Su-Vid and all the subtleties of technology

At the expense of the nitrite salt, I explained that there was no need to add it.
But if you make a cold table for a snack, then you need to add, because such meat can be stored for a long time, we don't make ham every day, but once cooked and eat it until it's over, and this is not 1 day, but maybe 7 days.

And if you cook meat in order to eat it right away, then nitrite is not needed at all.

[Larissa]

I never add nitrite unless I intend to send vacuum-sealed meat products for long-term storage! What's the point? When eating cooked in the near future, botulism is not threatened. Just for the color? Although in small doses it is harmless, but what for if there is no need to feed our organisms with it? And the professional inventors of sous vide also recommend doing this.

Larissa, maybe you are right somewhere, but ...

Clostridium botulinum is a bacterium that produces dangerous toxins (botulinum toxins) in low oxygen conditions.
Botulinum toxins are among the most potent substances known to date. lethal action.
Botulinum toxins block nerve functions and can lead to respiratory and muscle paralysis.
Human botulism, caused by the consumption of contaminated food, is a rare but potentially fatal disease if not promptly diagnosed and treated with antitoxin.
Foodborne botulism is often caused by eating foods that have not been properly processed. When cooking canned or fermented foods at home, special precautions must be taken.
Overview

Human botulism is a severe, potentially fatal, but relatively rare disease. It is an intoxication usually caused by the consumption of highly active neurotoxins in contaminated food. Botulism is not spread from person to person.

Clostridium botulinum produces spores, resistant to high temperatures and widespread in the environment. In the absence of oxygen, these spores germinate, develop and begin to release toxins. There are seven different forms of botulinum toxin - types A through G. Four of them (types A, B, E and in rare cases F) cause human botulism. Types C, D and E cause disease in mammals, birds, and fish.

Botulinum toxins enter the body through the consumption of improperly processed foods in which bacteria or spores survive and produce toxins. The main cause of botulism is food intoxication, but it can be caused by intestinal infections in infants, wound infections, and inhalation.

With Su-vid, temperatures are low (relatively). Oxygen is absent (practically) The most ideal conditions for the development of botulism.
Botulism does NOT develop on storage, it does on cooking.
That is, we have a choice. Either eat meat with added nitrite, in the amount allowed and safe for the body (established by many studies), or have a chance to experience the effect of the deadly toxins of botulism. In principle - everyone is his own "master - master".
I just choose a small (permissible by many instructions and rules) amount of nitrite, and not a chance to experience the effects of botulism.
I don't argue with anyone. I’m just explaining my choice.

[aleck]

aleck, I know everything about botulism, she herself created about it theme... Therefore, I am saying that in the absence of the need for long-term storage in the absence of oxygen, nitrite is not needed.In case of insufficient heating, indeed, the spores do not die, but they can "germinate" and turn into poison only after long-term storage in the absence of oxygen.

[Maria]

At the expense of the nitrite salt, I explained that there was no need to add it.
But if you make a cold table for a snack, then you need to add, maybe such meat can be stored for a long time, we don't make ham every day, but once cooked and eat it until it's over, and this is not 1 day, but maybe 7 days.

And if you cook meat in order to eat it right away, then nitrite is not needed at all.

Maria, here is the previous portion (which was on the first photo), was "stretched" for 7 days. Dragged to work on a slice for a sandwich.
And the portion on the last photo was eaten in three days. The current (now to prepare, yesterday's "leaven") - so it will be for a week - tomorrow my working week begins.

Maria, here's the previous portion (which was on the first photo), was "stretched" for 7 days. Dragged to work on a slice for a sandwich.
And the portion on the last photo was eaten in three days. The current (now to prepare, yesterday's "leaven") - so it will be for a week - tomorrow my working week begins.

Then the addition of the nitrite salt is justified.
Only now you're doing it right with exposure

Then the addition of the nitrite salt is justified.
Only now you're doing it right with exposure

Duc ... Let's learn ...

Added Saturday 20 Aug 2016 10:27 PM

Well ... Two bags have been prepared. In one turkey shank in the other pork ... In short, pork with meat, lard and ribs.

