Newbie's Choice: Panasonic vs Midea

Good evening everyone!
I would like to ask for help and advice on buying a bread machine. I looked at the forum, there is no comparison of the models I liked. I understand that the question is partly stupid - there are no ideal things, and users who have tested a dozen brands "on themselves" for sure too ... But can any of the experienced bakers point out the points that I lose sight of.
About skills and habits: I had nothing to do with bread makers before, my acquaintances, too. However, the "store" bread does not please a sick stomach at all, especially unbaked, sour and stale. So I decided to eat what I would at least know the composition of.
From the information I have read, I am very confused by the complexity (for a beginner) of working with a bread maker, the abundance of products necessary for some recipes (I haven’t been puzzled yet, but I doubt that it’s easy to find malt, good yeast, etc. on sale) and especially the duration - I I'm not sure if I can spend 6 hours on "dancing with a tambourine." Maybe then you shouldn't mess with the purchase at all?
Needs: Bread, preferably light and airy, like the one in this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=123528.0 How important is the number of programs in HP? For example, if there is no "sweet pastry" - then it will not work, at least how perverted?
You also need dough for dumplings. Here is a separate question - how much can it be mixed at one time in HP? Does it make sense to buy exactly HP for this, or is frequent kneading of a sufficiently dense dough is a direct way to ditch the stove as soon as possible?
Options: 1) of course Panasonic. There are SD-2510 and 2500 from look / feel in the store. They differ, as I understand it, by the functions of "wheat bread, muffin and baguette". How important are these functions and how can you even bake a baguette in HP?!? I am attracted by the established good reputation, the book of recipes. Dislikes: plastic (it will surely plow when heated), size (it is high), adding water last (it will not work to fix a thick "bun"). Well, the price for the possible option "played, but not mine" is too high.
2) Midea AHS15BC or EHS10AH. I read that there is a useless recipe book. But it is smaller in height, one of the options has a metal body, more power (maybe the oven will be faster?), Water is poured first (as far as I understand, joints in terms of "lack of flour" are easier to fix?), The coating of the bucket looks like nothing worse than Panasonic's. And the price for the "first toy" is more acceptable. True, one message that the coating completely peeled off the scapula over time was upsetting ((This happens with HP (especially because of sugar in the jam) or is it a marriage?
Accordingly, I would like to receive advice on the following questions: “Is it worth it to buy CP or loaves and buns in the oven easier to bake? How laborious and time-consuming is the process - the main thing is to adapt, and then everything will go faster, or at least what kind of pro are you, every time everything is different? Does it make sense to start with a proven and expensive model - two times the price difference = two times the quality of components, or is it not so simple? How important is it to have detailed instructions and a recipe book - is it really difficult without them, or will you still have to experiment because of the difference in gluten in flour and other nuances? "
I would also like to ask about the durability of the HP as such - the coating of the bucket, its integrity in terms of "leaks", the repair capability of the HP (sometimes it is cheaper to buy a new thing than to repair it). Most HP work according to the "traditional" principle now - death in a couple of months after the end of the one-year warranty? Or are there more reliable options?
I will be glad to any constructive answers, advice and comments)

If you have a good oven, try it first.
of the additional equipment, only a cast-iron frying pan is needed (replacement for a baking stone).
Last year I also wanted HP - I came here, read it and settled on the oven. True, I can knead with my hands or I take Reinharat's recipes - no fuss, and the bread is super
In addition, a loaf, pies, buns will still have to be baked in the oven.

Thank you very much Brena for the advice! And what are these "Reinharat recipes"? The oven is ordinary, it bakes well, but it is somehow unproductive to drive it because of one loaf. On the part of "kneading itself" there are some problems, although not so big as to buy only a kneader for 10 sput. )) The shape of the bread is not important for me, if only it was tasty. One of the colleagues was treated by a relative once with bread from KhP - I really liked it. But recently I asked her - it turned out that HP no longer bakes, it only kneads ((

Before buying Panasonic, I bought the cheapest CP, which kneaded the dough and baked. She worked faithfully for 6 years. When baked in the oven, when in the HP itself. The dough for pies never turned out with my hands, but here it went by itself. And on dumplings and muffins. And only the spent resource of my old lady pushed me to buy a more modern HP. So you can buy the one for the money. I don't think it will get any worse. Moreover, for most of the HP models, the site has something to read, and moreover, there is someone to ask.

