Ciabatta by Peter Reinhart (on pulish)

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow,
Thank you so much for the recipe!

The bread maker has been around for a long time, but I only tried to bake bread in the oven now.
Probably not enough of what the bread maker does.
I decided to start with a ciabatta. I really wanted to do it.
Added ~ 100 grams of chopped olives to the recipe.
Even in the process, the flour ran out and about 30 grams of whole grain had to be added.
And further sprinkling with it too. )
It turned out very tasty.
True, I still did not fully understand how and what is with the temperature regimes of the oven and how it bakes.
It warms slightly below. And it loses temperature very quickly when opened.
Because of this, it was necessary to increase the cooking time in the oven to 30 minutes.
The crust is crisp, the crumb is normal, but there is work to do.
I will try again.
I would like to make it beautiful and tasty.

Well done for a beginner. Large holes are preserved (more is possible, but there is no limit to perfection), baking is good, but the bottom is pale, which means that it was not very hot underneath. If the temperature drops dramatically when you open it, heat it up more (I set it to 250 degrees) and it is advisable to put something heat-intensive in the oven (a cast-iron frying pan, for example). Load the oven not at the moment when it signaled the set temperature, but still hold it.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, decided to bake your chabatta. Please tell me, when you fold the dough, what kind of butter to sprinkle, sunflower, olive or melted butter?

I use olive. But there is not much difference in which VEGETABLE oil to use. The main thing to consider is that if you take unrefined, the smell of this oil will be pronounced. But butter can be used if it is ghee. Not melted but ghee. This oil practically has the properties of a vegetable. But for chabatta, I would not recommend using cream in any form. It is completely out of place there. Olive is just that.

[Scarecrow]

ScarecrowHaving bought a new oven, recently I have been making bread exclusively according to your recipe. But according to a simplified scheme and using baking dishes. And for pulish I use wheat flour of the second grade, for the second stage - peeled rye. And even in this case, it turns out porous (especially under the "roof"), although of course not to the same extent as when using premium flour.

Yes, this is a great base on which you can put anything you want. I, too, often stick to a specific recipe, bring everything to automaticity. And Reinhart's - almost all of this series. I really like the stage with the refrigerator. You can adjust the baking process to suit your free time.

Please help a newbie! Something I completely got confused with stones and cast-iron pans and can't build a scheme of actions for myself? I have a small Bergofovsky saucepan with a ceramic coating. Do I need to turn it over, put it on the bottom of the oven and put the dough on it? Or put it on the bottom, warming it up together with the oven, and then the dough on a baking sheet, and boiling water in a frying pan?

[NadinAn]

NadinAn,

Look. Cast iron is a very heat-consuming material. It can be both a good hearth (i.e. what the stove is on) and a good heat retention / water vaporizer. If the configuration of the pot allows it to bake well, bake. For example, I have a huge cast-iron pan for pancakes with practically no sides, you don't have to turn it over. This skillet is essentially a baking stone. If the configuration is such that the diameter is too small, for example, or the walls are very high, put it down and then pour boiling water into it when baking.

Your saucepan is small and deep. You don't need to bake on it.Just bake on a baking sheet. Place the saucepan at the bottom of the oven. It will maintain the desired temperature after warming up and pour baking water into it.

Thank you!

So I finally tried the recipe. I put it in the bookmarks for a long time, but to try it - it still did not work out The bread is very tasty, my homemates appreciated it, they said to bake it yet.I just need to either reduce the yeast a little in the final dough, or increase the proofing - it broke a little.

I managed to photograph the result:

[Scarecrow]

Expensive Scarecrow ! Happy New Year!
I have been baking your bread with Peter for a long time, but I am not going to thank you. Now I am ready. Today, thanks to you, I have a gorgeous ciabatta! There is only one huge ciabatta hole, but the crumb is airy, the crust is thin and crispy and awesome flavor! Here, I brag


Of course, each housewife brings something of her own to the recipe, and I am no exception. In the dough, I replaced about half of the usual flour with semolina and, by the way, very successfully. I used to add semolina to the final dough and somehow it didn't have time to disperse - grains were felt. And in the dough, everything was fermented and gave the dough a remarkable pull. I poured a lot of water into the dough - first 150 grams and then added three tablespoons, that is, a total of 190 grams turned out (after all, there are 15 g in a tablespoon, don't I confuse?). And I also added a little powder ascorbic acid to the dough.
As a result, the dough turned out to be very sticky, but after folding and proofing, it hardened and rose in the oven right with a ball.
Thank you for the wonderful recipe and explanation! I promise to report on the baguette

I sit, waiting for the final raising of my chabatki. I got a strange dough - it stratified. The liquid was separate. I waved my hand and put it in the refrigerator. When I pulled it out, it was plump and bubbled. I began to knead the dough according to the recipe - it turned out very liquid and I had to add a decent amount of flour to make the dough right. Well, let's see what happens.

