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French baguette on "old dough" / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

French baguette on "old dough" / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

Category: Yeast bread
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

Ingredients

Pâte fermentée
Wheat flour, premium 200g.
Water 150g.
Yeast, pressed 20g.

Dough
Wheat flour, premium 300g.
Water 225g.
Salt 10g.
Flour for sprinkling handful

Cooking method

  • Most recently, I posted French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
  • French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
  • French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
  • French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
  • French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
  • French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
  • 6. Bon appetit!

The dish is designed for

4 loaves

Time for preparing:

15 - 16 hours

Iriska
I bake such baguettes very often. Only after an hour I put the dough in the refrigerator overnight. I add flax seeds to the dough. I bake in a baguette and steam.

You have very beautiful photos. Tell us about yourself. Are you interested in baking just for yourself or are you doing it professionally.
Idol32
2 Iriska

Thank you for rating!

There is nothing special to tell - not noticed, did not participate, was not involved (pah - pah - pah and knock - knock - knock). Of course I'm an amateur. Several years ago I realized that I can no longer buy bread in the store, since there is no more normal there. I had to master a new technology - bread baking. I read a lot and continue to read (mainly Tsyganova, Auerman, Bertinet, Hollywood, Reinhart). First there was HP Panasonic, but there is no limit to perfection (!) And after six months of experiments with HP I switched to the oven (photography is also another hobby).
Marus
Idol32, tried to bake baguettes according to your recipe. It turned out delicious, there was not even a photo left, but I will fix it. The dough turned out to be unusual, a bit watery (I really am not a very experienced baker yet), my baguettes stuck a little to the towel during proofing, I thought they would not rise, but no, things got better in the oven. The first stage I got six hours (a short night happened), another time I will try to increase it. Thank you very much for the recipe, I will certainly repeat it and show off the photos.
Idol32
2 Marus

With a start!

Yes, I love dough with a high moisture content. Although, of course, it is more difficult to work with him. But with a sufficient moisture content, the bread turns out to be airy with excellent crumb.

And so that the dough does not stick to the towel, you need to pour more flour on it. In order for the loaves to keep their shape during proofing, folds should be made along the edges of the loaves (the same as dividing ones) and support them with something. It will turn out something like this: support - fold - workpiece - fold - workpiece - fold - ... - fold - support

Good luck and look forward to photos!
Idol32
2 Marus

I forgot to add: use a rough cloth for proofing. The rougher it is, the less the dough will stick to it. Professional proofing fabric is either very rough canvas or very rough linen.
Marus
Idol32, thanks for the clarifications . I understood the scheme with the towel, and it seemed to be rubbed with flour, but either not enough, or the texture of the linen towel was not rough enough. Nothing, I will learn
Yes, the wet dough is funny - despite the fact that you need to attach to it (learn how to take it), it is grateful - my initially clumsy baguettes, successfully dispersed, and in the oven they puffed up and became quite cute.
Idol32
2 Marus

One more nuance. I took French flour for the baguette. Perhaps her hydration (if roughly - the degree of water absorption by flour) is higher than that of you. Or maybe not. If it was possible to form the loaves, then everything is possible. It is believed that the ideal flour to water ratio should be 100% to 75% or even 80%! That is, for every 100 grams of flour you need to take 75 - 80 ml of water! This is a very wet dough if you take premium flour.But for whole grains, this ratio is quite common. But in any case, it is better to rely on your own feelings.

Altusya
Good health!
Something didn't work out for me, nothing beautiful
Cuts, cat. it is necessary to do with the blade did not disperse at all practically during baking (it may have stood on the proofer).
No matter how I put it with the seam down, the baguette falls to one side and this seam (pinched they write once already): girl_haha: shows itself in all its glory.
Well, it doesn't work until golden brown. The oven is something like that.
I baked two things, well, I think with the second pair I will do this: put them under the very arch of the oven and turn them on full throttle. Yeah, in 20 minutes the baguettes are ready, but there was no blush.

Maybe you really need an oven with a top ten?
Idol32
2 Altusya

The fact that the color of the crust is light indicates that there is almost no sugar left in the dough. If you compare my photographs of a baguette on the "old" test and ordinary ones (I have such a recipe), then you can see that the latter came out much darker. This is due to the fact that during prolonged fermentation, the yeast cracked almost all the sugar both in the "old" dough and in the flour that was added later. For the color of the crust, you can add sugar (but not more than 4% of the flour mass - in such an amount, sugar will not affect the taste, you need to add sugar when the final dough is kneaded) or you can try baking a little longer.

