Vacuum packing machine

[Alex_Fil]

Alex_FilYou understand why you have kept silent that there are 2 values ​​for vacuum motors, measured in pressure units, most often in bar or MPa.
1.vacuum generated (vacuum generated)
2. generated pressure
If only one parameter is mentioned, then it is 1 - the created vacuum, if two - then the added pressure is added, what you wrote about.
Now back to the question, there is a device, in the characteristics of which there is one parameter and it is equal to 0.8 bar or 0.3 bar. Which device will create the stronger vacuum?
And one more question about the "created vacuum" characteristic - have you seen somewhere where it was indicated by a negative value, for example, -0.8bar?

Pressure and rarefaction (vacuum) have the same physical essence. The difference is only in the starting point, which we take as zero. It's like a temperature scale in degrees Celsius or Kelvin.
As for the "stronger vacuum" I have already answered above.
Oh, the moderator will wake up tomorrow and clean up the topic. We shouldn't be here at midnight to callou our fingers.

[Alex_Fil]

Alex_FilWhat one physical essence? O_o
Here's an example:
TYPE ROOTS (FIST)
Static compression systems
Cam blowers (Roots type) - static compression, used as booster vacuum amplifiers (boosters) as a separate pump or as a combination with other pumps.
Three cam blowers:
- applicable for applications requiring pressure or vacuum;
- created vacuum 0.5 bar (abs)
- generated pressure 2 bar (abs);
- productivity 15 - 8 300 m3 / hour.
Lobe booster pumps:
- the model with 3 stages gives a maximum vacuum of 0.5 mbar (abs) can act as a stand-alone unit or as part of a pumping unit;
- single-stage models, can act as a vacuum pump;
- pumping units can develop a capacity of 500 - 4,000 m3 / h and a residual vacuum of 0.01 mbar (abs).

TYPE ROUTES (TOOTHED)
Static Compression System.
In machines with this principle of operation, gas compression is static, by reducing the volume of gas.
- applicable for applications requiring pressure or vacuum or pressure / vacuum at the same time;
- created vacuum up to 150 mbar (abs), productivity from 100 to 600 m3 / h;
- generated pressure up to 2.2 bar, productivity from 100 to 600 m3 / hour;
- if the model is used in combined mode (pressure / vacuum at the same time) the generated pressure up to 1.0 bar and the created vacuum 0.6 bar can be achieved simultaneously.

Where is there one physical essence between pairs:
- created vacuum 0.5 bar (abs)
- generated pressure 2 bar (abs);

and

- created vacuum up to 150 mbar (abs);
- generated pressure up to 2.2 bar;
There is a direct question - vacuum 0.8 bar and 0.3 bar, in which vessel the strongest vacuum, or in other words - in which vessel the most rarefied medium?

When we say "thirty-degree frost" - we mean -30, we do not say "minustead frost". So when measuring vacuum (rarefaction), a scalar (unsigned) value is used. If an absolute pressure scale is used, the question of sign disappears by itself, as in the Kelvin temperature scale.
Sorry, I went to bed, I consider further discussion unnecessary. We will be cleaned up soon enough.

[Alex_Fil]

Alex_Fil, I beg your pardon, but it is not applicable to science "When we say" thirty-degree frost "- we mean -30, we don't say" minusty-thirty-degree frost " or put a comma in the wrong place. "
Good night

And I like the discussion, honestly. In addition to the fundamentals of physics, which are the same everywhere, including China, it is still interesting what the Chinese had in mind (if we exclude that they are taking customers for fools)

I am never a physicist, I beg your pardon, but I always read the documentation.Therefore, it became curious what he wrote in those. characteristics for this kind of devices is one very respected German company named LA.VA

🔗
It seems to me that she is little known in Russia, but in Germany it is very popular among advanced amateur chefs, and in restaurants too. I have never seen it in regular retail.

So, when describing the degree of vacuum of their devices, they write not about pressure (Druck), but about the so-called. "pressure below atmospheric" (Unterdruck, in English they translated it as Max Vakuum Pressure), and the numbers indicate negative - for the younger model V100 -0.8 bar, for the older model V500 (weighing 32 kg) -0.97 bar. So, by itself, a larger number means a deeper vacuum ... I suspect that the Chinese also meant this, but forgot to indicate that we are talking about a pressure below atmospheric pressure. And there are enough interesting marketing moves in the kitchen area: my favorite is scales measuring in milliliters ...