Both together at 60 degrees felt 4 hours and 30 minutes. Chilled. Two hours in the refrigerator.
I decided to make frosting and caramelization.
I found the recipe on the Internet. I chose honey-mustard.
• 1 cup of honey;
• ¼ cup of grain mustard;
• 2 tablespoons of hot mustard;
• 60 g of butter;
• salt to taste.
Made half (only half as much) portion.
Gag: a teaspoon of soy sauce, Provencal herbs - a teaspoon.
Cook for a few minutes.

Nondescript shin skin ...

Let's do it, coat it with glaze, bake it with a gas burner .:

Done:

The mobile phone is too bright. In real life it is darker.
So is the pork. Here is after Sous-Vid, before frying. :

And then - fried

Both pieces:

We cut:

Pork with garlic. (garlic turned green a little, but did not spoil the taste)

Turkey shank ...
The smell is persistently barbecue. The taste is also barbecue. Awesome - barbecue.

Added on Friday 26 Aug 2016 08:54

Continuation of the "fate" of that same piece of turkey drumstick.
For today, there were about 250 ... 270 grams left (I still pulled out the rest for sandwiches for work).
Cut into pieces about 3x4x5 cm, strung on a couple of skewers, spread a tablespoon of soy sauce + a teaspoon of olive oil, + a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar. He smeared the pieces of meat with this mixture, seasoned with ground black pepper and lightly fried with a gas burner.
Barbecue. Abaldet.
There will be no photos - after the photos, the topic stalls ...

Added on Friday 26 Aug 2016 08:54

And the "homemade" of my apparatus (the Su-Vid thermostat), with the cost of manufacturing less than 5 bucks and a hysteresis of 0.3 degrees, does not interest anyone here?
I wanted to show off ...

Interested in

Alexander, are you selling? Buy.

[sonai]

I am forbidden to insert pictures by link. There will be some difficulties with the description of the idea (it's easier to describe the implementation, here are my pictures).

Added on Friday 26 Aug 2016 00:17

sonai, nope, I don't sell, but I will tell / show how to do it.

Added on Friday 26 Aug 2016 00:34

Yes, would that be appropriate in this thread, or not?

[Alexander]

Alexander, you tell, show, and then we'll figure it out

And the "homemade" of my apparatus (the Su-Vid thermostat), with the cost of manufacturing less than 5 bucks and a hysteresis of 0.3 degrees, does not interest anyone here?

Our regiment (in my, one might say, singular) has arrived, a lot.
Of course it does.
I have it like this.
This was done for homemade ham maker, made according to the three-year experience of using "Beloboki". Since spring I use it as a thermostat for Su look.

Do you have DS-18b20 sensors? Or, again, are there Chinese thermal resistances? In my opinion, such an accuracy of maintaining the temperature is not required here.
There is no hysteresis - then either the relay is constantly hammering back and forth, or you need control by the PID method on triacs with turn-on control at the moment of crossing zero. Like Bresenham's algorithm.

Our regiment (in my, one might say, singular) has arrived, a lot.

Yes. Have I arrived (oh) (or have I arrived? ..)

Do you have DS-18b20 sensors? Or, again, are there Chinese thermal resistances? In my opinion, such an accuracy of maintaining the temperature is not required here.

Chinese. Thermostat programmable W1209

Specifications
Dimensions: 40 x 48 x 14 mm
Temperature measurement and programming range: -50 ° C ... 110 ° C
Measurement accuracy: 0.1 ° C in the range from -9.9 ° C to 99.9 ° C; or 1.0 ° C outside this range
Control precision: 0.1 ° C 0.1 ° C in the range of -9.9 ° C to 99.9 ° C; or 1.0 ° C outside this range
Hysteresis accuracy: 0.1 ° C
Hysteresis: 0.1 ... 15 ° C
Reading update time: 0.5 seconds
Supply voltage, V: 12 VDC
Sensor: NTC 10K 0.5%, cable length 0.3 m, waterproof
Maximum load current: 5A / 220VAC; 15A / 14VDC
Ambient temperature: -10 ... 60 ° C
Ambient humidity: 20 - 85%
Current consumption: 30 mA
Current consumption during relay operation: 65 mA
Load connection method: electromagnetic single-channel relay (5A / 220VAC; 15A / 14VDC) (for heavy loads, use a contactor or solid state relay of higher power)