We understand and look for differences further

1. I have an ordinary oven, heating from below and from above.
2. I bake on a stone.
3. Baking flour, I use French flour for baguettes, type 55. If I can't buy it, then I bake it on ordinary (domestic premium), the main thing is that it says that it is bakery (then it contains at least 28% gluten ). The result in French and ours is very similar.
4. Correct cuts should be done as I drew in this diagram (this is a top view of the loaf blank):

French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

- mentally divide the loaf lengthwise into three parts (gray lines).
- make cuts inside the middle part as marked with red lines on the diagram.

5. Fermentation of the "old" dough
I usually put it on at 10 pm. It stands until 11 - 12 noon the next day. The temperature regime is as follows:

- from 22:00 to 23:00 - 30 - 31C I maintain the desired temperature with a special device (a regular 30W light bulb in a waterproof cartridge, bought in a Baltic online store), for high humidity I use a ladle with boiling water (the temperature can be maintained only with ladles or cups with hot water).

- from 23:00 to 9:00 - 21 - 22C, I go to bed and I don’t follow the temperature, so it’s room temperature and now the kitchen is cool enough.

- from 9:00 to 12:00 - 30 - 31C again I maintain the desired temperature and put a new ladle.

6. Pre and final proofing
Temperature range: 30 - 31C again I maintain the desired temperature and for humidity I use the same ladle with boiling water.
Idol32
2 Altusya

I forgot to write about the proofing: so that the loaves do not fall on their side during proofing, they must be supported on the sides with something (for example, a couple of cups) through the fold of the towel. The scheme is as follows (example for two baguettes): support - towel fold - dough piece - towel fold - dough piece - towel fold - support.

If baguettes fall on their side when planting on a stone / baking sheet, then you need to plant them more carefully and use coarser flour for sprinkling shovels: semolina or corn, for example. Then the workpieces will more readily roll off the shovel.
Altusya
Oh, thanks for that answer

The dachshund appears ...
I already guessed about sugar today. The dough also fermented from the evening hours from 10 to 10-11 in the morning. I don't keep track of the temperature here, what is in the kitchen, this is.
The oven is full of holes, old, no top ten
I bake on a stone, but on top I have a baguette holder (I also put it in baguette holders, covering it with a towel)
Haaa, here with flour, just written bakery. But there is still a general purpose
Well, with cuts, it seems not difficult, and so, I think so, I just stood there and got windy

The loaves do not collapse during proofing, they collapse when baked. I carefully put the seam down, well ...

Something like that
Idol32
2 Altusya

Well, it means that for the crust it is best to add sugar, but in order not to fall on its side, it is necessary to spread it on a towel. Then the workpieces will not be so round in cross section. And it is worth using semolino-like flour for sprinkling the shovel, so that the loaves roll better on the stone. I think that all this should help.

And what is this baguette holder that stands on top when baking? Is this a baking sheet?
Altusya
Thanks for the answer.
I don't have any shovels. And the baguette holder is yes, such a baking sheet. I ordered it here at Lily's warehouse. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=31266.0

Well, in principle, I understand that everything is fine with me, just work out the shape of the baguette and adapt to the baguette holder.
Maybe I'm doing wrong, of course, that I stand on it. In general experience, experience, experience.
Idol32
Clear. The simplest, but no less convenient, shovel can be made from thin plywood. Cut out a rectangle slightly smaller than the stone. Sand the edges to keep them smooth. And that's it, the shovel is ready.

Good luck!
I-na
I want to say thank you so much for the recipe! Everything turned out great!
It stood for 13 hours at room temperature. At first there were doubts about such a long standing, and the dough seemed unusually thin, but the result is great. She did not make long loaves, and she did not dare to cut ... I smeared the first two with an egg for ruddy, the rest I baked like that. I must say for those that did not lubricate, the crust turned out to be more crispy.
The crumb is soft, airy, I hope you can see it in the photo. There is a subtle sourness on the taste, which I love very much in bread.
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
Idol32
Congratulations - great result!

The dough is actually more moist than usual, but it only adds airiness. I now bake using dough with only 80% moisture and sometimes more (81-82). Myakish is just wonderful. I'll be back home after the holidays and post a photo.

OJGG
Recipe: French baguette on "OLD TEST", but where is the old dough here? Looks like just a dough?
Idol32
Opara (she pulish) differs from mature dough (it is sour, fermented or old dough) water content and fermentation time. Dough, in fact, is a batter, ripe dough - exactly the same as normal. In addition, real dough cannot be overexposed. Its fermentation time is from 3 to 5 hours and it should be used immediately, as soon as it rises with a dome and sags a little. Matured dough can be fermented for 4 to 12 hours.

For information: there is another way of long-term fermentation of the dough (my favorite) is biga... There is even less water in it and the fermentation time is 1 day.
Admin
I will add on my own. Old, mature, sour dough can be stored in the refrigerator for many days, nothing will come of it. During this time, the dough will still ferment, it has the taste and smell of sourdough, the dough on it turns out to be gorgeous and the bread has a slightly sourdough taste.