Whoa! A normal person came and explained to FSE)

the numbers indicate negative - for the younger model V100 -0.8 bar, for the older model V500 (weighing 32 kg) -0.97 bar. So a larger number in itself means a deeper vacuum.

And when I wake up, I will be busy again. Mathematically, -0.97 is less than -0.8. Only these are not numbers, but numbers. It is necessary to compare in absolute value. Then yes, it all fits.

Alex_Fil, What is one physical essence? O_o

The essence is the same - the molecular and atomic structure of matter. The pressure is always there. It can be above atmospheric, below atmospheric, very, very low ... Absolute zero is not achievable. Even interstellar and intergalactic space is permeated with radiation, and quanta of electromagnetic radiation, as you know, also exert pressure on bodies.

There is a direct question - vacuum 0.8 bar and 0.3 bar, which vessel has the strongest vacuum, or in other words - which vessel has the most rarefied medium?

There is a direct answer: if the absolute pressure scale is a more rarefied medium with a pressure of 0.3 bar from absolute zero. If relative to atmospheric pressure, but the vacuum value is taken modulo, then the vacuum is stronger than 0.8 bar. After all, we call the vacuum pressure below normal atmospheric. By creating a vacuum, we lower the pressure. The more we lower, the deeper the vacuum. If we lower it by 0.8 bar relative to the norm. atm. pressure - 0.2 bar abs will remain. If we lower it by 0.3 bar, 0.7 bar abs will remain in our vessel.
Here the question is a little incorrectly asked - which vacuum is stronger, without specifying which scale to measure - by absolute or relative.
On a relative scale, negative values ​​correspond to vacuum, i.e., rarefaction, because zero here is just a reference point for either pressure exceeding normal atmospheric pressure, or rarefaction. This is perfectly visible in the photos I have posted. Moreover, the lower limit cannot be less than -1 bar or -100 kPa, since there is nowhere to lower it further - we will run into an absolute vacuum, which is physically impossible to achieve.
With the temperature, everything is clear to us ...
Which frost is tougher - eight degrees or three degrees? And if in Kelvin?

Mathematically, -0.97 is less than -0.8. Only these are not numbers, but numbers. It is necessary to compare in absolute value. Then yes, it all fits.

I'm a bore too :-)
I mean the number modulo, speaking about "the number itself"
And so you explained everything well - the keywords here are "relative" scale and "absolute"
The rest of the discussion was a bit like comparing the amount of water in half-full and half-empty glasses
But it's still cool.

And yet, if we compare the Chinese DZ-280A / 2SE and Redmond RS-M020 - what are their parameters?
On the labels, the Chinese may have 0.035 / 0.045 / 0.06, but here the thought ran through that they could write anything on the label, but the insides are the same. Redmond has a 0.8bar label.

If we compare these two models specifically - which one pumps out better ??? And how much ???

[fedex2go]

fedex2go, and I'll take a schA and torture a new topic.
The Chinese have a power of 100 watts, and the redmond has 250. The second is better.

The Chinese have a power of 100 watts, and the redmond has 250. The second is better.

I think the power refers more to the heating element, the pump itself takes a little.

I just got used to studying the characteristics of any device before buying, and was puzzled that some completely different values ​​are indicated in vacuum. Therefore, I asked a question here, especially since there are many real users of both the Chinese DZ-280A / 2SE and Redmond 020/021.

I think the most important parameter for a vacuum cleaner is how well and powerfully it can pump out air, how strongly the bag will stick to the product, so to speak ...

Corrugated bags, or smooth ones, are already secondary.

So I understand that the discussion on the characteristics remained in limbo, I could not objectively understand what 0.8Bar means for Redmond, and 0.035 / 0.045 / 0.06Mpa for Chinese. Are they negative, or positive ... etc.

And in general, the idea was expressed that anything can be written on a Chinese label, and that does not matter.