[Natty]

Natty,

Are you sure it's very liquid? Was it flowing straight? Because the consistency of the ciabatta dough is very specific.

The dough was like pancakes. In general, baked. I will not show it. They rose well and stuck together so that it turned out to be a magnificent madam, I sit. She missed the crust - burned out a little - because my oven is wayward. I will cut and try tomorrow. Conclusion - this is the first pancake, I will try again to achieve the ideal. Thank you very much for the recipe - I really liked the process itself. I did it with dry yeast, I want to try it with live yeast too.

[Natty]

Natty,

Well, once you have to start))). All this only comes with experience. Try and try further.

Hello everybody.
And if you do with yeast like Saf Moment or the like, how much should you put in the pulish? And then how much is in the dough itself?

[Kem]

Kem, in the recipe in brackets it is written how many dry to put.

I tried to bake it. The bread turned out to be delicious, but there is a feeling that the dough was not completely kneaded (there is only HP and hands, there was absolutely no time for hands).

in the recipe in brackets it is written how much dry to put.

Thank you. I did not immediately understand that dry is fast.

[Kem]

Kem, I once bought dry yeast, which is not a moment. And I added them as many in different recipes as before that were quick - I did not see much difference. I just didn't like the hassle of dissolving them in water beforehand.

It was similar in terms of the amount of pulish yeast to fast, but I decided to clarify just in case. There are no dry ones, there is only Saf. I don’t see anything happening with the pulish yet. Only single small bubbles on the surface. And it has been standing for two hours already ...

[Kem]

Kem,

You confused me ...))) Dry - this is the saf-moment / saf-levure, etc. They are granular. They may only have a different recovery technology (into flour or into liquid), but the type of yeast is the same - dry / granular. Fresh - they are pressed. What do you mean?

I myself seem to be confused.So this: I put a quarter teaspoon of Saf yeast in the pulish. Right?
And here's another interesting thing: if I'm going to make half a recipe (one ciabatta), how do I measure out an eighth of a teaspoon of yeast? It's unrealistic ...

[Kem]

Kem, I think that you still have a pulish by this time. The fact is that for this amount of flour, 1/4 teaspoon is very small. But the calculation is based on time - pulish is ejected for a long time.
Measure out 1/8 teaspoon - if it is measured from CP, then it is quite possible to measure it approximately.

Scarecrow, I have a question - is it possible to knead the dough for the ciabatta with an ordinary mixer (not a planetary, but a stationary mixer with two squiggles for the dough)? I also want to try to reduce the amount of dough (the mixer may not be able to handle the entire volume) and still try to develop gluten better.

[Anchic]

Anchic,
yes, I think the pulish is correct.

At 2 am I put it in the refrigerator, now (10 am) I took it out. Sounds like the truth?
I also thought to knead not with my hands, but with a hand mixer or in HP. But, I think, it will not pull either one or the other, the weight is too big at the output. Getting ready to create by hand ...

My HP kneads this weight normally, but the dough for the ciabatta is thinner than usual. It is such a dough that the HP does not mix well, i.e. there is not enough gluten development. I get a thicker dough with bigger holes than it did. And the quality of the crumb usually differs very much for the better. A dream is a planetary mixer, but so far it's only a dream

I have HP, this weight kneads normally

I have a Panasonic SD-257, the maximum amount of flour is 600 grams. Will not pull ...

[Kem]

Kem,

Will pull. Do not believe the instructions))). I have a Panasonic 255. I mix the dough for pies per kilo of flour in it calmly.))) The dough for Peter's chabata is more plastic than the usual bread, but not as liquid as the classics, so HP should do very well. HP mixes ordinary chabata rather poorly (too liquid). This is usually perfectly normal. Pulish is correct, go for it.

We put a saf moment - everything is correct and correct. Measure out 1/8 tsp. quite real. HP spoon with graduated marks and transparent. See it to be about half before 1/4 division. And that's all. Medical precision is not needed here. Approximately this is enough.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, I have a question - is it possible to knead the dough for the ciabatta with an ordinary mixer (not a planetary, but a stationary mixer with two squiggles for the dough)? I also want to try to reduce the amount of dough (the mixer may not be able to handle the entire volume) and still try to develop gluten better.

Try the HP dough for this (if there is, of course). It is almost like a classic bread. HP copes very well, I constantly use it, despite the presence of two planetary planets))). I think that the usual will not pull. will reel.

Will pull. Don't believe the instructions

That is, I can now load everything into the bread maker and set the Dough - Basic mode? And how much water is immediately in the dough? 150 ml, and then, if anything, add it by hand?

