Wheat bread with rye sourdough

[Olya2017]

Olya2017, but, yes, I somehow missed the morning and evening, and there was nothing about the dough in the recipe for this bread, and I very vaguely understand how it differs from the leaven. I would like to finally adapt this recipe for myself.

we take out the starter culture from the refrigerator (grams 100 - 150), add 100 ml to it. VERY warm water and 100 gr. rye flour,

This is dough. I call it that. Only the author puts on the bread with a delay and the leaven matures during this time. And I put it separately in advance, it's more convenient for me. I hope I explained it clearly.
Here's another recipe by the author,

Wheat-rye bread with sourdough culture "For every day" (poglazowa2011)

I bake it more often. I like the amount of dough in it. The bread rises well. I learned how to bake sourdough bread using these recipes. My review is there.
I hope that the author will not be offended that she got in with the advice. But these recipes helped me a lot. I would like to share.

the last breath of Mr. PZh
The previous bread in the evening began to end quickly and, looking at night, put a new one according to this recipe.
I took 130 grams of starter cultures from the refrigerator, added 75 grams each. water and hw. flour, stirred. I threw a bread machine into a bucket, sowed 450 grams on top. whole grain wheat flour (seemed damp), then 250 ml. warm water, Art. spoon rast. oils, salt, prescription sugar. I didn't want to get up early, so I turned on the French. mode (6 hours) and 6 hours of delay. And fell asleep in a dead sleep. Half an hour before the start of baking, I opened the oven - the level of the dough of the blurry bun - until the middle of the bucket again (this is 12 hours!). He turned off the stove. After a couple of hours, the test level had risen to two-thirds. Turned on baking for 70 minutes.
Hello Mr. PeZhe

It seems that I did it like that - before baking, I smeared the roof of the rast with my fingers. oil

After about 10 minutes I cut off the top and took a picture. It tastes like nothing, there is a roof, but in one place it is torn. Smallish yet. It might have been necessary to wait another hour until the level of the dough reached the edges of the bucket ...
So, so far, the two main suspects in my failures are the weak leaven and the French regime itself.
Hey, recipe, I'll bother you, you better give up yourself!
And here is the bread mummy from a different angle.

Maybe bread has a memory for the images of ancient bakers?

bread mummy from a different angle

like a mummy!

I took 130 grams of starter cultures from the refrigerator, added 75 grams each. water and hw. flour,

If you take 130 g of sourdough, then it is renewed in the same proportions of 130 water and flour. Maybe I'm wrong. Connoisseurs - leaveners will correct. For myself, I concluded that the greater the amount of dough, the better the bread rises. I take only 30 grams of starter and mix 100 grams of water and 100 grams of flour, and according to another recipe, 235 water and 235 flour.

Thank you, I used to take 220 grams of sourdough from storage into a bucket, and added 100 grams to the sourdough from the refrigerator. water and rye flour, and then, after mixing, I took these 220 grams according to the recipe, but the roof took place only in the option of taking two spoons and adding 100 grams to them. water and flour. I don't know what to think anymore. I have already "overfed" the sourdough once. The sourdough from the refrigerator has a pleasant smell - either mash or notes of apple. Maybe even fiddling with French. mode prevent the dough from rising? And I tried first to put the dough on the mode, and then just wait for it to rise and turn on the baking myself, and the bread with an almost flat roof turned out. On the mummy, I reduced the water from 290 to 250, although the roof appeared ...

Here's a second try, bake this bread ...

It seems like nothing happened ...

[Helen]

Helen, and what kind of flour, mode, leaven, time?

[Helen]

Helen, and what kind of flour, mode, leaven, time?

I took the rye sourdough out of the refrigerator, added 110 water and 110 flour, put 220 sourdoughs in a container and left it warm for 5-6 hours to rise, then put everything in a x / oven ... total flour. appointment 350g, whole wheat flour 100g, instead of water, whey -250g, the rest according to the recipe ... turned on the kneading (dumplings program), looked .. it seemed to me that there was not enough flour, added 50g of general purpose ... the dough was kneaded , I took it out of the bucket, removed the spatula, crushed it and put it in the bucket ... put it on the proofer "Warm" rise of the test in the Panasonic SD-2501 service modewhere it stood for 4 hours, then turned off and on the baking 1.05! All! I used this service mode for the first time, I liked it ...

thanks for the details, we must try to do it this way. And general-purpose flour is like the first grade, and it didn't work out with the French regime? Interestingly, you also came to 250 water instead of 290-300, and even poured flour. I wonder if it's hot in the kitchen, and even the ten is heating in the service mode, if the temperatures will not add up to undesirable values ​​...

