubbles inside are wonderful, large, pleasant rubberiness, the taste is excellent, that is, the problem is in the crust, how to fix it?

[Skate]

Skate, and what are the cuts on Italian bread, is the dough in the same place completely? Have you read the recipe carefully? Look at Misha, we have such bread on the forum.

I used this recipe from Lyudmila's magazine:
Italian bread with liquid sourdough
190g ripe liquid starter culture, room T
420g flour
1 tsp instant yeast
360g water, 40C
1 tbsp. l. olive oil
Stir, give 20 minutes of autolysis, then knead with a spatula in a mixer at medium-high speed until the dough grabs into a soft, silky ball that does not stick to the sides of the bowl. Pour in fine salt, add oil drop by drop and finish kneading the dough.

40min fermentation or until it doubles to two and a half times in volume, in a lightly oiled bowl.
Shape the bread, touching with the greatest care so that no gas bubbles in the dough fall off.
Proofing for 40 minutes under the foil.
Baking for 25 minutes at 500F-450F, with steam humidification for the first 10 minutes of baking.

though flour had to be added.
Indeed, nothing has been written about the cuts, but I did them. The dough is indeed very liquid and it is very difficult to shape it into bread, I sprinkle the mold abundantly with corn flour and sprinkle the top with corn flour before dropping it out of the basket.

[Skate,]

Skate, look at here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...f&Itemid=26&topic=13642.0

For kneading Italian bread, I use, like Misha, KM Kenwood. True, the girls tried it in the bread maker. The dough should be so liquid, I first reduced the water, then stopped. I distribute it directly on paper, abundantly sprinkled with corn flour, you don't need to sprinkle it on top, well, you don't need to try to make cuts either, it won't work.
And molding it will not work very well either, I pour a little butter on the table, dump the dough and fold it with my hands to the center from the edges - the dough spreads, I sort of collect it in a pile. And immediately on paper.
I bake on stone. The crust is excellent.

I sprinkle the top because I turn the basket over and what was on top becomes the bottom, but I cannot oven on the hearth, there is no stone.

So you don't need it in the basket. On paper, spaced and stove.

himichka, thanks for the help and the link, this is exactly the recipe, though another source.

[skate]

skate, I bake Italian as well as himichka. I distribute it right on paper. No cuts. But there is no problem with the crust. Cancel the second spatter. If the oven is under a lid, it is not needed. Sprayed, covered, after 10 - 15 minutes the lid was removed and let it bake.

Girls, I understand correctly:
paper in a mold, proofing, transfer to a heated wok?

paper in a mold, proofing, transfer to a heated wok?

In the form? At a certain time .... I put it in a frying pan and it's fine.

In the form? At a certain time .... I put it in a frying pan and it's fine.

Vika, I'm sorry I didn’t understand, that is, you put it directly into the pan, you put it there, and then bake it there.

My dough is liquid, so that it does not spread over the paper - paper into a frying pan (small, the main thing is the sides), on paper dough:

tuck the edges of the paper:

a bag on top and tips under a frying pan. It turns out a very funny construction:

Then I take it by the ends of the paper and, as in a "cradle", I transfer it to a heated WOK.
The photo is not Italian. It is thinner.

Vika thank you very much, she explained everything so clearly and clearly, especially for the gifted. This is how I tried to make the first bread, and then a proofing basket appeared and I wanted to be in it.
And do not sprinkle the paper with flour and smear with anything, I did not succeed, all the flour was poured down

Viki in my refrigerator I have a place where T-11 °, what time I can not feed the starter culture, so that nothing happens to it.

[soooo crispy]

Vika, himichka, thank you very much. With your help, this is what I got.

From the top, the roof is not even because the cover is low and the dome stuck when the cover was removed, a piece fell off.

It is not with such big holes as the previous ones, but taste…. excellent, pleasant rubberiness and soooo crispy crust.
I am delighted. Itself in the morning ate a quarter of the bread, without anything.

[skate]

skate - well done!!! Bread is a feast for the eyes, and a crust is a delight !!! And holes are a real deal. The longer you knead it, the fewer large holes there are. .... I ate a quarter - you are something modest.
Tatjanka_1, if there is such a place in the refrigerator - it's very good! I offer two options for the development of events:
1. Feed, keep at room temperature for 3 hours (so that the starter culture begins to function) and refrigerate for 24 hours. We take it out, let it warm up for at least an hour, and refresh it.
2. We feed, keep for 1 hour and refrigerate for 72 hours. (less, but not more), take out, warm up for an hour (more, but not less) and refresh.
In the refrigerator, it will still ripen, but slowly.
You can feed by reducing the amount of sourdough. For example: 5 or 10 or 20 gr. sourdough for 50 - 100, etc. flour and the same amount of water.
Refresh - the same as we feed, but in small proportions. If the starter culture is 100 grams, then at least 50 grams. add water and flour. After 3.5 - 4 - 4.5 hours, she is ready for "battle".

thanks Viki

Thank you! Do you know how nice it is to see your bread and feel your involvement ?!
You know, I would still feed every day. I would keep her 50 - 100 grams and feed her daily. Why risk lactic acid bacteria, because they fall asleep in the cold, and not everyone wakes up, and this is the aroma of our leaven.

[skate]

skate - well done!!! Bread is a feast for the eyes, and a crust is a delight !!! And holes are a real deal. The longer you knead it, the fewer large holes there are. .... I ate a quarter - you are something modest.

There is indeed a lot of kneading, because I missed adding salt and oil and had to start kneading from the beginning.
A quarter is a lot for me, given my size.

This is the result of my suffering yesterday in Italian bread. He kept his shape during the proofing, there was hope until the last, but in the oven it burst ugly (it took a long time, it increased a lot, I don't even know what it pulled like that) it didn't work out for me.

Girls, I'm somehow dissatisfied with my grape leaven, now I'm wondering if I should bring out the Frenchwoman.
Tell me, do you really need malt?
If so, is wheat suitable?

If you have rye flour (black flour), then you can do it, but it is better to use rye malt.