Rye bread 100% from peeled and seeded flour in HP.

But what if you take it out of the bucket, shape it and send it back to the proofing bucket?

Is it possible in more detail? What is "mold" and when to do it:
right after kneading or just before baking?

When baking, it will have to bake evenly, since the maximum porosity will be at the top. Or not?

It seems to me that if the porosity is different, then the baking will be different.
So my trick is that the porosity is the same ...
Just after taking out a loaf from a bucket, the crumb seems to be "blown away", that is
sticks together due to stickiness ... and so much that it comes off the roof.
And in the first minute after baking, the loaf looks just perfect!

It seems to me that if the porosity is different, then the baking will be different.
So my trick is that the porosity is the same ...

That's the trick. I read heaps of literature on this topic and did not find anything useful there. Then I introduced myself first to the leaven, then to the loaf itself. Air bubbles inside after kneading. So I will try to get rid of them. And I’ll waste my energy on the wrong thing. I don’t know how to write it. Let's try. The dough is kneaded, it ferments. We take it out, make a loaf blank out of it with wet hands, squeezing out the air, put it back. And let it rise. As it rises - bake. Take the risk? And either cut the top of it, or pierce it with a wooden stick in several places.
At the top of the pan, the pores are larger due to the fact that the dough presses the bottom with the weight.

[all]

We take it out, make a loaf blank out of it with wet hands, squeezing out the air, put it back. And let it rise.

I now have the "last experiment" going on ...
Later, if there are no completely different ideas, I will try.
But there is little hope for it, because before when I was nothing
I did not do this, everything was baked. And now out of your skin -
nothing is baked ... as if something was changed!

Or rather, they changed all... After all, I ran out of old stocks,
and the same label on new products does not guarantee
identical chemical composition. (Damn chemistry, or digital technology)

At the top of the pan, the pores are larger due to the fact that the dough presses the bottom with the weight.

Well, yes, a bit bigger ... like in my pictures on the previous page.

You will not believe ... it was baked !!!
The crumb is so elastic - even sit on it !!!
So, flour or molasses ...

I didn't like this molasses from the new batch right away, but I kept saying to myself:

Molasses is supposed to improve the quality of bread ...

What was added there ?!

(but in the summer, in hot weather, molasses from the old batch began to ferment with me ... (stood in the closet).
Well, I moved it to the refrigerator, but then the bread from it was so delicious!)

pierce it with a wooden stick in several places.

But this idea was not very successful ... I pierced it, so he immediately settled down
by 1-2 cm, and so it remained. The roof, however, leveled off during baking, but
the loaf was low, and the pores are small, small ...
(but there are a lot of them and the crumb is still very soft).

I think this may be due to the sourdough in the flour: earlier my sourdough grew on peeled,
and the new flour - it is not known what, but judging by the appearance - seeded (on the package it is indicated only
"Bakery rye flour", 0.5 kg package).

I don't have big pores on seeded flour. And I did not overfeed the leaven according to science,
and immediately poured in new flour and set the dough.

Okay, I'm done experimenting for now. I'm taking time out for a week, I will
eat your own bread ... (how I missed it, after the store!)
Thanks to everyone who supported me in difficult times!

And then I'll come back and find the culprit !!!

Urrrrrrraaaaaa! Vladimir, victory!
How glad I am that everything worked out! Bon Appetit!

I want to thank the author of the recipe, I’m just starting to master this science and made my first bread on eternal leaven, I liked it very much, only my roof turned out to be uneven and with cracks, but I didn’t grease or splash, there’s no pshikalka, but how do you make the roof beautiful, smooth and shiny?
I made bread from ordinary rye flour of one kind and sugar, put 1 spoon, the rest is just like in the recipe, thanks!

I want to thank the author of the recipe, I’m just starting to master this science and made my first bread on eternal leaven, I liked it very much, only my roof turned out to be uneven and with cracks, but I didn’t grease or splash, there’s no pshikalka, but how do you make the roof beautiful, smooth and shiny?
I made bread from ordinary rye flour of one kind and sugar, put 1 spoon, the rest is just like in the recipe, thanks!

