Cubic
As an experiment, I decided to violate the instructions for my Panasonic and put food in the bucket in the reverse order (that is, water first). I can explain this behavior: the bread did not rise well on the timer, and there was a suspicion that during these several hours moisture penetrates to the yeast. (I even got up at night to check the kolobok, the time coincided with the feeding of my daughter ...) As a result, my bread "upside down" rose twice as much as usual !!!! (I baked a small loaf of wheat with boiled potatoes, onions and dill on the main program, flour and yeast are the same as before).
: csip: Questions to all present:
How can this result be explained? Why is it not recommended to change the order of placing food in the instructions for the stove?
fugaska
I initially put the food in this order (Kenwood recommends this way). I think that you have technologically succeeded in making the bookmark "vice versa" more correct than in the instructions, so you got an excellent result
Agnes
I am also embarrassed by putting yeast on the bottom and liquid on top. If you mix it right away, it doesn't matter, but if you put it on the timer, a big hello to the yeast. In my oven, it is meant to pour yeast at the very end, on a dry "island" of flour, so as not to get wet.
Valery Trofimov
IMHO the bookmark sequence has two meanings:
For a bearing in a bucket (each company has a special one). One is afraid of flour, the other is afraid of water.
And for the timer, so that the yeast does not start playing ahead of time.

The rest is religion and prejudice.
Andreevna
Quote: Agnessa

I am also embarrassed by putting yeast on the bottom and liquid on top. If you mix it right away, it doesn't matter, but if you put it on the timer, a big hello to the yeast. In my oven, it is meant to pour yeast at the very end, on a dry "island" of flour, so as not to get wet.
I often bake bread on the timer. I always lay it according to the instructions for Panasonic, first the yeast, and then everything else. It always turns out excellent wheat and wheat-rye bread, 100% rye bread until baked on the timer.
Admin
Quote: Agnessa

I am also embarrassed by putting yeast on the bottom and liquid on top. If you mix it right away, it doesn't matter, but if you put it on the timer, a big hello to the yeast. In my oven, it is meant to pour yeast at the very end, on a dry "island" of flour, so as not to get wet.

In the instructions for the Panasonic 255 stove, I read such a phrase (I will not give it literally) that during the kneading process, liquid flour drops can form at the bottom under the bucket, this is not scary, this is normal.
This is probably why it is proposed to first lay the flour, and then the liquid, so that everything mixes faster and so that it does not leak.
My Hitachi can bookmark in any order, nothing leaks or drips
Olga @
I'm probably off-topic (I apologize in advance), but I'm interested in the following. In the instructions for Panasonic-255 on page 8 it is written: "Place dry yeast on the bottom (so that no liquid gets on them later) ". And why? And what will happen if water does get on the yeast?
Admin
Quote: Olga @

I'm probably off-topic (I apologize in advance), but I'm interested in the following. In the instructions for Panasonic-255 on page 8 it is written: "Place dry yeast on the bottom (so that no liquid gets on them later) ". And why? And what will happen if water does get on the yeast?

If you put yeast in a cup and add water, what happens? The yeast will begin to interact with water and foam, and if you add a little sugar, then this is already a dough for yeast dough. This principle is used to manually knead the yeast dough.
According to the instructions, it may be necessary for the time being to exclude interaction with water, especially in the case of baking on a timer.
TatSU
There are proven data that if the products in the HP are put in the way that Panasonic recommends (yeast-flour-water), then the result becomes better.

Here's a quote:
"But practically in Delongy 125, if you put the ingredients on the recommendation of Panasonic (yeast-flour-water), traditional bread according to program 1 is definitely BETTER !!! (higher, more airy. 1 kg comes out of the mold)
The benchmark test was performed TWICE. "

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=1445.375 - message 376, both participants of the experiment are visible here

It seems to be checked not only on De Longy.

Friends-bakers who have the opportunity to check this order of bookmarks on their HP, despite the fact that the manufacturer of your HP recommends another - please share - I think it will be a very useful experience.

