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Did not work out! (detective with thriller elements)

Author Elena Zheleznyak, 🔗

When you start baking with freshly brewed sourdough, especially if these are your first attempts at baking sourdough bread, you fail. It happens, of course, that it turns out right away, but more often than not there are punctures, and there is nothing terrible in this, except, of course, disappointment. At the same time, this is an invaluable experience, which is a difficult son of mistakes, thanks to which we learn to feel the dough with our hands and eyes, to feel by touch whether it has come up, distance or a little more, what depth to make an incision and whether to make at all, and, most importantly why suddenly it did not work. I noticed that most often I write about how to make it work and at the same time I hardly write about why it might not work out. This "didn't work" usually arises simply as a question that you urgently want to get an answer to, but in order to answer it, or at least start to speculate and speculate, you need to know what happened before you got the failed bread out of the oven.
Therefore, today we will try to touch upon the topic of our bread failures and especially what should be paid attention to while working with the dough, in order to then answer ourselves - "why?" Let's start by defining the conditions of the problem - analyzing the result and what preceded it.

The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons
(pictured is dense unbaked wasp bread on a rye toast)

All imperfections, cracks in the crust, depressions and caves in the crumb, and in general, everything that falls under the category "did not work out" can be designated by the capacious phrase - "baking defects." These defects can be minor, slightly or strongly affect the taste of the bread, or they can be such that a freshly baked loaf is sent to feed pigeons. Problems can arise due to low-quality raw materials, that is, flour, water (in general, liquid) and sourdough (yeast) and due to a violation of the technological process, that is, if we ourselves did something wrong, we were mistaken. Often, having looked or tasted bread, one can already assume what the problem is, but sometimes it is not easy to independently determine the reasons, especially for beginners. At the same time, unsuccessful bread is usually a combination of various reasons, each of which somehow affected the result. To understand the problem, it is important to consider, whenever possible, everything that could affect.
If you ask someone for help in debriefing, or ask here, then it is important that you be sure to talk about the following:

· Outlined the recipe... If there is an original, then a link is desirable, if you redid it, then tell us how.
· Leaven... Tell us about your sourdough, what kind of starter you baked, how long have you been in contact with it, how it was taken out and in what conditions do you keep it (in what proportions do you feed, how often, where does it live, and does it rise to the peak and for how long)?
· Kneading... How it was kneaded, to what extent, what was the dough in the process and at the end of kneading, how was water added, etc.
· Fermentation... At what temperature and for how long did the dough ferment, in what container, what it was covered with, what it looked like at the end of fermentation, when you decided to knead it and form a blank. It is important that you know at least some approximate data regarding this stage.
· Molding... How was it molded, was there a preliminary proofing (this is when the dough is cut into pieces, rolled into balls and allowed to rest for 10 minutes, and then it is molded).
· Proofing... At what temperature were the parcels for proofing, in what or on what, what were they covered with, what they looked like at the end of the proofing, how did you understand that it was time to put the bread in the oven?
· Incisions... Did you, no? What and when, deep, not deep?
· Bakery products... In what oven did they bake, on a stone or a baking sheet, or maybe under a hood or in a cast-iron cauldron? How long did you heat it up, with or without a stone / baking tray / hood? How was the steam organized, was there any moisture at all at the beginning of baking? How long was it baked and at what temperature?
· Were there any surprises? Maybe you accidentally knocked or shook the workpiece before putting it into the oven? Did you accidentally add too cold or hot water?
· Are you confident in the quality of the raw materials used? Is the oil rancid? Has the flour spoiled, have you baked something else with yeast or sourdough from this flour, and for how long?
Finally, how did you cool the finished bread, on a wire rack, a board, under a towel, in a bag, separately or tightly packed in a row with freshly baked loaves and loaves?

In the comments to this recipe, we discussed why the bread didn't work out. To be honest, I didn't immediately imagine what exactly happened to the bread until I saw the photo.

The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons

With Anastasia's permission, I am posting it, because this is a very vivid example. The crumb has a strong donkey inside, but there is a crust, there is a strong temper at the bottom, the crumb is poorly loosened.