Therefore, I asked the question - which is better. If we compare specifically these two - DZ-280A / 2SE and Redmond-020 - which one pumps out better? (since we have no real characteristics for comparison).

I don't really want to buy both and experiment. Moreover, any visual comparison of pumping air from two identical packages by different devices will be subjective.

We need a way to measure pump power ...

If we compare specifically these two - DZ-280A / 2SE and Redmond-020 - which one pumps out better? (since we have no real characteristics for comparison).

Since I got into this topic, I was not too lazy, I googled a bit, in terms of those. characteristics. It is not a fact that the statements stated in the documentation will coincide with the real ones, especially since the Chinese cannot be trusted one hundred percent in this regard.
With Redmond, everything is more or less clear and precise. Everything is indicated in the instructions. Maximum rarefaction: -80 kPa (-0.8 bar).

M020


M021

For the DZ-280, most likely, this is a Sinbo replica, just some kind of noun, the table says about the vacuum capacity without negative values.

Based on my understanding, this is not an absolute pressure value, there would be another inscription, such as "pressure level abs." - vacuum performance, nevertheless, is how much the device can lower from atmospheric pressure, minus. In all respects, these devices are inferior to Redmond. In addition, the absolute pressure scale is only 20 kPa or 0.2 bar!
But to measure the real ones. parameters, you need to find a person who has these two or more vacuum degassers and measuring devices plus adaptations - hoses, fittings, etc. It is unlikely that such a person will be found here on the forum ...

Since I got into this topic, I was not too lazy, I googled a bit, in terms of those. characteristics. It is not a fact that the statements stated in the documentation will coincide with the real ones, especially since the Chinese cannot be trusted one hundred percent in this regard.

Very few people can be trusted.
Look here. -0.8 Bar sounds very good. That is, 4/5 of the air is pumped out of a container with rigid walls, right? (for soft packaging, these values ​​do not really make much sense at all, if I represent the process correctly). Have you seen pressure cookers designed for the same pressure deviation from atmospheric pressure? Nope, I came across only 0.7. At the same time, everyone is so iron.)) And here? Plain plastic box. Kind of like a mismatch, uh? And the boxes really crack in the process of diligent use. ((

If you do not touch the actual negative pressure in the soft package, then a large vacuum is also useless there - liquid from the product begins to be drawn into the vacuum apparatus.And we stop the process with a button. We no longer care what kind of vacuum there may be inside the products - we already have juices from them pouring into the vacuum chamber, akhtung!))

Pressure cookers, of course, are designed for an operating overpressure of 0.7 bar or 70 kPa, and the safety valve is designed to operate at 0.9 bar (90 kPa), moreover, it is a simple weight, weighing 90-100 grams, lying freely on the outlet rod with a hole. Aside from the more complex designs with solenoid steam relief valves, most pressure cookers simply have a mechanical weight valve.

The margin on the created vacuum never hurts, even if we don't use it to the fullest. By the way, in the table for Sinbo, which I gave, the largest vacuum is 60 kPa for the DZ-280 / 2SE model - and so it is just equipped with a protective container-capacity to protect the pump from liquid ingress when packing either liquid or wet containing moisture of products, Seals Liquids function - Yes.


Sinbo has this model only for 110 volts, the Chinese are doing a similar one, already at 220, I saw on Ali.

it is just equipped with a protective container-capacity to protect the pump from liquid ingress when packing either liquid or wet products containing moisture, the Seals Liquids - Yes function.

Yes, it is not fatal for ordinary people, well, the liquid will fit into the cuvette.) That's not the point. It's just that a wet film is less soldered this time, and soft products can noticeably deform this two. Well, as an example - try to pump the air out of ripe strawberries with your lips.

Have you seen pressure cookers designed for the same pressure deviation from atmospheric pressure? Nope, I came across only 0.7. At the same time, everyone is so iron.)) And here? Plain plastic box. Kind of like a mismatch, uh?

