Starter cultures - in questions and answers

I will wait. Hope help will come

Do not despair, I am now also in the unsuccessful process of growing French. I changed the flour - it's the same. I think there may be problems with malt (but unfortunately there is no choice). Already started to grow in the first lunar phase - nothing (small bubbles, no threads, active fermentation ... Well, just a vicious circle. It's warm in the apartment (26 *), all the conditions, so to speak. Until this year, 2 matured perfectly.
Let's try together.

Hello dear Bakers! I have been gaining experience from you for a long time :) I began to master the preparation of starter cultures and ... a lot of questions arose. Tell me please. Is it necessary to bake sourdough bread in the oven or can it be done in the KhP, or is it less tasty?
I understand that you can use the starter culture only every third day, and if you want more often - get another one?
If the leaven has matured, increased 2 times, and I foolishly mixed it and left it - I thought it would rise even more and (in time it would have 5-6 hours to come ...) now it has increased quite a bit and the force is bubbling (right on eyes) - can / should I use it?
And one more thing: how long can the leaven "wait". For example, the last "feeding at 12, doubled in 2-3 hours. Can I knead the dough late in the evening and leave it to rise overnight?"
Thank you:)

I understand that you can use the starter culture only every third day, and if you want more often - get another one?

One leaven is enough.
You can bake on it every day. To do this, you need to constantly feed her, choosing the right proportions of "fresh feed" to the leaven. Then, having watched it for some time, you will know exactly what and how much is needed to get the right amount of leaven by a certain time.
Tell us about what sourdough you are talking about and I will try to offer you options.

If the sourdough is ripe, doubled, and I mixed it and left it - I thought it would rise even more and (in time it would have 5-6 hours to come ...) now it has increased quite a bit and is very bubbling (right before our eyes ) - can / should I use it?

Something tells me that it is acidifying before your eyes. I'm afraid the bread on it might be a little sour. I would not risk using it, but keep in mind that I do not see your starter and cannot taste it. Try, if it is strongly acidic, add water-flour, let it spend these 5-6 hours with benefit.

And one more thing: how long can the leaven "wait". For example, the last "feeding at 12, doubled in 2-3 hours. Can I knead the dough late in the evening and leave it to rise overnight?"

How do you feed her, that she rises in 2-3 hours?

And one more thing: how long can the leaven "wait". For example, the last "feeding at 12, doubled after 2-3 hours. Can I knead the dough late in the evening and leave it to rise overnight?"
Thank you:)

Mine also rose in 3-4 hours, though at the battery. Well, if the sourdough has risen, but there is no opportunity to bake bread, then I knead the dough, put it in a mold, cover it with a film, make holes in it and put it in the refrigerator (to the very bottom), so the dough can be in the refrigerator for up to a day, then before I take out the pastries and let them go into the oven.

Thank you very much for your answers! As I understand it, a good leaven is a great experience.
the question was about kefir from Admin - I cooked with sour kefir and whole flour. Yesterday I still risked making bread on it in order to gain experience (I suspected that it would sour, but took the risk) and you are right, it is over-acidic - the bread is not very sour, but it is sour, although it has risen very well, and you crumb - what you need.
2-3 hours to get up is about sour
Now there is Eternal leaven - today is the third day, I fed it yesterday at 12 - it rose, I interfered with it, it rose again, but during the night it did not rise a single centimeter, and liquid and bubbles peeled off on the surface - small ...
And yet, if you can ask a question: in some sourdoughs, half is removed at each feeding, but, for example, in eternal and kefir (at least the first three feedings) - not. Maybe I don't understand something and I need to clean it up in case of love

Now there is Eternal leaven - today is the third day, I fed it yesterday at 12 - it rose, I interfered with it, it rose again, but during the night it did not rise a single centimeter, and liquid and bubbles peeled off on the surface - small ...

