Wheat bread "Lacy" with sourdough

Thank you, I am your eternal student.
I myself saw that I began to sink. Well, this is my first such climb turned out, waited for the maximum and waited !!!!
Now everything has become clearer and simpler, I will take into account the volume of water. Thank you. And how can you give thanks)))?

[Ata]

Now everything has become clearer and simpler, I will take into account the volume of water.

Ata , this is correct.

And how can you give thanks)))?

Press the button Thank under the author's avatar.

[Happy New Year to everyone!]

Omela, hello!
I tried to knead bread according to your recipe.
As a result, I have the same problem that Ata's dough is thin.
But I also have this problem when mixing according to other recipes.
So, I finally conclude that in my case it is always
you need to make an adjustment towards a decrease in the amount of water.

Also, due to my inexperience with the dough, one point is not clear - the more I knead
the dough, the more it begins to stretch in long, sticky threads
As I understand it. that it is gluten that manifests itself so. But this is not rye dough to stick so much!
Straight here are very sticky threads ... do not peel off either from your hands or from a wooden spoon.
At the end of the batch I wanted to mix it with my hands. First with a mixer.
Now the second stage is kneading the dough, setting the fit.
I had to add flour ((otherwise it will not be molded (floats), and cannot be detached from the hands))

Happy New Year to everyone!!!

[Winter]

Winter , Thank you for your congratulations! All the best to you too !!!

So, I finally conclude that in my case it is always
you need to make an adjustment towards a decrease in the amount of water.

It is right. You should always focus on your dough and your flour.

the more I knead the dough, the more it starts to stretch with long, sticky threads
As I understand it. that it is gluten that manifests itself so. But this is not rye dough to stick so much!

Rye dough behaves in a completely different way. It just sticks and tears, but won't stretch. You just get a runny dough, that's why such problems. Although, it is in this recipe that the dough is thinner than usual. When forming, the table must be sprinkled with flour. All these nuances are very difficult to explain in words. You have to feel it yourself.

Thank you! (Pressed the button)
I will keep trying.
The bread is already baked, it's worth cooling down until I can cut it and see how things are inside))
I did not particularly fit and cracked a little on top. the dough has stopped.
I touched him lightly before baking and one side was a donkey ...

I'm still wondering how you do the molding? what are the hand movements with the dough?

[Winter]

Winter , why not come in cheap ??? What sourdough do you have ??? How long was it? Cracked at the edge or in the center ??

I'm still wondering how you do the molding? what are the hand movements with the dough?

Usually I collect from the edge to the center. If the dough is dense, then I fold it further 4 times. And here just in half and in shape.

I already have an unknown animal leaven))
I started out like French, but now I don’t know anything))
but in itself fits well. but not very good with the test.
I'm just curious. Then I'll make the French classics.
even the Belgian interested. but there is such an expense
For the molding, thanks, I do something like this))

And the bread is very similar in appearance to the one in Ata's photo.
the taste is very pleasant, the crust is generally mortality!

[Winter]

And the bread is very similar in appearance to the one in Ata's photo.

Means really nogo liquid.

but in itself fits well. but not very good with the test.

Winter, I had such a leaven before. It fit itself, but the problem with the test.I eliminated her. Now I have French liquid.

Here ... I'll have to, see, and I will liquidate))
but what if he is capricious?
I would have put French for a long time, but there in the classic recipe
barley malt. It's funny, but I won't buy it in any way))
and with leaven, the only thing that bothers me is
that they need to be fed every day. Well, the hand does not rise to throw away ((
and we can't eat so much ... I baked here every day.
Not bread, so pancakes.
I'm so tired that no bread is a joy anymore ...
after all, in addition to fiddling with the dough, cleaning, cooking, etc. has not been canceled))
I’m still thinking, but what about the villages before? what were the leavens?
it certainly would not have occurred to anyone there to translate flour so easily,
throw away the surplus. I know that the leaven was kept in the form of a piece of hard dough.

error

Let's talk about everything in order.

I would have put French for a long time, but there is barley malt in the classic recipe. It's funny, but I won't buy it in any way))

Where to buy malt in St. Petersburg, you can ask your fellow countrymen: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=241.0... Or order by mail in an online store, for example, here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=39305.0

and with leavens the only thing that bothers me is that they need to be fed every day. Well, the hand does not rise to throw away ((

So you need to feed it if you tear it at room temperature. An ideal place for storing starter cultures is a refrigerator with a temperature of + 10C. I do not have that. I just keep it in the refrigerator at +4. I bake bread on average once a week, before that I take it out, wait for it to be doubled, take the necessary amount - bake bread, feed the leftovers, wait for the first bubbles and return to the refrigerator.