An especially interesting option is when a delayed start is made - it has already been verified by individual bakers that water does not leak for yeast - but I would like to collect statistically reliable data

participants in the experiment:

Not Panasonic - tried the Panasonic bookmarking method

savela, Delongy 125 - definitely BETTER !!! (higher, more airy. 1 kg comes out of the mold) - traditional bread according to program 1

Pakat, Breadman TR2500BC - I confirm the bread is getting better, airier and kind of tastier

qween, Kenwood BM-350 - no difference (verified recipe - Darnitsky from fugaska with some verified changes)

Giant Clatronic BBA-2866 - did not notice the difference
--------------------
Pansonik - tried the reverse order of bookmarks

Cubic, Panasonic - I tried a non-Panasonic bookmarking order - As a result, my bread "upside down" rose twice as much as usual !!!! (I baked a small loaf of wheat with boiled potatoes, onions and dill on the main program, flour and yeast are the same as before).

Celestina, Panasonic - did not notice the difference

Ellka, Pansonik - I didn't notice the difference, but it's easier for her not to be Panasonic
Admin

You at least named the experimenters, otherwise you checked everything incognito.

If you learn how to properly track the bun and measure products in grams and milliliters, then trust experienced bakers (not only me), you will put all the products in the oven by eye and in any order.

All in good time - yours will come, learn
Elena Bo
TatSU, what other experiences do you need if all Panasonic owners lay products in the way that Panasonic recommends. And with a delayed start too. Nothing is leaking.
TatSU
Quote: Elena Bo

TatSU, what other experiences do you need if all Panasonic owners lay products in the way that Panasonic recommends. And with a delayed start too. Nothing is leaking.

Dear Elena Bo, here on the forum it is repeatedly mentioned that the bookmark should be done as YOUR HP manufacturer advises - different manufacturers have a slightly different bookmarking procedure, isn't it?

My question did not concern the owners of HP Panasonic at all, but quite the opposite. The request to check concerns the owners of those CPs whose manufacturer recommends a different order of bookmarking.

Following the link in the first message, I mentioned that De Logney and another oven really bake better than the bookmark recommended by their manufacturer.

But I would like to get not two results, but more.
Agree that "two is not a bunch"

Only respect and respect for Panasonic if the order of bookmarking recommended by it makes baking better in other CPs
TatSU
Quote: Admin

You at least named the experimenters, otherwise you checked everything incognito.

In the given link of the first post of this topic, message 376 - there are all the names and experiments
So far there are 2 experiments - both successful
Lika
Quote: TatSU

But I would like to get not two results, but more.
Agree that "two is not a bunch"
What is the point of this experiment?
Elena Bo
If the owners of Panasonic, with a delayed start, do not leak water to the yeast, then why should it leak from the owners of other bread machines? The bucket is the bucket. Flour and water too.
You just need to carefully pour the water
Mashenka
Quote: Lika

What is the point of this experiment?
I dare to suggest, probably, to get a better bread despite the recommendation of the product bookmark by the manufacturer.
Here I have moulinex, a 1kg loaf does not come out of the bucket, I know that Tatsu is also an adherent of moulinex.
Although I made water-flour-yeast, the bread still turned out to be the limit of my dreams - lush! although he did not get out of the bucket and even slightly opal from one edge.

Maybe when I'll try to do the opposite ... but for now it's scary at first
Admin

"Friends-bakers who have the opportunity to check this order of bookmarks on their HP, despite the fact that the manufacturer of your HP recommends a different one - please share - I think it will be a very useful experience."

I have an old Hitachi 10 years old. This fact alone speaks of how long I stood beside her, how much unsuccessful bread was thrown away and fed.
Sorry, then there was no computer and the Bread Maker forum, everything had to be done by touch, with your own mind, thoughts, pens, experiments. The result of my own experiment with a bread maker is a photo of bread recipes on the site, although this is a small fraction of what is baked at home. Now there are practically no punctures with baking. And if it does, then I begin to analyze why.
How many times I say to those who start baking - start your own notebook and write down in it with each baking, what and how much you put in and what you got, and write down the result. So learn how to bake, this is experimentation.
And you urge others to experiment, but look from the outside, and then again ask questions why it does not work, and again call someone to experiment.
You need to experiment on your own stove, stand for hours near it, listen to it, read other information from time to time, for example, about the interaction of flour, water and other products with each other.
In my instructions, the following order of laying is written: water, all dry ingredients, dry yeast. This procedure has not been observed by me for a long time, since in each specific case its own, worked out for years in experiments, is already applied.
The result is in my breads on the site.

That's all the experiments.