This was done in the old days, when they collected the remnants of the dough from the dough, put it in a bowl and sprinkled it with flour and kept it until the next baking of bread.

This is how I store my old dough: in a ceramic bowl, sprinkle with a little flour

French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

And this dough turns out later

French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

Good luck! The forum has several recipe topics for this dough and bread, including mine
OJGG
It's just that the recipe is called "on the old dough", but there is no old dough in it? The dough that is first made, and it costs 12 hours, is just a dough. And the old dough is a piece from the previous kneading ... which we keep, whoever wants, and then add to the next batch ...
Admin
Here you need to start from the very recipe of Bertine, as he calls this dough and this dough kneading process.

In fact, the dough is a special (dough composition) liquid dough that should ferment for about 5-6 hours, and as soon as the dough reaches peaks and begins to fall off a little, the dough is considered ready for kneading the dough.

But what Bertine offers - you need to look at the author, then he is the AUTHOR of the recipe!
Idol32
This is not really Bertenier's recipe. He has an accelerated fermentation recipe. I changed it by adding the use of pâté fermentée.
Idol32
It seems to me not worth arguing about how to call pâté fermentée in Russian. It's just pointless. Everyone uses three concepts when talking about pre-fermentation of bread dough: poolish, biga and pâté fermentée. Of course, all this, if desired, can be called a dough, but they are very different, although their composition is very similar - flour, yeast, water and, sometimes, salt.
I-na
But in my opinion, there are still inaccuracies in the name or not. Today I baked these baguettes again, but this time with whole grain flour. The result is just great.
Iriska
I want to add my comments: I add a tablespoon of honey to the dough. I noticed that the color of the crust turns out to be very wonderful, better than with sugar. When I added sugar, the crust was much lighter.
lesla
Accept the report. I liked your recipe very much, you can feel a slight sourness of the dough. My baguettes did not want to brown too, I added another 10 minutes.

French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
Idol32
Wonderful bread turned out! And the sourness is exactly what simple yeast bread usually lacks and what those who bake sourdough bread are so proud of.

Recently I have been using biga almost everywhere, this fermentation is generally long a day - the taste is even better, more complex.
lesla
I agree, there is something to be proud of, One baguette has already been eaten! In the morning I went to the bread-box and felt such a smell that I could not resist and broke off, all goodbye, waist. Today I want to put the dough again, and tomorrow I want to make buns and roll them in garlic oil, I think you can't pull off the household by the ears
Idol32
Garlic rolls! Great! This will be a new recipe!

And about the waist, I note that these baguettes are quite a dietary product. It's not for nothing that they don't want to blush in the oven for so long - they have almost no sugar.

alexeyda
There is a mistake in the recipe, water for dough (Pâte fermentée) and dough need 250 grams!
Checked, prepared. The standard ratio for one part of water is 2 parts of flour (1: 2) (+ -5-20 grams depending on the flour), thanks to experience.

The feeling that they copied from the book without checking, since there are a lot of recipes similar to yours on the network, nowhere is there a correct ratio.
Here is a video confirmation recipe,
the difference in the recipe is only in the time of fermentation of the dough and the shape of the roll.

By the way, I made a liquid dough, the result is the same in my opinion.
Idol32
Quote: alexeyda

There is a mistake in the recipe, water for dough (Pâte fermentée) and dough need 250 grams!
Checked, prepared. The standard ratio for one part of water is 2 parts of flour (1: 2) (+ -5-20 grams, depending on the flour), thanks to experience.

The feeling that they copied from the book without checking, since there are a lot of recipes similar to yours on the network, nowhere is there a correct ratio.
Here is a video confirmation recipe,
the difference in the recipe is only in the time of fermentation of the dough and the shape of the loaf.

By the way, I made a liquid dough, the result is the same in my opinion.

The recipe has not been written off, it is a pity that you did not read the reviews of those who baked these baguettes before you so carefully.
Admin
Quote: alexeyda


The feeling that they copied from the book without checking, since there are a lot of recipes similar to yours on the network, nowhere is there a correct ratio.

And the correct ratio will never be!
Since the dough is a living organism and reacts sensitively to kneading, the quality of flour, water, and so on ... I also went through this in practice. The best teacher is experience!
Idol32
One more note, I have now revised some of my views on baking. In particular, for the preparation of the dough, and specifically for the amount of yeast. This, by the way, is noticeable in my latest recipes. So, now I take 2 grams of yeast for mature dough and another 2 - 3 grams for the final kneading of the dough. I like water when there is a lot. Somewhere here on the forum I wrote that I really love when the dough is airy with large holes, and this requires a lot of water. You can only knead such a dough by hand with a beating no more.