Thanks to Fifanya for the advice! I am inclined to buy Midea - seemingly pleasant, in reviews on YandexMarket they praise, and if "not mine" or I manage to break it, it will not be as sorry as the expensive Panasonic (for six months of thinking about "how much can you spoil your stomach with store sour food" it has risen in price almost 2 times). They stop 3 unspecified questions: 1) will the cheaper HP start to shed quickly (eating Teflon is also somehow not useful) and leak; 2) does it make sense to make dough for dumplings in HP if you only get a tiny bun at a time; 3) how difficult is it to adapt to HP, having stupid instructions on hand with zero skills? And then I will ruin my stomach even more with an ugly concoction))

VENIKA, did you consider the kneader?
The advantage of the bread machine is that it bakes itself, that is, you can load the food and leave, as well as put the baking on a delayed start. If these moments are not important for you, then consider a kneader. You will bake in the oven, in the form in which you see fit.

Thanks to Elena Bo for the idea! But I'm afraid it doesn't suit me very well. The dough mixer (more precisely, the dough mixing function) is on the combine, although the result is somehow not very pleasant to me. The oven in the oven, as it seems to me, is needed in large quantities, and certainly not in a day - otherwise it turns out to be a "gun on sparrows" (but in general - it will be necessary to look how much energy the oven eats). I won't eat a lot of bread at once, but it's not tasty to eat stale bread. “Load and leave” sounds tempting, but with our substation it’s risky - it’s okay if the power goes off, or it may burn out (((Although you need to think about the option “put on the night” ...

From my point of view, a bread maker is a way to get delicious bread or dough without doing anything. I have an old Panasonic, I'm not overjoyed. There is no sweet pastry program, I don’t know how it differs from ordinary pastries, as pastries are baked in the usual mode. In the recipe book, all the recipes are verified, there were no punctures. I have even tried whatever pizza dough I have tried, but from the recipe book I like it the most. No dancing with tambourines: about 5 minutes for laying food, after 4 hours wonderful bread is ready. I put it at night, in the morning you wake up from this !!! aroma! French bread is baked for 6 hours. The hardest part with a bread maker is waiting for the bread to get cold. In my oven, dough for dumplings is done a little at a time, but since the program runs for only 20 minutes, I take out a batch and immediately knead another one.There are no problems with rye bread either, malt is not a problem to buy, even if it is not there, then kvass wort is everywhere. I have now started baking bread in the oven, it is definitely even better, but it costs more in time, so I love the bread maker and do not intend to part with it yet. After even bread-baking bread from the store, I don't feel like eating, I generally keep quiet about the oven.

Thank you very much Maryka for the opinion of an experienced baker! And the old Panasonic is what model? And who made it? Because, for example, old German household items from Bosh and what is now in the store are VERY different things. I don’t mind any money for a good thing, but about where is good, and where is one old reputation and advertising, I can’t figure it out.It’s like with a waffle iron - I love waffles, but I won’t beg to sell my old colleague, waffles in new ones with Teflon (those that I tried) - terrible, unfinished muck, and without Teflon they now seem to be simply NO ((

My first HP was similar to the Delf DF 104 X, it was not in the names of the vehicles presented on the site. Its price was around 2000 rubles. Made in China. The coating is ordinary, non-stick, thin. The choice of programs is minimal, but at the same time it coped with both rye dough and dumplings. The stirrer after the second baking of the bread was soldered and no longer removed, which actually did not interfere at all. 450 grams of flour for kneading maximum. As far as I understand, the second HP Midea that you are looking at is a Chinese manufacturer of a fairly well-known brand in our Far East. And the reviews specifically for this manufacturer are good.

But for the waffle iron, something really hurt. You just came across the wrong waffle iron. The site has discussions about this, read

Well, my Panasonic is not that old, it's 5 years old, it's just an outdated model, SD 257, made in China. Plastic outside, metal inside, there was never a smell. I have not tried any other HP, at my suggestion three people bought Panasonic, everyone is happy.

Maryka - thank you very much for the information! In our stores, I looked at the SD-2510 and SD-2500 so far, the latter seems to be also removed or discontinued, but many people praise it on the Internet. Manufacturing - China, which confused me. But if your Chinese one works so much and does not smell of plastic, this sets you up for optimism) And how is the Teflon coating on your shoulder blade - did it deteriorate over time? I also have Teflon in the Panasonic multicooker - I have not created any problems yet, but it is grayer and smoother, and there is nothing to spin / wear, and the cartoon itself is made in Thailand.

[VENIKA]

VENIKA, now all bread makers are made in China, or am I not aware of something? And what is the problem with China, do iPhones in China and what?

I already have the third spatula: I scratched the first one after baking the first bread, it got stuck, and I couldn't wait for the bread to peel away, I tried to pick it out with a knife; the second also got stuck somehow, I forgot and began to cut bread. Some bread makers have a special hook for taking out a scapula, which is convenient. So, of course, there are scuffs that are not critical. I have no prejudices about China.