Here is information from my instructions for the bread maker, as one of the reasons for bad bread.
GREAT ALTITUDE ABOVE SEA LEVEL
Sometimes for making bread by hand or with the help of a bakery, it is necessary to make corrections for high terrain elevation. As the height increases, the time required for the yeast to ferment decreases and the dough may be too saggy. The result is a low and dense bread that has a sagging or bulging top. Also, low humidity in some high altitude areas can cause the bread to rise slightly. Below are the changes to consider when using a bakery at an altitude of 900-2200 meters. Start with the smallest correction values ​​and increase as needed. Gluten can also be added to increase the softness and texture of the dough. Gluten can be purchased at health food stores; Add the required amount of gluten according to the manufacturer's instructions.
Reduce yeast: 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon
spoons.
Reduce the amount of sugar: 1 to 3 teaspoons
spoons.
Increase the amount of liquid: 1 to 4 teaspoons
spoons.
HUMIDITY
Moisture can increase the amount of moisture in flour and other ingredients. An increase in the amount of moisture can change the ratio between flour and water.
The result is a flat or sagging top of the bread. To change the recipe according to the moisture level, increase the amount of flour by 1-4 tablespoons. Start with the smallest amount and increase as needed. As a result, a smooth, dense lump of dough forms at the end of the second batch.

P.S. If I had not spent a lot of time studying my own stove, and had not built love and relationships and understanding with it, then I think Elena Bo would not have helped me, with her smart, good advice.
Even if I now switch to Panasonic, I will have to establish contacts with her and experiment with baking, since no advice from the computer screen will have such an impact as my own experience with my stove.

TatSU
Quote: Lika

What is the point of this experiment?

The meaning of this experiment is always to check whether / how often when laying products recommended by Panasonic - when working in another HP - the result is better (not the same, not without a difference, how I put it - the bread is the same, namely BETTER) than a similar recipe when laying the products recommended by the manufacturer of this HP

I will repeat once again that two people tried it and they did better than before.

Why are you so angry?
Well I'm going to prove that Panasonic is better, his recommendations are better - and you will immediately be hostile

If it is really better, then we will recommend this procedure to everyone without exception, without any reservations about "your HP manufacturer"
If someone is already convinced of this - why not say - here is a forum - an exchange of thoughts and experience.

As I said, so far there are two such experiments - both successful. Did I say something bad?

I urge others, only because HP itself does not have it yet. I personally have nowhere to check, I am actively looking for my HP - they promise to bring it at the end of May.

One gets the feeling that it is worth saying "Panasonic" somewhere on the forum without superlative epithets, as a flock will fly in and eat it - and even without bread
Admin

“I urge others, only because the HP itself does not have it yet. I personally have nowhere to check, I am actively looking for my HP - they promise to bring it in late May.

One gets the feeling that it is worth saying "Panasonic" somewhere on the forum without superlative epithets, as a flock will fly in and eat it - and even without bread "


What are you then turn on the rest. There will be a stove and go ahead - experiment as much as you like. And you want to see everything from the screen and copy yourself, and be sure that now you will definitely succeed. It will not work until you try it with pens, and even when you try it, thousands of questions will arise.

And where is Panasonic, I have Hitachi.
Zest
TatSU
Govoryly-balakals,
The forces of that and wept
It's not about Panasonic. The fact is that without a little bit of communication with the stove, many questions lose their meaning and ground underfoot. You will start the oven, you will understand. And now ... I can only repeat the words of Elena Bo:
Quote: Elena Bo

If the owners of Panasonic, with a delayed start, do not leak water to the yeast, then why should it leak from the owners of other bread machines? The bucket is the bucket. Flour and water too.
You just need to carefully pour the water
You will bake it once, once - on the contrary, on the same recipe and compare. Why all this fuss?
TatSU
Why are you so difficult

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=1502.0

Quoting from the very first post of the above link:
"Different ovens offer different bookmarking of products: first water - then flour, or first flour - then water, make a bookmark as your instructions for the bread maker recommend, I personally did not see any fundamental differences."

If the Panasonic variant gives the result BETTER in the overwhelming majority of cases, then let's write in the recommendation as well: it has been verified that this order of bookmarks is more preferable, since ...

Let's say I have my own HP, I'll conduct an experiment, let's say a successful one.
What do you end up with? Three successful out of three in general
But this will not be reliable statistics. At least 10 results.
Again, if anyone is interested to try it.