I moisten my hand well in water and iron the top of the dough, it turns out to be even (and not lumpy) and moistened. To just moisten, you can again drip it onto the roof from your hand.

In general, I baked it again with my old flour and sugar.
Perfectly cooked! So the molasses was still to blame ...
Here's how you can unexpectedly "get": to search for the culprit
it took a month, a lot of nerves and a lot of flour ...

But sugar bread is not so tasty! Have to,
apparently, look for another molasses, the main thing is not to be mistaken again

By the way, baked with peroxide sourdough (~ 18h), the dough is excellent
rose in less than 1.5 hours And the taste is a little sour, like me
love. (On fresh leaven, when it just rose,
in my opinion, it turns out rather bland).

If anyone is interested, the results of temperature measurements.
Within 25 minutes after the start of baking, the temperature is
the bread maker rises to + 210 ° С, then after 5 minutes
decreases to + 165 ° and keeps on this for some time
level; and after the 40th minute from the beginning of baking, it rises
up to + 180 ° С and stays at this level until the end.

The temperature inside the loaf gradually rises and at the 67th minute
reaches + 100 °, and after another 7-8 minutes it reaches + 102 ° and
further does not change until the end of baking. Here I think the data
overestimated by 3-4 °, due to the thermal conductivity of the temperature probe,
part of which is in the + 180 ° zone.

So I wish you all good luck and always good ingredients!

In general, I baked it again with my old flour and sugar. Perfectly cooked! So, the molasses was still to blame ... Here's how unexpectedly you can "get": it took a month to find the culprit, a lot of nerves and a lot of flour ...

Hurrah! The guilty are punished in the forest!

Within 25 minutes after the start of baking, the temperature in the bread maker rises to + 210 ° С, then after 5 minutes it drops to + 165 ° and stays at this level for some time; and after the 40th minute from the beginning of baking, it rises to + 180 ° С and stays at this level until the end.
The temperature inside the loaf gradually rises and at the 67th minute reaches + 100 °, and after another 7-8 minutes it reaches + 102 ° and then does not change until the end of baking. Here, I think, the data are overestimated by 3-4 °, due to the thermal conductivity of the temperature probe, part of which is in the + 180 ° zone.

Vladimir!
Wow research! Have you poked sensors everywhere? How did you manage to blurt out the HP lid without prejudice to the bread and check the bread several times during baking ?!

How did you manage to blurt out the HP lid without prejudice to the bread and check the bread several times during baking ?!

So I measured it in 2 times: today I stuck the sensor into a loaf,
but the last time I had it next to the bucket ...
The wire is thin, passed through the hole in the dispenser lid.
So I didn't open the lid during baking, everything is according to science!
But now I am sure that the baking process is going right

So I measured it 2 times: today I stuck the sensor into the loaf, and last time I had it next to the bucket ...
The wire is thin, passed through the hole in the dispenser lid. So I didn't open the lid during baking, everything is according to science!
But now I am sure that the baking process is going right

So you, my friend, are a baker-techie ?! Well you can write a scientific work!

So you, my friend, are a baker-techie ?! Well you can write a scientific work!

Where to go? I'm already addicted to treason with this sticky crumb
Well, by profession it is true, techie

Here, I found an interesting story about molasses and sticky crumb
🔗
Exactly like mine! It's a pity, it's too late ...

And here 🔗 it says "it is impossible to completely replace sugar with them, as this significantly impairs the quality of the bread (sticky crumb and too malty taste)"
(although I used to bake without sugar, and it seemed to work out fine;
maybe it's the amount of sugar in the molasses? ).

And now in Borodino 🔗 use "sugar molasses"
(apparently, this is the same as caramel).

And finally here 🔗 recommend kvass wort instead of molasses.
I'll have to try!

Vladimir, good luck in your research! And thanks for the enlightenment!

[Vladimyr]

Vladimyr, good luck to you!
And please: in your previous message "direct" links prohibited by the rules of our forum. Please do not give such links, okay. Hope for understanding.