It looks like I have and "Eternal" sour Why !!!! Didn't wait for the feeding time - I added flour-water ... Or should I throw it out? What to do? Why do they all acidify me? Immediately after feeding, she was so beautiful as in the picture ... and active - she rose with a foam cap - maybe she matured too quickly and needs to be used? Sorry to bother you with my questions, but I have PANIC

[Mashulek]

Mashulek and you write right point by point
1. How much of the original starter culture in g
2. How much water was added, water temperature
3. How much flour, what flour
4. Where is the jar, what is the air temperature in the place where the leaven is

we need to look for mistakes
Most likely it over-oxidizes due to the fact that you put a little flour on the initial mass of the leaven and at the same time the leaven is in a warm place
for the accumulation of the necessary bouquet of aroma and the number of ICD in the leaven, it needs at least 6 hours

Thank you very much for your answers! As I understand it, a good leaven is a great experience.
Not at all necessary, I have experience since October 2010. and the leaven was wonderful, just in connection with the departure I had to part with it.
2-3 hours to get up is about sour
In this way, not sour sourdough rises in me, I just put it in the heat when I am going to bake the bread.
Now there is Eternal leaven - today is the third day, I fed it yesterday at 12 - it rose, I interfered with it,
but why are you disturbing her? I only do this when I feed.

and on the surface liquid and bubbles peeled off - small ...
if the liquid has not separated, then a lot of water was in the top dressing.
And yet, if you can ask a question: in some sourdoughs, half is removed at each feeding, but, for example, in eternal and kefir (at least the first three feedings) - not. Maybe I don't understand something and I need to clean it up in case of love
When you grow the leaven, you do not need to remove anything, and when it starts to "work", you need to feed 1: 2 (1 part of the leaven, 2 parts of top dressing).
You better read the topics about leaven first, there you can find many answers to questions, but we all went through this and wrote about it.

[top grade]

Thank you for responding.
The first day 12.00: according to the recipe 100/100 whole flour / water - it seemed to me a little thin - add flour - thick sour cream. I put it on the fridge (there is somewhere around 24-25C) - everything was fine - by the evening, rare bubbles appeared.
Second day 12.00: 100/100 - to the initial consistency. Here it seemed to me that the temperature was too low (in the original recipe - 30C) and I put it in the oven - slightly preheated and off (just up to 27-30C) - the process went actively - a beautiful hat rose as in the photo in the original recipe, increased almost 2 times - interfered, as, again in the rec-those it is written, for the night - again put on the refrigerator, and in the morning the liquid exfoliated and a sour smell appeared - not to say that it smells bad ... although I I'm not sure ... I didn't wait for 12.00 - add 100/100 - now bubbles appeared on the surface again, in my opinion, it continues to sour ... nya I could be wrong. What to do with it, throw it out?
And another question - is it possible to make sourdough on wheat flour top grade, and then who writes what - I got upset and took the whole one?

You better read the topics about leaven first, there you can find many answers to questions, but we all went through this and wrote about it.

I've already read so much ... my head is spinning.Despite the abundance of information, it is sometimes very contradictory. Everyone writes from their own experience. I now need someone's specific advice, otherwise I start reading and rush from one version to another. Maybe due to lack of knowledge on the topic, I misunderstand something ...

You are not the only one, I also rushed about, and then I chose one recipe and began to do it, taking into account some points (which I found in Temko, for example: why water exfoliates) and it turned out, now I do it if necessary. Well, look, everything will work out, maybe not the first time, but it will definitely work out!

It's difficult to advise something, so I will write as it was with me. There are actually a lot of recipes, when I made my leaven, I put it next to the radiator, do not forget that the temperature in our houses is different, maybe the author of the recipe put the leaven in the oven because the temperature at home was + 18-20. I think she's acidifying because she's too hot.
The finished leaven has a sour smell, so do not throw it away, feed it, watch it.
And do not worry, in experience you will understand what and how to do, but for now study the topics about leavens, you will not regret it.
And at the same time look at the recipes for sourdoughs, there you will find the answer about flour. I raised only "eternal" on rye flour, so I can't tell you.

Thank you so much. Tell me if it rises up with a beautiful hat and falls off - as described - you can use it in baking today (third day) or watch it. And yet, what is she d. B. the taste?

I haven't tasted it.
In one of the topics I read that for bread sourdough needs to be grown for at least a week so that it becomes stronger, but you can use it, for example, in pancakes or pancakes, if you feel sorry for throwing it away. And I kept it in a small amount, that is, 1st. a spoonful of sourdough for 2 tablespoons of top dressing, and when the bread was being baked, I added more top dressing to all the available starter culture and so brought it to the volume I needed.
I added to the dough at the peak of the rise, without waiting for it to fall off.