Why to learn about "change HP or not", about "problems with HP or not" - you can ask, but my question is puzzling?

I understand everything, both about my own experience and about the kolobok.
But there is also such an opinion: the smart learn from the mistakes of others, and the fools - from their own.


let's live in peace
TatSU
Quote: Admin


What are you then turn on the rest. There will be a stove and go ahead - experiment as much as you like. And you want to see everything from the screen and copy yourself, and be sure that now you will definitely succeed. It will not work until you try it with pens, and even when you try it, thousands of questions will arise.

And where is Panasonic, I have Hitachi.

Why don't you want to test this theory for your HP?
Admin
"I understand everything, both about my own experience and about the bun.
But there is also such an opinion: the smart learn from the mistakes of others, and the fools - from their own. "


When you stand next to your stove, then we'll talk about your mistakes and those of others, then remember what you were told here.

In the meantime, this is all one talking shop, a waste of time and words.

Success
Rustic stove
Quote: TatSU


Let's say I have my own HP, I'll conduct an experiment, let's say a successful one.
What do you end up with? Three successful out of three in general
But this will not be reliable statistics. At least 10 results.
Again, if anyone is interested to try it.

TatSU,
and your goal is to bake bread or to collect "reliable statistical data"))))? "Three successful out of three in general" is something

It's a trivial question, I don't understand why it is so exciting for you.

IMHO - the topic is not worth a damn. Do as it is written in the instructions for your HP and you will be happy.
Or try both bookmark options and choose what you like best And again you will be happy.
Admin
"Why don't you want to test this theory for your HP?"


Because you carelessly read our messages.

I wrote everything above.
Boo Boo
What a man swooped down on. Who cares will try and unsubscribe. I would also try, but I have Panasonic. And by the way, I already had the idea to try the other way around.
TatSU
Among the answers Admin did not find a single type: I will not try because ...

Personally, I saw three possible interpretations of the response by analyzing the messages:

- I will not try, because my bread suits me - the order of the bookmark according to the recipe of my HP

- I will not try, because I put it in a different order - the result is the same

- I will not try, because I do not remember in what order, what I put - the result is the same

When you find that in a tried-and-true recipe, some change leads to amazingly great results, doesn't that matter?

When the same proven recipe can be made even better by simple manipulation - isn't that important?

If you have not read carefully, then YES - I want to collect statistics. YES, at the moment I'm more interested in the ratio:
the number of people who tried the order of Panasonic bookmarks / the number of those who saw that the result is BETTER

While the ratio is 2/2
Qween
For curiosity, I changed the order of the bookmarks. The recipe is proven.
After posting on the forum, I expected more, but there is no difference. I don't think the order of the bookmark is important. There are more important points.
Elena Bo
BooBoo, you better try it with a rye stirrer. I tried it after Uncle Sam's experiment. Wonderful but loud
TatSU
Quote: qween

For curiosity, I changed the order of the bookmarks. The recipe is proven.
After posting on the forum, I expected more, but there is no difference. I don't think the order of the bookmark is important. There are more important points.

Wasn't it regular bread on the main program?
Admin

TatSU, do not conjecture for me what I did not say, and draw conclusions for me that I did not draw.
This is called "inattentively read", and heard only what they themselves wanted to hear.
How can you give advice to which you appeal if you do not want to listen, and even misinterpret the text of others. Don't do that.
Qween
Wasn't it regular bread on the main program?

It was Darnitsky from fugaskabut with my changes.
TatSU
Quote: Admin

TatSU, do not conjecture for me what I did not say, and draw conclusions for me that I did not draw.
This is called "inattentively read", and heard only what they themselves wanted to hear.
How can you give advice to which you appeal if you do not want to listen, and even misinterpret the text of others. Don't do that.

Well, answer the question explicitly so that no one has to speculate.

So far, your posts had this answer:
"In my instructions, the following order is written: water, all dry ingredients, dry yeast.This procedure has not been observed by me for a long time, since in each specific case its own, worked out for years in experiments, is already applied.
The result is in my breads on the site. "

Which order you use to bake regular bread on the main program - not a word. Recommended by your HP or your proven one, but not the same as that of Panasonic?

I dare to draw your attention to the fact that the first two participants in the experiment reported the result on ordinary bread on the main program - I can also accuse you of inattention
Celestine
Quote: BooBoo

And by the way, I already had the idea to try the other way around.