I constantly bake your bread, I really like it, but I can’t make friends with the roof, if the roof is concave inward, what does that mean - I overexpose it in the proofer?

[Arka]

... if the roof is concave inward, what does it mean - I overexpose it in the proofer?

Definitely! Reduce the proofing time and start baking while it is not yet fully risen. Indeed, at the beginning of baking, it will rise a little more.
Arkatell me ...

Everything is exactly as Vicki said. Vicky, merci for help with the topic!
I do this: I went up 2 times, put the baked goods on, I don't wait until it grows more, otherwise it will blow away during baking.
Irisik, do not be greedy with the height of the workpiece, nothing will change by weight anyway
Good luck with your baking! I would be glad if you share a photo of the crumb

Yes, yesterday it turned out with a flat roof, but straight with a completely flat roof, I would like a little convex, it seems like this in your photo .. I drew a mark with flour and started baking, when the dough reached the mark, I usually kept it on the proofer for much longer, maybe next time you need to draw a lower mark))))) I will definitely take a picture, I often bake this bread, so far I have it the most successful of 100% rye flour

do not put sugar. there will be no convexity with it. replace with molasses

I made your bread again, kept it on the proofer for only 2 hours, but the roof collapsed again, I drew a strip with flour and immediately started baking when it grew to a strip .. and this time the holes were larger than usual, I overexposed, right? well, it tastes amazing this is my favorite bread so far))) just need to deal with the roof

You are all right, Irisik! What a perky handsome!
You can knead a tighter dough, more flour, then the roof will even out. If it turns out too tight, it's okay, it's just that the roof will crack.
A couple more visits and you will find the amount of water suitable for your flour.
Good luck with your bread!
Happy holiday to you!

replace sugar with molasses

replace sugar with molasses

No molasses, unfortunately, can you honey?

[Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives.]

No molasses, unfortunately, can you honey?

Sugar, molasses, honey in your case do not affect the dome (roof) of the bread.
Look at your crumb, well formed.
The solution is simple, if the moisture content of the crumb is good,
reduce the rising time by 15 minutes and control the rising height of the dough.
For your loaf weight, you just need to reduce the lifting height by a couple of centimeters.
Serve with flour at the desired lifting height.
Shape the dough right away with the roof.
And you will have a dome on the roof.

If the moisture content of the crumb is high, then the water should be reduced by 20-30 grams.
You have already been prompted (noticed).
Water has a noticeable effect on the height when the roof still resists collapse.

p.s.
Come to me in the subject to look at the "roof", that sugar, that honey, that molasses, that fructose - all the same, holds, but the taste is different.
Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives.

Should the dough rise just a couple of centimeters? And I draw a mark with flour, but there I get 4 centimeters for lifting, it takes about 2 hours, I will try to reduce the water, I will also try to reduce the water by 20 ml, the crumb is really wet, but I like it .. Thanks for the advice!

molasses under the same conditions gives a more convex roof than sugar.
and the distance time in the warm with good fermentation can be only an hour and a half

I must say that 2 centimeters turned out to be too small for lifting, the roof turned out to be very beautiful, I was even delighted, but inside it is too dense and sticky, I clearly underexposed on proofing (I kept everything for about an hour), I put the whole loaf on crackers, now I am cooking again, I reduced the water by 20 ml and put honey instead of sugar, I will keep it on the proofer until it doubles, then I'll tell you what happened)))

then I'll tell you what happened)))

And we will wait for the result and keep our fingers crossed for your bread.
Good luck to you!

[Irisik]

Irisik, see answer # 33 on the second page of the thread

[Irisik]

Irisik, see answer # 33 on the second page of the thread

Oh, thanks, useful and visual information

Well, I show my bread, the result is already much better, the roof turned out to be straight, next time I will try to reduce the amount of water and the rise time a little more .. the total amount of water I got is 270 ml .. And I put a tablespoon of honey instead of sugar. The rest is all according to the recipe.