In addition to the thermostat, an immersion boiler (for a glass) of 500 W.
And for mixing water (coolant) a small propeller on the shaft (like on ship models a propeller on the shaft in a tube, it is also a "deadwood", but I repeat - this is only a "deadwood" type) driven by a computer cooler without a brush motor ...
Thermostat appearance:

Side view.
And it is inserted into an oval plastic thermally insulated bucket (from under the herring, however), under the profile of which it was made:

Purely the interior (i.e., under the grill) is nothing particularly beautiful, but everything is functional.

From left to right:
1) Boiler,
2) "deadwood"
3) a tube with a temperature sensor.
Well, the thermostat's "muzzle":

Ishsho:

The box, as you can see, was bought in an electrical store (intended for installing machines). It seems like a bit big, but at the same time - cheap and cheerful.
Something like this.

The question torments me.
When I evacuate meat, it is moist enough that it can suck in liquid when evacuated. Thus, either it will not be enough without air, or it will not be sealed if moisture gets between the package. And besides, you can spoil the vacuum cleaner.
And if the air is not evacuated enough, then is there any point in preparing it using the suvid technology?
How to get out of this situation?

I want to cook meat in 2 weeks. Today meat (beef) was marinated, it is impossible to pump out the air well due to humidity. There was apparently air inside. I put it in the refrigerator. It won't go bad in 2 weeks? What about the meat, so that it is marinated, and sousse is cooked, and not spoiled?
Please tell me!

How to get out of this situation?

I sometimes place a nonwoven napkin (sold in rolls, disposable) between the meat and the edge of the bag. All moisture remains on the napkin and does not reach the packer. If there are no napkins at hand, I wrap the meat in foil (without fanaticism, literally wrap the piece slightly, leaving the ends so as not to interfere with the evacuation of air. I use this method more and more often, because a piece wrapped in foil does not stain the edges of the package, and it is perfectly soldered ...
You can probably also put the meat in a regular bag (do not tie it), and then in a bag for vacuuming, but I honestly do not know if ordinary bags can be heated to 60 degrees.

I, in turn, am interested in another question: is it possible to cook sous vide in a low container from a vacuum cleaner?

[Natusichka]

Natusichka, prepared three packets of beef liver today. Marinated in the refrigerator for two days. Very tasty and beautiful cut.
Before vacuuming, I wrap everything in a baking sleeve (I also use it 2-3 times, it is easy to clean), then into a bag and vacuum it. I am vacuuming at "normal" very tightly. There was no liquid, but after 48 hours there was a lot of blood from the liver in the bag, but all the bags remained intact. Tomorrow there are 2 bags of ham next in line, and three more days later, 3 more bags. I do it with a different exposure for comparison.

[Olya, Alla!]

Olya, Alla!Thank you girls!
That is, in the foil and in the sleeve you can see it in a vacuum ?!

[Natusichka]

Natusichka, can. I like it up my sleeve, I didn't do it in foil.

That is, in the foil and in the sleeve you can see it in a vacuum ?!

It seems to me that it does not affect the final result at all. For us, two conditions are important - vacuum and temperature of the environment. Both of them are being executed. Foil with a sleeve will not heat up more than water. Well, with such heating, all these materials do not emit anything, respectively, they cannot affect the taste in any way.

Yeah, okay! Tomorrow I'll try to vacuum it in a new way. Thank you!!!

I want to ask the knowledgeable! If the temperature step is 10 degrees in the mult, and we must suppose to see at 68 degrees, it is better to choose 60 or 70 degrees.
Or is it not sous-vid at all, but nonsense?
And even in Shteba, the temperature does not stay at exactly the selected one .. it runs up and down a little. Is it like a proper sous-vide?

[Mirabel]

Mirabel, Vika, I would choose 70 degrees, and reduce the time. But it depends on what to cook ...

I have to ask the knowledgeable! If the temperature step is 10 degrees in the mult, and you have to suppose at 68 degrees, it is better to choose 60 or 70 degrees.