I want to grow a sourdough, but immediately the question (maybe I do not read carefully) - everywhere they write - the first feeding: take 100 g of the mixture, add 100 g of flour, 100 g of water, etc. - so every day, and the remains of the sourdough from 1- first day, for example, or there from the second, where are they? Are they not used anymore? I started in the evening yesterday a bun made of peeled rye flour - we don't have wallpaper, it stands on the radiator, on a rag, until no gu-gu, we'll see in the evening. The husband from the KP has ate bread and asks for a simple store. We will try.

I want to grow a sourdough, but immediately the question (maybe I do not read carefully) - everywhere they write - the first feeding: take 100 g of the mixture, add 100 g of flour, 100 g of water, etc. - so every day, and the remains of the sourdough from 1- first day, for example, or there from the second, where are they? Are they not used anymore? I started in the evening yesterday a bun of peeled rye flour - we don't have any wallpaper, it stands on the radiator, on a rag, until no gu-gu, we'll see in the evening. The husband from KP has ate bread and asks for a simple store-bought one. We will try.

There should be as much water and flour in each top dressing as the leaven that is already being prepared. That is, if the starter was originally set from 100 g of flour and 100 g of water, then 100 g should be added. flour and 100g water

here I would argue ... the first time I have a sourdough 100 to 100, and then I feed 50 or a maximum of 75, otherwise it turns out a lot in three days

[matroskin_kot]

here I would argue ... the first time I have a sourdough 100 to 100, and then I feed 50 or a maximum of 75, otherwise it turns out a lot in three days

Don't knock people down

matroskin_kot not to feed the sourdough gathered, but only to grow. Let it do so during the growth period, as it is written, and the remnants - for discard, there is still a zoo of unknown animals, we do not need this * JOKINGLY *

no, well, at least kill me, but I do not understand why throw it away? I leavened "one hundred by one hundred" and feed for three days. then I can put off some of the sourdough for the next feeding, or I can put the whole jar into the dough at once. Am I using the wrong bacteria?

Are you talking about ready-made sourdough or growing it? The question was about growing.

I approach the issue of feeding in the same way: I can feed it for three days and completely run it into the dough on the third day, or I can put it aside and grow further. my hand does not rise to throw away the surplus, well, when I get bored with feeding (it’s a stove all the time, it’s a pity to throw it away) I just use quickly everything that has grown, and then I grow a new one, but I mostly grow the simplest "kefir + rye flour" I like everything precisely because of the simplicity and effectiveness of the result

[matroskin_kot]

Judging by the beginning of the recipe, matroskin_kot undertook to grow French sourdough. It has its own technology. I do not recommend breaking it.

In short, the finished starter culture is a stable symbiosis of lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast. It is established just as a result of these feedings with certain doses and at certain time intervals. You can neither reduce the mass (since there is a so-called "critical mass", less than which cannot be fed during cultivation), nor the amount of dressings (since at the initial stages of cultivation, pathogenic bacteria, pathogenic and any other , which is gradually being replaced by the only bacteria we need). After the growing cycle, when the sourdough rises by itself, it is recommended to carry out several "blank" dressings, and then put it into the bread.

This topic was discussed in great detail and often in the extensive topic about French leavens.

[Axioma]

Girls, enlighten me, please;) I have prepared a leaven of spontaneous fermentation from Axioma... I need 150g of sourdough in the dough - I take 50g. starter + 50g. water + 50g. flour - I knead and leave this thing overnight and only in the morning I already put it into the dough - right? Now in another recipe I need, for example, 150g of three times rejuvenated sourdough, here I have a complete stupor So I do as in the first case 50 + 50 + 50 - the first day, on the second day I take from the first day again 50g of sourdough + 50 + 50 and on the third day I repeat the second one again - I will have three times rejuvenated leaven - right? Now the question is - must it be kept for days, or can all this be done at a certain interval per day?
Just do not send me to read topics about leaven - I am already crazy from reading and I ask your wise advice

nut, it is not necessary to wait for the morning, you can use the leaven when you rise twice, that is, at the peak. For example, before using the leaven, I feed it and put it to the battery, so it can rise in 3 hours.
I don’t know what is three times rejuvenated sourdough, ask the author about such bread.
Why endure for days? If the sourdough is ready (that is, it works) it needs to be fed when it has risen to the maximum and begins to fall off, I feed mine 2 times a day. And they stand for days when they just do it.
Sourdough rejuvenation is when you take a minimum of sourdough, for example, 1 teaspoon and feed it with a large amount of "food", that is, 100 + 100. This procedure is recommended to be extended from time to time.