I know that the leaven was kept as a piece of hard dough.

This dough is called ripe. You can see it here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=69908.0

Omela, it’s not convenient to ask and ask everything, then one then another, I’ve already lost everyone, (most of all Viki), and all the questions do not end.
I have been looking at lace for a long time, I really liked your sieve, but now I still want to finally try lace. But how many I don’t read, I don’t think, I can’t take it in any way: if my sourdough is thick 1 to 2 (it turns out 50% like that), but the recipe needs 100%, then I need to take 150 g of thick dough for the dough and just 50 g more water (not 200, but 250)? So? Well, or 200 g of water in the dough, as indicated, and in the dough not 50 g, but 100 g?

[ilonnna]

ilonnna , let's figure it out. In the dough recipe:
200g. leaven
200g. flour
200g. water, that is, in the end it turns out 300g. flour + 300g. water = 600g.

Now with your starter, if you have 50%, then:
200g. sourdough = 67g. water + 133g. flour
So you need to add: 233g. water + 167g. flour

Like so.

It is clear, but I have already baked it is not right. I also withstood the ratio of 300 water and 300 flour, but by reducing the leaven to 150 g and adding the missing 50 g of water (like I made liquid from it). But it turns out that the amount of leaven cannot be reduced, but simply calculated ck. lack of water and sk. remove water to the desired ratio. That is, is it fundamentally? And I reasoned that the thicker the leaven, the more concentrated and stronger it is, so you can take less And it turns out on the contrary, the thicker, the weaker ...
Soon my incorrectly calculated lace will cool down, I will show it with a cutter. Outside, I still like it. It’s really on MK sourdough, it will not be white, but gray, but I still think it’s delicious.

[ilonnna]

ilonnna , the question is not "stronger" and "weaker", but only in the consistency of the dough. If the leaven is thicker, that is, the percentage of flour in it is higher, then the dough will be denser, not so airy. And the amount of starter culture can be taken as 30g. (to a minimum), only this will increase the dough rising time. The more active leaven, the faster the dough rises.

I will wait for your bread!

Well, then my calculation will also work, because the balance between water and flour was observed. The crumb turned out to be really as springy as the foam rubber True gray, but this is due to the fact that the leaven is on rye flour. I safely ditched the wheat one out of my ignorance. Now I'm trying to revive her, I will suffer for three days, maybe it will come to life. I will always have time to put a new one.My bread, of course, turned out ugly (I wanted to try to make incisions, but it did not work out - the blade was not found at home, and the knives were dull, in general it only ruined the roof. All the same, I would rather have done everything with wheat sourdough.

The "mouse" gnawed the bread (my youngest)

Now we will work on the wheat leaven and on the design of the bread, otherwise it turns out something ugly, albeit delicious. Maybe because I knead and bake in a bread maker ...

[ilonnna]

ilonnna , do not worry !!! Good bread turned out. The holes are uniform. But I don’t understand, did you bake it in KhP? And the incisions are best done with a scalpel or razor blade. But they are not made on such bread. For incisions, a tighter crumb is needed.

Oh, but I didn’t even think about it, now it’s clear why the notches didn’t work. I saw that yours didn't have them, but I really wanted to try to make them somewhere, but the fact that the dough should be denser did not even occur to me. Now I understand. It turned out that the "face" spoiled him with her own hands, A kneaded and baked in a bread machine, and proofed on a battery in a bucket of HP under a film. Kazanok (as everyone writes that everyone has it and will fit instead of a uniform) I was small and that something got lost, probably moved to the country. And the HP was just bought in January (the granny really asked for it as a gift to the village, but now she changed her mind "and don't bring it, I won't bother" she says) in general, it is not particularly necessary for sourdough bread. Better kneader and oven.

[ilonnna]

Better kneader and oven.

ilonnna ,

Mistletoe, I'm experimenting with lace here ... on Tahero sourdough. According to my recipe, such a soft-liquid dough turned out ... oh-oh .. I couldn't make a loaf of it. I had to add 30-40 grams of flour ... It is worth proving. Can you tell me why this is so?

[Teen_tink]

Teen_tinkLet's just say that the dough here turns out thinner than usual. But the flour of course is different for everyone. I took a picture of a "kolobok" from 350g. flour and 320g. liquids in a Swedish limp, and the girls say that they get porridge.

I didn’t have kashka during kneading, but neither did I have a kolobok. On the table, the dough did not collect into a ball. The flour helped a little to bring everything together. He went up very well. Only inside it is a little damp ... boom to reduce the water ...