The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons

From the baking conditions, I only had the fact that the dough was made with rye sourdough and, it seemed, went well in the process of fernation and proofing. And this, in general, is all the data, which means there is a place for fantasies to roam. At first, I assumed that the problem was in flour or sourdough, but then, after reading about defects of this kind, I decided that, nevertheless, this was most likely a consequence of certain errors in working with the dough. At first it seemed to me that it did not fit well, but in the oven it swelled sharply, forming such a dome and quenching from below (the crust in the oven quickly became coarse, there was nowhere to go and he blew up the roof of the bread, about the same happens in pits, but this is a completely different bread ). Then she looked again: from the outside of the bread, there were no noticeable strong crust explosions (the hole in the middle of the crust does not count, it did not appear at the beginning of baking), it is clear that the crumb really has settled - that is, before that it rose, and then it was already a donkey ... This usually happens if the dough is too old, the gluten weakens by this moment, and the yeast has already done all its work and cannot support the growth of the bread with a shock dose of carbon dioxide, and the crumb settles. Usually, together with the crumb, the crust falls off, but here it remained in place and even turned brown. This is rare, but it usually happens if the workpiece has time to dry out a little during proofing. And the hardening was formed as a result of poor looseness of the dough due to falling off.

Already in the course of the conversation, I learned that the working leaven is not very active, it grows for a long time to the peak, it raises the dough weakly and it was not worth starting to bake on it at all, but it was worth working directly with the leaven, so to speak, to bring its feelings and achieve normal lifting force.

And I would also like to add.
Take pictures of your failures... Today they upset you, and tomorrow they will tell you how much you already know and know. In addition, having a picture in front of your eyes makes it much easier to understand something about the problem.
Even more, shoot the process if possible, so it will be easier to track down the error and find the reason why the bread is sour, why the pores are not the same, the crust is rough, not fluffy, not beautiful.
Remove ripe dough (whether it rose or even managed to fall), the dough after kneading (it will show what consistency it is and how it was kneaded), shoot like fermented, it will be possible to determine whether it has approached or even passed, remove at the end of the proofing... This does not need to be done constantly, the need for such careful observation will disappear by itself, but when there were attempts and questions remained, this is the best way to clarify the situation.
Good luck!

More on the topic: Author ROMA-TATIANA WORKING ON ERRORS

100updiana
Hello, I have the same problem with bread.I am just learning how to bake bread, I bake it with rye sourdough, the first 2 times I got wonderful bread, moreover, with young sourdough, then something went wrong, already the third bread falls inside ... I do everything, as in the first times , the only thing, I began to add other rye flour, whole grain (not knowing the intricacies, in appearance it seemed to me identical to the one I used earlier, peeled), can there be a reason for this?
The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons
Admin

Well, I don’t even presume to comment on it, it’s hard to understand

Let's start over. We go to the topic Whole grain flour gingerbread man. Master Class we read carefully, look at the pictures and repeat

Sourdough dough is made according to the same principle, we observe the flour-liquid balance
100updiana
Thank you! Yes, I had no idea that it was necessary to work differently with whole grain flour, and I was adding liquids to nothing, I will try to do it as written
Andy_Rus
Hello, I ask for help! Instructions for beginners studied and applied in practice. The bread turned out to be high for the whole form, beautiful and baked. And then I changed the flour and the two extreme breads did not rise as expected. The crust is moist and sticky, the upper crust is very light and seems to be torn off from the main body. Of bread:
1. Wheat-rye
Darnitskiy bread The size here is given at 750g.
PRODUCTS:
Water - 250 (300) ml
Olive oil - 2 tablespoons l.
Honey - 1 tbsp. l. or + 1st. l. water and 1 st. l. Sahara
Rye flour - 150 g.
Wheat flour - 250 (280) g.
Dry fast-acting yeast - 1.5 tsp.
Finely ground salt - 1.5 tsp
The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons

2. Plain French from a book to the stove.
The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons
The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons
The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons
Admin
For questions, we have two main topics:
Question to Admin: the bread did not work out again, what could be the reason?
Help, nothing happens with bread !!! (Ambulance)

The recipe, in general, is selected correctly. But it is possible that something slightly different actually lies in the dough. I would also like to see the photo

The height and rise of the dough are not so bad, normal.
For 400 grams of flour, you can put 1 tsp. yeast, most likely the temperature of the dough during proofing influenced the dough, it could overheat and stand.
Choose another program, preferably the main one. And watch the dough kneading so that there is no impurity.
If the flour doesn't match, change the flour.