Pressure cookers work with superheated steam inside the appliance. The volume of the contents overheated there in the bowl is more than 5 liters, taking into account the internal bulge of the lid. Therefore, they are all made of themselves so iron. If it depressurises and tears off the lid during cooking with a pressure of 0.7 bar and a temperature of 115-117 degrees, it will not seem to anyone who will be there. And the evacuator works at room temperature and in the wrong direction, not for pumping, but for pumping out a small package volume. What happens if it is depressurized? Nothing, just zilch, it will stop pumping, everyone is safe and sound, except for the device itself if it breaks down.
No discrepancy, uh ... Or should we make our pressure cookers flimsy and plastic too? Or strong, steel vacuum equipment?

Or should you make your pressure cookers flimsy and plastic too? Or strong, steel vacuum equipment?

No no. I'm just talking about the quality of the vacuum inside.))
In a steel barrel, as you know, the vacuum looks something like this, right?


I wonder if someone's inquisitive mind dared to measure the real pressure in the bank after household packers?

[As I know]

No no. I'm just talking about the quality of the vacuum inside.))

Vacuum quality ... inside ... hmm? What criteria are you satisfied with when evaluating the quality of the vacuum?

In a steel barrel as you know, the vacuum looks something like this, right?

As I know?! .. I never claimed that I know what a vacuum looks like in a steel barrel.

I wonder if someone's inquisitive mind dared to measure the real pressure in the bank after household packers?

I don’t understand what kind of can you are talking about? .. If I wanted to, I could measure the pressure or vacuum after household packers - but here's the problem: hands, like from the shoulders, measuring instruments and fit - no problem, I will find it. There are no vacuum sealers at home. From the word at all. There are not even friends, acquaintances who own these bells and whistles. I don't need it yet. I will not buy. I went into this topic for another reason - comrade did not see pressure gauges with a negative scale, I did. He showed it. And then - it went, it started ... I thought they would clean up us for the off-top ... But the topic lives on.

I have never claimed that I know what a vacuum looks like in a steel barrel.

Everyone knows that.

What criteria are you satisfied with when evaluating the quality of the vacuum?

Well, negative pressure, of course.)) Observing how vacuum pumps look from the same air conditioner installers and how long they pump, achieving full vacuum, I am tormented by vague doubts that fool our brother with beautiful numbers on household packers with their minute to pump out a liter can.))

I don’t understand what kind of can you are talking about? .. If I wanted to, I could measure the pressure or vacuum after household packers - but here's the problem: hands, like from the shoulders, measuring instruments and fit - no problem, I will find it. There are no vacuum sealers at home. From the word at all. There are not even friends, acquaintances who own these bells and whistles

Oh, what a shame .. I have a packer - but I do not have the capabilities, you have the capabilities - but do not have a packer.
Yes, of course we are talking about the vacuum in the container at the time the pump is turned off. There is nothing to measure in the package.

Annoyance ...
gsQvdhgQwEE

Today I packed a kilogram of 100,500 meat for freezing, sooooo thank you to the one who advised my green Chinese friend how much more pleasant it is with meter packages, I don't mind them at all. It seems that the process of vacuuming the floor itself is manual, but it does not cause any difficulties, I made two seams for safety reasons.

Guys stop scientific disputes. In my opinion this forum is a bit different. It is not at all interesting to read and no use whatsoever.

Guys stop scientific disputes. In my opinion this forum is a bit different. It is not at all interesting to read and no use whatsoever.

Yes, our lord.
Would you deign to be of use to the forum and tell us something really useful here? Before closing their mouths.)
____________________
The family evacuated freshly fried chicken pieces in a slow cooker for the trip. I threw the hot one into the bags, sealed it and cooled it in water. We ate on the train for three days and still would have lived, but ended.)) We regretted that I did not cook everything like that, because I cooked several pieces directly in sealed bags (just below the boil, but not quite sous-vide), so they did not take a long time lasted, a maximum of a couple of days, and even that is not a fact, as far as I understood on the phone.

Please Lena! Finally, here's some interesting information. I just don't understand why to fry in a slow cooker. I think there is a frying pan for that. And in a multicooker it is better to cook healthy food.

I do not understand why to fry in a multicooker. I think there is a frying pan for that.

It is convenient in mulim that the splashes do not bother, and then it is convenient to extinguish.