Also, how tastier is it - to brew malt or not? I do not brew, but many people do it? what is the difference?

how is it tastier - to brew malt or not? I do not brew, but many people do it? what is the difference?

difference in taste
try it this way and that as you like!

Finally, I also got to pure rye sourdough bread. True, as always, I did the opposite ... I baked in the oven. All recipe ingredients except sugar - honey instead. OOOOO Very tasty !!!!! Kneading 15 minutes, proofing for 2.5 hours and 50 minutes in the oven.
I took the half to my mother in the evening - she says the taste is the same as in her wartime childhood in Vladimir.
Thanks to Arka for the recipe. I'll try to count it up for the next loaf.
And there is no photo yet, the camera has not arrived yet ...

Hello! I bought a bread maker before baking, shoveled the entire forum, in a few days from a confident baker of bread in the oven to a timid user of HP. But not so bad .... as it turned out.

I baked bread in HP for the first time. I really wanted to bake 100% rye bread. Peeled rye flour of one type. Thanks for the recipe. I am very happy with the result. And the taste, and the structure and even the dome turned out. Only the crust on top cracked, I don't know why, please tell me.

Thanks to Arka for the recipe. I'll try to count it up for the next loaf.

to your health! Big and fragrant breads for you !!!

I baked bread in HP for the first time. I really wanted to bake 100% rye bread. Peeled rye flour of one type. Thanks for the recipe. I am very happy with the result. And the taste, and the structure and even the dome turned out. Only the crust on top cracked, I don't know why, please tell me.

Beautiful turned out! And the crust is cracked - nonsense! Maybe he didn’t stand during the proofing, maybe there is not enough water.
On the contrary, I love cracks in the crust, they give some kind of authentic look to bread.

I came to you again, dear Arka, with great gratitude. Today is the fifth day since I baked this bread, finished the last crust.The longer the bread lay, the tastier it became. The store one would have gotten moldy these days. My husband was very pleased with the bread, and I am pleased that he liked it. I will dwell on your version, I will do it with different additives (coriander, cumin, basil), and leave this base. THANK YOU

[miculishna]

To health, miculishna!

My favorite recipe. I did it on a semi-finished rye product, now on a Frenchwoman. In the HP, in the oven. A standard recipe with a bunch of all kinds of options - with malt, without, brew, dry, with spices, with honey, sugar, no sweetness at all, with bran. AND MANY THANKS for adapting to HP. Although I did it a little differently: kneading with dumplings and the Rye program without a scoop with a delay of 1 hour.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the recipe and good description!

After four completely unsuccessful attempts in a month of different methods and recipes, it was your recipe and description that finally helped me to make my real black bread! Now I'm just mega happy!

Here is a photo I will show my resulting firstborn





Only we can't get malt anywhere, so I add dry kvass instead, because there is also malt there.

And I also wanted to ask, but how to make bread a little drier inside? Less fluid?

[Only we can't get malt anywhere, so I add dry kvass instead, because there is also malt there.

And I also wanted to ask, but how to make bread a little drier inside? Less fluid?
[/ quote]
Lena, when I still didn't know where to buy malt, I made it with dark beer instead of water and added barley coffee
And he may be damp (guru, do not throw your slippers) from the fact that he has stood. I also used to be dull when I put in the leaven that was not fully ripe. It seems to me that this moisture inside it depends on leavening matters. So it happened to mine.

...
Only we can't get malt anywhere, so I add dry kvass instead, because there is also malt there.
And I also wanted to ask, but how to make bread a little drier inside? Less fluid?

In your case, by this amount of flour, reduce the lifting height by a centimeter, the roof will become better.
The amount of water can be reduced by 1 tablespoon.
To a knife with so much malt, the crumb should stick a little,
especially the first day, but we are not talking about hot bread.

And he may be damp (guru, do not throw your slippers) from the fact that he has stood. I also used to be dull when I put in the leaven that was not fully ripe. It seems to me that this moisture inside it depends on the fermentation works. So it happened to mine.

Yes, I actually had the thought that I had stopped a little. Because my leaven is very mature and abalden, I have been growing for a long time.
In any case, I did it. And this makes me very happy.