Cut the bread when it has completely cooled to room temperature
Andy_Rus
I forcefully found how to add a photo))) There can be no mistakes in the bookmarks, everything is on a piece of paper and every step is marked. And the koloboks seem to be the same as always. I think the moisture is superfluous. Since the crumb is moist and sticky, and the torn off top crust is almost white, although the sides are fried (set the maximum frying). As I understand it, the moisture evaporates upward and prevents the crust from baking. What do you think? Is it treated with flour addition?

French with the same layout used to go up the whole form, but now only half. Of the indients, only flour has changed. Proga French bread. Darnitsky did on the Main.
Andy_Rus
French with the same layout used to go up the whole form, but now only half. Of the indients, only flour has changed. Proga French bread. Darnitsky did on the Main

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Admin
Quote: Andy_Rus

There can be no mistakes in the bookmarks, everything is on a piece of paper and each step is marked.

Maybe, oh how can it be!
The dough and bread are alive! And each time can be different! Therefore, you need to listen to the dough, what it wants, monitor the flour-liquid balance, the temperature of the dough during kneading and proofing, and much more. We read carefully the Basics of mixing, you will learn a lot of interesting things

Using a piece of paper, you can only check the amount of ingredients being pledged, so as not to forget something - and control the rest when mixing yourself.
Andy_Rus
Of course you are right, but still I ask for hints where to dig. Are these syndromes due to excess fluid?
Admin
I counted the amount of dry and liquid ingredients in your recipe, I think that there is no excess water in the recipe - provided that the recipe is written correctly.
I see only a slightly overstated amount of yeast, try putting 1 tsp.l.
From the photo I saw that the dough could stand a little, apparently the yeast affected.

And take note that now the warm weather is coming
How to check if the dough is ready for baking? Finished dough temperature
9 tips for baking bread in the summer from Manuel Cortés
Andy_Rus
Yes, the recipe has been worked out and tested more than once. I'm talking about insufficient lift, separation and non-baking of the cap, and sticky crumb after replacing the flour. Could new flour have such a dramatic effect on used recipes? The fact that the crumb is wet means that you need more flour? Let's say the other ingredients have nothing to do with it.
Admin
Quote: Andy_Rus

Yes, the recipe has been worked out and tested more than once. I'm talking about insufficient lift, separation and non-baking of the cap, and sticky crumb after replacing the flour. Could new flour have such a dramatic effect on used recipes? The fact that the crumb is wet means that you need more flour? Let's say the other ingredients have nothing to do with it.

Different flours absorb liquid differently! For dry flour, you need more liquid, for wet flour, on the contrary. Why am I writing to you that every new dough needs to be adjusted, it depends on the moisture content of the flour and the presence of other ingredients in the dough, less or more moist, such as butter, honey, kefir, cheese, cottage cheese, then everywhere ...

We read carefully here:
The easiest white bread made from wheat flour
Wheat flour gingerbread man (master class)
Absorption of liquid by various types of flour, cereals, flakes

CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"
Andy_Rus
Well thank you. Tomorrow I'll play with the kolobok again)))

I played around. In Italian bread, I additionally added 4 tablespoons of flour, until the feeling of Superfood elastic - appetizing breast of a beautiful woman. Let's see what kind of bread comes out ... Now the process is underway.
Andy_Rus
The question arose long ago. Bread maker LG HB-202CE. The program table is as follows:

The bread did not work out, baking mistakes, reasons

1. Why are the Basic and Special programs the same? Wheat and French are the same.
2. On which program to bake Wheat bread, Wheat-rye, Rye-wheat.
Admin
Remind you, for questions and debriefing we have two main topics:
Question to Admin: the bread did not work out again, what could be the reason?
Help, nothing happens with bread !!! (Ambulance)

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