Another attempt at making the perfect bread. Is the cat to blame for the failures?
For the next experiment, wheat flour of the highest grade Makfa was purchased, supposedly the best.
He took the leaven out of the refrigerator, added 100 grams of it directly to it. rye and water. I took from the resulting 220 grams into a separate container and put it on growth in a warm place. Two hours later, it increased by two and a half times. I threw it into a bucket, sifted 450 Macfa on top, 250 (not 290!) Water, a little less table. tablespoons of sugar, a teaspoon of salt, two tablespoons. spoons rast. oils. Turned on French mode plus 1 hour delay. The process of kneading the kolobok slept, but it seems like he looked later - not a mess, it is clear that there was a kolobok. Half an hour before baking, I looked into the bucket - the dough rose a little more than half. I turned it off as usual. An hour and a half later, the dough rose closer to the edge of the bucket. I turned on baking for 70 minutes (there is a feeling that the temperature or baking time is a bit lacking).
Opened 70 minutes later.

Where there was a level of rising dough, there is also a level of bread. And I thought that during the start of baking, he still rises. I'll wait next time when I look out of the bucket. Again the roof is wavy, without a dark crust, in places there are holes inside the loaf, like craters.
Excluding the low roof, the bread itself is high.

The crumb is wonderful. And taste too. There is no sourness. Delicious.

And yet there is a feeling that the heat in the stove is not enough for the roof. Then I remembered that once the home ruler of all devices did not share something with the Panasonic and in revenge threw him from the windowsill onto the floor with a crash. A hole formed in the body, which I covered with non-combustible foil ..

I looked closely - the foil came off and fell somewhere inside and the hole in the body was exposed. Maybe this is the reason for the heat leak from the roof ???
Well, this bread will run out very quickly, I will close the hole with foil and try again. Hello to the redhead bandit.

Fiasco. The kitten is innocent.
The tasty previous bread ended quickly as expected.
So, first of all, I stuffed it tightly into the foil hole. This time, I just took 200 grams of sourdough from the refrigerator, having previously kept it warm for an hour. I put it in a bucket, 250 ml on top. water, 450 grams of wheat Makfa, 3/4 table. tablespoons of sugar, a teaspoon of salt, 2 tbsp. spoons rast. butter and turned on the dumplings mode. For 20 minutes, a nice kolobok was kneaded, did not add anything. I decided not to get involved with the French regime and left the dough to rise. After 4 hours, it did not reach the edge of the centimeter bucket and the roof was convex. Well, I think, another half hour and it will reach the brim. After half an hour I looked - oops, the roof became flat and, as it seemed to me, the test level began to drop. In a panic, I turned on baking for 70 minutes. After the signal, he shook out the bread.

All is well, but the roof has collapsed.

The bread, unlike the previous one, turned out to be sour, but quite edible and only, the previous one was just delicious. I reproach myself for my arrogance and gross violation of recipe recommendations. Probably the bread was needed.Yesterday, when I saw the convex roof, I fell into despondency. Today I seem to have moved away from him. Just bake French by leaps and bounds? Just to check the stove ...
And yes, forgive me, beloved cat, for the vile insinuations, you already live within four walls, you are not free, you have no cats and kittens

[enik]

Hi, enik!
I don't have too much experience, but I made such conclusions for myself.
The maximum height to which a loaf of bread can rise (which is leavened, which is yeast) depends on various factors - the strength of the sourdough, its quantity, quality of ingredients, temperature and much more. BUT - in order for the bread to reach this height, you still need to try. If you put a dough that has not risen into the oven, it will immediately begin to bake at the edges and will not have time to rise. If the dough is held to the maximum rise, then at best it will not rise any more, at worst it will fall off (because the formed "bubbles" around the edges will have time to bake, but the middle will not; while it warms up, it will fall off, so the roof is sunken comes out).
Therefore, for the best result, you need to catch the moment when the dough has already increased in size, but it still has a resource to raise. Then, when heated in the oven, a sharp, explosive growth will occur, and after that it will immediately bake, harden and no longer settle.
Somewhere I read such criteria: if when you press on the roof of raw bread there is a dent that does not straighten out - then the bread has already risen to the maximum, has stood - urgently in the oven! When baking, this no longer rises. It happened to me more than once, finished bread in size and shape is exactly like raw, and the roof is from convex (which was formed when raised) to almost flat. The second criterion - if, with the same pressing on the roof of the dough, the dent quickly straightens, then the dough still needs to stand, it is actively growing. Well, the last one - if the dent straightens slowly - then it's time to bake.