[VENIKA]

VENIKA,
I vote for Panas.
No dancing with tambourines, unless you yourself want to bake something extravagant))))
Five minutes to load and in a few hours the bread is ready. The usual dry Saf yeast, which is everywhere.
We have 2502 for almost two years. Our first HP, before this experience was zero. Works on average every other day. I bake white, black, French, cereal, cake, make dough for pies, dumplings, pancakes, pizza.
The coating is slightly peeled off on the paddle and bucket, but nothing sticks.
From breakdowns - I broke the dried fruit dispenser out of my own stupidity. I bought it on order in the service and I am happy with the delicious bread further

[VENIKA]

VENIKA, I did not choose a bread maker at all, I bought it in my grocery store for a promotion at half price. I have Vitesse.
I have never baked bread before. Now, as a former newbie who has not forgotten his first impressions, I can answer some of your questions.

How important is the number of programs in HP in general?

I have quite a few programs, but I actually use three - the main one, the dough and the baked goods. Recently, the bread maker has been working more often as a kneader, baking in the oven, so it is tastier and more interesting.

I'm not sure if I can spend 6 hours on "dancing with a tambourine."

If you do not try to bake complex rye bread with sourdough in a bread maker, but limit yourself to simpler wheat and wheat-rye breads, then dancing with tambourines takes 10-15 minutes. This is the time for weighing and laying products and controlling the bun at the beginning of the batch. Then your smart girl will do everything herself. And when you find your favorite bread recipes and check the amount of flour and liquid in them, then there will be no need to control the kolobok, you can put it at night with a delayed start.
About a bucket and a shovel. I scratched the spatula almost immediately, forgot to pull it out and began to cut the bread. I haven't changed anything, so I live with the scratched one, I don't see anything bad.
The coating holds up well (2.5 years), but recently the bucket started leaking. If I knead right away, then it's fine, but you can't put it at night. It is necessary to change the oil seal or the entire bucket.
It seems to me that you can buy a simpler machine in order to understand whether you need it at all. And then you will already develop and buy yourself either a more sophisticated bread machine, or a kneader, or you will return to purchased bread. For example, I already want a dough mixer ...

Does it make sense to start with a proven and expensive model - twice the price difference = two times the quality of the components, or is it not so simple? How important is it to have detailed instructions and a recipe book - is it really difficult without them, or will you still have to experiment because of the difference in gluten in flour and other nuances? "

it's more convenient to start with Panasonic, since the technical perfection of the stove itself and the technological perfection of the recipes compensate for the lack of skills.
Good is easy to learn.
Having already filled your hand, you can easily bake it on any bread maker.

The flour-water ratio is unstable, since the moisture content of the flour itself changes during the seasons, so the expression "... water - how much flour will take ..." is used to the desired density of the bun.
if you are afraid of the difficulty of moistening a dry kolobok (although this is not a problem if you have a hand-held silicone spatula), then the second time you can put in a little more water and report flour.

if you are from a big city, look at used Panasonic. in Moscow they buy used ear equipment in perfect condition for ridiculous money.
It seems to me that a used Panasonic earpiece is more reliable than a new midi in all respects. although there is an element of luck in it.

in terms of volume, both hp are not suitable for you, by the way.
to bake for one person and often, you need a bucket for a maximum of 500g. ready-made bread.

so, I have a Panasonic sd254, since I bought a small Rolsen RBM-530

Now I looked at the prices for HP, yes, the price for Panasonic is rather big, but I still would not save. Tomorrow is Black Friday, today in many stores there are big discounts, look, maybe you can find a good price for this business on Panasonic.

Many thanks to Maryka, Omka, SvetaI, Sens for sharing their experience and advice !!! Now I will definitely buy the stove, but I'll think about the choice)) I always choose things for a very long time and tediously, but then they serve me well and for a long time) I have no prejudice about China (there are still several unkillable things). But either "fake" products sometimes get into stores (some Chinese comrades like to sculpt perfect copies of branded goods from what they have come to hand), or pest collectors periodically come across there ... In general, it is better to look and feel with passion - where is China, and where is "kytai"))

This is again I am a bore, with the next questions)) I am considering what is in our stores. If you stop at Panasonic, then:
1) Model 2510 - it has the function of wheat bread, you can bake from low-yeast dough and do something with filling there;
2) Model 2500 - none of the above, but there are programs for baking cupcake and French baguette
Which of these is more important? Wheat bread is some kind of strange function according to the description - "HP will decide for itself ..." How's that? The Baguette function also sounds a bit strange for a bread machine - do you mean the same airy-layered consistency or something else?

Panasonic Bread Makers

Three parts of the "Marlezon ballet" about 2500 is a little too much even for such a bore as me)) And according to SD2510 I found here only an incomplete description of functions with a photo https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...k=view&id=1196&Itemid=207 and the brilliant lack of comments ((Maybe I'm doing something wrong when searching?