[Axioma]

Girls, enlighten me, please;) I have prepared a leaven of spontaneous fermentation from Axioma... I need 150g of sourdough in the dough - I take 50g. starter + 50g. water + 50g. flour - I knead and leave this business ...

to the maximum rise (or at least 2 times). Only if you need 150 g of sourdough in the dough, then you need to feed with a margin (50 + 80 + 80). Some will "evaporate" during the ascent, and some must be left for later feeding.

Now, in another recipe, I need, for example, 150g of three times rejuvenated sourdough, here I have a complete stupor

Now I have a stupor)) Throw a link to the recipe, please))
Well, Lyudmila has a recipe for low-acid sourdough, but why you need a rejuvenated one THREE TIMES
Natalia 1108 I answered correctly about rejuvenation, this is done to reduce the acidity of the leaven. Again, three times in a row, they feed the starter culture, which is stored in the refrigerator, to bring it to life ...
And what is meant in this case - you need to look at the recipe.

Zest here is the recipe, only I was mistaken - there you need 2 times rejuvenated
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=93149.0
And here's another recipehttps://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=93087.0 - rye sourdough is needed, but I don't have it how can I convert my sourdough to rye, what and how much should be added to get the required amount of rye

[nut]

nut, in rye they translate as you usually feed the sourdough with premium flour, but here you need to feed it with rye flour. On the second or third feeding the sourdough will be almost 100% rye. I don’t bother, I use the first sourdough on rye flour as rye.

Thank you Ritochka: flowers: Now I have taken 50g. from all my leaven +50 water +50 rye flour, mixed everything and left it until tomorrow, if it rises like a hat, then tomorrow I can use it - everything is correct

Irina, why until tomorrow? It will rise in 3-5 hours, depending on the temperature in the kitchen. It has risen twice and it can be safely put into action.

I did this for a trial. Now I have sourdoughs: swoon: I made only one third of it, by weight it is 1 kg ready and now I sit and have fun (experiments) I produce

[Margit]

Zest here is the recipe, only I was mistaken - there you need 2 times rejuvenated
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=93149.0
And here's another recipehttps://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=93087.0 - rye sourdough is needed, but I don't have it how can I convert my sourdough to rye, what and how much should be added to get the required amount of rye

I act like Margit, I'm too lazy to translate into rye for three feedings, I start up right after the first one.

I looked at the recipe ... it would be nice to have AXIOMA to clarify, but he has not appeared for a long time ...

I think that double refreshing is still required to reduce the acidity of the leaven as much as possible, so that it is practically not felt in the finished bread. But I, again, would not bother with it. My leaven is always watered-fed- put to bed, even in baked goods does not give sourness. On the contrary, I stand it longer if I want to get sourness. And for this recipe I would have refreshed it once - and that's enough.

girls, I don’t know if I’m asking, but I’ll ask, I want to bake bread according to this recipe, the recipe contains wallpaper flour, but I only have peeled flour! can I try it? still have whole grain

Good evening, members of the forum! Help, please, for three days I have been reading the topics here about how to grow sourdough and at the same time launched kefir from Admin. Today was the third day of kormesh. And now I got completely confused, apparently I read it again. Tomorrow I just take a part of it and use it in bread? Do I keep the other part and grow it? Or do you need to feed again tomorrow? My head is spinning, and tomorrow I have to do something

[Tomorrow I just take part of it and use it in bread? Do I keep the other part and grow it?]

Tomorrow I just take part of it and use it in bread? Do I keep the other part and grow it?

This is exactly what you are doing, taking into account the fact that it would be necessary to feed the leaven more in order for it to grow stronger and gain strength. In this case, part of it can be put into action or that ... thrown away ...

This is exactly what you are doing, taking into account the fact that it would be necessary to feed the leaven more in order for it to grow stronger and gain strength. In this case, part of it can be put into action or that ... thrown away ...

Thank you, that is, since she is very young, is it better to feed her tomorrow, and bake bread 6-8 hours later? I think badly in the evening

Sourdough is added to the dough at the peak of its rise, before it begins to fall off. Well, it shouldn't taste too sour. Good luck!