I just don't understand why to fry in a slow cooker. I think there is a frying pan for that. And in a multicooker it is better to cook healthy food.

As I understand it, this is your useful information for the forum.
Thanks, very interesting. It was.

Thanks at least stopped the scientific dispute.

I propose to make a rating vote who has what packer!

Tell me, who has a Zepter packer, how is it in operation ?!

I propose to make a rating vote who has what packer!

I propose to make a rating vote who has what packer!

Yes, it will probably be interesting for marketers of manufacturers of household vacuumizers. Only to all of us, what is the use of this?

I do not agree. Of course, it's not bad if our forum is read by marketers. It's not bad, let them improve the products. I think everyone will be interested in the rating of packers. And those who want to buy them will be of great benefit. We need to stimulate the development of our forum. After all, packers are a very necessary thing, they very sharply raise the culture of housekeeping, and in general they are very useful to all housewives and owners.

and who has a Zepter packer

I have containers and a Zepter vacuum pistol. Gorgeous! The quality is great!
in my opinion they have everything very excellent and expensive

I have containers and a Zepter vacuum pistol. Gorgeous! The quality is great!
in my opinion they have everything very excellent and expensive

My friend has containers and a pistol, and a packer ... and she does not use ... does not understand ... and wants to sell ... surprises me ...

I have a Redmond packer with containers and a manual caso. It is very convenient to close containers with Kasoy. It's just that the culture of use increases with the packer. Like a human. Everything is neatly packed in the refrigerator and has a much longer shelf life. Same as with the dishwasher. You can wash the dishes by hand. How nice it is to get clean dishes out of the dishwasher. The quality of the sink is incomparable.

and she doesn't use

like this?
to promote a girlfriend to sell all the wealth at a cheaper price, so that unnecessary space does not take up. Buy it yourself and enjoy it.
Containers Zepterovskie can be dishwasher, and in the micra, in the oven.

I agree about the culture. I cut a rare sausage and did not crackle it right away, but put it in sachets in portions and store it. I bought a slice of ginger and not so that I used half, and the second one got moldy, but I opened the package after a couple of weeks and done well! And the freezer is just a museum now!

Yes, I also put things in order in the freezer, and now I just maintain. By the way, I use packages from the Metro with black tubes. Fine. I also use Redmond containers. Very comfortably!

And I am from the subway, and a Chinese vacuum cleaner, which eats them without a tube.

And I’m probably a crooked person. I just can't find a common language with the vacuum unit. It sucks well every other time, and even then air is formed in the bags (((I don't really know what to do ... Maybe there are some nuances? Maybe I'm not putting the package correctly? It seems that everything is branded ... but nothing (((

My friend has containers and a pistol, and a packer ... and she does not use ... does not understand ... and wants to sell ... surprises me ...

Lenka, buy yourself a mustache !! So that no one gets

And I’m probably a crooked person. I just can't find a common language with the vacuum unit. It sucks well every other time, and even then air is formed in the bags (((I don't really know what to do ... Maybe there are some nuances? Maybe I'm not putting the package correctly? It seems that everything is branded ... but nothing (((

What is your packer? The bags must be put in order for them to enter the chamber and they must be straightened. In addition, check whether the packer snaps into place.

Lenka, buy yourself a mustache !! So that no one gets

and what to do with your wealth !?

and what to do with your wealth !?

Flax, wealth is never too much, take FSE.

wealth does not happen much, take FSE.

Right!!
For all your beloved!

Right!!
For all your beloved!

Yeah, Mash, I also think so

[Masinen]

Masinen, Natalia K., sang !!!!!

My friend has containers and a pistol and a packer ...

Len I went to Avito and looked at it all from Zepter The price, however, is decent for this company
It's a shame that your friend doesn't use all of this. If it sells for you cheaper than on Avito, then take it, of course.
Moreover, the company is excellent

sang !!!!!

I looked at it all from Zepter The price is however decent for this company
It's a shame that your girlfriend doesn't use all of this. If it sells for you cheaper than on Avito, then take it, of course.

So, there is a dumka ... but I don’t know if it will give it cheaper ... she asks me to help sell ... but I’m thinking myself ... that’s why I’m asking here who has such a thing ...