I tried (when I started baking with pressed yeast) I didn't notice the difference ... although the classic method is a slide of flour and liquid is added to it. I don't care what and where the bookmark is, as long as the bread turns out, and the model manufacturer knows better, let him think
TatSU
Quote: Celestine

I tried (when I started baking with pressed yeast) I didn't notice the difference ... although the classic method is a slide of flour and liquid is added to it. I don't care what and where the bookmark is, as long as the bread turns out, and the model manufacturer knows better, let him think

What kind of stove do you have? And what recipe did you try "vice versa"?

"although the classic method is a slide of flour and liquid is added to it"
That is, your HP recommends just the order as in Panasonic.
Rustic stove
Quote: TatSU

What order you use to bake regular bread on the main program - not a word. Recommended by your HP or your proven one, but not the same as that of Panasonic?

TatSU,
I highly recommend that you, while waiting for HP, read not only the topic you created, but also other forum topics.

In a thread that is recommended for all beginners to help them avoid the most common mistakes, Admin writes about baking plain white bread:

Quote: Admin

... Now let's put the products in the bucket in the order and quantity in which they are named. I do this: first I pour water, then I pour flour, on top of the flour with a spoon I make several indentations in the corners of the bucket, into which I put yeast, salt, sugar, vegetable oil, so that they do not come into contact with each other and do not begin to interact until the moment of kneading with each other ahead of time.
Well, there is further about the modes, etc. ...
And if you demonstrate a deeply scientific approach to the discussed topic - type in the search on the forum "bookmark order", you will see what has already been written about this most important question for you
TatSU
Rustic stove, thanks for finding this message. It shows that Admin uses the bookmarking option recommended by his HP (or found on his own) when bookmarking - not Panasonic.

But this answer does not apply to my main question.
I am not asking for discussions - everything is already clear.

I would really like to see unambiguous answers, such as: my oven is like this (not Panasonic), the recommended order for the main bread for the main program is this (water, flour, yeast), I tried the order of Panasonic (yeast, flour, water) - the result is this: same / better / worse

As already noted to me: do not speculate for others
Therefore, I ask for accurate - not interpreted in any way - answers

If you all think the order of the bookmarks is not important, great.
But if you tried - why plant a bunch of malas, just tell

I am not persuading anyone to conduct this experiment. I only ask those who have tried to answer
TatSU
Quote: Rustic stove

And if you demonstrate a deeply scientific approach to the discussed topic - type in the search on the forum "bookmark order", you will see what has already been written about this most important question for you

I searched, as you advise - I found one suitable message (put it in the first message of the topic) - all other messages found by the search: follow the order recommended by your HP, avoid contact of the yeast with water before kneading (for yeast that goes into flour), if the yeast is levure, then dissolve in water and use as water.

I'm not trying to speculate on the topic - I'm trying to get clear answers to a simple question - clear answers are still small.

If the topic does not interest you - do not write - and there will be less gossip
Ellka
I have a Panasonic, I also tried flour-water (according to the instructions) and vice versa water-flour ... I tried it on plain white and on rye ... THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE ...
Now I do it only on the "not according to instructions" tab, that is, water-flour, since this does not affect the quality, but technically it is much easier ...
As Admin rightly noted this conversation is "not about anything", everyone has different tastes, and the concept of splendor too ....
We also teach in elementary school that the amount does not change from a change of places!! IMHO
Zest
, in, trees, a conversation from the series, which is tastier - watermelon or pork cartilage?

Quote: TatSU

YES - I want to collect statistics. YES, at the moment I'm more interested in the ratio:
the number of people who tried the order of Panasonic bookmarks / the number of those who saw that the result is BETTER