Try the HP dough for this (if there is, of course). It is almost like a classic bread. HP copes very well, I constantly use it, despite the presence of two planetary planets))). I think that the usual will not pull. will reel.

Yes, I tried to do it on Sunday in HP. The result - there is a photo just above (see message 166). Here is some kind of crumb that turned out to be wrong, not expressive or something

And how much water is immediately in the dough? 150 ml, and then, if anything, add it by hand?

The recipe for water says that first 90ml. And add the rest (up to 170ml) as needed. What should be the dough - Nata tried to describe.

That is, I can now load everything into the bread maker and set the Dough - Basic mode? And how much water is immediately in the dough? 150 ml, and then, if anything, add it by hand?

In HP, you just need to knead. HP kneads well.But this amount of dough will just come out of the bucket when fermented.)) I knead and transfer to a large bowl.

Yes, I tried to do it on Sunday in HP. The result - there is a photo just above (see message 166). Here is some kind of crumb that turned out to be wrong, not expressive or something

The point is most likely not HP. It may well be - in flour. She might not have enough gluten. There are no big holes. Holes are a good job of yeast (large bubbles of carbon dioxide accumulate) in tandem with strong flour (a lot of gluten - it holds these bubbles well, is elastic, stretches and does not break) and molding (do not destroy all these bubbles with your hands). Therefore, try several times and with different ingredients. Don't jump to conclusions from one sample.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, Thank you. I'll try another flour. We will not give up Dough mixer I want, but it stops me because I really rarely deal with a very liquid dough, and a place in the kitchen and a toad are stopped from buying a toy once every six months.

What can I say? The first pancake has not been canceled. No color, no taste. I stood in the oven for 20 minutes, stuck to death to the paper, although I covered it with flour. It tastes like salted plasticine. The consistency is the same plasticine.


There is such, in principle, possible, but no pleasure. There is no happiness in life ...

[Kem]

Kem,

The paper is bad. Change to the same paklan. It does not stick to good paper even without dusting it with flour. I came across it myself. Since then, I have only been buying proven ones.

It looks like it is not baked. Overly light. Should be of a pronounced nut color. Hence the putty-like crumb. It is advisable not to eat or cut bread hot. It "ripens" by cooling down. But you still got it !! I mean the texture of the crumb. Big holes are saved! You did it, next time work with the dough in the same way, but change the baking technology.

Maybe you yourself know all this. but I'll write just in case. When baking bread (simple, non-tasty), the temperature in the oven should be really hellish. 250 - excellent. Moreover, it is advisable to load the bread not when the oven has just reached this temperature, but so that it "burns out" for another 10-15 minutes with this temperature. It is good if there is a cast-iron pan or a baking stone in the oven (they are very heat-intensive and inert). It is advisable to spread the bread on a heated surface (baking sheet or stone) with quick and honest movements so that the temperature does not drop. We put everything clearly, close the oven. We take half a glass of boiling water, open the door, splash on the same cast-iron frying pan below, close). Do not splash on the stone !! It will crack. If there is no cast-iron frying pan, take a pshikalka / sprinkler with water, open it, quickly sprinkle the bread itself, the walls of the oven with water, close it.

Why all this is being done - I can write if necessary. If you understand the logic, decide for yourself how you can better implement this with your oven and improvised means.

I put the oven on to preheat, waited until the signal light went out, then turned on again, at that moment and put in the bread. The baking sheet was in the oven from the very beginning, that is, it warmed up, the water tray was also there from the very beginning, only at the bottom of the oven. I did everything quickly, almost immediately changed the temperature to 230. I held it for 10 minutes, turned the baking sheet over, another 10 minutes. The result is in the pictures. Flour from Metro, Fine Life, premium, bakery. I did the kneading in HP, I don't think it would have been different with my hands. He stuck to his hands to the last, not much, but still ...
Thank you for your kind words in support ...

[Kem]

Kem,

You don't need to keep the water pan underneath. I need steam. Immediately. Therefore, boil water on a preheated pan / baking sheet or puff. And bake to good color. It is not strictly time-bound to navigate.

You don't need to keep the water pan underneath.

Yes, I did. The tray stood for warming up. He put the bread on, splashed a mug of boiling water, closed the oven, set it to 230 degrees. Here I was not mistaken. Somewhere else, but not here.

[Kem]

Kem, just next time you should focus on the appearance of the bread. The baking times in the recipe are for guidance only. The ovens are all different. I suffered a lot with my old one. It was gas-fired, so there was a very powerful ventilation in it and the steam left in a moment. I even got used to it with an electric burn for the first time - I take out a frying pan with the rest of the water and steam comes out in my face. Well, and the old temperature obviously did not keep the one that was needed.