Vika, it all depends on what you are going to cook.

[forum]

Chinese. Thermostat programmable W1209

My name is different, but the characteristics are one to one, down to the commas in the text. The appearance matches exactly what is seen in the photo. I did not dare to use the Chinese relay, just as it does not inspire confidence in dimensions. I feed VAZ from him. It obviously holds 8 A, driving headlights. In parallel to its contacts, a spark-extinguishing condensation of 0.1 microfarad 400V, so that it does not burn when it breaks.

The fan is an interesting idea. I have a Warren synchronous motor suitable. I once made it to stir the mash. But there the screw is large and the speed is low with a lot of effort. We need to see how he lies in the pan. Although I should have enough convective flow from the tile. The bags are placed in an eight-liter saucepan "with the letter W". I'm not complaining about the result, it's very attractive.
************
I use coolers in my dacha to supply heat from a Bulleryan stove to the next room. One at the entrance to each pipe = four in total. And then from the exit to the common heating tank and further into the corrugated pipe.
(This is me already, to the heap.)

For all thermostats I highly recommend forum spirtogones I got a lot there, both in terms of ideas and technologies.

The fan is an interesting idea. I have a Warren synchronous motor suitable. I once made it to stir the mash. But there the screw is large and the speed is low with a lot of effort. We need to see how he lies in the pan. Although I should have enough convective flow from the tile. The bags are placed in an eight-liter saucepan "with the letter W". I'm not complaining about the result, it's very attractive.

I have a "regular" bucket volume of 5 liters. But you can insert a thermostat into a 10-liter bucket, it will pull in power / performance.
The accuracy of maintaining the temperature in the entire volume depends on the fan, since I have a boiler, one can say the heating gives a "point", the temperature measurement in the volume showed, without a screw, the temperature difference up to 7 degrees (this is pure water, no product), and with a valve - up to 0.3 degrees hysteresis, but there is no difference (except for the same 0.3 degrees) the temperature is the same throughout the volume.If the stove heats up, it is clear that the bottom warms up evenly, but I would measure the difference (top / bottom). And the energy efficiency in my version is at a height, the heating turns on at 12 (twelve !!! just: wow: I myself am in shock), after entering the essno mode, seconds, and a pause from 1.5 minutes to 2 minutes ( at the beginning, the pause is less, while the meat is warming up, hike).
The real hysteresis depends on the performance of the screw (mixing), because after turning off the heating, the temperature rises for some time (the temperature is measured in the incoming "cold" stream, and not in the heated one), therefore, with the set hysteresis of 0.1 degrees. the real one is 0.3 degrees (this is in the last version of the "deadwood" with a screw, I fiddled with it a lot, at first it was 0.7 degrees, then it was possible to reduce it to 0.3).
I think, in the version with a water pump (I tried the pump from the car washer, but it hums unacceptably), the hysteresis could have been reduced even more, due to better mixing.

[target]

Yes. Everything is approximately the same as mine. I also measured at different points, with a different sensor. On those microcircuits 18b20. In a probe made of a rolled and soldered tube from a telescopic antenna (I use them for sausages, placing them in the center.)
But for purely general reasons, I do not see much target sense of maintaining such accuracy.

This is not a rect. a column where it is required to separate fractions with a close boiling point. There, I also postponed the automation. And even the unit itself was removed to the attic, for the third year already.

Yes, and with the layout in the pan, I do not go very well, at first glance. Therefore, I limited myself to what I already have. So far, it suits.

I also measured at different points, with a different sensor. On those chips 18b20. In a probe made of a rolled and soldered tube from a telescopic antenna (I use them for sausages, placing them in the center.)

I also have a sensor in a sealed telescopic tube. By the way - to reduce the inertia of temperature measurement, when using an external tube, you can use a heat-conducting paste (KPT-8 for example), or a heat-conducting glue / sealant to improve the thermal contact. I glued the sensor inside the tube to the sealant (the paste was in the garage, and the heat-conducting glue at home, after gluing the LEDs, remained). The reaction rate of the thermostat to a change in temperature has significantly increased.
By the way, practically a "prototype" of my thermostat "Submersible thermostat" Sous vide "Sirman Softcoocer Y09". You can see it by typing the name into the search. I am not allowed external links. Practically, and in brackets - because I first made my own version, and then I discovered it.