Good luck.
Admin
Quote: Idol32

One more note, I have now revised some of my views on baking.

I totally agree with this!

And this comes with an understanding of what DOUGH is, not just by copying the kneading dough in the recipe, but exactly when you achieve the result through analysis, observation in order to achieve your personal result and the quality of the dough and finished bread!

There are such masters of bread business on the forum, with personal results, thank you all for your creativity!

MariS
Quote: Idol32

For information: there is another way of long-term fermentation of the dough (my favorite) is biga... There is even less water in it and the fermentation time is 1 day.

Idol32, And is pressed yeast in your recipes strict adherence to the recipe or do you basically not use dry yeast? Thank you.
Idol32
No, not strict. Quite often, on the contrary, active or fast-acting yeast is used in original recipes. It seems to me that the pressed ones seem to be more natural, or something. But if objectively, then this is a matter of taste.
MariS
Baked !!! It turned out, it seems ... (The photo is postponed until the weekend - the flash drive cannot be read by the country computer).
Divided the dough into 3 loaves (one of them did not want to grow at first). First I baked 2 pieces. - they lay on a baking sheet and left no room for the third. Then she baked the 3rd ... fortunately they bake quickly !!!
Thank you Idol32 for the delicious bread!
It is interesting now to try this recipe with whole grain flour.
Idol32
Congratulations! But these recipes are quite simple and reliable, what happened to the third loaf?
MariS
Quote: Idol32

Congratulations! But these recipes are quite simple and reliable, what happened to the third loaf?

The third one is also baked, thank God !!! It's just that when forming loaves, this one turned out to be more elongated, therefore its increased volumes were not as noticeable during proofing as in the other two.
Delicious baguettes - thanks again, Idol32!
Irina F
Well, it's just a bomb! The baguettes turned out to be a miracle, how good they are !!! Idol32 , the recipe is gorgeous !!!
I really like working with such a wet dough !!! I just fell in love with him!
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)
Only the cuts are not working! I ask for help, where to buy a tool?
Idol32
Good baguettes!

In order for the cut to disperse well, it is necessary that the crust dries a little as a result of the final proofing. That is, do not cover the cookers (or put them in a bag), for example, with plastic wrap during this proving, but simply cover them with a towel. As a result of these manipulations, the crust of the blanks will not be as moist and elastic as the middle of the loaf, the bread will grow in the oven and the crust, which has lost its elasticity, is almost nonexistent and the cuts will disperse very, very well!

It is best to make incisions (in my opinion) with a regular blade. We take it by the corner and cut it with another corner. We cut quickly. To prevent the dough from sticking to the blade, it can be moistened in a glass of water. You can buy an instrument, for example, in a shop from R. Bertinier - 🔗 (see the thing called lame).
Irina F
Thank you so much! I will consider all the tips
As for LAME, I would like to find something here, we have something (otherwise I can't (I can't and don't understand anything from foreign sites))
Idol32
Ask your husband to do it. the blade holder is not difficult at all!
PapAnin
We take 2 Chinese wooden chopsticks, put them together, tie tightly on one end, but not on the other.
Insert the blade as close as possible to the connected edge. We clamp the free ends by hand, the blade is clamped.
They made cuts, the blade was calmly pulled out, removed away, the sticks were anywhere.
This I just came up with. Should work. I'll check it at home. Only there are no such blades, you have to buy it somewhere.
Irina F
Ooo friends, thanks for the advice! But, my husband is busy all the time (well, very, very), he is hardly my assistant in this matter
Okay, I'll ask someone to bring it from somewhere ... or maybe I'll go somewhere and look for it ... or I'll master foreign online stores
Idol32
I ordering blades and other small mechanization from Bertinier in the store. Everything comes without problems in 2-3 months. You can open this store through a Google translator or ask a colleague who speaks basic English at work to help you complete your purchase.
Idol32
How did I forget !!!! You can use a construction knife !!! Such a thing with replaceable retractable blades (very, very sharp). Moreover, I myself saw how bread was cut with such knives in one bakery !!!
Idol32
Now I read the recipe again and was horrified - there was clearly an erroneous amount of yeast in it. It is necessary to take at least two times less.Now I have no way to fix the topic header (you can see too much time has passed), so those who will bake these baguettes take 10g of yeast or even better 3 grams!!
PapAnin
Quote: Idol32

How did I forget !!!! You can use a construction knife !!!
Exactly!
Only not construction, but clerical. It is smaller and has a thinner blade.
Great idea!
Quote: Irina F

But, my husband is busy all the time (well, very, very), he is hardly my assistant in this matter

I think you can tie two sticks yourself.
Better, indeed, to use a clerical paper knife.
French baguette on old dough / Baguette de pate fermentee (oven)

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