Sourdough is added to the dough at the peak of its rise, before it begins to fall off. Well, the taste shouldn't be too sour. Good luck!

Thank you, so I will wait for the peak

Hello everyone! This is the first time I am writing, but I have been reading the forum for a long time. I'd like to learn how to bake with sourdough.
Now I grow a lactic sour dough from curdled milk and wheat groats - attempt number 2. The first starter dough is already ready and so good by a mistake was sent to the trash bin :(
Now I have a question! Can only wheat products be baked from wheat sourdough? Is it not suitable for rye baking? I ask, since I tried to make rye pancakes (from wallpaper flour) using wheat sourdough, nothing came of it, at first they were not baked, although the dough was bubbling.I left the dough to insist (wait for a 2-fold increase) - everything was covered with mold - the experiment dragged on. I waited too long.

Hello! Please tell me how to save the leaven? She smelled strongly of vinegar - it hits right in the nose. I have it grain. Has been living for a month. I have fed her several times already. And the last time I fed it on Thursday - rye flour, brought the hard dough to a bush, baked bread on it and put it in the refrigerator. And today I get it - and I'm terrified! My leaven is gone, right?

If it has not exfoliated, mold has not grown, it is simply over-acidified. Leave the spoon and feed. It is better not to store in the refrigerator.

Hello everyone! Please tell a newbie ... all the recipes say: shift the ingredients, the next day take half, add this and that, and so on. And what about the remaining half?

until the leaven is prepared (i.e., the cooking cycle has not been completed - 4 days, 7 days, etc.) - ruthlessly throw it away. There is so much immature or unnecessary microflora and fauna that it is better to throw it away. That is why for each leaven there are several days for preparation.

until the leaven is prepared (i.e., the cooking cycle has not been completed - 4 days, 7 days, etc.) - ruthlessly throw it away. There is so much immature or unnecessary microflora and fauna that it is better to throw it away. That is why for each leaven there are several days for preparation.

Thanks for the quick response. Today I'll start experimenting

[9 o'clock]

Girls,
I am mastering my Yunold hybrid bread maker (similar to Binaton's multi-cook). On closer examination of the instructions, I discovered the "sour dough" program, that is, sourdough bread.

Total program duration 12:23, includes:
1 batch - 15 min
1 lift 9 o'clock
2 kneading 18 min
2 rise 65 min
3 rise 45
pastries 60

one of the recipes:
Rye bread 1000 g

water 400 ml
natural starter culture (optimally 15 g starter culture concentration) 150 g
spelt (wheat?) whole grain flour 250 g
whole grain rye flour 250 g
sunflower seeds 100 g
karaway, ground (turned out to be caraway - ground cumin) 1/2 tsp.
salt 1 1/2 tsp
dry yeast 7 g

=================================

What could mean (optimum concentration 15 g of starter culture)? Judging by the amount of water, the leaven mentioned in the recipe should be dry.

For the third day I have been preparing a sourdough from rye flour (with water by weight 1: 1), it seems to bubble quite well.

Your opinion: can this starter be used? Is it too much time? How much starter culture to use?

I read in Ludmila's LJ a completely revolutionary article on how to store the leaven everything changes

the main point is that it can be stored in the refrigerator for up to 2 weeks !, then re-preserve (refresh) before baking, and bake! suits me perfectly, I rarely bake with sourdough.

anyone interested - here's a reference 🔗

Blimey!!! I stopped baking with leaven. Firstly, I stopped liking it - something was not right, but I didn’t put a new one - the toad somehow crushed me to throw out the flour. This is an expensive pleasure. Even if we are talking about feeding in a quantity of 50-100 g per day. For a year, 20-30 kg accumulates. Even at current prices, it is about 90 UAH. It seems that the amount is small within a year. But! even these 90 UAH need to EARN. And it is very disappointing to throw them away.
Now I switched to ripe dough ... but Lissachka, thank you, I haven't looked in LiveJournal for a long time - that's really really - a revolution ... to go or put some leaven

must be put, just now the growing moon

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

[Rina]

Rina 9 hours - they probably mean the dough, in theory, the dough should ferment so much ... Although ... When I fed my leaven (wheat), it doubled in exactly nine hours. I didn’t understand about 15 g ... But what’s it in English?