In your case, by this amount of flour, reduce the lifting height by a centimeter, the roof will become better.
The amount of water can be reduced by 1 tablespoon.
To a knife with so much malt, the crumb should stick a little,
especially the first day, but we are not talking about hot bread.

I don't have malt, but dry kvass, it probably somehow affects.
Yes, here I also have suspicions that I have stood a little. Thanks for the advice!

...
I don't have malt, but dry kvass, it probably somehow affects.
Yes, here I also have suspicions that I have stood a little. Thanks for the advice!

Kvass contains about half or slightly less malt, the rest is flour and bread crumbs.

Good day.
Please help the inept !!!!!
I'd like to bake rye bread in HB.
Found your recipe. But I didn't understand about the leaven. What is it? My mother makes sourdough from rye bread for homemade kvass. It is the same? Or something different? Tell me, please

[Starter cultures]

Good day.
Please help the inept !!!!!
I'd like to bake rye bread in HB.
Found your recipe. But I didn't understand about the leaven.What is it? My mother makes sourdough from rye bread for homemade kvass. It is the same? Or something different? Tell me, please

Sourdough can be prepared in different ways and so too, read in the starter section and you will understand a lot.
Starter cultures
Everything is simple and easy to prepare. Just read and get started.
The rest will help!
Success!

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the recipe and good description!
And I also wanted to ask, but how to make bread a little drier inside? Less fluid?

To your health, Lena! Bread is so handsome! The crumb is very good!
And - yes, you can have less water, and not let it peroxide!

My favorite recipe. I did it on a semi-finished rye product, now on a Frenchwoman. In the HP, in the oven. A standard recipe with a bunch of all kinds of options - with malt, without, brew, dry, with spices, with honey, sugar, no sweetness at all, with bran. AND MANY THANKS for adapting to HP. Although I did it a little differently: kneading with dumplings and the Rye program with a delay of 1 hour.

It's nice that it came in handy! Use it!
I also constantly "dabble" in spices, bran, seeds.

Please tell me what is the approximate time for the bread spreading.
I have a freshly grown "eternal" leaven. She put the program on French bread. (in this program there is no heating to equalize the temperature before mixing). After kneading for 15 minutes, I removed the mixer and sent it further to the HP. About 2 hours have passed, and the rise is very slight.
tell me what to do.

Please tell me what is the approximate time for the bread spreading.
I have a freshly grown "eternal" leaven. She put the program on French bread. (in this program there is no heating to equalize the temperature before mixing). After kneading for 15 minutes, I removed the mixer and sent it further to the HP. About 2 hours have passed, and the rise is very slight.
tell me what to do.

the main thing is not to cry!
wait further, the leaven is still young, not fully dispersed. As you see the 1st bubble on the surface of the dough, bake immediately. If your bread is made only from rye flour, then the baking time on the Frenchman will not be enough. It will be necessary to turn on baking in manual mode at 1: 20-1: 30, since it will not be possible to add time after programmed baking, the HP will not give until it cools down.

What kind of bread do you make, completely rye?

Yes, I make it completely rye.

Tell me, if I now reset the French program, and turn it on without gluten, it will suit my gluten-free lasts 2 hours 59 minutes, it is heated for 8 minutes, kneading for 31 minutes, baking for 1 hour 20 minutes, the rest is spreading.
Thank you.
My

Yes, I make it completely rye.

Tell me, if I now reset the French program, and turn it on without gluten, it will suit my gluten-free lasts 2 hours 59 minutes, it is heated for 8 minutes, kneading for 31 minutes, baking for 1 hour 20 minutes, the rest is spreading.
Thank you.
My

It should come up, but keep an eye on the dough so that it doesn’t overstay, or vice versa - it has time to come up. There is no need to chase the height of the loaf, because if the rye is allowed to grow fully, it will deflate during baking. You may have to turn on the baking sooner or later, after the 1st bubble. In general, keep an eye on. Write if you have any questions, I'll be here until evening