As for the slips, I don't think it's about them. When I was still baking in the oven, I did it differently - I wrapped the poppy rolls (that is, rolled out the dough with a rolling pin), and simply dumped them into the mold without hesitation, both of them rose well. Check your starter culture - feed a portion and leave it in front of your eyes, warm, in a transparent bowl. Note how much it rises and for how much - there will be information about how high the bread can rise and for what approximately time. In my warmth, the sourdough grows about twice in 2-2.5 hours if fed with rye flour. And if wheat - it grows longer, but rises higher; when I put Easter cakes (where the dough is put on milk), the rise was already three times.

There is another interesting option - look at this recipe. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=192986.0... I modified it like this: I took 100 grams of a rye starter and in two stages brought it to 500 grams, feeding wheat flour (it is interesting to take whole grain). It turned out such a mixed leaven. And already on it I put on this recipe - 500 g of sourdough, 150 (instead of 175) g of water, 350 g of wheat flour, salt-sugar-butter. I baked in the French mode, but I have it a little less than 4 hours, I baked it in the programmed mode - it only increases the rise time compared to rye bread. And everything works out))

[Annette]

Annette, thanks for such a detailed answer! I will keep your text before my eyes the next time I bake!

Was somewhere close to success, but almost did not have time.
Once again, using the same sourdough, with the same hope, bake the perfect bread.
This time, 100 water and rye flour were added to the leaven from the refrigerator. Selected 220 gr. from the resultant into a separate translucent container and placed in front of your eyes on a warm computer cover. 1 hour 45 minutes - the level has doubled. I threw it into the bucket. I thought that at first I poured 250 ml into the leaven - water or flour. water. Whole wheat leftovers 50 gr. and sifted 400 wheat V.S. on water. Then Art. spoon of sugar, teaspoon of salt and two tables. spoons rast. oils.Some voice in my head advised me to turn on the dumplings mode for 30 seconds so that everything was slightly mixed, and then turned on the French mode for 6 hours without delay. Two hours later I watched the batch - a decent bun, did not add anything. Half an hour before the start of baking, I looked at the level of the dough in the bucket, on the advice of Annette, poked it with my finger - the dent straightened quite quickly - yeah, so let it stand still, 10 minutes before baking I will check it and either turn it off or leave it. Of course, I missed it, baking had already begun, I did not open it.

Yes, a little understated, according to Annette's criteria.



But the roof is already there, the height is average.



I cut it when it was cold - much tastier than the previous one, without sourness. I seem to be approaching the automation of baking - after all, I did not add anything and did not interrupt the mode, which, in fact, is what I strive for. I wonder if the maximum height of the bread is so important if the taste and readiness are normal. Next time, I promise myself, I will do everything exactly the same, but I will add 2 hours of delay and, in principle, I will not look into the bucket! If it works out, then I will stop tormenting the forum with my experiments.

Irresponsible experiments with electricity and wild yeast or a cat-seer.
I repeated the previous version almost one to one, as I promised myself, but over time I did not calculate - I had to put 6 instead of 2 hours of delay so that the bread would be baked by 9 am. Nothing boded well and I went to bed. But at six in the morning the cat woke me up with all sorts of hooligan tricks, and so hard that I decided to go to the kitchen to see the level of the dough that had risen. I opened the stove lid, and there was horror. Around the shoulder blade is empty, and completely dry flour on the sides. Well, wow, an application for a fireman, because in two hours the baking would have turned on ... What is it? Yes, I am a fool, I forgot to add water! After some thought, throw this completely dry mixture into the trash heap or add water and turn on the batch, chose the latter and lay down to fill it up, not forgetting to feed the cat. In the morning I looked - the dough was in the bucket, two hours later it rose, but the hole did not straighten out from pressing with a finger. Yeah, so there will be no roof. Well, okay, let's be patient. After baking, it turned out that way

In principle, bread is edible, at least today. But the Mariana Trench instead of the roof is frustrating.

But. But there was no fire or damage to the stove. Thanks to the magic pendal

Here he is, the master of household appliances, a cat with paranormal abilities

there is no story sadder in the world than the story of the leavening secret ...
I did everything as the last time, only the flour was not wheat flour V.S. (ended), but 1 grade (Moscow Melkom_binat No. 3).
The leaven was fragrant and quickly doubled - an hour and a half. French regime plus two hours grace period. In the process I looked into the bucket - the dough was thin, but I promised not to interfere!
As a result, some kind of garbage after the signal in the bucket ..



You accompanied me from the shady garden
Suddenly a nervous shiver took you.
You tell me, you tell me what you need, what you need,
Maybe I will, maybe I will, what do you want.
As in this old vulgar hit - what do you need ...