What is BEST? I do not equate lush and better, because I love denser bread, this time. The site has a lot of recipes with a sea of ​​thanks and praise, which, despite this, did not take root in my home, but this does not mean that they are bad, these are two. Even if the largest majority tell me that it is BETTER this way, but this does not match my personal idea of ​​it, then I will do it my own way, that's three.
And no one for you will decide for you which product bookmark is most suitable for you and your personal taste. That is why no one will undertake to say: "Do not put food in the order recommended by your bread maker, but do as Panasonic said"
Get a stove and clarify this issue specifically for yourself.
Giant
It seems to me that there will definitely not be much difference whether yeast, flour, and then liquids are laid first, or vice versa. And there is no need to expect that with any method the result will be much better. Stove manufacturers were not born yesterday either, and they tried all these methods when programming stoves. It seems to me that the basic rule must be observed: yeast should not come into contact with the liquid ahead of time (we are talking about dry yeast).
I tried several times to change the order to the opposite, "Panasonic", I thought that the scapula would raise less flour dust at the very beginning of the batch - nothing like that, the flour quickly protruded from the water and rushed upward like geysers. Of course, I exaggerated, but the desire to close the bucket with a sheet of paper and I arose.
And as for two cases of a clear improvement in the quality of bread, even with the same method of laying the bread, I can get a little different bread. Therefore, this is not an indicator.
Celestine
Quote: TatSU

What kind of stove do you have? And what recipe did you try "vice versa"?

"although the classic method is a slide of flour and liquid is added to it"
That is, your HP recommends just the order as in Panasonic.

I have a Panasonic (as far as I managed to notice, only this "stove recommends" this is the order of the bookmark)
I tried different recipes (and the cake was so baked with rye), etc. I didn’t know how fresh yeast would behave. They behaved great, so I returned to the usual (for my stove) bookmark of products.
To be honest, the topic is a little incomprehensible ... They write to you that they don't notice the difference, and you are still trying to figure out something ... just wondering what else ...
TatSU
Quote: Celestine

To be honest, the topic is a little incomprehensible ... They write to you that they don't notice the difference, and you are still trying to figure out something ... just wondering what else ...

They just write that they noticed the difference (first post) - that's why I asked.
TatSU
So, although the number of bakers who have tried both options for bookmarking is far from what was desired (the limit of my dreams is 10 on both sides - the limits grow with each post) - it is already possible to summarize.

The experiment conducted by the two participants from the first post can be considered a coincidence.

Experienced masters urge you to try in each recipe for every one (you can use someone else's experience) and then follow the option that showed the result that you liked more (not the fact that others will like this result, since the tastes are different)

The main thing that should be adhered to when laying down: do not allow early contact of yeast with water, as well as yeast with salt (as the manufacturer of each CP advises) - unless your own experience (or the experience of other people) has shown otherwise.

The whole topic is closed, although not fully disclosed as I saw it at first.

All success in baking
TatSU
Quote: Ellka

We also taught in elementary school that the amount does not change from a change of places!! IMHO

The topic is already closed, but let me make one more remark.
Cooking is not math. And here, from a change in the places of the terms, the result can change very much.

A simple example - why is it recommended in some recipes to separate the yolks from the whites, if then in the process both the yolks and the whites are in the same form?
It would seem - all the same, as a result, a whole egg will turn out.

On the other hand, in HP, after the bookmark, a lot of small things still start ...
In general, everything else will be just a repetition of the above in this thread

LOSS
Today I came to Moscow for a couple of days on a visit, and immediately went to the All-Russian Exhibition Center in the House of Bread. The saleswoman asked what kind of oven I had and when she learned that Panasonic 255, she advised me never to start laying with flour, but always with water. She said that because of this, their second furnace had already gone to be repaired. So I will probably start with water.
Natalja Ar
Although I’m not a Panasonic, but a Tefal, but according to the recipe book, step by step in each recipe, first there is liquid and then only flour, and then before the flour there is always salt, sugar and butter. And the very last yeast.
Elena Bo
Girls, as a rule, all lay food, as the manufacturer advises. But no one will forbid you to lay the opposite. Let's not start an argument again about who pays how and what happens. The bread maker, well, cannot break in any way due to this or that bookmark of products.
Gennadii
Quote: Elena Bo

The bread maker, well, cannot break in any way due to this or that bookmark of products.

- Yes, but not quite. Panas - withstands time to equalize the temperatures of the ingredients - other c / p - no. Moreover, if you pour water to the bottom, it will press on the oil seal all this time, and if you pour flour down and water on it, the water will press on the flour - and this is true only for Panasonic - it does not matter for other cotton products. Developers x / p Panasonic probably have heads.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you pour water to the bottom of a Panasonic bucket, the oil seal will fail more often!
Elena Bo
Quote: Gennadii

If you pour water to the bottom of a Panasonic bucket, the oil seal will fail more often!
At the same time, the bucket will come out of standing, but not the bread maker itself. Electronics has nothing to do with it.

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