[VENIKA]

VENIKA,
About the baguette, I can say that it will be the same loaf in shape, but the structure of the dough is different. Really very similar to a baguette - crispy, crumbly, slightly rubbery
I call it French
The program is different - if the main bread recipe is 4 hours, then here 6
As for the cupcake - why bake it in hp? For this, the multicooker is good, the more you have it, as I understand it
Download the instructions in pdf and read. And compare the modes that raise questions - maybe there is only a difference in the names. Panas should have a plate in the manual, everything is written there right by stages.
Yeast-free bread, as I understand it, is more from the field of medical nutrition. I baked gluten-free for the neighbors - there really is a different algorithm and program. The question is, how relevant is this for you.

Thanks to Omka for the clarification! I really don't need a cupcake, like pies with a filling, but I love air-crunchy French bread (and I can really crack it a lot), and I also really respect something like a ciabatta (although the real one should probably be baked in oven). Actually, because of this, I looked at Midea - all the owners praise the "French bread" mode very much. I will still look for instructions for Panasonic 2510, but for some reason there is practically no information about this HP on the Internet ((It seems that the model is not entirely new ... Maybe just because of the lack of a "baguette" function

I will still look for instructions for Panasonic 2510, but for some reason there is practically no information about this HP on the Internet ((It seems that the model is not entirely new ... Maybe just because of the lack of a "baguette" function

the program "French bread = baguette" is the same in 2510 and 2500.

buy 2510, as the "low yeast" program is useful (in my opinion)!
sorry there are no 2511 on sale. then you will want both the rye program and the dispenser ...

everything that is written on the forum about 2500 (recipes and rules) also applies to 2510

instruction for 2510
🔗

for some reason they write that 2500 with a volume of 1200, but the mass of flour on the size of HL is the same = 600g.

I went to the Panasonic office site ... There is an SD2510, only a couple of phrases have been written about a diamond-some-there bucket cover and 13 programs, but there are NO instructions! For some reason, the SD2510 costs less than the SD2500, but why is apparently a BIG SECRET ... I wonder if there are any happy owners of this NGO (unidentified baking object)))

Thank you very much Sens! While I was sculpting my indignation, you answered most of my questions)

Thanks again to all those who are not indifferent for the recommendations and advice. Special thanks to Sens for focusing my attention on the "low-yeast" program. I've read about it in general and about the epic battles of its supporters with opponents in particular. After reading the motivation like "spoils karma!" I just couldn't help but buy a Panasonic SD-2510. It's so exciting to devote yourself to the scientific kitchen study of the "root of all evil"! Just think, all the problems of mankind are hidden in biscuits, waffles and kefir buns! In KhP, they are certainly not baked, but the enemy does not sleep, and teachers in schools and universities lull the vigilance, telling about the omnivorousness of homo sapiens In general, I grabbed this last representative of a rare species in the city's shops, brought it home - I sit admiring it. As I study the instructions and bake something edible (the first "cleansing and warming" pancake is still better to feed the pigeons, as I understand it), it will be necessary to start a new topic.Something like "goodbye gastritis, hello gluttony" You will also need to properly study the recipes and tips for Panas in the corresponding branches, but one insoluble question is tormenting right now - if the instructions for 2510 and 2511 are the same and the characteristics of the engine seem to be the same, then what interferes in the service to buy a "rye" spatula and add it here? Although there, probably, the baking program is completely different. Well, okay, anyway, my favorite part of rye bread has always been caraway sprinkle

[VENIKA]

VENIKA,
Congratulations on your purchase!
Start with the recipes in the book. They are proven and good
Bake ordinary bread on the first program, you can share with the birds, if you really love wildlife
Measure the ingredients accurately and you will succeed
Are there electronic scales in the house? It is necessary!

As far as I understand, these models differ in their brains - inherent algorithms - you can bake rye bread without a spatula and without a program, but you have to help the oven a little ... But this is a little later, start with a simple, dairy one, bake a Frenchie
The main thing in our business is normal yeast and flour!
I directly remembered the last New Year and my first experiences ...
Bon Appetit!

I join, Panasonic is the best choice. For starters, bake simple bread and do not give it to anyone, for ruddy you can replace some of the water with milk, even 15 ml will be enough. I have a book by Anna Kitaeva "Me and My Bread Maker", where you look at recipes and immediately want HP! You still can't bake pure rye bread without sourdough or agram-panifarin, but mix rye-wheat bread and a simple spatula, there are many recipes adapted for bread makers without a special program, the main thing is to carefully study the instructions and understand the principle and features of making rye-wheat breads.