I'm leaving for hogweedyeast, maybe not for long ...

Enik, I think your dough was watery. Try to add a little flour or reduce water.
And also a couple of times I got such a roof when the leaven was oh-oh-very mature, strong. Then for her, 3 hours of delay is a lot. I reduced it to 2, even 1.5 hours. You can also reduce the amount of the leaven itself, so that the bread does not rise so high, then it will not fall off later. I did it too and everything worked out. Then you will learn to evaluate the state of the starter culture simply "by eye" and everything will be OK.

[poglazowa2011]

poglazowa2011Thank you for the detailed advice on sourdough. I baked this recipe several times, the bread is delicious. It's still a long way to perfection, but the bread is quite decent, I bake it in the oven.

Thank you so much for the recipe. Everything worked out great. The only thing I added was a warm, fed starter culture and, therefore, did not make any additional respite.

I am very glad that I liked the recipe! Bake to your health!

I also want to share with you my successes and the path traveled. Before I found your recipe, I had been feeding my starter for a week. And to no avail, she did not rise or wander. After reading your advice on how to overfeed the sourdough, I decided to try it (I threw out half a kilogram of rye flour anyway). Did everything according to the overfeeding recipe. And she was surprised, after 4 hours she got up for the FIRST time. Everything else happened as you wrote. The leaven rose and grew. And at 6 pm she got up so that I had to put on the bread oven. All troubles with leaven began at 10 am. French mode 6 hours. Rye sourdough, first grade flour 50/50 and whole grain. I didn't count on success in advance. But when half past midnight she took out her bread, she was ready to jump with happiness. The bread is beautiful, rose to the brim, the crust is even, the roof is right. A lovely sight. Tried in the morning, I liked the bread, there is no sourness. This is very important to me. Thank you for the recipe. I will bake some more. Only the weight of the finished bread is very large for us, I want to reduce the iuki to 300 grams. How much leaven should I take, please tell me.

Good night everyone! I am very glad that the recipe turned out to be so "tenacious", I am glad that it will help someone to understand at least a little the intricacies of sourdough bread



lenalisik, for 300 gr. flour, reduce all ingredients by 1/3. Well, and a smaller stitching, and a shorter program so that the bread does not overstay. But this must be verified empirically.

Good day! Thanks for the wonderful recipe and equally wonderful and helpful tips. You are very helpful to us, beginners!)
The first time my bread went up less than before by leaps and bounds. And yet he was pale. In the photo I see tanned and ruddy options. I understand that I still need to work with the leaven and make friends with it. It is difficult to assess its acidity yet. I can't figure out if it is over-acidifying, or if it is over-acidifying the dough during the rise. Borodinsky turns out great with this sourdough, and the white is not mature and sour. Have you tasted the sourdough? Is it acidic like vinegar? Can you describe the degree of acidity? Sorry in advance for the strange question ...)

Nothing strange



It is certainly difficult for a beginner



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Only the first line ...

Thank you, but I didn't really understand the answer, or rather I didn't understand at all (
But I'm waiting for an answer!)))

Can you describe the degree of acidity?

Her acid is fruity, like, say, a sweet and sour apple. Or like a non-acidic kefir.

Thank you! Mine is much sour, like sour kefir. Do you need to feed more?

And more and more often, especially until the excess acid is removed. Well, and then maintain the level, you can set a reminder at the required frequency, so as not to forget.

Thank you girls! By the way, as a bonus for bakers - a wonderful face mask made from the remains of the leaven. And the good will not be lost and the skin will freshen up! Just don't hold it for a long time, min 15, the first time is better 10. She is very active)))

And I ferment whole grain cereals / cereals for cereals with leftovers / surpluses (I soak with the addition of sourdough overnight), and in the morning I wash and cook quick porridge. Even oats are soaked so that they are ready in 15 minutes.
After all, whole grain products must be acidified in order to neutralize phytic acid, otherwise the benefits in such cereals are less than harm. And that is why bread from c / z flour should be made with sourdough, preferably with long (cold) fermentation.

[Arka]

ArkaHow deeply did you study the process! Thank you!
My second attempt at baking the bread described here was better. The bread is a little sour, the bucket has not risen to the end, the roof is very convex and it is cracked, good in section. I understand that I still have to work on the leaven. I feed her.
I still have QUESTION: Should there be a kolobok when kneading in HP, like in yeast dough? I didn't have a kolobok and I added 1 spoonful of flour. Maybe I made the dough harder with this? Tell me, please!