[Kem]

Kem, have you forgotten the salt? I somehow had this, the taste was, no taste. And I want to say that the chabatta is sooooo moody. It's like borscht, different all the time. I've been baking chabattu for several years now, my husband loves it, he doesn't eat any more bread. I can share something, although not according to Nata's recipe. But the principle is the same for all recipes.
I don't add the main yeast to the dough, it seems to me that they are superfluous there. In Italy, they definitely are not put. I want authentic bread, real. Therefore, I take flour in the same Metro-five-kilogram packs, flour for pizza, grinding "0", or somewhere else I find one. Well, it doesn’t mean premium flour !! Sometimes I do everything with this flour, sometimes just pulish. And then I take 2 grade flour into the dough (it is called general purpose).
Paper-exactly, Nata-change. In the Metro there are sooo thick rolls of paper, if necessary, I'll find a name, it costs about 600 rubles, but there are many meters. Unmatched. Niieeeeeoooo never sticks !!!
Now baking. An oven with a tray for water at a maximum temperature for 15 minutes (I have 270), quickly put a baking sheet with chabatta, a glass of boiling water in a tray, lower the temperature to 250 and 10-12 minutes. See for yourself - during this time, the dough rises as much as possible and begins to brown. Then I take out the tray with the rest of the water and reduce it to 220-230. And another 20 minutes. All. Always gigantic holes, rough ruddy crust, amazing taste of real Italian bread !!! I'm just now in Italy, I enjoy this miracle every day, that's why I'm writing this. Try it, chabatta is not the easiest bread, but, of course, everything will work out

have you forgotten the salt?

No, I haven't forgotten. I printed out the recipe through Word, put each item in front of me in order.
I'll probably try again. We love Ciabatta very much, there were such hopes ... Now I understand why she is so expensive, still, so much fuss ...
Thanks to everyone who responded and helped. I will come to you again.

[Kem]

Kem,

No, not a lot of fuss, believe me. You just have to learn. It is necessary to "grasp" the very consistency of the test, it is necessary to understand the logic and principles of working with this test. This is just a small amount of theory (we will fill you with it up to your ears))) and practice. Yes, you will probably have to spoil the flour a little, but in this matter - only experience and trial. Only your own hands.
If you knew how much I fought with a biscuit .... Half the forum laughed at me.))) I have been baking the most difficult bread for many years, I have been working with sourdough, and an elementary biscuit - tear it off and throw it away, damn it ... I made it more 10 times for sure)) According to different recipes / technologies ... Not at all. Then one time it worked out and I grabbed - as it should be. All. Now, like clockwork. It's just that when chabatta comes out right away, it's often lucky. We must try hard.

At the beginning of baking, there should be a moment of explosion of the dough. A sharp rise of the workpiece due to the rapid and strong heating. Steam allows to greatly increase the thermal conductivity of the air for this and does not immediately grab the crust. We need the crust when the full rise phase has passed. The lower the temperature and the longer the baking, the lower the bread will be, and the crust will be thick and very dry. Moisture and very high heat at the start of baking results in a thin and crispy crust and very good volume. A good chabatta is very easy to identify. Take it in your hand and if by weight it is clearly lighter than it looks (it seems that it should be much heavier) - this is the correct chabatta. This means that a large part of the "insides" is occupied by holes, ie, air.

[Nata]

Nata, I repeated the ciabatta and it turned out. Mixed in boche.The flour was not very good, but I added about 1 g of ascorbic acid (I somehow read this advice from Lyudmila from Toronto). Now I will upload a photo from my phone.

Here's today's result:


And the cutter:


Delicious, aromatic bread. And the crust .... mmmm

[Anchic]

Anchic,

A great!! Airy, inflated, with holes !! Well done!

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, thanks I am so glad that it turned out

Nat, I brought thanks!
I post:


we are very biting, albeit without holes.
flour makfa, water left in the maximum - 170, from 90 kolobok was.
when proofing, they blurred
I put a large cast-iron pan in the bottom of the oven, and splashed on it.
baked for half an hour: after 20 minutes she was pale.
for me the discovery was that such a dough by consistency can be molded.
repeat the boom unambiguously, we will compose "under".
Thank you, Suns, for science and support!

[eye]

eye,

Oh, Tanya made it to the chabatt!)))

Look, well, there are no big holes. But the sponginess is wonderful. It tastes so special, of course. Long-fermented bread is unique and does not look like plain white bread. And he is capricious, consider this. Every other time he turns out to be strong-eyed. After all, it's not a bakery in our kitchen: the conditions are so and so ...

yes, it tasted special, my mother didn’t even believe that it was made from ordinary flour. today, by the way, yeast is still audible, and more rubbery, perhaps, compared to fresh yeast. and what has blurred, is there a lot of water or has stood in the proofing?
Nat, I checked the oven, it’s not lying, I have 250 maximum, but I feel that the temperature is not enough for it, albeit with cast iron.