If the boiler is made galvanic, like a "soldier's" of two razors, but made of stainless steel and more, ensuring the area / gap ratio and placing it vertically in the middle of the vessel, then it, creating a convective flow inside the gap from the bottom up, can simultaneously vent. replace. The only drawback is that the stirring will then be synchronized with heating. And during the pause will be absent.

Practically, and in brackets - because I first made my own version, and then I discovered it.

How I once managed to make someone else's discovery in mathematics described here

If the boiler is made electroplated, like a "soldier" of two razors,

It is dangerous. One of the plates will be under the "phase" - the mains voltage. Why tempt fate? Well him.
I looked at the industrial / store versions of Su-Vid thermostats, they are all with a pump. Why "reinvent the wheel"?
What pump to use is a field for creativity. You can use a water cannon from a boat model (or something like that), you can use a centrifugal jet, from a car glass washer, you can just use a screw, as in mine, and for boat models, from there you can use a ready-made one. But a little expensive.

This is yes. I have a lot of experience in such matters.
Instead of a pump, you can use a compressor for an aquarium. Which blows bubbles. I have one on a smoke generator for cold smoking.

I have a lot of experience in such matters.

By boats? Or bladed boilers?

By taking over the phase.
Now we will be strictly indicated for the offtopic.

Instead of a pump, you can use a compressor for an aquarium. Which blows bubbles.

Can. will stir, essno. But inkjet is still preferable. There are submersible aquarium pumps. How they tolerate the temperature - I don't know.

I say goodbye. Yesterday evening I returned from the dacha, and now I will go to the last package of suvid under the construction hairdryer in the barn to poke.

By taking over the phase.

This is a dangerous thing.

Not everyone can tell after that about their feelings. For some, the pathologist then tells. Well him.

Added Saturday 27 Aug 2016 09:19 AM

suvid under the construction hairdryer in the barn to poke.

Haven't tried a hairdryer. Fries well?

[Natusichka]

Natusichka, for the first time I bought a vacuum-sealed shin from Miratorg. The shelf life is written on it at temperatures from 0 to +4 - 17 days.
So in a marinade with salt in a vacuum, you can safely store it for more than two weeks.
Now I will do so. I ask my husband to buy 1.5-2kg of tenderloin for ham, and he brought 4kg. He said that it would be a sin to leave such meat in the store. I used to put half into the freezer. And now I will marinate everything at once, and at the same time I will compare the taste.

[Countryman]

Countryman, now a small portion (for barbecue) of pork (0.5 kg) is being prepared. I measured the time on / off with a stopwatch.
Cool picture.
After entering the mode, essno. 9.38 sec on, 279.1 sec pause. For 4 hours (average time taken) 0.5 kW heating will be turned on for 7 minutes 48 seconds.
0.065 kWh? Nothing at all.
Or am I wrong?

[francevna]

francevna, And under what parameters (temperature and time) did you like the liver suvid?

Added Saturday 27 Aug 2016 12:04 PM

By the way, practically a "prototype" of my thermostat "Submersible thermostat" Sous vide "Sirman Softcoocer Y09

Yes, I earned almost 1 kilo-bucks with my own hands (I did not spend it).

[Oleg]

Oleg, yesterday I cooked at 65 degrees 5h30min, taking into account heating. Before that I did it at 63 degrees.
The first few times I cooked it without salt and spices, then you can use the liver in different salads, respectively, the taste of the liver will change depending on the ingredients in the salad.
I cooked it with salt and spices, used the liver in large chunks to make rice porridge. Everyone liked this porridge, even those who do not like it.
Yesterday I cooked the liver using nitrite salt and spices, because I will use the slices for sandwiches and will not be afraid to store them in the refrigerator for several days.
I like all the cooking methods.

[Alla]

Alla, Thank you!

Haven't tried a hairdryer. Fries well?