And kneaded with knives in a combine ??? Lagging behind the walls ??

Kneading in a combine, but not with knives, but with an average whisk (not the one for eggs). It lagged behind the walls very weakly. And the volume in the kneader is too small ... It was necessary to knead a double portion then.

It lagged behind the walls very weakly.

Nah .. you need to lag behind and smear a little at the end of the batch!

So I caught up with flour on the table. Apparently the leaven requires a more careful attitude ...

Such dough is bad with flour on the table, it is not mixed properly and then it is not baked in bread.

I will try to add a couple of spoons on Sunday when mixing in the combine. I will look at the consistency. What to do, mistakes must be corrected.

This is not bug fixing, but experience gain! Good luck!

Today the dough is kneaded thicker, with the same parameters. It remains to wait about 5 hours and see the result ..

In general, the third attempt was still successful. Everything worked out. And the taste .. yum-yum, and airiness. I just got angry with the sourdough, and fed it 1 time in total, and gave it to ferment for 2 days. True, it baked for an hour 10, but this is already my form and oven. By the way, my Soviet fireproof glassware finally started working properly. Does not stick, does not burn !!! Photo tomorrow.

By the way, my Soviet fireproof glassware finally started working properly. Does not stick, does not burn !!!

Tinka_tinka, and you grease it with oil and then put it on the last rise?

You can. I grease it with lard.Or you can use a non-stick mixture (flour, sunflower oil, lard in the mixture) - there is this recipe on the forum. I greased it, put the bun, and proof it. And I cover it with a glass lid instead of a towel. Only in the oven I still put it on a silicone mat - I'm afraid of broken glass to eerie ...

We can speak unformally. Thank you, otherwise I’m just thinking about baking dishes (so far I’m baking in KhP), but in the glass one can see everything - conveniently!

Here is My report:

[Teen_tink]

Teen_tink , sincere bread, full of holes !!!!

I could not resist yesterday, I cut it hot. I broke the structure a little. And the pieces have already stood a little and cooled down. I liked it very much, especially the male half.

I could not resist yesterday, I cut it hot.

The most difficult thing when baking bread is to wait until it cools down.

Oh, right, Mistletoe! The hardest test for willpower. It's so tasty and aromatic while hot. And how the butter melts on it, mmmm ...

Today I have a version of lace with cornmeal and honey ..... the bun was cool and yellowish ..

🔗

well, in general it happened ... the usual flour in the house is over ...
Everyone is happy with the result.

[Teen_tink]

Teen_tink , handsome !!!!

Mistletoe, I still baked your bread a month ago, but I still can't post how cool it turned out! True, there is one omission of mine, that my form is large and I had to knead more dough, so that a higher loaf would turn out, but the bread itself is amazing, although it was then baked in KhP.



I'll have to try it in the oven - I'm now in the "oven period". Eh ... now I want to buy a good oven. You saw what I bake in ... The door is held by an elastic band for panties, but the door does not close tightly. And then I put 2 forms at the same time, so I had to prop the door with a mop, and the mop in a chair, etc. ... In general, it’s time for her to go to the trash heap. Steam comes down from the sides when I bake with steam. By the way, can anyone advise on which oven is better to put your eyes on?

[Ilona]

Ilona, great bread !!! straight BEAUTIFUL !!!

What kind of oven do you want - gas or electric? Can you use a mini desktop oven ??

[Ilona]

Ilona, great bread !!! straight BEAUTIFUL !!!

What kind of oven do you want - gas or electric? Can you use a mini desktop oven ??

We have gas, of course, but I heard that it is better to have an electric one, because it keeps the temperature more accurately, there are many different functions, and bakes are always said to be 5+ I do not consider the desktop. My kitchen is only 6.4 sq. m. I dream of cutting an arch into the next room and there already to make a living-dining room, but so far these are only dreams. It is necessary to hire someone to cut concrete ... and indeed ... repairs in the kitchen and in the bathroom are perhaps the most important but also the most expensive.

Ilona, ​​here we have topics on oven-stoves: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=180.0... Maybe you can learn something for yourself.

Ok, thanks, went to watch

[Omela]

Omela, my thanks for the bread recipe.

Baked on hop sourdough, overfed with wheat flour of the 1st grade. The photo from the phone may not be very clearly visible ... but delicious! You don't feel sourness in bread, leaven-beast good. The crumb is the most delicate, the taste is excellent, now one of our favorite breads. Once again Now it's the turn for Lacy wheat-rye with sourdough cheese.

And this bread can somehow be adapted for HP?