Of course, ideally there should be a kolobok.But for tin bread, a damp dough is also allowed.

[Arka]

Arka, Thank you! But if you follow this recipe, the kolobok will not work. Or is my flour not correct? So add flour? Do you need another 50-70 grams before the kolobok?

At the beginning of the kolobok formation, no flour is added, since the dough may "gather" by the end. But in the last 5 minutes, you can correct it with flour. And remember that the amount of flour-water in recipes is not a dogma. The moisture content of the flour itself can vary significantly.

Hello, can anyone please send a step-by-step recipe for a proven sourdough and follow-up to bake pure whole grain bread. New bread maker Panasonic Krustina.

Thank you, but I didn't really understand the answer, or rather I didn't understand at all (
But I'm waiting for an answer!)))

Oh, very sorry - there were problems with the internet ...
If your bread at the exit is pale, does not rise well, or maybe even cracked on top - the problem is in the sourdough. Overfeed her, it's not difficult at all. Take 1 tbsp. l. sourdough, add 100 gr. flour and warm. water, stir and place in a warm place (about 30 °) for 3-4 hours. Then from this mass again take 1 tbsp. l. , again add 100 gr. flour and water and again warm. place for 3-4 hours. At first, the process will be sluggish. Repeat this operation until you see that the leaven begins to actively ferment, bubble, and becomes strong. And this will take not 3-4 hours, but 1.5 - 2. You can already bake on such a leaven. Sometimes a day is enough to renew the leaven, sometimes it can take a couple of days. Do not feed her all every time, there is no point in translating products: take 1 tbsp. l., this is quite enough. And when the leaven is gaining strength, then increase the proportions to the ones you need. And be sure to write how it turns out - we will figure it out and try to bring it to an excellent result - a delicious bread!

Here is mine with whole grain, I really liked it, Thanks for the recipe

I only bake it

I only bake it

This is so high in sourdough .... and flour 450 grams ?! Bravo .. Mine turns out to be half as small .. I was so tall ... only ... if I add a little yeast ... but without yeast ... it doesn't rise so much.

Good day!

Tell me what's wrong with the recipe?
There are about 250 g of sourdough, 180 ml of water and 500 g of flour.
The sourdough consistency was like store sour cream in a bag.

[Andrei]

Andrei, I had the same roof when the dough was a little strained. I increased the time by an hour - it became even. In what mode do you bake, how long does the proofing last?

French mode 6 hours + delayed start 3-3.5 hours.

I reread the first message. Did you get a bun? According to the recipe, 450 g of flour and 290 ml of water. Sourdough 100% moisture (equal weight of water and flour)? If like liquid sour cream, then most likely more water. According to this recipe, I get a bun only after adding 1/3 cup of flour over the recipe.

Honestly, I don’t know about the bun ((
We always put bread on at night.

Here is another ferment, fermented milk on white flour with the addition of whole grain. Proportions 250 g sourdough, 250 g water, 500 g white flour. 3.5 hours delayed start and 6 hours program.

Most likely you need to watch the kolobok. Try to check the process once a day. This happens when the dough is watery. A lot also depends on flour, even for one manufacturer the moisture content changes from batch to batch. Is on the forum temka with helpful tips. If you look by analogy with yeast, the amount of sourdough can still be reduced.

Understood, I will continue to read and experiment

Thank you!

I also noticed that the bread has a very thick dark crust ((

As for the sourdough, when I feed it, I put 10-15 grams of flour. more than water.

how in this situation do you get the consistency of thick sour cream? Rye flour takes a lot of water, I always add more water than flour, so as not to get a dry, cool lump

I put it in the cold right away, she eats in the refrigerator and the next day is ready for baking AGAIN, it smells delicious

What kind of rye do you have? my wheat, if immediately thrown into the refrigerator after feeding, withers

After many attempts, I still have bread. It was all about the leaven.Pale crust, slight rise .... all indicative of poor starter quality. Overfeed .... began to bake, in a day, two and .... voila ... bread is ready. Thank you. The oven must be exactly according to the recipe, then everything will work out.
Thanks again.

I understand this recipe without dough?

I am again in the subject, I was drawn to healthy food, to sourdough bread. Has grown rye sourdough, raised it for 5 days. And at the end of the 5th she baked bread. But I was afraid that the young, weak leaven added pressed yeast. And instead of water, old memory, diluted serum. In the morning, opening the lid of the bread maker was amazed. Giant bread was crawling out of it, otherwise you cannot name it. Apparently he had nowhere to grow, so the roof turned out to be bumpy. But on the whole I am satisfied, I had a big break in this recipe, and the bread pleased me both in size and crumb.