The passport maximum t, at which I work, is 350C. Dries rather than fries. But the fat in the heating zone is boiling. And there is not even a hint of charring. Rather light caramelization like that. I pierce a piece with an awl, hang it on a wire hook d 2mm in the barn, and hang a newspaper on the floor so that it drips. And I blow it from all sides. 10 minutes per piece. Usually I open one packet at a time, the rest under vacuum in the refrigerator lie until their hour. And I cook at most 4.
I have a gas burner, which can also be put on a cylinder and is good, but I have never tried to burn it. Somehow I don't like the risk of charring. I light up her garbage when I burn the smoke generator XK in the barrel too. I bought a burner for him. A useful thing overall.

Or am I wrong?

Everything seems to be correct.

[Oleg]

Oleghow the chop turned out is not dry considering that it is otherwise dry.

[Alla!]

Alla! Thank you very much for the valuable information !!!

The passport maximum t, at which I work, is 350C. Dries rather than fries. But the fat in the heating zone is boiling. And there is not even a hint of charring. Rather light caramelization like that.

I'll have to try. Bring the hair dryer from Toko's garage to Nuno.
And now the kebab is ripe ...
Pork neck. (0.5 kg did)
Marinade (yesterday):
1) a couple of tablespoons soy sauce
2) ginger (dried ground) -1/4 (maybe 1/3) teaspoon
3) a mixture of peppers (I can't determine the amount - I sprinkled it on top)
4) grain mustard 1 teaspoon.
5) salt (pinch)
It was pickled at 18 ... (with kopecks).
This morning I set it up to see. 60 degrees, 3.5 hours.
Then he cooled it / and waited in the refrigerator for "his time".
Strung on a skewer, and here it is:

Ready for final heat treatment.

Coated again with the mixture:
A tablespoon of soy sauce, a pinch of sugar, a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar, a teaspoon of olive oil, black pepper, and some black mustard seeds.
And mulberries - here it is already fried with a gas burner and is ready for the table:

Yes. We already have that ... We sat there.

This is a dangerous thing.

Uh-huh.

🔗

And now the kebab is ripe ..

Handsomely.

Handsomely.

That's right. The smell is especially beautiful. And even more special is the taste.

Added Saturday 27 Aug 2016 05:44 PM

Uh-huh.

Yeah. A familiar business.

Through my two hands, I somehow met the phase with zero ... I was repairing the TV. And the owner submitted a sconce with a phase on the body. And the TV chassis is grounded through the antenna cable braid. Duc back panel (3USCT) - ripped out with roots. Involuntarily. The retreat was terrible and prolonged.

How delicious you have pictures.

When I bought this device (for a long time) I didn't know about this forum, but I was attracted by the phrase like you can get a wonderful steak from any meat. There is no desire to even taste the steak (unlike, oddly enough, from raw meat, in which nothing bothers you), but just tender meat for slicing or ham ...
Unfortunately I didn't like anything. The meat turned out to be harsh and gray, even if with nitrite, the ham is dry. Fried sausages and fish are good, but clearly not enough to justify the presence of such a huge aggregate in the apartment
What to do then throw away? Or give another chance? Indeed, even at a time when even the word suvid was not known to us, my mother cooked pork in an ordinary bag lying on a towel in a saucepan. And she did it herself. No temperature control and sensible vacuum, and for some reason the result is beyond praise.

[Anna]

Anna, no need to throw it away .. give a chance unambiguously!
But I strongly disagree with the statement that suvid will turn any meat into a good steak. at least it didn't work for me.

So I have a sole using this technology, from the same meat that was quite edible in a multicooker, airfryer, oven and frying pan. I can't understand why it turns out worse, everything was according to the table. Well, when I do something for the first time, I hang it up to a gram and up to a degree. It's a shame, you wait for one result, but it turns out completely different.

[Anna67]

Anna67, Anya, cooked pork (different parts of meat), chicken breasts, beef liver and kidneys. Everything turned out very good. I didn't cook the beef heart a little, I had to stew a little, but the taste is excellent.

[Mirabel]

Mirabel, Anna67, girls, so I don't understand why you didn't succeed?
Maybe the meat was bad and it just took longer to cook. Here, the time also needs to be calculated depending on the quality of the meat.
those thickness yes, but also which part, old animal or not, was)